Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A person only gets screwed if a significantly less qualified kid from the same school gets admitted.

And you didn't get screwed if no one from your school was accepted.

How do you define this?

Here's something I saw on Reddit - I think EVERYONE with a high stats kid should read the below (in answer to the question of how high stats/crazy ECs/awards kids still routinely get rejected:
https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1kl81su/comment/ms29pcm

Former admissions officer here from a top college, short answer: absolutely.

Here’s why:

I’ve seen plenty of high-achieving students get rejected, even with near-perfect GPAs and test scores. The biggest reasons? They didn’t show a genuine interest in our school, skipped optional supplements (which aren’t really optional unless your main app shows a strong alignment with the school’s mission), or came off as immature or unaware in their essays. Some shared stories that raised more concerns than confidence.

Having amazing stats isn’t a free pass to any university. Every school has a unique culture, and you still need to explain why you belong there specifically. Too often, students assume strong stats are enough, but admissions is just as much as about connecting with the adcom as it is about stats. You essays, recs, and activities need to bring out your personality, character, and alignment with the school.

I’ve read common app essays from students that went on and on about their inspiration and passion for engineering, for a school that did not offer an engineering major/track. Making us wonder, why you were even applying to our school. You have to make every school you apply to feel like they’re you’re #1 choice, because universities also care about their conversion rate of students that they admit, who actually commit, they do not want to offer a seat to students that are not enthusiastic about their school because every seat the school offers, may be the equivalent of rejecting 5 other highly qualified students who would say YES!

Think of it like dating. A 4.0 and a 1500+ SAT is similar to being tall, attractive, and fit. Great for many — but lots of other people check those boxes too. And to stand out, especially to a person who is also attractive and has many options (a highly selective university in our case) you need personality and depth that resonates with the person (school). And even then, you still might get rejected because you simply weren’t what they were looking for at that time, it’s not always personal.

I feel like many students and parents fail to understand the purpose of academic stats. We use these numbers as a way to gauge whether or not you can handle the workload and rigors of our classroom. The more rigorous and prestigious the school, the higher that bar is. But once you’re over it, it’s all about character, values, and alignment.

And here’s the twist: top schools do take chances on students with less-than-average stats, IF their story is powerful, inspiring, and shows grit. Because these schools have the academic resources to support them. Every year we see students who applied with perfect SAT scores and 4.0 GPAs with <2.5 First semester GPAs. As schools we accept the fact that students will struggle in our classroom regardless of their stats, and we address this by offering an abundance of academic resources to ensure students don’t flunk out, because that’s actually a poor reflection on us. So we can lean on the fact that students who may have not had the best HS academic performance can still do well in our classrooms if they utilize the resources our campus offers.

What sometimes matters more than stats is that the student has something meaningful to contribute and the potential to thrive with the right support.

Anonymous wrote:OP here - this kid ended up getting into many T10 off the WLs.

All good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting rejected is not the same as getting screwed. Getting rejected from a top school is understandable.

I think high stats kids (and their parents) think that the bar should be higher than it actually is. For example, they probably feel that a TO kid or a kid with a 1450 should not be given a chance due to the fact that there are tons of kids applying to the top schools with greater than a 1500.

High stats doesn't make you compelling to an AO. That's the truth. Plain & simple.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A person only gets screwed if a significantly less qualified kid from the same school gets admitted.

And you didn't get screwed if no one from your school was accepted.

How do you define this?

Here's something I saw on Reddit - I think EVERYONE with a high stats kid should read the below (in answer to the question of how high stats/crazy ECs/awards kids still routinely get rejected:
https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1kl81su/comment/ms29pcm

Former admissions officer here from a top college, short answer: absolutely.

Here’s why:

I’ve seen plenty of high-achieving students get rejected, even with near-perfect GPAs and test scores. The biggest reasons? They didn’t show a genuine interest in our school, skipped optional supplements (which aren’t really optional unless your main app shows a strong alignment with the school’s mission), or came off as immature or unaware in their essays. Some shared stories that raised more concerns than confidence.

