Anonymous wrote:The one note I have is that why is Marian consistly the worst dressed during these ball scenes?

Why the eff does her ballgown look like a dress vest from the back?! Why do so many of the dresses throughout the episode have what look like weird, floating stomachers? And the teal floral ballgown?!! Not really at all, but definitely not for a formal event. Also? Pick a season. Seasonality was a huge part of dressing in that era, and yet we see everything from velvet to weird poly lace, neither of which were suited to the narratives.

I'm all for a little artistic license, and there was definitely some "the bigger/bolder, the better" among the rich at that point, but the clothing in this episode was distracting af.

Anonymous wrote:Remember Bridget said she wanted to buy a nice dress with the money, but she didn’t know where she’d wear it. They’re adorable! 🥰

I'd forgotten that! awwww. Thanks.

Remember Bridget said she wanted to buy a nice dress with the money, but she didn’t know where she’d wear it. They’re adorable! 🥰

The greatest mystery of the world is why Cynthia Nixon is cosplaying a creepy doll in every scene. How does Christine Baranski not burst out laughing every time she opens her mouth?

Anonymous wrote:Oh and this isn't the ball but I want to note: the dress Bridget wears to Jack's house is easily the most luxurious thing we've ever seen a servant wear on the show while she's still working as a servant, and initially it felt very anachronistic to me, but then I remembered that Jack gave her a return on her investment in his clock and of course she spent it on a dress, that's exactly how someone in her situation would spend it. And then this results in her looking correct when Jack asks her to sit down and dine with him, instead of looking like a house maid sitting at the master's table. It was a nice little detail and I liked how it could be explained and then how it shows the way Jack and Bridget are set to represent a new kind of American, a sort of person who will come to define the country in the 20th century in a way that neither the old money Astors nor the robber baron Russells will -- immigrants from nothing who use hard work and ingenuity to build wealth and fortune. It's genuinely thrilling and for my money the best writing on the show right now.

<3

Anonymous wrote:Just saw an interesting Tik tok that posited the finale was written as a series, not season, finale, with nearly all loose ends tied up. The final scene was filmed as a maybe and added after the show was renewed.

Hard disagree, the episode was full of details clearly intended to set characters up for next season. I guess you could see Marion's and Peggy's engagements as "happily ever afters" but on this show, marriage is a beginning, not an ending. Marriage is one of the primary ways people (but especially women) build and amass power and status, and the show is essentially about how this era resulted in a lot of power shifts and status movement. So I view those engagements as hints at what is to come.

Same with Oscar and Mrs. Winterton -- that doesn't wrap up their storylines, it launches a new one for both characters.

Jack and Bridget are also entering a new and exciting era, and the scene of them sitting at the dining table hints at where it might be going as they likely marry and attempt to enter society with Jack's newfound fortune. The way their story also echoes the Russells beginnings is also interesting to me.

Gladys is also not at all wrapped up, even as she's turned a corner in her marriage. She has only just begun and there is a lot more to explore there with her imposing her will on British tradition and her sister in law.

The only storyline that felt wrapped up in a series finale kind of way to me was Agnes and Ada, with Agnes getting the role at the historical society and then ceding the house to Ada. Though after watching Downton Abbey, I also expect both of those will continue as storylines, as Agnes becomes a kind of protector of the old ways via her new role, and Ada continues to explore new ideas like suffrage and temperance from her position, especially via her relationships with both Marian and Peggy, who clearly intend to continue to challenge societal expectations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one note I have is that why is Marian consistly the worst dressed during these ball scenes?

Agree. Do the costume designers have it in for her?

She's had some beautiful costumes, but yes her ball dress was tacky and silly looking with those big black floofs on the bright reddish pink.

However, I actually feel the ball gowns (for the white people ball) were intentionally discordant with a lot of choices that were not that pretty or flattering. Bertha looked great, as did Gladys. This makes sense because it was their ball and their triumph -- here is Bertha ascendant, taking over the end of season ball from Mrs. Astor, and here is Gladys returning as a Duchess. Their dresses looked modern but not groundbreaking. The quality of the fabric and the brightness of the color are both meant to showcase their wealth. They depended on lots of jewels and tiaras for adornment over fussy embellishments on their dresses, because they can and it highlights Gladys's new status.

Noticeably, Mrs. Fish was also dressed in this style, showing her alignment with the Russells and the new guard even as she maintains her relationships with all the old 400. Bright colors, similar fabrics.

Then you have the old money set -- Agnes and Ada looked dour and over done, as they always do. Huge bustles, dark and fussy clothes, super high necks with tons of fringe and crap on them. It looks about 10 years out of date because it is, even if those dresses were newly made.

