Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:90% of the child-related volunteer mental/emotional/physical labor is done by moms and the newer generation of moms are not into doing free labor that is being taken for granted and baked in to the school budgets. They no longer need or want that validation.

This is pretty true. The reason men aren't very involved in PTA is that it's very little tangible and financial reward for time spent. You have to see and value the intangible community-building aspect of it.

I was asked to step in and run a PTA craft fair fundraiser with six weeks notice. The financial return to the PTA was fairly equivalent to what the women leaders involved would have earned in hourly billings as freelance consultants, ad agency, graphic designers. We probably could have raised just as much money with a straight appeal for cash donations. I did the work because cancelling would have cost the PTA money. But I would rather have just donated. It cost me two days vacation and about a work week of personal time. Some people think craft fairs are a fun community activity. I don't. We are not doing it this year because nobody stepped up to kick it off. We will fundraise a different way or spend less. So we don't give out free snacks during exam week and tickets to the after-graduation event cost more. The world will keep turning. I do PTA so I can get in front of administrators about academic concerns.

At least you admitted it.

I’m a DP but I don’t understand what’s wrong with doing PTA in order to engage the admin? Do you think PTA volunteers should be solely motivated by a love of decorating classroom doors?

Women can also be misogynists. Even nice white “feminist” women.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

But do you hear what some of us are saying? We will come out of respect (and yes, because it's fun) but we don't necessarily think its' worth your time, either -- but you seem to. This whole martyr, "it takes a village and our KIDS NEED THIS" -- many of us don't agree with the latter in caps

exactly… when the events start to lose the plot, then stop complaining that it’s so much work and you feel exploited. kids would be happy with a potluck picnic with cornhole in the park.

But nobody wants to plan those events anymore. They are over planned and too unwieldy. So the volunteers quit. It’s not the simple event of yore.

trust me, everyone would show up for a potluck picnic in the park with cornhole and adult beverages. or order a bunch of pizzas.

And eat food cooked in stranger’s kitchens? Surely you jest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:90% of the child-related volunteer mental/emotional/physical labor is done by moms and the newer generation of moms are not into doing free labor that is being taken for granted and baked in to the school budgets. They no longer need or want that validation.

This is pretty true. The reason men aren't very involved in PTA is that it's very little tangible and financial reward for time spent. You have to see and value the intangible community-building aspect of it.

I was asked to step in and run a PTA craft fair fundraiser with six weeks notice. The financial return to the PTA was fairly equivalent to what the women leaders involved would have earned in hourly billings as freelance consultants, ad agency, graphic designers. We probably could have raised just as much money with a straight appeal for cash donations. I did the work because cancelling would have cost the PTA money. But I would rather have just donated. It cost me two days vacation and about a work week of personal time. Some people think craft fairs are a fun community activity. I don't. We are not doing it this year because nobody stepped up to kick it off. We will fundraise a different way or spend less. So we don't give out free snacks during exam week and tickets to the after-graduation event cost more. The world will keep turning. I do PTA so I can get in front of administrators about academic concerns.

At least you admitted it.

I’m a DP but I don’t understand what’s wrong with doing PTA in order to engage the admin? Do you think PTA volunteers should be solely motivated by a love of decorating classroom doors?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:90% of the child-related volunteer mental/emotional/physical labor is done by moms and the newer generation of moms are not into doing free labor that is being taken for granted and baked in to the school budgets. They no longer need or want that validation.

This is pretty true. The reason men aren't very involved in PTA is that it's very little tangible and financial reward for time spent. You have to see and value the intangible community-building aspect of it.

I was asked to step in and run a PTA craft fair fundraiser with six weeks notice. The financial return to the PTA was fairly equivalent to what the women leaders involved would have earned in hourly billings as freelance consultants, ad agency, graphic designers. We probably could have raised just as much money with a straight appeal for cash donations. I did the work because cancelling would have cost the PTA money. But I would rather have just donated. It cost me two days vacation and about a work week of personal time. Some people think craft fairs are a fun community activity. I don't. We are not doing it this year because nobody stepped up to kick it off. We will fundraise a different way or spend less. So we don't give out free snacks during exam week and tickets to the after-graduation event cost more. The world will keep turning. I do PTA so I can get in front of administrators about academic concerns.

