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Anonymous wrote:I actually think BASIS should just be an application school. Some kind of entrance exam and if you pass it, you can lottery for it. But then require them to backfill when kids leave. Then they can keep their standards but it functions as a real option for kids prepared for academic rigor who want that kind of school.

I am a happy BASIS parent. Bolded is a TERRIBLE idea. The BASIS model (across the country with a large sample size) says that every kid can succeed in a rigorous environment if provided support and early enough intervention. Testing at 5th grade (or earlier) just perpetuates systemic advantages of wealth and 2 family, 2 income households. The solution is not making it test in. The solution is twofold:

1. Let them open an elementary school so more kids from wider swaths of the city and socioeconomic groups develop the background to succeed
2. Let them give placement (NOT admission) tests so matched older kids can be met where they are in their learning and placed in the proper grade for where they are in their academic journey

This is naive because what you seem not to understand is that a BASIS elementary would simply serve as a "test in" substitute because students who don't have enough support would not do well at that elementary school and thus would not advance to the middle school.

The current system already perpetuates systemic advantages of wealthy and 2-parent, 2-income households. It just hides behind the lottery. The reality is that kids who arrive at BASIS in 5th who don't have good support at home and, ideally, educated parents, do poorly and leave. And many kids never even go to BASIS in the first place because of this. Also BASIS asks a lot of parents in terms of financial contributions, and that culture also pushes out families with less money. But because BASIS can say "we're a lottery school, we take all comers," it can pretend it is offering equitable education. It is not.

Also, read the PP. The idea is not to have an entrance exam at 5th, but to have a screening exam for kids joining at any grade. And to force backfill. So not some 5th grade entrance exam, but a proficiency exam for any kid entering at any grade to make sure they could handle the basic coursework. This would offer MORE opportunities to kids from other socioeconomic levels because instead of BASIS entrance depending on having the kind of parent or guardian who (1) knows what BASIS is and is prepared to lottery for 5th, and (2) can manage the commute downtown for a 10 year old, older kids could lottery into BASIS after passing the entrance exam, which would enable MS and HS kids who have the skills and motivation to move to BASIS on their own impetus or via support from other adults. And they can ride the bus or metro and take that on. As it currently stands, teens in DC are essentially locked out of BASIS. Think about what this means for students across the city who don't have the sort of parent/advocate who plans their schooling 5 years in advance and knows how to navigate systems easily.

The placement exam that would put kids in another grade based on their level is a no go because it ignores the fact that public education serves multiple purposes. You can't put a 15 year old in a 6th grade classroom. It would not work for that kid and it wouldn't work for that classroom. Be realistic.

You need to be pragmatic and not operate with pie in the sky ideals about the education system or what life is like for the average public school student in DC. We need real solutions that give kids a chance to get an education that make sense for the life they are actually living and prepares them for the life they will actually lead. I think if you talked to low income families throughout the city, you'd learn there would be a lot of interst/support in the model I'm outlining because there are many families who want more rigorous education for their kids but who are not part of this UMC professional pipeline in the city that funnels mostly certain types of kids into and through schools like BASIS. You need democratizing methods and the way BASIS currently works is the opposite of democratizing. It's self selection.

TL; DR: "Equity" is the most important thing we should focus on, and if it means the lowest common denominator rules, then so be it. So: shitty schools for all, and if you don't like, you're probably super racist.

Yes - no equity, no peace.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think BASIS should just be an application school. Some kind of entrance exam and if you pass it, you can lottery for it. But then require them to backfill when kids leave. Then they can keep their standards but it functions as a real option for kids prepared for academic rigor who want that kind of school.

I am a happy BASIS parent. Bolded is a TERRIBLE idea. The BASIS model (across the country with a large sample size) says that every kid can succeed in a rigorous environment if provided support and early enough intervention. Testing at 5th grade (or earlier) just perpetuates systemic advantages of wealth and 2 family, 2 income households. The solution is not making it test in. The solution is twofold:

1. Let them open an elementary school so more kids from wider swaths of the city and socioeconomic groups develop the background to succeed
2. Let them give placement (NOT admission) tests so matched older kids can be met where they are in their learning and placed in the proper grade for where they are in their academic journey

This is naive because what you seem not to understand is that a BASIS elementary would simply serve as a "test in" substitute because students who don't have enough support would not do well at that elementary school and thus would not advance to the middle school.

