Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should he be forgiving loans?

Why should people have to take out massive loans just to get an education in the first place?

I disagree with Trump on more or less everything, but shouldn’t that all depend on what students decide to study? I’ll gladly subsidize more doctors or teachers in rural communities no one wants to work in, but not let’s say, a $60k per year degree in underwater basketweaving from a private college.

What you’re really saying is that you’re willing to subsidize a vocational education (engineering, doctors, nurses, teachers) not traditional college/university education (philosophy, English literature, etc) which is meant to expand the mind. It seems more and more people treat college/universities as vocational schools for white collar jobs. It is a wonder that students are allowed electives.

Half of Americas high school grads read and do math at a 7 or 8th grade level.

They shouldn’t be using anyone’s money for college unless they start putting up real work and performance.

The kids who can only read and do math at a 7th or 8th grade level aren't the ones going to college, nimrod.

Look again.

This is false, and I think you are conflating different things. While educational attainment goals in high schools have been dropping, there is no evidence that any significant percentage of currently-enrolled college students can only read or do math at a 7th or 8th grade level.

Telling people "Look again" isn't going to somehow make fictitious statistics materialize for you.

DP here. When some colleges admit 90+% of applicants and don’t require any standardized tests, how could you possibly know?

Who is it that fought tooth and nail against standardized tests and trying to raise the bar on the k12 curriculum?

REPUBLICANS.

DP here. While I don't disagree, that's not what I meant. I meant, if colleges aren't going to require an ACT/SAT/AP scores, they actually have know idea what the applicant actually knows.

Anonymous wrote:In this thread, many important points were raised -

It's not getting a break on loan repayment that's the scam, it's the crazy state of our college education that's the scam (similar to our healthcare system.)

It's not student loans that most people are worried about in terms of fraud, it's all of the corporate grift - fraudulent PPP loans, corporate subsidies, tax breaks for billionaires and so on.

But every time these kinds of other relevant, related topics were brought up, bad faith posters would frenetically and hysterically try to deflect and demonize college attendees.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should he be forgiving loans?

Why should people have to take out massive loans just to get an education in the first place?

I disagree with Trump on more or less everything, but shouldn’t that all depend on what students decide to study? I’ll gladly subsidize more doctors or teachers in rural communities no one wants to work in, but not let’s say, a $60k per year degree in underwater basketweaving from a private college.

What you’re really saying is that you’re willing to subsidize a vocational education (engineering, doctors, nurses, teachers) not traditional college/university education (philosophy, English literature, etc) which is meant to expand the mind. It seems more and more people treat college/universities as vocational schools for white collar jobs. It is a wonder that students are allowed electives.

Half of Americas high school grads read and do math at a 7 or 8th grade level.

They shouldn’t be using anyone’s money for college unless they start putting up real work and performance.

The kids who can only read and do math at a 7th or 8th grade level aren't the ones going to college, nimrod.

Look again.

This is false, and I think you are conflating different things. While educational attainment goals in high schools have been dropping, there is no evidence that any significant percentage of currently-enrolled college students can only read or do math at a 7th or 8th grade level.

Telling people "Look again" isn't going to somehow make fictitious statistics materialize for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should he be forgiving loans?

Why should people have to take out massive loans just to get an education in the first place?

I disagree with Trump on more or less everything, but shouldn’t that all depend on what students decide to study? I’ll gladly subsidize more doctors or teachers in rural communities no one wants to work in, but not let’s say, a $60k per year degree in underwater basketweaving from a private college.

What you’re really saying is that you’re willing to subsidize a vocational education (engineering, doctors, nurses, teachers) not traditional college/university education (philosophy, English literature, etc) which is meant to expand the mind. It seems more and more people treat college/universities as vocational schools for white collar jobs. It is a wonder that students are allowed electives.

dp. if you put it that way.. yes. At least people can find good paying jobs in vocational trade, and pay back their loans.

Your "college is not a vocational school" rant is tiresome, grandma/grandpa.

Listen, Flower, parents and students already expect colleges to land you a job, so they’ve become vocational schools, so they should be treated and recognized as such. As the other poster said, traditional college study should be the priority and subsidized differently or not at all.

Then, no one should subsidize your navel gazing major. Do it on your own dime, sweetie.

Ahhh here's another MAGA twit who's fully subscribed to the FALSE notion that some massive percentage of kids are getting degrees in "underwater basket weaving."

It is clear you have not attended a university or college in the last 30 years. Kids these days are even getting weak ass milktoast computer science degrees and finding out afterwards that nobody is interested in employing them because they cannot engineer their way out of a paper bag.

