Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my DD was 6 years old, we were in a relatively empty park pretending to play baseball. She would bat the pretend ball and then run the bases for a home run. We were having fun. Then an off-leash dog decided that this looked like a fun game. It came tearing after her barking and lunging and she screamed and ran faster. Of course, this really made the dog want to chase her. She finally fell to the ground screaming and the dog bit her. It was a small dog but she was also small. The whole thing was really terrifying. The owner just said sorry my (little angel dog) has never done anything like that before. This is the problem.

That’s not ideal obviously but was your daughter killed? That’s the issue

Uh, that is not the issue.

Like obviously we should take actions to ensure dogs aren't mauling 1st graders in the park but also dogs shouldn't be chasing 1st graders until they fall down and then biting them either.

BTW experiences like that are a great way to ensure that kids in your neighborhood don't like dogs which will make their parents much less tolerant of your dogs. My kid became terrified of dogs after an off leash dog barked really loud at her on the street. It was such a stupid situation -- we were in a crowded shopping district and this woman's dog encountered my 3 yr old and started barking at her and then the woman came up a second later and just stood there. The dog didn't attack or bite but was taller than my kid and SUPER loud and scared her really bad. We picked her up as it happened and calmed her down but after that she became very nervous around dogs and still doesn't really like them. Even friend and family dogs, she mostly just tolerates.

So just an FYI that your crappy dog owner behavior is creating a generation of kids who dislike dogs. Good work.

Anonymous wrote:When my DD was 6 years old, we were in a relatively empty park pretending to play baseball. She would bat the pretend ball and then run the bases for a home run. We were having fun. Then an off-leash dog decided that this looked like a fun game. It came tearing after her barking and lunging and she screamed and ran faster. Of course, this really made the dog want to chase her. She finally fell to the ground screaming and the dog bit her. It was a small dog but she was also small. The whole thing was really terrifying. The owner just said sorry my (little angel dog) has never done anything like that before. This is the problem.

That’s not ideal obviously but was your daughter killed? That’s the issue

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Brooklyn, and Prospect Park designates three off-leash areas before 9 am for dogs to run around. Sure, there are sometimes dog spats and once in a while dogs get bitten (my own included once), but I have never seen a "bloodbath." There are also runners, birders, and assorted random people in the park at that time, and we all somehow manage to rub along together. This is my dog's favorite part of the day and truly a godsend for me, since he is a very energetic 70 lb German Shepherd/Huskie mix, and I honestly don't think I could exercise him enough solely through my own efforts and my spouse's combined. I can't run around at top speed like he does with the other dogs!

I live in a city with a similar situation. It's been great for the dogs and by 9am, they are leashed. Works out well.

Well, the reason it works well is because you are following the rules. Show up at 11 with your unleashed dog while the local sitters are there with 10 preschoolers, and you've got a problem.

Sure, but some people seem to just be arguing that a dog should never be off leash outside their own home.

The aggressive dog owners are such jerks. They want everyone to walk around on high alert because they insist on keeping dogs that can literally kill around others. Sick and depraved

Oh, BS! We're minding our business when your lawless jerk self let your "friendly" dogs in our space.

Mind your own business and there won't be a problem

Aggressive dog breeds should be banned in high density areas. We shouldn’t have to worry that a minor slip up will result in serious injury. This is not that hard

Anonymous wrote:When my DD was 6 years old, we were in a relatively empty park pretending to play baseball. She would bat the pretend ball and then run the bases for a home run. We were having fun. Then an off-leash dog decided that this looked like a fun game. It came tearing after her barking and lunging and she screamed and ran faster. Of course, this really made the dog want to chase her. She finally fell to the ground screaming and the dog bit her. It was a small dog but she was also small. The whole thing was really terrifying. The owner just said sorry my (little angel dog) has never done anything like that before. This is the problem.