Mrs. Astor also showed up repping old money, wearing a dress that looked like it was literally made out of upholstery, also dark colors, but she's a more elegant woman with better style overall, so it looked better. Still this big and elaborate bustle but she also had a killer necklace on, because the Astors may not be British royals but they've got plenty of the old jewels and haven't had to sell them off for cash like the Van Rhyns.

Then you have the old money next gen, with Marian and Mrs. Astor's daughter (sorry blanking on her name). I found these to easily be the two ugliest dresses of the night. They were also two of the most modern dresses. The neckline on the Astor daughter, in particular, was very fashion van guard. I also think it wasn't flattering on her at all, elongating her already long face and long neck with a deep V. But the color was beautiful and the fabric adornment much more modern and updated than what you see on her mom or Agnes and Ada, with the embellishments sewn into the fabric instead of tacked on. Marian's dress was also pretty cutting edge (for the time) with the very rich color but the light and transparent fabric. Not heavy at all. These two were giving a peek at where fashion goes as the turn of the century nears, and also how technological improvements of the industrial age are reaching the garment industry and allowing for a much broader range of fabrications. I expect we'll see a LOT more of this in the next season, especially as Marian gets married and suddenly has access to Larry's money.

Then you have Mrs. Winterton who was wearing sort of old money drag -- it's got all the hallmarks but it looks cheap somehow. It's like the rich lady version of how Maud Beaton was dressed at the "house of ill repute" and I don't think that comparison was accidental given where her storyline with Oscar is headed. It will be interesting to see how she fits into society if/when she marries Oscar. She only got the ball invite at his request, but marrying into his family name will legitimize her in a way that marrying old man Winterton did not (though that got her money).

Oh and this isn't the ball but I want to note: the dress Bridget wears to Jack's house is easily the most luxurious thing we've ever seen a servant wear on the show while she's still working as a servant, and initially it felt very anachronistic to me, but then I remembered that Jack gave her a return on her investment in his clock and of course she spent it on a dress, that's exactly how someone in her situation would spend it. And then this results in her looking correct when Jack asks her to sit down and dine with him, instead of looking like a house maid sitting at the master's table. It was a nice little detail and I liked how it could be explained and then how it shows the way Jack and Bridget are set to represent a new kind of American, a sort of person who will come to define the country in the 20th century in a way that neither the old money Astors nor the robber baron Russells will -- immigrants from nothing who use hard work and ingenuity to build wealth and fortune. It's genuinely thrilling and for my many the best writing on the show right now. I wish they were nailing Peggy's story with the same deftness because her story, of a writer and activist who also winds up transcending class and racial boundaries through skill, passion, and good timing, is a similar sign of the future.

Just saw an interesting Tik tok that posited the finale was written as a series, not season, finale, with nearly all loose ends tied up. The final scene was filmed as a maybe and added after the show was renewed.

Anonymous wrote:The one note I have is that why is Marian consistly the worst dressed during these ball scenes?

Agree. Do the costume designers have it in for her?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of George's personality change this episode is due to the laudanum he's taking for the pain. He's likely becoming an addict, which explains the abrupt ending.

No way would normal George, who's been tormented all season about Gladys' marriage, leave before spending some time with her. I also think the ending would have been different if the series was not renewed - it would have ended with both balls. That last part set up the next season.

I think the idea of George becoming addicted is a real reach. Just seems like they tacked on the last scene so they could end it on a cliffhanger. Ridiculous, since George tells Bertha at the ball that he can see how happy Gladys is.

They had the close-up of Chekhov's Laudanum Bottle

+1 They could ultimately choose not to go down that path, but as of now, we were definitely shown that bottle for a reason.

Loved the finale! Like the long summary and the theories re George. I never thought I’d ever feel sympathetic for Bertha. The next season will have a good start.

I was so happy to see the vile Mrs. Kirkland finally get put in her place by both Mrs. Scott and her own husband.

The one note I have is that why is Marian consistly the worst dressed during these ball scenes?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of George's personality change this episode is due to the laudanum he's taking for the pain. He's likely becoming an addict, which explains the abrupt ending.

No way would normal George, who's been tormented all season about Gladys' marriage, leave before spending some time with her. I also think the ending would have been different if the series was not renewed - it would have ended with both balls. That last part set up the next season.

I think the idea of George becoming addicted is a real reach. Just seems like they tacked on the last scene so they could end it on a cliffhanger. Ridiculous, since George tells Bertha at the ball that he can see how happy Gladys is.

They had the close-up of Chekhov's Laudanum Bottle

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FINALE SPOILERS INCOMING

I really liked the finale. I especially liked that they upended expectation by having Mr. Russell remain estranged from Bertha at the end of the episode, even though the rest of the episode you think the assassination attempt is what will bring them back together. I also thought it was realistic -- George respects how cutthroat and striving Bertha is, because he's like that too, but he HAS to be in charge of every situation because that's just how he is as a person and he can't forgive her for essentially overriding him regarding Gladys. I think it's completely in keeping with his character, he never gives an inch in anything and he obviously really hated feeling like the situation with Gladys was totally out of his hands. I also liked seeing Bertha misread that situation -- this is like her one weakness and that's good, it gives Coon something to do other than swan around acting imperious, and I look forward to what they do with this next season.