Something dramatic has to change. And it needs to come from both ends. Dry up the funding in the form of student loans and close a huge number of the schools and programs. What we have now is a distorted fiction with no proper market forces.

I do a lot of interviews. You wouldn't believe the number of recent grads who can't even perform simple programming tasks like loop over a list or array. I've started hiring older people and career switchers.

I actually do believe it. I somehow ended up with /computerscience or the equivalent on reddit, and it is a huge number of kids complaining about being unemployable. We wrote an interpreter / compiler for Ruby in graduate school that ultimately ran code on the java virtual machine. I have confidence 80% or more of these "computer science" graduates do not even understand the principles behind the java virtual machine, and certainly would never be able to work with bytecode to run on it.

Woah woah woah, wtf?

Anonymous wrote:
If you're directly writing or manipulating bytecode for a JVM you're doing it wrong. That's the job of the java compiler.

I remember the shift from C++ to Java in my university training. Java was just so bad and slow, I hated making shoddy programs (Steve Jobs got that one right when he banned it on iPhones). Couldn't deploy it anywhere, but it was easy to teach, and they could train a bunch of Indians from the IIT who had never used a computer before to use it then claim there weren't Americans with those skills. It was absurd at the Grad School I went to; the Senior Project was writing a Java Interpreter in JAVA!

Anymore it seems like they make up new skills just to justify their Visas, but it's what they teach at the IIT, we need that one skill, it's gotta be that one skill, no other will do and you can't learn it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should he be forgiving loans?

Why should people have to take out massive loans just to get an education in the first place?

I disagree with Trump on more or less everything, but shouldn’t that all depend on what students decide to study? I’ll gladly subsidize more doctors or teachers in rural communities no one wants to work in, but not let’s say, a $60k per year degree in underwater basketweaving from a private college.

What you’re really saying is that you’re willing to subsidize a vocational education (engineering, doctors, nurses, teachers) not traditional college/university education (philosophy, English literature, etc) which is meant to expand the mind. It seems more and more people treat college/universities as vocational schools for white collar jobs. It is a wonder that students are allowed electives.

dp. if you put it that way.. yes. At least people can find good paying jobs in vocational trade, and pay back their loans.

Your "college is not a vocational school" rant is tiresome, grandma/grandpa.

Listen, Flower, parents and students already expect colleges to land you a job, so they’ve become vocational schools, so they should be treated and recognized as such. As the other poster said, traditional college study should be the priority and subsidized differently or not at all.

Then, no one should subsidize your navel gazing major. Do it on your own dime, sweetie.

Ahhh here's another MAGA twit who's fully subscribed to the FALSE notion that some massive percentage of kids are getting degrees in "underwater basket weaving."

It is clear you have not attended a university or college in the last 30 years. Kids these days are even getting weak ass milktoast computer science degrees and finding out afterwards that nobody is interested in employing them because they cannot engineer their way out of a paper bag.

Something dramatic has to change. And it needs to come from both ends. Dry up the funding in the form of student loans and close a huge number of the schools and programs. What we have now is a distorted fiction with no proper market forces.

I do a lot of interviews. You wouldn't believe the number of recent grads who can't even perform simple programming tasks like loop over a list or array. I've started hiring older people and career switchers.

I actually do believe it. I somehow ended up with /computerscience or the equivalent on reddit, and it is a huge number of kids complaining about being unemployable. We wrote an interpreter / compiler for Ruby in graduate school that ultimately ran code on the java virtual machine. I have confidence 80% or more of these "computer science" graduates do not even understand the principles behind the java virtual machine, and certainly would never be able to work with bytecode to run on it.

Anonymous wrote:
If you're directly writing or manipulating bytecode for a JVM you're doing it wrong. That's the job of the java compiler.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should he be forgiving loans?

Why should people have to take out massive loans just to get an education in the first place?

I disagree with Trump on more or less everything, but shouldn’t that all depend on what students decide to study? I’ll gladly subsidize more doctors or teachers in rural communities no one wants to work in, but not let’s say, a $60k per year degree in underwater basketweaving from a private college.

What you’re really saying is that you’re willing to subsidize a vocational education (engineering, doctors, nurses, teachers) not traditional college/university education (philosophy, English literature, etc) which is meant to expand the mind. It seems more and more people treat college/universities as vocational schools for white collar jobs. It is a wonder that students are allowed electives.

Half of Americas high school grads read and do math at a 7 or 8th grade level.

They shouldn’t be using anyone’s money for college unless they start putting up real work and performance.

