Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The AAP system is set up for failure because of that reason. It is school dependent..

Sorry - AAP (Full-time (level IV) at least) isn't school dependent. It's all this lower part time, Advanced Math, unofficial added to AAP classroom actions. Because we live in a high money, largely entitled local area, and there's still not enough money in the public school system to tailor to every need (legally required or not), students/parents will fight for and complain about every little thing.

All the quasi-accomodations seem to be what's causing the problems, but in reality it’s the lack of a lower level/troublemakers class to segregate the below grade level learners. Teachers don't have sufficient resources to plan for both behind students, on grade students, and those above grade that didnt make it into AAP. Get the children who need more hands-on help out of the classroom and it frees up the teacher to apply their focus more directly. I came from Ohio, so not sure how FCPS used to handle this, but 20+ years
ago, we lumped them all into special ed and general ed was a productive classroom again.

You can blame Dr. Reid for the first part, if she even is a doctor. There absolutely is enough money, it’s just being wasted on other stuff like yondr pouches and bodyguards. The troublemakers shouldn’t be clumped up in general; they should be in the special needs classroom,. I do agree with you on that part. General Ed can be made more efficient and function like AAP if only those troublemakers got lost.

Committee palcement is a County thing but how the program is run is a school thing. Center schools run classrooms differently. Some allow principal placed students, some don't. Some allow math push in, some don't. What is taught in the classroom is different based ont he students that they have. A Title 1 Center school is likely adjusting the curriculum for its students while a high SES Center school is adjusting its curriculum for different reasons.

LLIV is run very differently, so committee placed kids who stay at their base schools will have different experiences.

I would guess that committee placement is different for the different Centers. We know that the scores for in-pool are normed by the local school, want to bet that there are different scores that are considered for a Title 1 Center then a high SES Center?

I don't have a problem with classrooms and curriculum meeting the needs of the students found in them, I am fine with that. I think that is what schools should do. I do think that every school should be required to have a class for kids in advanced math. I don't think it is acceptable to say that the Center LIV class is full so kids needing advanced math don't get advanced math. Schools can place kids needing advanced math into one class so that those kids can get advanced math. The various services have not been uniformly conducted and that is problematic.

I would love for there to be clearly identified test scores for admission into LIV, I am fine with those being locally normalized. Raise the bar so that the top 5% of the kids by test scores are automatically placed in LIV/full time serivces. The kids from 6%-10% are in-pool. Then allow parent referal. The committee can fill classes from there.

Advanced math is guarenteed for any child with a MAP score in the 95th percentile. Schools either find room in the LIV class, LLIV class, or create an advanced math class.

Anonymous wrote:The AAP system is set up for failure because of that reason. It is school dependent..

Sorry - AAP (Full-time (level IV) at least) isn't school dependent. It's all this lower part time, Advanced Math, unofficial added to AAP classroom actions. Because we live in a high money, largely entitled local area, and there's still not enough money in the public school system to tailor to every need (legally required or not), students/parents will fight for and complain about every little thing.

All the quasi-accomodations seem to be what's causing the problems, but in reality its the lack of a lower level/troublemakers class to segregate the below grade level learners. Teachers don't have sufficient resources to plan for both behind students, on grade students, and those above grade that didnt make it into AAP. Get the children who need more hands-on help out of the classroom and it frees up the teacher to apply their focus more directly. I came from Ohio, so not sure how FCPS used to handle this, but 20+ years ago, we lumped them all into special ed and general ed was a productive classroom again.

The AAP system is set up for failure because of that reason. It is school dependent..

Anonymous wrote:So many outdated people here who probably have college graduates. We're not doing numbered levels anymore, sweeties!!!

Access to Rigor: Grades K-6 – All students receive talent development lessons with critical and creative thinking strategies and AAP curriculum lessons. This is a normal classroom and sometimes the AART pushes in for a stupid Jacob's ladder lesson

Subject-Specific Services: Grades K-6 – Identified students receive AAP curriculum lessons in the general education setting in areas of academic strength. This is extra math worksheets

Part-Time Services: Grades 3-6 – Identified students receive AAP curriculum lessons in more than one academic content area. The Advanced Academic Resource Teacher (AART) leads these lessons. Programming has increased depth and complexity in several content areas.This is actually wrong because some kids AART pull outs, but there are also kids who get advanced math where they push in to the AAP or LLIV classroom

Full-Time Services: Grades 3-8 – Identified students receive AAP curriculum lessons full-time. Programming has increased depth, complexity, and pace in all academic content areas.This is the AAP or LLIV classroom but the biggest difference is just advanced math

I know someone else posted in response to this post but I have an 8th grader in AAP. He received LII services in first and second grade. Received LIII services in third-sixth grade, we deferred LIV services, and moved into the AAP classes last year. This is a recent change, not something that happened 10 years ago. He had GBRS scores, not HOPE scores.

