Anonymous wrote:News flash —

What happens when mom says no to her son, but after “debate”, badgering, or temper tantrums, she gives in to her son’s demands?

Mom is showing her boy that women don’t really mean no, when they say no.

Think about it next time your son seems to not understand the first time you say no.

Yes, it's mom's fault.
Sir, take responsibility for your own actions.

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Anonymous wrote:PP above and I forgot to add that I was sexually assaulted multiple times in my late teens and 20s and didn’t even fully understand it was sexual assault until the last time (when I pressed charges and was ready to testify until last-minute plea deal). That’s why I have started so early with DD.

I’m sorry this happened to you.
I’m not really understanding a sexual assault that you “didn’t really understand was sexual assault” until it happened to you several times.
Obviously that sounds horrific. Very confusing though for the guy as well if he also didn’t realize that it was against your will? Just trying to figure out how that is communicated after the fact so that he is also aware that you now realize it was sexual assault.

I am not PP but a lot of people think it isn't assault if it isn't violent rape. Too drunk to consent, froze up, groped but no penetration - lots of people wrongly think these are not assault.

How is the guy going to know that you don’t want it if you don’t say no.

Unless she clearly says yes, it should not proceed. PERIOD. My friends with boys are teaching their boys this.

If they are drinking to the point of drunk and unable to consent it shoudl not go forward.

Boys aren't animals. It's time we stop treating them like they are not capable of knowing when there is consent.

It’s well past time to stop teaching girls that they can’t use their words. Stop infantilizing women and girls. Don’t teach your daughters that her safety is anyone’s responsibility but her own, for starters.

Gross!!! No I'm sorry, I'm just not going to accept the concept that women have to constantly shoot down advances and if they don't do so aggressively enough for the dumb h*rny male to understand she's giving him a blank check to rape her. Proposition declined. Thank you for illustrating the predatory male entitlement to sex though.

+100

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Anonymous wrote:PP above and I forgot to add that I was sexually assaulted multiple times in my late teens and 20s and didn’t even fully understand it was sexual assault until the last time (when I pressed charges and was ready to testify until last-minute plea deal). That’s why I have started so early with DD.

I’m sorry this happened to you.
I’m not really understanding a sexual assault that you “didn’t really understand was sexual assault” until it happened to you several times.
Obviously that sounds horrific. Very confusing though for the guy as well if he also didn’t realize that it was against your will? Just trying to figure out how that is communicated after the fact so that he is also aware that you now realize it was sexual assault.

I am not PP but a lot of people think it isn't assault if it isn't violent rape. Too drunk to consent, froze up, groped but no penetration - lots of people wrongly think these are not assault.

How is the guy going to know that you don’t want it if you don’t say no.

Unless she clearly says yes, it should not proceed. PERIOD. My friends with boys are teaching their boys this.

If they are drinking to the point of drunk and unable to consent it shoudl not go forward.

Boys aren't animals. It's time we stop treating them like they are not capable of knowing when there is consent.

It’s well past time to stop teaching girls that they can’t use their words. Stop infantilizing women and girls. Don’t teach your daughters that her safety is anyone’s responsibility but her own, for starters.

Nope. If she is drunk or roofied or scared, it's not OK to have sex with her. Yes it would be better if she hadn't got in that situation but the partner who proceeds without consent is responsible for that choice he is making. Stop acting like men can't help themselves. And stop acting like the goal should be anything except enthusiastic participation.

No one is saying it’s okay to rape someone so come off it.

You’re talking about teaching your daughter that it’s not her fault after she’s been victimized. Meanwhile, I’ll continue teaching my daughter how to drastically reduce her chances of being victimized in the first place.

It’s magical thinking to imagine that your daughter will someday live in world where no man will sexually assault her if she gets blackout drunk at a random party, because finally someone taught all those darn rapists that they’re not allowed to do that!

Seriously, do you hear yourself?

You responded to a thread about someone's actual assault, and about how a man could possibly know a woman didn't consent. Your response was "stop teaching girls that they can't use their words." Do you hear yourself?

