Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

Zero chance of this suit succeeding.

+1 ED does nto 'reduce competition" -- they are absolutely competing with each other to get those ED applicants just as much as they are competing to get the strongest RD applicants. And the argument that they use ED to reduce FA makes zero sense, since you can get out of ED if they fail to meet your FA needs.

They literally agree to keep their "hands off" kids who have been offered admission in ED by one of their supposed competitors. I can't imagine a clearer agreement not to compete/reduction in competition. (You seem to think any agreement that doesn't eliminate ALL competition is fine, but that's not how it works.)

I don't understand. You are saying college A should be fighting for a student even though that student has fully indicated they prefer college B and has agreed to attend if admitted? I mean why would college A care? They have plenty of other students who want them. Sounds like a toxic relationship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Early decision is a rich kid advantage. The rest of us can’t commit until we know what kind of scholarship or aid we’re offered.

And you will know what kind of scholarship or aid you are offered if you apply and are accepted ED. If you don't like the package, you can back out of ED -- it is the one reason students are allowed you to back out of ED. So either you don't know this provision, or you are just being obstreperous.

Or….it’s recently changed or it’s not the same for all schools. I know my kid isn’t applying ED to a particular law school because they don’t release the aid offered until much later. So ED is a financial gamble.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

Zero chance of this suit succeeding.

+1 ED does nto 'reduce competition" -- they are absolutely competing with each other to get those ED applicants just as much as they are competing to get the strongest RD applicants. And the argument that they use ED to reduce FA makes zero sense, since you can get out of ED if they fail to meet your FA needs.

They literally agree to keep their "hands off" kids who have been offered admission in ED by one of their supposed competitors. I can't imagine a clearer agreement not to compete/reduction in competition. (You seem to think any agreement that doesn't eliminate ALL competition is fine, but that's not how it works.)

No. The STUDENT consumer has the choice in ED. They choose to ED to a school or they choose not to and roll the dice in RD. And it is the Student who agrees not to apply elsewhere -- other schools being "hands off" is a red herring in your argument and completely irrelevant because the student is not interested in that other college - they already said they aren't interested and picked another school in the first round of competition. Schools compete to get them ED just as they compete to get them in RD and off the wait lists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

Zero chance of this suit succeeding.

+1 ED does nto 'reduce competition" -- they are absolutely competing with each other to get those ED applicants just as much as they are competing to get the strongest RD applicants. And the argument that they use ED to reduce FA makes zero sense, since you can get out of ED if they fail to meet your FA needs.

Of course ED prevents colleges from needing to compete on price, and reduces the amount of FA they give.

Here’s how FA works:
_ Every college gives you a different aid package.
_ If your favorite school is not the best price, you show them the better offer you got from a similar school.
_ If they want you, they match the price.

ED takes away your ability to secure competing offers, and thus your ability to bargain.

If a college wants you badly enough to reduce the FA to get you, then you don’t need any benefit from ED, do you?

That also goes for merit aid: If a college will give it to you, then you don’t need ED to apply there. None of the top schools, including the ones that have ED, give any merit aid.

If you are in the situation where you need to shop merit aid or try and start a competitive action for FA, you do not need any benefit from ED, and should not use it.

However, as has been pointed out so many times in this thread and others, if the NPC says you can afford the school, you can apply ED. And if the school is need blind, that will not factor in to the decision, but if it is, then you get a benefit from that as well. THAT is where ED can benefit those that don’t qualify for financial aid. And only there. Yes, full pay matters at most schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

Zero chance of this suit succeeding.

+1 ED does nto 'reduce competition" -- they are absolutely competing with each other to get those ED applicants just as much as they are competing to get the strongest RD applicants. And the argument that they use ED to reduce FA makes zero sense, since you can get out of ED if they fail to meet your FA needs.

They literally agree to keep their "hands off" kids who have been offered admission in ED by one of their supposed competitors. I can't imagine a clearer agreement not to compete/reduction in competition. (You seem to think any agreement that doesn't eliminate ALL competition is fine, but that's not how it works.)

That's silly. Bad argument. They are competing. Period.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Early decision is a rich kid advantage. The rest of us can’t commit until we know what kind of scholarship or aid we’re offered.

If your kid is not receiving need based financial aid, they are a rich kid. Get out of your bubble!

I guess you think people raising kids on $200,000 a year in a high COL place have just as much disposable income as people making millions with millions of assets and investments and inheritance.

Your definition of rich is naive. And lumping them together is silly.