Never would've happened if the dog owner had been responsible and kept their "friendly little angel dog" on a damned leash. I'm sorry that happened to your family, and I wish the people on this thread who let their "friendly breed" dogs run loose would pay attention and follow the laws so it doesn't happen to someone else's kid(s) too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my DD was 6 years old, we were in a relatively empty park pretending to play baseball. She would bat the pretend ball and then run the bases for a home run. We were having fun. Then an off-leash dog decided that this looked like a fun game. It came tearing after her barking and lunging and she screamed and ran faster. Of course, this really made the dog want to chase her. She finally fell to the ground screaming and the dog bit her. It was a small dog but she was also small. The whole thing was really terrifying. The owner just said sorry my (little angel dog) has never done anything like that before. This is the problem.

Yes, exactly this. I also had an experience like this when my kid was young and it totally alerted me to the dangers if off leash dogs. Kids can be really unpredictable and loud, and a lot of the very normal things kids do will be interesting, exciting, or scary for a dog. No one should have to worry that if their kids darts behind a tree, calls out in excitement, or falls off the slide.

Also, a lot of common dog names and common kid names are the same or similar now. Please don't take your dog named Luna or Charlie to a local park unleashed as the odds some parent or kid will yell your dog's name is a really really high.

Yes. This also explains away the whole 'no one was using the playground' argument. The playground is for children, and good parents aren't going to let their kids play if there are unleashed dogs. We also don't take our kids to the dog park, because the dog park is for unleashed dogs.

A place for everything, and everything in its place.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Brooklyn, and Prospect Park designates three off-leash areas before 9 am for dogs to run around. Sure, there are sometimes dog spats and once in a while dogs get bitten (my own included once), but I have never seen a "bloodbath." There are also runners, birders, and assorted random people in the park at that time, and we all somehow manage to rub along together. This is my dog's favorite part of the day and truly a godsend for me, since he is a very energetic 70 lb German Shepherd/Huskie mix, and I honestly don't think I could exercise him enough solely through my own efforts and my spouse's combined. I can't run around at top speed like he does with the other dogs!

I live in a city with a similar situation. It's been great for the dogs and by 9am, they are leashed. Works out well.

Well, the reason it works well is because you are following the rules. Show up at 11 with your unleashed dog while the local sitters are there with 10 preschoolers, and you've got a problem.

Sure, but some people seem to just be arguing that a dog should never be off leash outside their own home.

The aggressive dog owners are such jerks. They want everyone to walk around on high alert because they insist on keeping dogs that can literally kill around others. Sick and depraved

The thread-derailing anti-pit bullies are such jerks. They want everyone to share their paranoid take because they insist their paranoia is reality, despite copious evidence to the contrary being regularly provided (and ignored). Sick and deranged.

We get it. You hate pit bulls. If it's making it hard for you to focus, stay on task, and get through your day without unhinged ranting, you should seek help

Anonymous wrote:When my DD was 6 years old, we were in a relatively empty park pretending to play baseball. She would bat the pretend ball and then run the bases for a home run. We were having fun. Then an off-leash dog decided that this looked like a fun game. It came tearing after her barking and lunging and she screamed and ran faster. Of course, this really made the dog want to chase her. She finally fell to the ground screaming and the dog bit her. It was a small dog but she was also small. The whole thing was really terrifying. The owner just said sorry my (little angel dog) has never done anything like that before. This is the problem.

Yes, exactly this. I also had an experience like this when my kid was young and it totally alerted me to the dangers if off leash dogs. Kids can be really unpredictable and loud, and a lot of the very normal things kids do will be interesting, exciting, or scary for a dog. No one should have to worry that if their kids darts behind a tree, calls out in excitement, or falls off the slide.

Also, a lot of common dog names and common kid names are the same or similar now. Please don't take your dog named Luna or Charlie to a local park unleashed as the odds some parent or kid will yell your dog's name is a really really high.