The post directly above yours was about someone too drunk to consent. Is that ideal? No. Should you teach your DD not to get drunk like that, especially with people she doesn't know or trust? Of course, that's a great thing to teach. AND ALSO teach boys, and expect boys, not to have sex with someone who is too drunk to consent, regardless of whether she says no. Boys absolutely have responsibility for what they do with their own bodies and whether they choose to have sex with someone who didn't clearly consent.

Stop.Being.Stupid.

You can’t control what other people do or don’t teach their sons. Just like you can’t control whether or not your son gives a sh!t. Worry about teaching your daughter to protect herself and not to rely on the kindness of strangers. The only person she can count on to watch out for her safety is herself.

Stop.Infantilizing.Girls.

You are revolting and offensive. It is not "infantilizing" girls to expect boys to respect women. To gain consent. To learn to accept no. I'm all for teaching girls about risks but that has been going on for generations. It's time for BOYS and parents of boys to play a role here. Failing to do that is infantilizing boys, if anything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP above and I forgot to add that I was sexually assaulted multiple times in my late teens and 20s and didn’t even fully understand it was sexual assault until the last time (when I pressed charges and was ready to testify until last-minute plea deal). That’s why I have started so early with DD.

I’m sorry this happened to you.
I’m not really understanding a sexual assault that you “didn’t really understand was sexual assault” until it happened to you several times.
Obviously that sounds horrific. Very confusing though for the guy as well if he also didn’t realize that it was against your will? Just trying to figure out how that is communicated after the fact so that he is also aware that you now realize it was sexual assault.

I am not PP but a lot of people think it isn't assault if it isn't violent rape. Too drunk to consent, froze up, groped but no penetration - lots of people wrongly think these are not assault.

How is the guy going to know that you don’t want it if you don’t say no.

Every guy should already know that going up to someone and groping them is wrong.
I get that you're talking about a specific ongoing relationship here - and I agree it isn't all on the guy in this type of situation; but let's not believe that men never know what they're doing is wrong unless the woman is specifically telling him.

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t considering one experience “harassment”

Be is from cat calling in a street, a random comment at a party, a homeless man exposing himself on the street. Perhaps it meets the definition, but this shouldn’t be traumatizing. Just move on.

Harassment is if the same person repeatedly gives you unwanted attention after you have explicitly told them to stop.

I think this is interesting. I used to really think this and believe this and didn't really even register all the small things men did. The guy at work who blatantly looks you up and down in a lewd manner and makes a comment. The guy at work who puts both his hands on your shoulders while talking to you "make a point". The guy at the regular coffee shop you go to who comes out from the back to stare every time you are in line so eventually you just go to another coffee shop. Unwelcome looks, touches, comments. All of these are actual examples and I have so many more. I'm sure we all do. I had a guy witness one of these things and he acknowledged it later and asked me if I was okay. I was stunned. We all just harden ourselves to it and don't even speak up or think twice about it. It's sad really.

We have been conditioned to accept a certain amount of sexual harassment as just part of life. That’s why some of these women say they’ve never been harassed. They’ve overlooked things because “boys willl be boys,” and it’s just something everyone lives with. Just this very morning, my teenaged dd told me that when she was in 6th grade, she complained to the male gym teacher that a couple male classmates were saying they wanted to touch her tits. He told her that boys are just going to say stupid things and it’s only a problem if they actually touch you. This was 5 years ago, post Me Too.

Agree. My DD recently told me that in elementary school, some boys would make sexual noises and sexual comments towards her and her friends. She didn’t tell me at the time. I just found out now (she’s a senior in high school).

Unfortunately, there is truth to the "boys will be boys" and "immature men will be immature men" thing. Are we really going to deny that males have some specific innate sexual instincts that are different from womens'? The problem isn't that per se; it's the letting it pass and expecting it and excusing it as such. The result would have been different (hopefully) if that gym teacher were a woman or even a man with the attitude that such behavior is inappropriate and wrong - they would have at least had a strong chat with those boys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t considering one experience “harassment”

Be is from cat calling in a street, a random comment at a party, a homeless man exposing himself on the street. Perhaps it meets the definition, but this shouldn’t be traumatizing. Just move on.