The kids who can only read and do math at a 7th or 8th grade level aren't the ones going to college, nimrod.

Look again.

This is false, and I think you are conflating different things. While educational attainment goals in high schools have been dropping, there is no evidence that any significant percentage of currently-enrolled college students can only read or do math at a 7th or 8th grade level.

Telling people "Look again" isn't going to somehow make fictitious statistics materialize for you.

DP here. When some colleges admit 90+% of applicants and don’t require any standardized tests, how could you possibly know?

Who is it that fought tooth and nail against standardized tests and trying to raise the bar on the k12 curriculum?

REPUBLICANS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should he be forgiving loans?

Why should people have to take out massive loans just to get an education in the first place?

I disagree with Trump on more or less everything, but shouldn’t that all depend on what students decide to study? I’ll gladly subsidize more doctors or teachers in rural communities no one wants to work in, but not let’s say, a $60k per year degree in underwater basketweaving from a private college.

What you’re really saying is that you’re willing to subsidize a vocational education (engineering, doctors, nurses, teachers) not traditional college/university education (philosophy, English literature, etc) which is meant to expand the mind. It seems more and more people treat college/universities as vocational schools for white collar jobs. It is a wonder that students are allowed electives.

Half of Americas high school grads read and do math at a 7 or 8th grade level.

They shouldn’t be using anyone’s money for college unless they start putting up real work and performance.

The kids who can only read and do math at a 7th or 8th grade level aren't the ones going to college, nimrod.

Look again.

This is false, and I think you are conflating different things. While educational attainment goals in high schools have been dropping, there is no evidence that any significant percentage of currently-enrolled college students can only read or do math at a 7th or 8th grade level.

Telling people "Look again" isn't going to somehow make fictitious statistics materialize for you.

DP here. When some colleges admit 90+% of applicants and don’t require any standardized tests, how could you possibly know?

Who is it that fought tooth and nail against standardized tests and trying to raise the bar on the k12 curriculum?

REPUBLICANS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should he be forgiving loans?

Why should people have to take out massive loans just to get an education in the first place?

I disagree with Trump on more or less everything, but shouldn’t that all depend on what students decide to study? I’ll gladly subsidize more doctors or teachers in rural communities no one wants to work in, but not let’s say, a $60k per year degree in underwater basketweaving from a private college.

What you’re really saying is that you’re willing to subsidize a vocational education (engineering, doctors, nurses, teachers) not traditional college/university education (philosophy, English literature, etc) which is meant to expand the mind. It seems more and more people treat college/universities as vocational schools for white collar jobs. It is a wonder that students are allowed electives.

Half of Americas high school grads read and do math at a 7 or 8th grade level.

They shouldn’t be using anyone’s money for college unless they start putting up real work and performance.

The kids who can only read and do math at a 7th or 8th grade level aren't the ones going to college, nimrod.

I guess you missed this article the article below that got a lot of attention when it was first published. I can confirm as the parent of a senior in a highly competitive college that school assignments in high school and college did not involve reading a lot of actual books from cover to cover but excerpts from books or short articles. In contrast, I had to read dozens of whole books in HS and college and write 15-20 page papers vs. the 3-5 page papers being assigned now.

THE ELITE COLLEGE STUDENTS WHO CAN’T READ BOOKS
To read a book in college, it helps to have read a book in high school.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/11/the-elite-college-students-who-cant-read-books/679945/

Yes, the American education system has had to dumb itself down significantly because the attention spans of children are now under 1 minute (47 seconds to be exact).

We also no longer hold children back for almost any reason and there are all these “alternative” ways to graduate HS. Parents are no longer expected to be participants in their children’s education - we can’t require homework, or even proper behavior. So yeah - school has become basically just glorified daycare for the kids who chose not to do any of the work. And there are many of them, starting very young.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should he be forgiving loans?

Why should people have to take out massive loans just to get an education in the first place?

I disagree with Trump on more or less everything, but shouldn’t that all depend on what students decide to study? I’ll gladly subsidize more doctors or teachers in rural communities no one wants to work in, but not let’s say, a $60k per year degree in underwater basketweaving from a private college.

What you’re really saying is that you’re willing to subsidize a vocational education (engineering, doctors, nurses, teachers) not traditional college/university education (philosophy, English literature, etc) which is meant to expand the mind. It seems more and more people treat college/universities as vocational schools for white collar jobs. It is a wonder that students are allowed electives.

Half of Americas high school grads read and do math at a 7 or 8th grade level.

They shouldn’t be using anyone’s money for college unless they start putting up real work and performance.