When my DD was 6 years old, we were in a relatively empty park pretending to play baseball. She would bat the pretend ball and then run the bases for a home run. We were having fun. Then an off-leash dog decided that this looked like a fun game. It came tearing after her barking and lunging and she screamed and ran faster. Of course, this really made the dog want to chase her. She finally fell to the ground screaming and the dog bit her. It was a small dog but she was also small. The whole thing was really terrifying. The owner just said sorry my (little angel dog) has never done anything like that before. This is the problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Brooklyn, and Prospect Park designates three off-leash areas before 9 am for dogs to run around. Sure, there are sometimes dog spats and once in a while dogs get bitten (my own included once), but I have never seen a "bloodbath." There are also runners, birders, and assorted random people in the park at that time, and we all somehow manage to rub along together. This is my dog's favorite part of the day and truly a godsend for me, since he is a very energetic 70 lb German Shepherd/Huskie mix, and I honestly don't think I could exercise him enough solely through my own efforts and my spouse's combined. I can't run around at top speed like he does with the other dogs!

I live in a city with a similar situation. It's been great for the dogs and by 9am, they are leashed. Works out well.

Well, the reason it works well is because you are following the rules. Show up at 11 with your unleashed dog while the local sitters are there with 10 preschoolers, and you've got a problem.

Sure, but some people seem to just be arguing that a dog should never be off leash outside their own home.

The aggressive dog owners are such jerks. They want everyone to walk around on high alert because they insist on keeping dogs that can literally kill around others. Sick and depraved

Oh, BS! We're minding our business when your lawless jerk self let your "friendly" dogs in our space.

Mind your own business and there won't be a problem

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Brooklyn, and Prospect Park designates three off-leash areas before 9 am for dogs to run around. Sure, there are sometimes dog spats and once in a while dogs get bitten (my own included once), but I have never seen a "bloodbath." There are also runners, birders, and assorted random people in the park at that time, and we all somehow manage to rub along together. This is my dog's favorite part of the day and truly a godsend for me, since he is a very energetic 70 lb German Shepherd/Huskie mix, and I honestly don't think I could exercise him enough solely through my own efforts and my spouse's combined. I can't run around at top speed like he does with the other dogs!

I live in a city with a similar situation. It's been great for the dogs and by 9am, they are leashed. Works out well.

Well, the reason it works well is because you are following the rules. Show up at 11 with your unleashed dog while the local sitters are there with 10 preschoolers, and you've got a problem.

Sure, but some people seem to just be arguing that a dog should never be off leash outside their own home.

No, people are saying a dog should always be leashed where leash laws exist. If the law says you have to leash your dog at the park, you have to leash your dog at the park, even if you and 10 other dog owners just really, really want to let the dogs off leash.

A big part of the problem here that hasn't been mentioned is that people adopt dogs without thinking through how they will exercise their dog. So many people get dogs in the city now. Which is fine, great even. But you don't wait until you have an 80 lb, energetic, 2 yr old to figure out how to exercise him. You do it before you get a dig and you get a dig that fits your lifestyle. People are getting dogs, realizing it would be really nice if they could run off leash, and colonizing city parks for this purpose.

Previously, this issue was solved by people in cities getting dogs who could be adequately exercised on leash or at local dog runs (and being responsible enough to make sure there was a dog run close enough). The big, energetic breeds you see everywhere now used to be suburban and small town dogs, the kind of dog you'd get if you had a big yard, lived near big open spaces where dogs can run off leash, and had the lifestyle to get that dig outside regularly.

This is a problem that newer dog owners created for themselves and now want to offload onto their neighbors. Nope.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Brooklyn, and Prospect Park designates three off-leash areas before 9 am for dogs to run around. Sure, there are sometimes dog spats and once in a while dogs get bitten (my own included once), but I have never seen a "bloodbath." There are also runners, birders, and assorted random people in the park at that time, and we all somehow manage to rub along together. This is my dog's favorite part of the day and truly a godsend for me, since he is a very energetic 70 lb German Shepherd/Huskie mix, and I honestly don't think I could exercise him enough solely through my own efforts and my spouse's combined. I can't run around at top speed like he does with the other dogs!

I live in a city with a similar situation. It's been great for the dogs and by 9am, they are leashed. Works out well.

Well, the reason it works well is because you are following the rules. Show up at 11 with your unleashed dog while the local sitters are there with 10 preschoolers, and you've got a problem.

Sure, but some people seem to just be arguing that a dog should never be off leash outside their own home.