Harassment is if the same person repeatedly gives you unwanted attention after you have explicitly told them to stop.

Do you think that something has to cross the line to illegality for it to be a problem? Because you seem awfully hung up on the legal definition of harassment in the workplace, as opposed to a widely-acceptable definition of sexual harassment that does not necessarily warrant an arrest. Legality is not the same as morality.

This person's definition of harassment is made up. There is no "requirement" that you've told the person to stop and they don't stop. The actual definition in the dictionary:

behavior characterized by the making of unwelcome and inappropriate sexual remarks or physical advances in a workplace or other professional or social situation.

So is a catcall while walking down the street or being leered at by someone several seats away on a public bus a "social situation?"

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t considering one experience “harassment”

Be is from cat calling in a street, a random comment at a party, a homeless man exposing himself on the street. Perhaps it meets the definition, but this shouldn’t be traumatizing. Just move on.

Harassment is if the same person repeatedly gives you unwanted attention after you have explicitly told them to stop.

I think this is interesting. I used to really think this and believe this and didn't really even register all the small things men did. The guy at work who blatantly looks you up and down in a lewd manner and makes a comment. The guy at work who puts both his hands on your shoulders while talking to you "make a point". The guy at the regular coffee shop you go to who comes out from the back to stare every time you are in line so eventually you just go to another coffee shop. Unwelcome looks, touches, comments. All of these are actual examples and I have so many more. I'm sure we all do. I had a guy witness one of these things and he acknowledged it later and asked me if I was okay. I was stunned. We all just harden ourselves to it and don't even speak up or think twice about it. It's sad really.

We have been conditioned to accept a certain amount of sexual harassment as just part of life. That’s why some of these women say they’ve never been harassed. They’ve overlooked things because “boys willl be boys,” and it’s just something everyone lives with. Just this very morning, my teenaged dd told me that when she was in 6th grade, she complained to the male gym teacher that a couple male classmates were saying they wanted to touch her tits. He told her that boys are just going to say stupid things and it’s only a problem if they actually touch you. This was 5 years ago, post Me Too.

Yep agree. I call BS on the “never experienced “ posters. I have no doubt they believe it and maybe a rare minority really have not. But that is in large part bc we are conditioned to accept the smaller slights, harassment, and disrespect.

I don't think it's that we accept these things. We just don't actually call every offender out every time. Many of the incidents people are talking about in this post are one-time occurrences from strangers in bars, walking down the street, on a bus or train, etc. I'm not going to get into a confrontation with these guys and I would not encourage my daughter to, either. These days, yes, it would be great if more of the incidents are called out when it's feasible and safe to do so -- like the example a previous commenter gave about the bus masturbator and the woman taking the young girl to a seat by the driver and telling the driver what was going on.

It's not that we're "accepting" the minor slights and disrespect - we endure them and move on. Continual offenses in the same environment or by the same individual are different and are absolutely more likely to be called out and not tolerated.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a 52 year old mom of two daughters 18 and 20.

None of us have ever had to deal with sexual harassment. Calm down.

Same.

Male trolls.

I’m a 50 year old woman. Not everyone has the same experiences or carries the same burdens. It might not be fair but that’s how it is.

I’m sure this comment won’t land well but you must be unattractive. Any thin reasonably attractive woman is going to get some unwanted attention in their life.

I’m the PP. I don’t think attractiveness level is a determining factor.

But, I’ve always maintained a healthy weight and work out regularly. And I’m Latina so I have a baseline of attractiveness, at least in my opinion. 😁

Please consider being more inclusive and use LatinX instead.

Is this a serious comment?
She's Latina and she's not allowed to use that terminology?
Not all people from the "LatinX" category approve/like/use that terminology.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t considering one experience “harassment”

Be is from cat calling in a street, a random comment at a party, a homeless man exposing himself on the street. Perhaps it meets the definition, but this shouldn’t be traumatizing. Just move on.