The current system already perpetuates systemic advantages of wealthy and 2-parent, 2-income households. It just hides behind the lottery. The reality is that kids who arrive at BASIS in 5th who don't have good support at home and, ideally, educated parents, do poorly and leave. And many kids never even go to BASIS in the first place because of this. Also BASIS asks a lot of parents in terms of financial contributions, and that culture also pushes out families with less money. But because BASIS can say "we're a lottery school, we take all comers," it can pretend it is offering equitable education. It is not.

Also, read the PP. The idea is not to have an entrance exam at 5th, but to have a screening exam for kids joining at any grade. And to force backfill. So not some 5th grade entrance exam, but a proficiency exam for any kid entering at any grade to make sure they could handle the basic coursework. This would offer MORE opportunities to kids from other socioeconomic levels because instead of BASIS entrance depending on having the kind of parent or guardian who (1) knows what BASIS is and is prepared to lottery for 5th, and (2) can manage the commute downtown for a 10 year old, older kids could lottery into BASIS after passing the entrance exam, which would enable MS and HS kids who have the skills and motivation to move to BASIS on their own impetus or via support from other adults. And they can ride the bus or metro and take that on. As it currently stands, teens in DC are essentially locked out of BASIS. Think about what this means for students across the city who don't have the sort of parent/advocate who plans their schooling 5 years in advance and knows how to navigate systems easily.

The placement exam that would put kids in another grade based on their level is a no go because it ignores the fact that public education serves multiple purposes. You can't put a 15 year old in a 6th grade classroom. It would not work for that kid and it wouldn't work for that classroom. Be realistic.

You need to be pragmatic and not operate with pie in the sky ideals about the education system or what life is like for the average public school student in DC. We need real solutions that give kids a chance to get an education that make sense for the life they are actually living and prepares them for the life they will actually lead. I think if you talked to low income families throughout the city, you'd learn there would be a lot of interst/support in the model I'm outlining because there are many families who want more rigorous education for their kids but who are not part of this UMC professional pipeline in the city that funnels mostly certain types of kids into and through schools like BASIS. You need democratizing methods and the way BASIS currently works is the opposite of democratizing. It's self selection.

TL; DR: "Equity" is the most important thing we should focus on, and if it means the lowest common denominator rules, then so be it. So: shitty schools for all, and if you don't like, you're probably super racist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think BASIS should just be an application school. Some kind of entrance exam and if you pass it, you can lottery for it. But then require them to backfill when kids leave. Then they can keep their standards but it functions as a real option for kids prepared for academic rigor who want that kind of school.

I am a happy BASIS parent. Bolded is a TERRIBLE idea. The BASIS model (across the country with a large sample size) says that every kid can succeed in a rigorous environment if provided support and early enough intervention. Testing at 5th grade (or earlier) just perpetuates systemic advantages of wealth and 2 family, 2 income households. The solution is not making it test in. The solution is twofold:

1. Let them open an elementary school so more kids from wider swaths of the city and socioeconomic groups develop the background to succeed
2. Let them give placement (NOT admission) tests so matched older kids can be met where they are in their learning and placed in the proper grade for where they are in their academic journey

This is naive because what you seem not to understand is that a BASIS elementary would simply serve as a "test in" substitute because students who don't have enough support would not do well at that elementary school and thus would not advance to the middle school.

The current system already perpetuates systemic advantages of wealthy and 2-parent, 2-income households. It just hides behind the lottery. The reality is that kids who arrive at BASIS in 5th who don't have good support at home and, ideally, educated parents, do poorly and leave. And many kids never even go to BASIS in the first place because of this. Also BASIS asks a lot of parents in terms of financial contributions, and that culture also pushes out families with less money. But because BASIS can say "we're a lottery school, we take all comers," it can pretend it is offering equitable education. It is not.

Also, read the PP. The idea is not to have an entrance exam at 5th, but to have a screening exam for kids joining at any grade. And to force backfill. So not some 5th grade entrance exam, but a proficiency exam for any kid entering at any grade to make sure they could handle the basic coursework. This would offer MORE opportunities to kids from other socioeconomic levels because instead of BASIS entrance depending on having the kind of parent or guardian who (1) knows what BASIS is and is prepared to lottery for 5th, and (2) can manage the commute downtown for a 10 year old, older kids could lottery into BASIS after passing the entrance exam, which would enable MS and HS kids who have the skills and motivation to move to BASIS on their own impetus or via support from other adults. And they can ride the bus or metro and take that on. As it currently stands, teens in DC are essentially locked out of BASIS. Think about what this means for students across the city who don't have the sort of parent/advocate who plans their schooling 5 years in advance and knows how to navigate systems easily.

The placement exam that would put kids in another grade based on their level is a no go because it ignores the fact that public education serves multiple purposes. You can't put a 15 year old in a 6th grade classroom. It would not work for that kid and it wouldn't work for that classroom. Be realistic.