Happy for Peggy and Marion and also happy/hopeful to be freed of the "unlucky in love" plot lines for both. It was getting very old. It's much more interesting to maybe see them navigating marriage, both to families with some messy dynamics they will have to navigate.

LOVE everything with Jack, his entire storyline this season was the most subtly done in terms of allowing the actors to actually act the subtext without constantly shoving it down our throats. I really enjoyed both the scene of him visiting his old friends and feeling slightly awkward about it, as well as Bridget visiting him and watching their little romance unfolding. It's sweet and feels novel and interesting. Hope to see more of this.

Also liked what they did with Agnes and Ada, with the historical society and Agnes finally giving Ada her due (and a pleasure to see Ada acting like something other than a bumbling fool, this gets so old especially the way Nixon plays it, she's much better as a competent person who no one has previously listened to but who now has a voice).

Finally, surprisingly happy to see where the Oscar and Mrs. Winterton collaboration is headed. I thought Oscar had given up on finding a beard but she's honestly the ideal candidate -- rich, the right age, and morally compromised enough to be totally fine with the arrangement (to be clear, I don't think it's immortal that Oscar is gay, just saying the vast majority of society women of the time would be afraid to do this either because they would be horrified by his homosexuality or because they'd fear society approbation if other people found out). I normally find both these characters annoying but together they might be a fun alliance.

Great post, and I agree with much of it.

However, I was coming here to post basically the opposite impression you had about George and Bertha! I felt like the only *realistic* explanation for his rewriting history (his cowardice) and also now being turned off by her cutthroat ambition would be that he's having an affair. That's certainly been many people's experience over on the Relationship forum -- that their cheating spouse turned nasty and nitpicky while conducting the affair, as a way to reconcile their own guilty conscience.

But, to be clear, I don't actually think that's what the storyline will be, so I was left rolling my eyes at the writing because it felt very out of George's character to me. That said, you've given me a new take on it, so I'll have to think about that!

Regarding George and Bertha, I think the issue is that he's always seemed kind of doting/admiring of Bertha's ambition, and that seems to have reversed. But I think it's because he's previously been able to see it as him allowing or facilitating Bertha's ambition with his own success. She could only do stuff like build the opera house or throw these extravagant parties to win people over because of his money and the access it can buy. So he could look at those actions with pride.

The Gladys situation was different, because he didn't really endorse it and Bertha went ahead with it anyway. So he can't take pride in it because she basically overrode him. The timing of it was also very problematic because it involved paying this massive dowry to the Duke (and paying for this huge wedding) just as George was experiencing major cash flow issues and his business and fortune were at risk. He didn't want to tell Bertha "I am worried about affording this, please don't push forward" so instead he expressed concern about whether it was good for Gladys (which I think was a concern but was also convenient), but Berth wouldn't back down. I think that *feeling* was very unsettling for George, being unsure he could actually provide the thing Bertha was insisting on, and perhaps fearing that if his business issues didn't get worked out, he could wind up exposed on multiple levels, not just losing a ton of money but also in debt to this Duke they sold Gladys to. I think George refuses to forgive Bertha for making him feel vulnerable, even if it all worked out later thanks to Larry's success with the mines.

+1 Million. This is the thing that makes it make sense for the characters, to me. He even tried to drive such a bargain that the Duke would walk away and seek another heiress, because that would make it so that he could 1) fulfill his promise to Gladys, but 2) not be seen as intentionally sabotaging Bertha. And that machination didn't work out for him, which was one in a series of "defeats" at the negotiating table. His anger toward Bertha is tied up with his feeling of not having control over the railroad situation or the Morenci mines, and ultimately teetering on the brink of financial ruin at the hands of his former man of business. It's not really anything to do with Bertha's ruthlessness, though that's what he's wrapping it up in to make it make sense. He can't tell her "you unmanned me by putting in in a position to spend money I didn't have" so it's all about Gladys being sad for 3 weeks.

PP here and yes to all. To me George is transparently using Gladys as an excuse to reject Bertha because he is still upset about how close he came to losing it all and blames Bertha for overextending them financially. But he also refused to tell her or anyone in the family (including Larry) how bad things were. He can't bear to be seen as anything but all-powerful, even (or perhaps especially) by his family. Of course he wants to maintain distance from Bertha now, it's the best way for him to control his image and their relationship.

I think it's an interesting turn for his character to take and I didn't mind that it was a bit of a blindside. It would have been tidy to wind the season up with George and Bertha back in lockstep with each other, but ultimately boring.