Harassment is if the same person repeatedly gives you unwanted attention after you have explicitly told them to stop.

+1
A person who repeatedly makes one-time offenses to different people would imo, however, make that person a sexual harasser. But that's usually part and parcel of just being a sexist jackass.

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Anonymous wrote:https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics

These stats are alarming. I base conversations with my children around this and ways to protect yourself. It’s so common to be sexually assaulted.

Interesting what is considered sexual harassment. I saw a crazy homeless guy near the West Falls Church metro who was deliberately exposing himself to anyone who could see it. I did see him and yuck. I don’t consider myself a victim of sexual harassment. But, according to the study’s definitions, I would be counted.

What would you call it?

Sexual harassment is unwanted sexual behavior that makes someone feel uncomfortable, scared, or humiliated.

I don’t know if I would call it anything other than witnessing someone else’s mental illness.

I’m also more inclined to think “meh” about privates. I don’t find it shocking, just situationally inappropriate and, in this case, yuck.

DP. I would still call that sexual harassment. Maybe it is different in degree from something like sexual harassment from a supervisor at work in how it affects your life. You can walk away from it the mentally ill man exposing himself on the street, but not from a boss who is pressuring you into a relationship. That scenario on the street would still put me on guard though and make me scared if I were alone, though, and I would be calling the cops in case that mentally ill man takes it a step further and attacks someone.

DP. Situations are vastly different and I think the problem is with the definition of sexual harassment. Is any of it good behavior? No; but there's a difference between lewd, rude, gross and unwanted; and being put in a position of pressure, imminent danger, or ongoing unsolicited and lewd or rude offenses.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a 52 year old mom of two daughters 18 and 20.

None of us have ever had to deal with sexual harassment. Calm down.

Same.

Same here. I think it makes 5 of us on this thread so far. I was beautiful in my teens/20s/30s and always dated very attractive, successful men (and then married one --a physician). But I was never really harassed--not even really cat called.

I don't really exude sexuality or vulnerability. I've never dressed provocatively or even very femininely. I'm not saying that women should change their dress to avoid harassment but I've always wondered why I never got harassed why other women say they were continually and I assume it must have had something to do with my clothing. I otherwise don't know.

I think people have different tolerances and perceptions of "sexual harassment."
For example, some people with heightened sensitivities today can find traditional/innocent flirtations "harassing." Some are fine with those same "flirtations" - if it's someone they like/are interested in; but consider it harassment if it comes from someone they don't want the attention from.
Then there are some who probably don't consider one construction worker whistling as they walk by a construction site one time to be harassment, whereas another woman would. Or being leered at - harassment? or just creepy?

@dannah_eve on instagram I use this a lot. As my daughter started to prepare for college, I realized just how vulnerable and naive she was and use this account frequently to initiate discussions. She was so sick and tired of me bringing up the what ifs but better safe than sorry

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP above and I forgot to add that I was sexually assaulted multiple times in my late teens and 20s and didn’t even fully understand it was sexual assault until the last time (when I pressed charges and was ready to testify until last-minute plea deal). That’s why I have started so early with DD.

I’m sorry this happened to you.
I’m not really understanding a sexual assault that you “didn’t really understand was sexual assault” until it happened to you several times.
Obviously that sounds horrific. Very confusing though for the guy as well if he also didn’t realize that it was against your will? Just trying to figure out how that is communicated after the fact so that he is also aware that you now realize it was sexual assault.

I am not PP but a lot of people think it isn't assault if it isn't violent rape. Too drunk to consent, froze up, groped but no penetration - lots of people wrongly think these are not assault.

How is the guy going to know that you don’t want it if you don’t say no.

Unless she clearly says yes, it should not proceed. PERIOD. My friends with boys are teaching their boys this.

If they are drinking to the point of drunk and unable to consent it shoudl not go forward.

Boys aren't animals. It's time we stop treating them like they are not capable of knowing when there is consent.