The aggressive dog owners are such jerks. They want everyone to walk around on high alert because they insist on keeping dogs that can literally kill around others. Sick and depraved

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dh and I do with our dog in a section of a park nearby our home, it’s an informal dog run that all of our neighbors with dogs use. They love the socialization.

But reading the other threads about dog attacks makes me think we should stop.

We have a golden retriever who would never hurt a flea, but I don’t want someone to think because I had my dog off leash that she deserved to be attacked.

OP the answer to your question is that yes, if your dog get attacked at this "informal" (meaning illegal) dog park while off leash, people will blame YOU for your dog being attacked. No one will blame your dog, who isn't making any of these [terrible] choices -- you are. And yes there will also be blame for the owner of the aggressive dog who attacks your dog. But it will be shared with you for doing an irresponsible and illegal thing and leaving your dog off leash.

You are contributing to a potentially dangerous situation by letting your dog off leash, even if your dog is not aggressive. This is on you.

I think this says more about others than it does OP. If your dog being too close to another dog could result in a ‘blood bath’ then that’s probably not a dog you should own. Why is this so hard for people to admit?

PP here and I don't even have a dog. Off leash dogs create dangerous situations because the owners can't control the dogs if something goes wrong. I have encountered off leash dogs where an aggressive dog is chasing another dog (who is presumably not aggressive since it's running away) and that is a stressful and dangerous situation for all involved. It's terrifying for kids and honestly pretty scary for adults too because it just feels out of control. These are animals.

You might think "oh that's just the fault of the owner of the aggressive dog" but most other people don't view it that way. Yeah, that person sucks but the other owner is also breaking the law and creating a situation where a full on dog fight can happen in a public park. And if the owner of the non-aggressive dog is letting their dog off leash, that creates a situation where the owner of the aggressive dog feels they can get away with it too. It's creating a permissive environment that people will try to take advantage of.

Leash laws exist for a reason and no ones dog is the exception. Just leash your dog. Even your sweet dog could knock over or terrify a little kid if they were startled or excited, so just put your dog on a leash and spare everyone the trouble.

And dog breed bans exist for a reason. Frankly there should be more of them, and shelters should be held liable for letting these aggressive dogs into communities with other pets and children.

You can't solve this problem with breed bans.

Even if you ban the breeds you want to ban, off leash dogs are still a problem because any dog can become aggressive and dangerous if abused or trained into it.

So if you want support for breed bans, that's a separate issue. Make that argument but make it somewhere else. All dogs should be leashed in public parks (and any public area) unless it's a designated dog run (NOT an "informal dog run" that is actually an unfenced part of a multi-use park). It's the law and people who let their dogs off leash in public spaces are putting other people, other dogs, AND their own dog at risk. They are breaking the law.

Leash. Your. Dog. There is no argument here.

No, you can’t fix every issue with breed bans. All dogs may bite. What you continually ignore is that some dog bites are worse than others. You can greatly reduce violent attacks with breed bans. Pretty sure my municipality knows better than you and that is why they banned certain breeds from densely packed housing.

You trust your municipality's judgment, but you're willing to disregard their laws?

Huh? I’m not ignoring any laws

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Brooklyn, and Prospect Park designates three off-leash areas before 9 am for dogs to run around. Sure, there are sometimes dog spats and once in a while dogs get bitten (my own included once), but I have never seen a "bloodbath." There are also runners, birders, and assorted random people in the park at that time, and we all somehow manage to rub along together. This is my dog's favorite part of the day and truly a godsend for me, since he is a very energetic 70 lb German Shepherd/Huskie mix, and I honestly don't think I could exercise him enough solely through my own efforts and my spouse's combined. I can't run around at top speed like he does with the other dogs!

I live in a city with a similar situation. It's been great for the dogs and by 9am, they are leashed. Works out well.

Well, the reason it works well is because you are following the rules. Show up at 11 with your unleashed dog while the local sitters are there with 10 preschoolers, and you've got a problem.