Subject services is a different name for LII
Part-time services is a different name for LIII
Full-Time services is a different name for LIV
Advanced math is still advanced math.

Math has always been its own track. Math is not covered in AAP services in MS, only English, Social Studies, and Science. Math was never a part of LIII services, or part-time services today, because math was covered in advanced math.

LIV, full-time services, has always included advanced math. At my kids' base school, kids who deferred LIV were guaranteed LIII and advanced math.

It is problematic that Center schools do not have an advanced math option for kids not selected for full time services, there should be an option other than pushing into the full-time classroom for math. I know kids who do just that, a friend of mine was telling me about his daughter pushing in for math.

The reality is that the services, no matter what you call them, are not that exciting. The only one that really matters is the advanced math. FCPS does not provide the services in a uniform manner across the county, it is very much school dependent.

My second child unfortunately didn’t get into AAP during elementary. We suffered though years of dumbing down the curriculum and major behavior issues in the classes. My child literally had hardly any homework and didn’t learn study skills. I told myself just wait until middle school when your child can take all honors. My child was actually afraid to take all honors because the expectations for them had been set so low over the years by the gen ed teachers. My child was one of the high achievers in gen ed that basically got ignored. Some of their assignments weren’t even looked at and they certainly weren’t given meaningful feedback on anything. Mostly I was teaching at home as a result. Fast forward to middle school - I mandated all honors and it’s going really well. Most of the losers are weeded out and the behavior is like night and day. No chair throwers, no ridiculously stupid kids, and no behavior issues so far. So I say to all those who didn’t make it in AAP - just hold on until middle school. There is light at the end of the tunnel!

Anonymous wrote:So many outdated people here who probably have college graduates. We're not doing numbered levels anymore, sweeties!!!

Access to Rigor: Grades K-6 – All students receive talent development lessons with critical and creative thinking strategies and AAP curriculum lessons. This is a normal classroom and sometimes the AART pushes in for a stupid Jacob's ladder lesson

Subject-Specific Services: Grades K-6 – Identified students receive AAP curriculum lessons in the general education setting in areas of academic strength. This is extra math worksheets

Part-Time Services: Grades 3-6 – Identified students receive AAP curriculum lessons in more than one academic content area. The Advanced Academic Resource Teacher (AART) leads these lessons. Programming has increased depth and complexity in several content areas.This is actually wrong because some kids AART pull outs, but there are also kids who get advanced math where they push in to the AAP or LLIV classroom

Full-Time Services: Grades 3-8 – Identified students receive AAP curriculum lessons full-time. Programming has increased depth, complexity, and pace in all academic content areas.This is the AAP or LLIV classroom but the biggest difference is just advanced math

The numbered system applied as recently as the 2024-2025 or 2023-2024 school year. Calm down with your proud condescension.

So many outdated people here who probably have college graduates. We're not doing numbered levels anymore, sweeties!!!

Access to Rigor: Grades K-6 – All students receive talent development lessons with critical and creative thinking strategies and AAP curriculum lessons. This is a normal classroom and sometimes the AART pushes in for a stupid Jacob's ladder lesson

Subject-Specific Services: Grades K-6 – Identified students receive AAP curriculum lessons in the general education setting in areas of academic strength. This is extra math worksheets

Part-Time Services: Grades 3-6 – Identified students receive AAP curriculum lessons in more than one academic content area. The Advanced Academic Resource Teacher (AART) leads these lessons. Programming has increased depth and complexity in several content areas.This is actually wrong because some kids AART pull outs, but there are also kids who get advanced math where they push in to the AAP or LLIV classroom

Full-Time Services: Grades 3-8 – Identified students receive AAP curriculum lessons full-time. Programming has increased depth, complexity, and pace in all academic content areas.This is the AAP or LLIV classroom but the biggest difference is just advanced math

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Level 3 is the highest the school can designate on its own without the central committee. And I do now see it as an admission by the school that your kid is ready for more in all subjects even if the school isn't quite able to provide it...
Level 4 is determined by a group of people who never met any of the kids ( or parents) for what it's worth.
At the end of the day there is a problem with who is and isn't in advanced math. They end up with kids in it needing extra help and kids outside it saying why can't I learn that that looks fun/ easy...
I asked a lot of questions, and was frustrated that the school system wasn't living up to their lip service if meeting every child's needs, but I never realized I was supposed to have such strong ambitions for my child to take algebra in 7th. And obviously, in 2nd grade when these paths are being predetermined, my kid had no idea yet that that might be something they would want. In the end dc did want it, and tells me that I should advocate more for dc2.