At least you admitted it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:90% of the child-related volunteer mental/emotional/physical labor is done by moms and the newer generation of moms are not into doing free labor that is being taken for granted and baked in to the school budgets. They no longer need or want that validation.

This is pretty true. The reason men aren't very involved in PTA is that it's very little tangible and financial reward for time spent. You have to see and value the intangible community-building aspect of it.

I was asked to step in and run a PTA craft fair fundraiser with six weeks notice. The financial return to the PTA was fairly equivalent to what the women leaders involved would have earned in hourly billings as freelance consultants, ad agency, graphic designers. We probably could have raised just as much money with a straight appeal for cash donations. I did the work because cancelling would have cost the PTA money. But I would rather have just donated. It cost me two days vacation and about a work week of personal time. Some people think craft fairs are a fun community activity. I don't. We are not doing it this year because nobody stepped up to kick it off. We will fundraise a different way or spend less. So we don't give out free snacks during exam week and tickets to the after-graduation event cost more. The world will keep turning. I do PTA so I can get in front of administrators about academic concerns.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

But do you hear what some of us are saying? We will come out of respect (and yes, because it's fun) but we don't necessarily think its' worth your time, either -- but you seem to. This whole martyr, "it takes a village and our KIDS NEED THIS" -- many of us don't agree with the latter in caps

exactly… when the events start to lose the plot, then stop complaining that it’s so much work and you feel exploited. kids would be happy with a potluck picnic with cornhole in the park.

But nobody wants to plan those events anymore. They are over planned and too unwieldy. So the volunteers quit. It’s not the simple event of yore.

trust me, everyone would show up for a potluck picnic in the park with cornhole and adult beverages. or order a bunch of pizzas.

Anonymous wrote:90% of the child-related volunteer mental/emotional/physical labor is done by moms and the newer generation of moms are not into doing free labor that is being taken for granted and baked in to the school budgets. They no longer need or want that validation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

But do you hear what some of us are saying? We will come out of respect (and yes, because it's fun) but we don't necessarily think its' worth your time, either -- but you seem to. This whole martyr, "it takes a village and our KIDS NEED THIS" -- many of us don't agree with the latter in caps

exactly… when the events start to lose the plot, then stop complaining that it’s so much work and you feel exploited. kids would be happy with a potluck picnic with cornhole in the park.

But nobody wants to plan those events anymore. They are over planned and too unwieldy. So the volunteers quit. It’s not the simple event of yore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

But do you hear what some of us are saying? We will come out of respect (and yes, because it's fun) but we don't necessarily think its' worth your time, either -- but you seem to. This whole martyr, "it takes a village and our KIDS NEED THIS" -- many of us don't agree with the latter in caps

exactly… when the events start to lose the plot, then stop complaining that it’s so much work and you feel exploited. kids would be happy with a potluck picnic with cornhole in the park.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

But do you hear what some of us are saying? We will come out of respect (and yes, because it's fun) but we don't necessarily think its' worth your time, either -- but you seem to. This whole martyr, "it takes a village and our KIDS NEED THIS" -- many of us don't agree with the latter in caps

Anonymous wrote:Volunteering is no longer fun in my opinion. When I first started volunteering parents weren’t given plenty of leeway and the events were disorganized chaos but the end product was lighthearted fun for the kids. Today every activity is over regulated and no one has any actual fun. There are usually a couple of parents trying to outdo one another with their Etsy creations (most of which ends up in the trash) or some dictator with a list of rules about food, participation, themes and activities. No thanks, I already have a job that pays me.

Anonymous wrote:Lots of make-work for hard-driving parents.

Our former PTA president was a physician.

I had to quit volunteering as a class parent (the year we had 3) when I had to have numerous conference calls (this was way before Zoom and Covid) just to plan TA Week.

Very much a, “Hey! Let’s put on a show!” mentality with lots of hyper involved parents trying to outdo one another.