The kids who can only read and do math at a 7th or 8th grade level aren't the ones going to college, nimrod.

Look again.

This is false, and I think you are conflating different things. While educational attainment goals in high schools have been dropping, there is no evidence that any significant percentage of currently-enrolled college students can only read or do math at a 7th or 8th grade level.

Telling people "Look again" isn't going to somehow make fictitious statistics materialize for you.

DP here. When some colleges admit 90+% of applicants and don’t require any standardized tests, how could you possibly know?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should he be forgiving loans?

Why should people have to take out massive loans just to get an education in the first place?

I disagree with Trump on more or less everything, but shouldn’t that all depend on what students decide to study? I’ll gladly subsidize more doctors or teachers in rural communities no one wants to work in, but not let’s say, a $60k per year degree in underwater basketweaving from a private college.

What you’re really saying is that you’re willing to subsidize a vocational education (engineering, doctors, nurses, teachers) not traditional college/university education (philosophy, English literature, etc) which is meant to expand the mind. It seems more and more people treat college/universities as vocational schools for white collar jobs. It is a wonder that students are allowed electives.

Half of Americas high school grads read and do math at a 7 or 8th grade level.

They shouldn’t be using anyone’s money for college unless they start putting up real work and performance.

The kids who can only read and do math at a 7th or 8th grade level aren't the ones going to college, nimrod.

I guess you missed this article the article below that got a lot of attention when it was first published. I can confirm as the parent of a senior in a highly competitive college that school assignments in high school and college did not involve reading a lot of actual books from cover to cover but excerpts from books or short articles. In contrast, I had to read dozens of whole books in HS and college and write 15-20 page papers vs. the 3-5 page papers being assigned now.

THE ELITE COLLEGE STUDENTS WHO CAN’T READ BOOKS
To read a book in college, it helps to have read a book in high school.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/11/the-elite-college-students-who-cant-read-books/679945/

Yes, the American education system has had to dumb itself down significantly because the attention spans of children are now under 1 minute (47 seconds to be exact).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should he be forgiving loans?

Why should people have to take out massive loans just to get an education in the first place?

I disagree with Trump on more or less everything, but shouldn’t that all depend on what students decide to study? I’ll gladly subsidize more doctors or teachers in rural communities no one wants to work in, but not let’s say, a $60k per year degree in underwater basketweaving from a private college.

What you’re really saying is that you’re willing to subsidize a vocational education (engineering, doctors, nurses, teachers) not traditional college/university education (philosophy, English literature, etc) which is meant to expand the mind. It seems more and more people treat college/universities as vocational schools for white collar jobs. It is a wonder that students are allowed electives.

Half of Americas high school grads read and do math at a 7 or 8th grade level.

They shouldn’t be using anyone’s money for college unless they start putting up real work and performance.

The kids who can only read and do math at a 7th or 8th grade level aren't the ones going to college, nimrod.

I guess you missed this article the article below that got a lot of attention when it was first published. I can confirm as the parent of a senior in a highly competitive college that school assignments in high school and college did not involve reading a lot of actual books from cover to cover but excerpts from books or short articles. In contrast, I had to read dozens of whole books in HS and college and write 15-20 page papers vs. the 3-5 page papers being assigned now.

THE ELITE COLLEGE STUDENTS WHO CAN’T READ BOOKS
To read a book in college, it helps to have read a book in high school.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/11/the-elite-college-students-who-cant-read-books/679945/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should he be forgiving loans?

Why should people have to take out massive loans just to get an education in the first place?

I disagree with Trump on more or less everything, but shouldn’t that all depend on what students decide to study? I’ll gladly subsidize more doctors or teachers in rural communities no one wants to work in, but not let’s say, a $60k per year degree in underwater basketweaving from a private college.

What you’re really saying is that you’re willing to subsidize a vocational education (engineering, doctors, nurses, teachers) not traditional college/university education (philosophy, English literature, etc) which is meant to expand the mind. It seems more and more people treat college/universities as vocational schools for white collar jobs. It is a wonder that students are allowed electives.

Half of Americas high school grads read and do math at a 7 or 8th grade level.

They shouldn’t be using anyone’s money for college unless they start putting up real work and performance.

The kids who can only read and do math at a 7th or 8th grade level aren't the ones going to college, nimrod.

Look again.

This is false, and I think you are conflating different things. While educational attainment goals in high schools have been dropping, there is no evidence that any significant percentage of currently-enrolled college students can only read or do math at a 7th or 8th grade level.

Telling people "Look again" isn't going to somehow make fictitious statistics materialize for you.