Having amazing stats isn’t a free pass to any university. Every school has a unique culture, and you still need to explain why you belong there specifically. Too often, students assume strong stats are enough, but admissions is just as much as about connecting with the adcom as it is about stats. You essays, recs, and activities need to bring out your personality, character, and alignment with the school.

I’ve read common app essays from students that went on and on about their inspiration and passion for engineering, for a school that did not offer an engineering major/track. Making us wonder, why you were even applying to our school. You have to make every school you apply to feel like they’re you’re #1 choice, because universities also care about their conversion rate of students that they admit, who actually commit, they do not want to offer a seat to students that are not enthusiastic about their school because every seat the school offers, may be the equivalent of rejecting 5 other highly qualified students who would say YES!

Think of it like dating. A 4.0 and a 1500+ SAT is similar to being tall, attractive, and fit. Great for many — but lots of other people check those boxes too. And to stand out, especially to a person who is also attractive and has many options (a highly selective university in our case) you need personality and depth that resonates with the person (school). And even then, you still might get rejected because you simply weren’t what they were looking for at that time, it’s not always personal.

I feel like many students and parents fail to understand the purpose of academic stats. We use these numbers as a way to gauge whether or not you can handle the workload and rigors of our classroom. The more rigorous and prestigious the school, the higher that bar is. But once you’re over it, it’s all about character, values, and alignment.

And here’s the twist: top schools do take chances on students with less-than-average stats, IF their story is powerful, inspiring, and shows grit. Because these schools have the academic resources to support them. Every year we see students who applied with perfect SAT scores and 4.0 GPAs with <2.5 First semester GPAs. As schools we accept the fact that students will struggle in our classroom regardless of their stats, and we address this by offering an abundance of academic resources to ensure students don’t flunk out, because that’s actually a poor reflection on us. So we can lean on the fact that students who may have not had the best HS academic performance can still do well in our classrooms if they utilize the resources our campus offers.

What sometimes matters more than stats is that the student has something meaningful to contribute and the potential to thrive with the right support.

The powerful, inspiring stories are mostly BS. You know that right?

Anonymous wrote:Getting rejected is not the same as getting screwed. Getting rejected from a top school is understandable.

I think high stats kids (and their parents) think that the bar should be higher than it actually is. For example, they probably feel that a TO kid or a kid with a 1450 should not be given a chance due to the fact that there are tons of kids applying to the top schools with greater than a 1500.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A person only gets screwed if a significantly less qualified kid from the same school gets admitted.

And you didn't get screwed if no one from your school was accepted.

How do you define this?

Here's something I saw on Reddit - I think EVERYONE with a high stats kid should read the below (in answer to the question of how high stats/crazy ECs/awards kids still routinely get rejected:
https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1kl81su/comment/ms29pcm

Former admissions officer here from a top college, short answer: absolutely.

Here’s why:

I’ve seen plenty of high-achieving students get rejected, even with near-perfect GPAs and test scores. The biggest reasons? They didn’t show a genuine interest in our school, skipped optional supplements (which aren’t really optional unless your main app shows a strong alignment with the school’s mission), or came off as immature or unaware in their essays. Some shared stories that raised more concerns than confidence.

Having amazing stats isn’t a free pass to any university. Every school has a unique culture, and you still need to explain why you belong there specifically. Too often, students assume strong stats are enough, but admissions is just as much as about connecting with the adcom as it is about stats. You essays, recs, and activities need to bring out your personality, character, and alignment with the school.

I’ve read common app essays from students that went on and on about their inspiration and passion for engineering, for a school that did not offer an engineering major/track. Making us wonder, why you were even applying to our school. You have to make every school you apply to feel like they’re you’re #1 choice, because universities also care about their conversion rate of students that they admit, who actually commit, they do not want to offer a seat to students that are not enthusiastic about their school because every seat the school offers, may be the equivalent of rejecting 5 other highly qualified students who would say YES!