Sure, but some people seem to just be arguing that a dog should never be off leash outside their own home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Brooklyn, and Prospect Park designates three off-leash areas before 9 am for dogs to run around. Sure, there are sometimes dog spats and once in a while dogs get bitten (my own included once), but I have never seen a "bloodbath." There are also runners, birders, and assorted random people in the park at that time, and we all somehow manage to rub along together. This is my dog's favorite part of the day and truly a godsend for me, since he is a very energetic 70 lb German Shepherd/Huskie mix, and I honestly don't think I could exercise him enough solely through my own efforts and my spouse's combined. I can't run around at top speed like he does with the other dogs!

I live in a city with a similar situation. It's been great for the dogs and by 9am, they are leashed. Works out well.

Well, the reason it works well is because you are following the rules. Show up at 11 with your unleashed dog while the local sitters are there with 10 preschoolers, and you've got a problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dh and I do with our dog in a section of a park nearby our home, it’s an informal dog run that all of our neighbors with dogs use. They love the socialization.

But reading the other threads about dog attacks makes me think we should stop.

We have a golden retriever who would never hurt a flea, but I don’t want someone to think because I had my dog off leash that she deserved to be attacked.

OP the answer to your question is that yes, if your dog get attacked at this "informal" (meaning illegal) dog park while off leash, people will blame YOU for your dog being attacked. No one will blame your dog, who isn't making any of these [terrible] choices -- you are. And yes there will also be blame for the owner of the aggressive dog who attacks your dog. But it will be shared with you for doing an irresponsible and illegal thing and leaving your dog off leash.

You are contributing to a potentially dangerous situation by letting your dog off leash, even if your dog is not aggressive. This is on you.

Not Op, but my neighborhood has an informal dog park (well area of a park off to the side that owners convene at in the AM on weekdays when kids are not there) and we wouldn’t blame OP, assuming her breed wasn’t aggressive. We’d blame the person who had an aggressive dog. There are no signs banning dogs fwiw, but yes, it’s not an official dog park section.

I’m not sure why some people on here are getting so angry over people using public spaces, and I find it interesting that people can’t think in context. Running your dog with some other well behaved dogs in an area of a park that is empty at certain times of day is not something to get this excited about.

The problem is the dogs being off leash.

It's fine to gather with other dog owners in a park so your dogs can socialize. I don't know anyone who has a problem with this.

OP is wrong for letting her dog off leash (it's against the law) which will make it harder for her to get her dog away if someone tried to attack it. Also, by participating in a group of dog owners letting dogs off leash, this provides cover to someone with an aggressive dog who will do the same. Everyone is doing it, right? Well then what do you do about the idiots with the aggressive, untrained dog who also want to participate in the "informal dog park"? You can't do anything because you are engaging in the exact same behavior.

If everyone leashes their dog, none of these problems exist. Leash your dog.

The problem is people who insist on owning aggressive breed dogs.

Nope. Any dog breed can be aggressive. There will ALWAYS be bad dog owners (note: if you insist on letting your dog off leash in public spaces, you are one of the bad dog owners). Even if you get rid of all the pits, which I know is your goal, you will still have people who abuse their dogs, refuse to train them, refuse to fix them, fight them, etc. There is not some utopian future where dogs roam free off leash and it's fine because all "bad" dogs are gone.

I used to work with horses, also a domesticated animal. There are remarkably few very badly behaving or dangerous horses, and generally these horses are just put down. So the horse community has pretty much figured out how to handle the "bad horse" problem. But you don't see horse advocates suggesting that horses be allowed to wander around wherever because even the best, most docile horse in the world still poses a threat. It's an animal. It can be startled or frightened and it will respond with animal instinct. Horses are huge and can kill someone unintentionally just by running or kicking instinctually.

Well dogs are also animals. Even the best dog can harm someone, even just accidentally, if something happens that triggers an animal instinct to run or fight. Your sweet tempered, non-aggressive dog could knock over a toddler and give them a concussion if they were startled by a bug bite or a car backfiring or, yes, an aggressive dog coming after them.

So leash your dog. The problem is people who don't leash their dogs.

Yes, exactly.