LIII designation does not include advanced math. Advanced math is a separate designation. LIII provided students with an opportunity to dive deeper into subjects and develop stronger critical thinking skills. It was focused more on LA, social studies, and science. Advanced math is its own class that was meant to identify students that are strong in math and accelerate them. In 5th grade, they covered 6th grade math and took the 6th grade SOL.

Separate programs. Kids are placed in LLIV, LIV, and advanced math throughout ES. I know kids who were encouraged to refer their kids in third grade and beyond. I know kids who joined advanced math at my kids' school in fifth and sixth grade.

There is nothing wrong with a kid taking Algebra 1H in 8th grade, they will be on track to complete calculus as a senior.

Unfortunately, this seems to be school specific and doesn't work this way at every ES. Every poster shares a different account of when and how advanced math is handled outside of L4 and who is eligible to participate.
Unrelated, under the "old" system (a year+ ago), Level 2 was for kids that needed individual subject differentiation and Level 3 was kids that needed more comprehensive advanced services. I explicitly asked our AART if by being eligible for Level 3, do you then by default have differentiation in all subjects, including math. The answer was yes. Turns out this may not be true. So a Level 3 kid gets weekly pull-outs to deep dive in all core subjects (inc. math) but doesn't necessarily qualify for advanced math? Make it make sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Level 3 is the highest the school can designate on its own without the central committee. And I do now see it as an admission by the school that your kid is ready for more in all subjects even if the school isn't quite able to provide it...
Level 4 is determined by a group of people who never met any of the kids ( or parents) for what it's worth.
At the end of the day there is a problem with who is and isn't in advanced math. They end up with kids in it needing extra help and kids outside it saying why can't I learn that that looks fun/ easy...
I asked a lot of questions, and was frustrated that the school system wasn't living up to their lip service if meeting every child's needs, but I never realized I was supposed to have such strong ambitions for my child to take algebra in 7th. And obviously, in 2nd grade when these paths are being predetermined, my kid had no idea yet that that might be something they would want. In the end dc did want it, and tells me that I should advocate more for dc2.

LIII designation does not include advanced math. Advanced math is a separate designation. LIII provided students with an opportunity to dive deeper into subjects and develop stronger critical thinking skills. It was focused more on LA, social studies, and science. Advanced math is its own class that was meant to identify students that are strong in math and accelerate them. In 5th grade, they covered 6th grade math and took the 6th grade SOL.

Separate programs. Kids are placed in LLIV, LIV, and advanced math throughout ES. I know kids who were encouraged to refer their kids in third grade and beyond. I know kids who joined advanced math at my kids' school in fifth and sixth grade.

There is nothing wrong with a kid taking Algebra 1H in 8th grade, they will be on track to complete calculus as a senior.

Advanced math did not exist outside of the level 4 classrooms at our center for my kids grade. If it did, dc would have been placed in it, with pass advance on sols, teachers identifying math a strength etc...

I thought maybe it existed and it was another case of misidentified kids like aap, but as kid got older and more aware of who was being pulled out of where for what, dc was never aware of any Gen Ed kids getting pulled during math to push in for the advanced math .
I think the county rhetoric has changed in the last couple of years, so maybe we'll see it handled differently for dc2

Anonymous wrote:Level 3 is the highest the school can designate on its own without the central committee. And I do now see it as an admission by the school that your kid is ready for more in all subjects even if the school isn't quite able to provide it...
Level 4 is determined by a group of people who never met any of the kids ( or parents) for what it's worth.
At the end of the day there is a problem with who is and isn't in advanced math. They end up with kids in it needing extra help and kids outside it saying why can't I learn that that looks fun/ easy...
I asked a lot of questions, and was frustrated that the school system wasn't living up to their lip service if meeting every child's needs, but I never realized I was supposed to have such strong ambitions for my child to take algebra in 7th. And obviously, in 2nd grade when these paths are being predetermined, my kid had no idea yet that that might be something they would want. In the end dc did want it, and tells me that I should advocate more for dc2.