You need to be pragmatic and not operate with pie in the sky ideals about the education system or what life is like for the average public school student in DC. We need real solutions that give kids a chance to get an education that make sense for the life they are actually living and prepares them for the life they will actually lead. I think if you talked to low income families throughout the city, you'd learn there would be a lot of interst/support in the model I'm outlining because there are many families who want more rigorous education for their kids but who are not part of this UMC professional pipeline in the city that funnels mostly certain types of kids into and through schools like BASIS. You need democratizing methods and the way BASIS currently works is the opposite of democratizing. It's self selection.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think BASIS should just be an application school. Some kind of entrance exam and if you pass it, you can lottery for it. But then require them to backfill when kids leave. Then they can keep their standards but it functions as a real option for kids prepared for academic rigor who want that kind of school.

I am a happy BASIS parent. Bolded is a TERRIBLE idea. The BASIS model (across the country with a large sample size) says that every kid can succeed in a rigorous environment if provided support and early enough intervention. Testing at 5th grade (or earlier) just perpetuates systemic advantages of wealth and 2 family, 2 income households. The solution is not making it test in. The solution is twofold:

1. Let them open an elementary school so more kids from wider swaths of the city and socioeconomic groups develop the background to succeed
2. Let them give placement (NOT admission) tests so matched older kids can be met where they are in their learning and placed in the proper grade for where they are in their academic journey

Anonymous wrote:Basis doesn't take anyone after 5th grade, at all? So a family that moves to DC in 7th grade is completely shut out of Basis, even if their kid would thrive in that environment?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always found highly educated DC parents to be remarkably blasé about the lack of tracking and differentiation in DCPS. It is a pretty outrageous system that does not come close to meeting the needs of advanced students.

Our Capitol Hill MS has advanced math tracks, but puts all the kids together in every other subject. It is absurd, and it’s not good for the advanced learners to be in class with kids who can’t keep up, nor for kids who need a slower pace or more help to have to share teacher’s time with kids who are way ahead.

Unfortunately, we lost the lotto.

Tracking is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's like not the kids don't know who's smart. When I was their age, all the kids knew who was the smartest kid in class and who was the dumbest and who was pretty smart but would outwork anyone and who was smart but incredibly lazy and who was perfectly average. It's no secret to the students which kids belong where. It's the parent's feelings and political leanings that are the problem.

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Anonymous wrote:It's always so interesting how these BASIS threads go. Every thread brings out a cohort of posters who cannot stop themselves from maligning the school. Some people have legit complaints based on actual experiences and facts (and you can tell who they are) but many have no idea what they're talking about and simply accuse others of being boosters when they get called out. Of all the problems this city has with education, it's unbelievable how much energy people seem to spend dumping on this school.

Honestly, I know two different families whose kids (three in total) didn't make it through (one did) and they were so hurt by the whole thing... they went in as happy, curious pro-school kids, and came out anxious and hating school. For the kids who work, it works and they're happy, but statistically it doesn't work for most kids... and for taxpayer dollars to go and support that kind of record, just to line the pockets of investors... yeah it really pisses me off.

Does DCPS have problems? yeah! big time! is Basis the answer? only for a small number of those who try it!

Look at the test scores. BASIS *trounces* almost every non-private school in the city. You should be pissed off at these schools that churn out graduates who can't even read.

https://www.empowerk12.org/public-dashboards

Look at the number of kids who go into basis and look how many graduate! That fraction of kids who makes it through the whole school would almost certainly be high scoring at any high school.

I don’t like low scores anywhere but siphoning tax dollars into a for profit system that fails the vast majority of students isn’t the solution.

I’m not anti charter school - pitch me some good non dcps ideas and I’ll bite. Basis ain’t it tho.

Eh, sounds like you just hate charters.

Parents send their kids to BASIS because DCPS is synonymous with low standards. Challenging smart kids is literally the last thing DCPS is worried about.

If you're worried about tax dollars (and I'm pretty sure you actually aren't), you should ask yourself how taxpayers can fund DCPS so well that even elementary school gym teachers make six figure salaries and yet DCPS test scores are worse than Mississippi's. Taxpayers spend an awful lot of public schools in this city and get very little in return.

You don't have to be anti-charter to see that the BASIS business model isn't built to support the 'whole child' and to find that deeply problematic when there could be more funds available locally if they weren't going towards BASIS Ed and when the business model presupposes that parents contributed $300,000 through direct contributions or fees for lock-ins/dances in order to pay the teachers.