And you thinking ED is a scam is silly. It's a tool that anyone can use. Run the NPC and decide if you are able/willing to pay that for school X. If not, don't apply ED. Then again, why apply at all, because the NPC doesn't change for RD.

It’s not a scam. It’s affirmative action for wealthy people.

DP: If you can't afford the NPC, you can't afford the school. Period. No matter when you apply. A wealthier family, or a family that saved more, or a kid who gets a bunch of outside scholarships might be able to afford school you can't afford. That has nothing to do with ED.

Anonymous wrote:Early decision is a rich kid advantage. The rest of us can’t commit until we know what kind of scholarship or aid we’re offered.

And you will know what kind of scholarship or aid you are offered if you apply and are accepted ED. If you don't like the package, you can back out of ED -- it is the one reason students are allowed you to back out of ED. So either you don't know this provision, or you are just being obstreperous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ED is for colleges, recruited athletes, and suckers.

And for kids who know exactly what they want.

+1
Every school should have ED so there is no doubt about who will actually enroll if accepted. This would save SO MUCH time and effort on both the students' and the colleges' part.

Except it makes it impossible to comparison shop based on merit aid. If it were up to me colleges wouldn’t be able to have binding ED and maintain their nonprofit status. I say this as someone who can afford the full cost of a private university for my kids so they’ll likely benefit from ED.

But nobody is entitled to merit aid. ED matches and the resulting probable guaranteed tuition revenue allows the schools to offer more merit etc later. I think those who are put off by ED are people who try to use ED to game the system themselves like EDing at a high reach or to allay self-imposed anxiety by having a sure thing in the fall rather than a range of choices in the spring. That was not the purpose of ED.

Maybe I just have a different perspective because it worked out well for my dc. He EDed to basically a target school and it was his first choice by far and we could pay. Boom done.

And? How is that relevant?

The point is that candidates who may otherwise be admitted cannot try because ED'ing means taking the risk of committing to a school they can't afford.

No one is entitled to admission, either.

NPCs are accurate and you can back out if the offer is less than suggested by the NPC. Nobody should be surprised by the cost when applying ED.

NCs are not always accurate and in any case, you can't back out because you didn't get the merit aid you need in order to attend.

Yes you can.

No, you can't. If you don't get the expected FA, then yes, you can't back out. But if you don't apply for FA but need merit aid, and don't get it? You are stuck.

And the vast majority of schools where add matters do NoT give merit aide. So unfortunately it's likely not somewhere you can afford

+1 Some schools are financially out of reach for most people, whether you apply ED or RD. That's not an issue with ED; that an issue with finances.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ED is for colleges, recruited athletes, and suckers.

And for kids who know exactly what they want.

+1
Every school should have ED so there is no doubt about who will actually enroll if accepted. This would save SO MUCH time and effort on both the students' and the colleges' part.

Except it makes it impossible to comparison shop based on merit aid. If it were up to me colleges wouldn’t be able to have binding ED and maintain their nonprofit status. I say this as someone who can afford the full cost of a private university for my kids so they’ll likely benefit from ED.

But nobody is entitled to merit aid. ED matches and the resulting probable guaranteed tuition revenue allows the schools to offer more merit etc later. I think those who are put off by ED are people who try to use ED to game the system themselves like EDing at a high reach or to allay self-imposed anxiety by having a sure thing in the fall rather than a range of choices in the spring. That was not the purpose of ED.

Maybe I just have a different perspective because it worked out well for my dc. He EDed to basically a target school and it was his first choice by far and we could pay. Boom done.

And? How is that relevant?

The point is that candidates who may otherwise be admitted cannot try because ED'ing means taking the risk of committing to a school they can't afford.

No one is entitled to admission, either.

NPCs are accurate and you can back out if the offer is less than suggested by the NPC. Nobody should be surprised by the cost when applying ED.

NCs are not always accurate and in any case, you can't back out because you didn't get the merit aid you need in order to attend.

Yes you can.

No, you can't. If you don't get the expected FA, then yes, you can't back out.* But if you don't apply for FA but need merit aid, and don't get it? You are stuck.

I see, well then don't apply.

That's right.

Affirmative action for the rich.

*should say, "If you don't get the expected FA, then yes, you can back out.

The school is going to accept a certain number of full pay students no matter when they apply. Their budgets rely on it.

Absolutely correct. The full pays in effect subsidize those who are not.

Subsidize? This is false. FA comes from endowment, not from your full pay tuition.

And yet, they can't pull everyone's tuition from the endowment, hence the need to have enough full pay students to operate the school. See how that works?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

Zero chance of this suit succeeding.