LIII designation does not include advanced math. Advanced math is a separate designation. LIII provided students with an opportunity to dive deeper into subjects and develop stronger critical thinking skills. It was focused more on LA, social studies, and science. Advanced math is its own class that was meant to identify students that are strong in math and accelerate them. In 5th grade, they covered 6th grade math and took the 6th grade SOL.

Separate programs. Kids are placed in LLIV, LIV, and advanced math throughout ES. I know kids who were encouraged to refer their kids in third grade and beyond. I know kids who joined advanced math at my kids' school in fifth and sixth grade.

There is nothing wrong with a kid taking Algebra 1H in 8th grade, they will be on track to complete calculus as a senior.

Level 3 is the highest the school can designate on its own without the central committee. And I do now see it as an admission by the school that your kid is ready for more in all subjects even if the school isn't quite able to provide it...
Level 4 is determined by a group of people who never met any of the kids ( or parents) for what it's worth.
At the end of the day there is a problem with who is and isn't in advanced math. They end up with kids in it needing extra help and kids outside it saying why can't I learn that that looks fun/ easy...
I asked a lot of questions, and was frustrated that the school system wasn't living up to their lip service if meeting every child's needs, but I never realized I was supposed to have such strong ambitions for my child to take algebra in 7th. And obviously, in 2nd grade when these paths are being predetermined, my kid had no idea yet that that might be something they would want. In the end dc did want it, and tells me that I should advocate more for dc2.

Level III is different than advanced math and would not help with getting a kid seated in the LIV classroom for math. Advanced math is determine by each school. A teacher can say that a kid belongs in advanced math but until they put it in writing and the school leadership agrees there is no way to escalate the matter.

There is no good reason for Center schools to not have a class for kids who need advanced math if there is not space in LIV. Plenty of schools that didn't have LLIV had advanced math groupings and made it work. A Center can do the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are just pointing out outliers (yes some kids struggle! What a concept!) for the reason AAP centers aren’t working. Give me a break, you don’t give a shit if some kids struggle. You’re just salty your kid didn’t get in and want to ruin it for the rest of us talking nonsense about CeNtErS dOnT wOrK!!!!

Then you’re going as far as making up shit like only the AAP parents needed the math test re-takes. Only Aap kids struggle in math classes. I don’t even know how you would even know if it was an Aap parent/kid in middle school. None of us wear a sticker that says “we’re from the center!”

It’s just ridiculous. Leave centers alone. Yes I wish things were more equitable but I don’t know what to do about that and my kid doesn’t either. All he wants is what the center school experience is providing: greater challenges and higher quality peer group.

On behalf of center folks, we are sorry your kid didn’t get in. You can still apply every year and hopefully the screening committee gods will bless you.

Ummm, when your base school is the center school you know which kids were in the center aap classroom from third to sixth grade. You hear about their struggles from the ways kids complain. And honestly, I dgaf about in aap or not in aap, I never applied. I do gaf that we had teachers tell me that my kid needed advanced math but there was nothing they could do ( spaces full, not enough resources, can't swap kids during math time based on ability).

Are Center Gen Ed kids not able to access Adv Math? If that is true, you should contact higher ups because Adv Math is available to any student the school feels needs it based off concrete data.

Yes, I have a kid who needed advanced math but there was nothing that could be done about it...

Teacher here… you should contact higher ups. All kids should be able to access Adv Math as long as data warrants it. AAP status shouldn’t be an issue.

I believe the teacher who said dc needed advanced math said that there were years that they were able to move kids into the advanced math curriculum, but for dc's year there was nothing they could do. Center school and it seemed that only kids in dc's year getting advanced were the full time kids. That dc is in honors now, hoping for a better experience for dc number 2.

Again, parents need to escalate in that situation.

Federal and State law do NOT have loopholes for "this year we do not have room" or whatever other story was spun. FCPS simply is -required- to create room whenever and wherever needed. And claims like "no space" or "not enough funding" are totally 100% irrelevant under the law. FCPS keeps losing in both state and Federal court on these issues.

To be clear, PP stated that a "teacher" told them this. I assume this is not a fairfax county designated need. As such, while they might be accommodated in "slower" years based on space, they're under no obligation to. PP would need to have a Level III designation to demand some accomodation. Even with the designation, schools have a large discretion on how to fulfill that, whether its inclusion / push into into the AAP classroom entirely, part time, or some other way to accommodate advanced curriculum in whichever subject they're admitted.

While I'd fight it tooth and nail like another posted states given that it would affect me personally, I also am hypocritical in that I believe this situation is pretty much why both teachers and administration are so hesitant to share ANY information with parents relating to advanced services.

So.. making the admins do more work? What a jerk.