Think of it like dating. A 4.0 and a 1500+ SAT is similar to being tall, attractive, and fit. Great for many — but lots of other people check those boxes too. And to stand out, especially to a person who is also attractive and has many options (a highly selective university in our case) you need personality and depth that resonates with the person (school). And even then, you still might get rejected because you simply weren’t what they were looking for at that time, it’s not always personal.

I feel like many students and parents fail to understand the purpose of academic stats. We use these numbers as a way to gauge whether or not you can handle the workload and rigors of our classroom. The more rigorous and prestigious the school, the higher that bar is. But once you’re over it, it’s all about character, values, and alignment.

And here’s the twist: top schools do take chances on students with less-than-average stats, IF their story is powerful, inspiring, and shows grit. Because these schools have the academic resources to support them. Every year we see students who applied with perfect SAT scores and 4.0 GPAs with <2.5 First semester GPAs. As schools we accept the fact that students will struggle in our classroom regardless of their stats, and we address this by offering an abundance of academic resources to ensure students don’t flunk out, because that’s actually a poor reflection on us. So we can lean on the fact that students who may have not had the best HS academic performance can still do well in our classrooms if they utilize the resources our campus offers.

What sometimes matters more than stats is that the student has something meaningful to contribute and the potential to thrive with the right support.

The powerful, inspiring stories are mostly BS. You know that right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A person only gets screwed if a significantly less qualified kid from the same school gets admitted.

And you didn't get screwed if no one from your school was accepted.

How do you define this?

Here's something I saw on Reddit - I think EVERYONE with a high stats kid should read the below (in answer to the question of how high stats/crazy ECs/awards kids still routinely get rejected:
https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1kl81su/comment/ms29pcm

Former admissions officer here from a top college, short answer: absolutely.

Here’s why:

I’ve seen plenty of high-achieving students get rejected, even with near-perfect GPAs and test scores. The biggest reasons? They didn’t show a genuine interest in our school, skipped optional supplements (which aren’t really optional unless your main app shows a strong alignment with the school’s mission), or came off as immature or unaware in their essays. Some shared stories that raised more concerns than confidence.

Having amazing stats isn’t a free pass to any university. Every school has a unique culture, and you still need to explain why you belong there specifically. Too often, students assume strong stats are enough, but admissions is just as much as about connecting with the adcom as it is about stats. You essays, recs, and activities need to bring out your personality, character, and alignment with the school.

I’ve read common app essays from students that went on and on about their inspiration and passion for engineering, for a school that did not offer an engineering major/track. Making us wonder, why you were even applying to our school. You have to make every school you apply to feel like they’re you’re #1 choice, because universities also care about their conversion rate of students that they admit, who actually commit, they do not want to offer a seat to students that are not enthusiastic about their school because every seat the school offers, may be the equivalent of rejecting 5 other highly qualified students who would say YES!

Think of it like dating. A 4.0 and a 1500+ SAT is similar to being tall, attractive, and fit. Great for many — but lots of other people check those boxes too. And to stand out, especially to a person who is also attractive and has many options (a highly selective university in our case) you need personality and depth that resonates with the person (school). And even then, you still might get rejected because you simply weren’t what they were looking for at that time, it’s not always personal.

I feel like many students and parents fail to understand the purpose of academic stats. We use these numbers as a way to gauge whether or not you can handle the workload and rigors of our classroom. The more rigorous and prestigious the school, the higher that bar is. But once you’re over it, it’s all about character, values, and alignment.

And here’s the twist: top schools do take chances on students with less-than-average stats, IF their story is powerful, inspiring, and shows grit. Because these schools have the academic resources to support them. Every year we see students who applied with perfect SAT scores and 4.0 GPAs with <2.5 First semester GPAs. As schools we accept the fact that students will struggle in our classroom regardless of their stats, and we address this by offering an abundance of academic resources to ensure students don’t flunk out, because that’s actually a poor reflection on us. So we can lean on the fact that students who may have not had the best HS academic performance can still do well in our classrooms if they utilize the resources our campus offers.