+1 ED does nto 'reduce competition" -- they are absolutely competing with each other to get those ED applicants just as much as they are competing to get the strongest RD applicants. And the argument that they use ED to reduce FA makes zero sense, since you can get out of ED if they fail to meet your FA needs.

Of course ED prevents colleges from needing to compete on price, and reduces the amount of FA they give.

Here’s how FA works:
_ Every college gives you a different aid package.
_ If your favorite school is not the best price, you show them the better offer you got from a similar school.
_ If they want you, they match the price.

ED takes away your ability to secure competing offers, and thus your ability to bargain.

Who does that? I've never head of anyone doing that at all, let alone finding that it works. It's got to be so rare that it does not impact the competition among colleges for ED students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

It's affirmative action for the rich. Students who have to compare aid packages or have parents who didn't go to college (and know about ED) are at a big disadvantage for ED.

I get the desire to compare aid packages, but ED accounts for that. If you have a true first choice and want to ED there, you will know the aid package at your true first choice in time to know whether or not you can afford to go there. If you can't -- i.e., the first choice school admits you, but does not meet your demonstrated need -- then you can apply everywhere else and compare those aid packages. If you don't have a true first choice, and the lowest bidder is your real goal, then ED is not a good option for you. It's an option that could result in a school that meets your demonstrated need, but it's not an option if you want more than your demonstrated need. That isn't a scam; it a choice.

Right, like the person you’re replying to said: ED is a special perk for the rich.

You can't read.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Early decision is a rich kid advantage. The rest of us can’t commit until we know what kind of scholarship or aid we’re offered.

Sure you can. You run the NPC. If you are able to pay what it says for college X, then you can apply ED. If not, then the numbers wont change for RD/EA.

If however, you mean, I can pay that but would prefer not to, well of course, then ED isn't for you. And you do EA/RD and get to compare offers. But dont' say you cannot ED. You simply don't want to

So you’re saying ED is only a rich-kid advantage because they have so much money that they don’t mind spending it unnecessarily. I agree. But that just shows why ED is a special advantage for the rich.

DP: No, and you are being purposefully obtuse. ED or not, everyone is limited to schools they can afford AND get into. My kid did ED to his favorite school and got in at a price we can afford. Your kid can do the same if he's a good candidate for his favorite school. If you don't have a favorite school, don't ED. But you absolutely can apply ED and get a financial aid package that works for you, and if it doesn't, you are not bound. Then you can reject the offer and go price shopping.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's literally a scam in an anti-trust way:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/32-colleges-accused-of-using-early-decision-to-drive-up-costs/757337/

Zero chance of this suit succeeding.

+1 ED does nto 'reduce competition" -- they are absolutely competing with each other to get those ED applicants just as much as they are competing to get the strongest RD applicants. And the argument that they use ED to reduce FA makes zero sense, since you can get out of ED if they fail to meet your FA needs.

They literally agree to keep their "hands off" kids who have been offered admission in ED by one of their supposed competitors. I can't imagine a clearer agreement not to compete/reduction in competition. (You seem to think any agreement that doesn't eliminate ALL competition is fine, but that's not how it works.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a scam at all. My child is not applying ED. We weighed the choices, and decided we want to keep options open and select a school with price tag in mind.

See how that works? The power is in the hands of the consumer. We have a plethora of choices. We weigh decisions with readily available information in hand.

It’s really the opposite of a scam.

Not really. I can’t afford $85-95k in tuition so we are not considering schools where ED plays prominently. I suspect the OP who is claiming “scam” cannot also. They ought to focus on schools that are a good fit, and stop with the sour grapes.



It puts your kid a a disadvantage if you do early decision or if you don’t. Just look at the numbers.

But you still won't be able to afford the 85-90k school in RD or Ea because they don't give much merit. So there is no way your kid will attend, so it doesn't matter when they apply if you cannot pay that much

Our budget is under $70k. We are looking at schools that fall within our budget. It’s pretty simple!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Early decision is a rich kid advantage. The rest of us can’t commit until we know what kind of scholarship or aid we’re offered.

Sure you can. You run the NPC. If you are able to pay what it says for college X, then you can apply ED. If not, then the numbers wont change for RD/EA.

If however, you mean, I can pay that but would prefer not to, well of course, then ED isn't for you. And you do EA/RD and get to compare offers. But dont' say you cannot ED. You simply don't want to

So you’re saying ED is only a rich-kid advantage because they have so much money that they don’t mind spending it unnecessarily. I agree. But that just shows why ED is a special advantage for the rich.