It’s well past time to stop teaching girls that they can’t use their words. Stop infantilizing women and girls. Don’t teach your daughters that her safety is anyone’s responsibility but her own, for starters.

Nope. If she is drunk or roofied or scared, it's not OK to have sex with her. Yes it would be better if she hadn't got in that situation but the partner who proceeds without consent is responsible for that choice he is making. Stop acting like men can't help themselves. And stop acting like the goal should be anything except enthusiastic participation.

No one is saying it’s okay to rape someone so come off it.

You’re talking about teaching your daughter that it’s not her fault after she’s been victimized. Meanwhile, I’ll continue teaching my daughter how to drastically reduce her chances of being victimized in the first place.

It’s magical thinking to imagine that your daughter will someday live in world where no man will sexually assault her if she gets blackout drunk at a random party, because finally someone taught all those darn rapists that they’re not allowed to do that!

Seriously, do you hear yourself?

You responded to a thread about someone's actual assault, and about how a man could possibly know a woman didn't consent. Your response was "stop teaching girls that they can't use their words." Do you hear yourself?

The post directly above yours was about someone too drunk to consent. Is that ideal? No. Should you teach your DD not to get drunk like that, especially with people she doesn't know or trust? Of course, that's a great thing to teach. AND ALSO teach boys, and expect boys, not to have sex with someone who is too drunk to consent, regardless of whether she says no. Boys absolutely have responsibility for what they do with their own bodies and whether they choose to have sex with someone who didn't clearly consent.

Stop.Being.Stupid.

You can’t control what other people do or don’t teach their sons. Just like you can’t control whether or not your son gives a sh!t. Worry about teaching your daughter to protect herself and not to rely on the kindness of strangers. The only person she can count on to watch out for her safety is herself.

Stop.Infantilizing.Girls.

The first step to changing culture is all women getting on the same page and all of us agreeing 100% of consent falls on whoever is initiating. This hem and hawing gives rapists oxygen to rape and it gives the police justification to blow off complainants.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP above and I forgot to add that I was sexually assaulted multiple times in my late teens and 20s and didn’t even fully understand it was sexual assault until the last time (when I pressed charges and was ready to testify until last-minute plea deal). That’s why I have started so early with DD.

I’m sorry this happened to you.
I’m not really understanding a sexual assault that you “didn’t really understand was sexual assault” until it happened to you several times.
Obviously that sounds horrific. Very confusing though for the guy as well if he also didn’t realize that it was against your will? Just trying to figure out how that is communicated after the fact so that he is also aware that you now realize it was sexual assault.

I am not PP but a lot of people think it isn't assault if it isn't violent rape. Too drunk to consent, froze up, groped but no penetration - lots of people wrongly think these are not assault.

How is the guy going to know that you don’t want it if you don’t say no.

Unless she clearly says yes, it should not proceed. PERIOD. My friends with boys are teaching their boys this.

If they are drinking to the point of drunk and unable to consent it shoudl not go forward.

Boys aren't animals. It's time we stop treating them like they are not capable of knowing when there is consent.

It’s well past time to stop teaching girls that they can’t use their words. Stop infantilizing women and girls. Don’t teach your daughters that her safety is anyone’s responsibility but her own, for starters.

Nope. If she is drunk or roofied or scared, it's not OK to have sex with her. Yes it would be better if she hadn't got in that situation but the partner who proceeds without consent is responsible for that choice he is making. Stop acting like men can't help themselves. And stop acting like the goal should be anything except enthusiastic participation.

No one is saying it’s okay to rape someone so come off it.

You’re talking about teaching your daughter that it’s not her fault after she’s been victimized. Meanwhile, I’ll continue teaching my daughter how to drastically reduce her chances of being victimized in the first place.

It’s magical thinking to imagine that your daughter will someday live in world where no man will sexually assault her if she gets blackout drunk at a random party, because finally someone taught all those darn rapists that they’re not allowed to do that!

Seriously, do you hear yourself?

You responded to a thread about someone's actual assault, and about how a man could possibly know a woman didn't consent. Your response was "stop teaching girls that they can't use their words." Do you hear yourself?