What sometimes matters more than stats is that the student has something meaningful to contribute and the potential to thrive with the right support.

Anonymous wrote:A person only gets screwed if a significantly less qualified kid from the same school gets admitted.

And you didn't get screwed if no one from your school was accepted.

Anonymous wrote:it is bizarre to me that seemingly the same people want a total scores only meritocracy re: admitting black students (and make alot of assumptions about the objective criteria vis a vis the black students) and yet flip out when asians beat whites at the scores and start talking about wholistic factors. If you are going to stress out your kids by teaching them that their value is dependent on what schools they get into at least pick a lane

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

You are basically arguing that computer science skills are more worthy than great writers or great dancers or great linguists and so on. You need to find a place at a school that agrees with that. If you are trying to get a place at a school that also values scientific research skills, then you might get beat out by a science researcher. What the student brings to the table needs to align with what the school wants on the table.

No. I am not arguing that at all. What I am saying and seeing is that these Asian superstars are often times studying a STEM major and a Humanities major. So, really, they are all-rounders. Good communicators, able to see the big picture, good debaters etc. Most of them are polygots- knowing multiple languages. In addition to all of this - they are dancers, painters, singers, photographers, and accompalished musicians too. It is the culture of being all-rounders and excelling in everything. So, it becomes immaterial if Ivies don't take them. They are increasing the profile of the regular state colleges. In schools like UMD, it is extremely hard for average kids to get into the high demand classes or even compete with the cohort.

Ok. So they're not screwed. I thought this thread was about students feeling they were screwed over by getting a spot at UMD. Umd is a very fine institution with competitive admissions and offers significant opportunities to its graduates . I am not of the opinion that anyone is screwed over by going there but that was the topic of this thread.

No. I believe that Asian students have changed the rhetoric now. The tippy-top students are being rejected for being Asians (yes, I understand that colleges want diversity and not merit) and they are going to state flagships instead. So, now, because the influx of these academic superstars, state colleges are doing very well and rising in ranking. The only downside I can see is the average student in-state may find it extremely hard to get into these programs because the academic stats and ECs are so high.

Having super hardworking Asians in this country is a boon for this country and for our educational institutions. It is keeping US competitive. And no, intelligence does not have a racial component. Individuals can be geniuses and every child can be educated to reach their best.

You seem to be myopically focused on what you call academic super stardom. That simply is not enough at some of these top schools. Almost all the students at top colleges are overall academic superstars. So many of the students at these places have an additional very developed specific talent.

Every department at the school is fighting to get students in there that they want in their programs. Nobody is fighting for an overall well-rounded high-level academic student. The math department want s. High-level math majors. The arts department s want accomplished people in their discipline. The diving coach wants an Olympic diver. That coach does not care if the diver is Asian or white or black or green. They want the best diver they can get.

If they're admitting a class of a thousand, you are not competing against every kid that's applying to the school. You are competing against the other students with your specific talent for the most part.

Again, you are using the same old racist trope of Asians being academic superstars but nothing more than that. Most Asian students are multi-faceted kids who excel equally in various ECs, are multi-lingual, have more exposure to different cultures, will give back to the community etc. They are also mentally and emotionally strong, having a solid family support and financial strength behind them.

Anyhow, Asian Americans are smart enough to anticipate the jealousy and hate from Whites (Blacks and Hispanics are too downtrodden to impact Asians in any way but through violence). and take steps to mitigate it. They are determined to not be victims and are forward looking. They elevate any school they go to and do well in their careers.

In any case, the percentage of super achievers among Asian-Americans is high enough that colleges cannot do without them. Even with all the discrimination - Asians will continue to rise.

Rage bait quota met for the day?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think any kids get "screwed" in the college application process. What a peculiar way of looking at things.