I don't know what this word salad is supposed to say but BASIS gets a lot fewer tax dollars than public schools and yet gets far better results.

A lot better results for a narrow number of kids - most kids who start there don’t get the good results.

Look, if you have one of the narrow band of kids who excels in that environment, great… but why should my tax dollars pay for it? Finding alternatives to main stream public school is fine with me, since I think we can all agree that dcps version is not working for most kids in the city, but an alternative that only works for a fraction of the kids who try it shouldn’t be the answer. Even if it was a niche learning environment but the vast majority of kids who try it succeed, I could be okay with it. But basis really feels like a way for parents who really want to send their kids to a rigorous private but want someone else to pay.

Publicly financed education is about getting the best results for the most number of kids, dcps doesn’t do that, but neither does basis.

Do we have to close Banneker too if some kids decide it's too hard? Do you have the same policy for Duke Ellington, if some kids enroll but decide later they want to be engineers and not actors? What about our many bilingual schools? They lose an *enormous* number of kids. By your weird standard, I guess they'd have to go too.

Not closed, but restructured or reorganized or whatever.

And yeah, if Duke Ellington stops serving most of the kids that get sent there, it should be retooled or shut. We shouldn't be using tax dollars to support education that doesn't work for most people.

This is how you end up with nonsense like "differentiation is the same as segregation." race to the bottom, diluted curriculum that ends up benefitting no one.

segregation is using taxpayer dollars to fund a for-profit that caters to a small group of kids who, demographically, aren't representative of the city and saying "well don't blame me, Banneker is a lousy school, give me your money to fund my kid and eff those kids in public".

Suggest to a BASIS parent that the money we send to the investors would be better used improving DCPS and you'll hear all sorts of bizarre arguments. Bad schools or schools that only serve a fraction of the population should not be funded by taxpayer dollars.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think BASIS should just be an application school. Some kind of entrance exam and if you pass it, you can lottery for it. But then require them to backfill when kids leave. Then they can keep their standards but it functions as a real option for kids prepared for academic rigor who want that kind of school.

I am a happy BASIS parent. Bolded is a TERRIBLE idea. The BASIS model (across the country with a large sample size) says that every kid can succeed in a rigorous environment if provided support and early enough intervention. Testing at 5th grade (or earlier) just perpetuates systemic advantages of wealth and 2 family, 2 income households. The solution is not making it test in. The solution is twofold:

1. Let them open an elementary school so more kids from wider swaths of the city and socioeconomic groups develop the background to succeed
2. Let them give placement (NOT admission) tests so matched older kids can be met where they are in their learning and placed in the proper grade for where they are in their academic journey

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You also probably need to do some research to learn why DC decided to open its doors to charter schools in the first place -- it's because DCPS was failing the community in the 1990s.

we're not talking about the wisdom of charter schools, we're talking about the wisdom of BASIS.

Anonymous wrote:I actually think BASIS should just be an application school. Some kind of entrance exam and if you pass it, you can lottery for it. But then require them to backfill when kids leave. Then they can keep their standards but it functions as a real option for kids prepared for academic rigor who want that kind of school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think BASIS should just be an application school. Some kind of entrance exam and if you pass it, you can lottery for it. But then require them to backfill when kids leave. Then they can keep their standards but it functions as a real option for kids prepared for academic rigor who want that kind of school.

Really the only issue I have with it is that they don't backfill. I don't have a problem with a school with that approach and with strict requirements for advancing. It's not what I want for my kids but I get some people do. DC needs more good options for MS and above. That means a school that doesn't backfill is a drag on the system because they are releasing students when there are already so few spots at rigorous schools, but there are absolutely kids past 5th grade who could succeed at BASIS if given the chance.

DC code 38–1802.06 - criteria for admission to charter schools cannot include measures of achievement or aptitude. This idea would require a change to the law.

With respect to backfilling, if BASIS were to backfill they'd have to have smaller 5th grade classes to accommodate backfilled classes in higher grades due to space constraints. Unclear to me whether or not that would actually be a preferred approach.

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Anonymous wrote:This may be a stupid question, but do DCPS public middle schools do differentiation/tracking?

Yes. They might not call it exactly that, but they absolutely do. My experience is that they’ll be pretty upfront about how they determine classes/cohorts of kids.

Depends on the school. Recently went to a Q&A session with a DCPS that bragged about not tracking in any subject (except math).

This is my understanding, too.

This all proves the OPs point. In many other school districts, including th near suburbs in moco and Fairfax county, the school identifies gifted students and then gives them different work.

The fact that DCPS does not do that and in fact totally neglects those students is the problem.