The post directly above yours was about someone too drunk to consent. Is that ideal? No. Should you teach your DD not to get drunk like that, especially with people she doesn't know or trust? Of course, that's a great thing to teach. AND ALSO teach boys, and expect boys, not to have sex with someone who is too drunk to consent, regardless of whether she says no. Boys absolutely have responsibility for what they do with their own bodies and whether they choose to have sex with someone who didn't clearly consent.

Stop.Being.Stupid.

You can’t control what other people do or don’t teach their sons. Just like you can’t control whether or not your son gives a sh!t. Worry about teaching your daughter to protect herself and not to rely on the kindness of strangers. The only person she can count on to watch out for her safety is herself.

Stop.Infantilizing.Girls.

Regardless of the sexes of one’s children, it’s equally important to teach all of them how to protect themselves from others as well as what is and isn’t appropriate for them to do to others. That’s empowering, not infantilizing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP above and I forgot to add that I was sexually assaulted multiple times in my late teens and 20s and didn’t even fully understand it was sexual assault until the last time (when I pressed charges and was ready to testify until last-minute plea deal). That’s why I have started so early with DD.

I’m sorry this happened to you.
I’m not really understanding a sexual assault that you “didn’t really understand was sexual assault” until it happened to you several times.
Obviously that sounds horrific. Very confusing though for the guy as well if he also didn’t realize that it was against your will? Just trying to figure out how that is communicated after the fact so that he is also aware that you now realize it was sexual assault.

I am not PP but a lot of people think it isn't assault if it isn't violent rape. Too drunk to consent, froze up, groped but no penetration - lots of people wrongly think these are not assault.

How is the guy going to know that you don’t want it if you don’t say no.

Unless she clearly says yes, it should not proceed. PERIOD. My friends with boys are teaching their boys this.

If they are drinking to the point of drunk and unable to consent it shoudl not go forward.

Boys aren't animals. It's time we stop treating them like they are not capable of knowing when there is consent.

It’s well past time to stop teaching girls that they can’t use their words. Stop infantilizing women and girls. Don’t teach your daughters that her safety is anyone’s responsibility but her own, for starters.

Nope. If she is drunk or roofied or scared, it's not OK to have sex with her. Yes it would be better if she hadn't got in that situation but the partner who proceeds without consent is responsible for that choice he is making. Stop acting like men can't help themselves. And stop acting like the goal should be anything except enthusiastic participation.

No one is saying it’s okay to rape someone so come off it.

You’re talking about teaching your daughter that it’s not her fault after she’s been victimized. Meanwhile, I’ll continue teaching my daughter how to drastically reduce her chances of being victimized in the first place.

It’s magical thinking to imagine that your daughter will someday live in world where no man will sexually assault her if she gets blackout drunk at a random party, because finally someone taught all those darn rapists that they’re not allowed to do that!

Seriously, do you hear yourself?

You responded to a thread about someone's actual assault, and about how a man could possibly know a woman didn't consent. Your response was "stop teaching girls that they can't use their words." Do you hear yourself?

The post directly above yours was about someone too drunk to consent. Is that ideal? No. Should you teach your DD not to get drunk like that, especially with people she doesn't know or trust? Of course, that's a great thing to teach. AND ALSO teach boys, and expect boys, not to have sex with someone who is too drunk to consent, regardless of whether she says no. Boys absolutely have responsibility for what they do with their own bodies and whether they choose to have sex with someone who didn't clearly consent.

Stop.Being.Stupid.

You can’t control what other people do or don’t teach their sons. Just like you can’t control whether or not your son gives a sh!t. Worry about teaching your daughter to protect herself and not to rely on the kindness of strangers. The only person she can count on to watch out for her safety is herself.

Stop.Infantilizing.Girls.

Stop excusing boys.

He doesn't just fall into a vagina, whoops, because no one said "no."

I can't control anyone, but I certainly expect not to be slapped in the face at a party, and if a man slaps me in the face, he is responsible for that action he took. Not sure why anyone should have a lower standard for sexual assault.