If you are the #1 kid in your school, aiming for T10/T20, and you end up at the flagship or worse (and not for financial reasons), then yeah, I think you were screwed since kids ranked FAR below you got into the schools you were aiming for?
Maybe it was your application? Your major? Your story?

What a strange sense of entitlement. If that came across in the application process, it might explain the rejection. The bottom line is this mythological "screwed" student is the common denominator here -- there's obviously something defective about them. They don't deserve a T10/T20 because of their stats -- and it's a fallacy to suspect that kids "ranked FAR below you got into schools you were aiming for." It's clear they had something you did not. Deal with it. You (or your kid) isn't nearly as special as you thought and isn't owed anything at all.

DP

I see it every year. Talk to any college cosultant They will tell you... "At least you're not Asian". All things being equal asians get screwed. Being white isn't great either but it's better than being asian.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

You are basically arguing that computer science skills are more worthy than great writers or great dancers or great linguists and so on. You need to find a place at a school that agrees with that. If you are trying to get a place at a school that also values scientific research skills, then you might get beat out by a science researcher. What the student brings to the table needs to align with what the school wants on the table.

No. I am not arguing that at all. What I am saying and seeing is that these Asian superstars are often times studying a STEM major and a Humanities major. So, really, they are all-rounders. Good communicators, able to see the big picture, good debaters etc. Most of them are polygots- knowing multiple languages. In addition to all of this - they are dancers, painters, singers, photographers, and accompalished musicians too. It is the culture of being all-rounders and excelling in everything. So, it becomes immaterial if Ivies don't take them. They are increasing the profile of the regular state colleges. In schools like UMD, it is extremely hard for average kids to get into the high demand classes or even compete with the cohort.

Ok. So they're not screwed. I thought this thread was about students feeling they were screwed over by getting a spot at UMD. Umd is a very fine institution with competitive admissions and offers significant opportunities to its graduates . I am not of the opinion that anyone is screwed over by going there but that was the topic of this thread.

No. I believe that Asian students have changed the rhetoric now. The tippy-top students are being rejected for being Asians (yes, I understand that colleges want diversity and not merit) and they are going to state flagships instead. So, now, because the influx of these academic superstars, state colleges are doing very well and rising in ranking. The only downside I can see is the average student in-state may find it extremely hard to get into these programs because the academic stats and ECs are so high.

Having super hardworking Asians in this country is a boon for this country and for our educational institutions. It is keeping US competitive. And no, intelligence does not have a racial component. Individuals can be geniuses and every child can be educated to reach their best.

You seem to be myopically focused on what you call academic super stardom. That simply is not enough at some of these top schools. Almost all the students at top colleges are overall academic superstars. So many of the students at these places have an additional very developed specific talent.

Every department at the school is fighting to get students in there that they want in their programs. Nobody is fighting for an overall well-rounded high-level academic student. The math department want s. High-level math majors. The arts department s want accomplished people in their discipline. The diving coach wants an Olympic diver. That coach does not care if the diver is Asian or white or black or green. They want the best diver they can get.

If they're admitting a class of a thousand, you are not competing against every kid that's applying to the school. You are competing against the other students with your specific talent for the most part.

Again, you are using the same old racist trope of Asians being academic superstars but nothing more than that. Most Asian students are multi-faceted kids who excel equally in various ECs, are multi-lingual, have more exposure to different cultures, will give back to the community etc. They are also mentally and emotionally strong, having a solid family support and financial strength behind them.

Anyhow, Asian Americans are smart enough to anticipate the jealousy and hate from Whites (Blacks and Hispanics are too downtrodden to impact Asians in any way but through violence). and take steps to mitigate it. They are determined to not be victims and are forward looking. They elevate any school they go to and do well in their careers.

In any case, the percentage of super achievers among Asian-Americans is high enough that colleges cannot do without them. Even with all the discrimination - Asians will continue to rise.