Anonymous wrote:We just had our second child and are starting to feel some financial pressures. We have been comfortable but I’d like to be a little more budget conscious. To that end DW and I sat down to examine our monthly spending and I am surprised at how much she spends on a routine basis. When I ask her to cut back she said all of this is “normal” spending for a woman her age. Of course I’m aware women’s things tend to cost more but she spends so much more than I do and I wonder how common this is. For example she spends -

200/month gym membership
100/month on two manicures / pedicures
200 every 3-4 months on hair cuts
200-300 every couple months on skin products
Once a year massage or spa , around 200
Every couple of months I see 300-600 on the credit card for clothes, she says some of this gets returned and that she needs more clothes recently due to size changes of having two kids in past 4 years
Once or twice a year she makes a bigger purchase between 500-1000, could be bag, jewelry, shoes, clothing. It’s usually a birthday or anniversary gift.
50-100 /month on coffee or lunch - this is just for her , not family take out or eating out
She also likes to buy clothes frequently for the kids but I’ll leave that out.
These are the main recurring categories we identified.

In comparison, I spend 60/month on the gym, rarely buy clothes or personal products, and spend less than 100 a year on haircuts.

Current HHI is 250k. We live in Bethesda. I think it’s important to add she stopped working after we had our first kid. Our HHI was 450k when she was working. She does plan to go back to work after the second kid goes to preschool around 2 or 3 but we are not sure she will go back to the same salary level.

She’s a wonderful, engaged mother and I do appreciate that she always looks really good. She does a lot around the house too and for our general family life logistics and planning. I don’t want to micromanage her spending. We can afford it but I’d like her to cut down at least while we are on one income so we can save more at the end of each month. What would be a reasonable ask here? How much are other women of similar HHI spending on a monthly basis?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How did you grow up? I wasn't raised buying designer things or good skincare so I tend to be frugal, but I am also realistic... My thoughts as a SAHM with DH's salary of $350k:

• 200/month gym membership
Nope, you can join a cheaper gym. I workout for free at home.

• 100/month on two manicures / pedicures
This is crazy. You can do your nails yourself. And overdone hands is passé and cheap anyway. Plus, toxic.

• 200 every 3-4 months on hair cuts
This seems fine to me. You value her looks and this is something she can't do herself. A good haircut makes a big difference. I spend $300 2x/year on my hair. I wear it long so it doesn't need much maintenance and color my greys myself in between.

•200-300 every couple months on skin products
Depends on what "every couple months" means. I buy the pricey stuff my derm recommends and my skin looks better at 45 than it did at 35. I spend roughly $1,000 year on products. Again, if you value her looks it might be the norm...

• Once a year massage or spa , around 200
Once a year is fine. I never get them, but would love to be gifted one every now and then.

• Every couple of months I see 300-600 on the credit card for clothes, she says some of this gets returned and that she needs more clothes recently due to size changes of having two kids in past 4 years
-Eh, she isn't going into an office, she probably doesn't need to be spending this much. I "get dressed" every day, meaning I don't wear schlubby tights or whatever, but I still only spend about $600/year on clothes.

• Once or twice a year she makes a bigger purchase between 500-1000, could be bag, jewelry, shoes, clothing. It’s usually a birthday or anniversary gift.
I don't have the lifestyle of fine jewelry or bags so this can probably take a pause while she's at home. But doesn't she clear a 1k purchase with you? And don't you do the same with her? Me and DH do.

• 50-100 /month on coffee or lunch - this is just for her , not family take out or eating out
- If this is her only entertainment, let it go. She's not doing $200 dinners with friends or concerts or whatever. This probably keeps her sane.

I think some easy fat to cut would be her clothing budget, manicures, and gym membership. But really, I don't think you can tell her this. You should add up her spending and yours. Take a deep look at it and figure out what your goals are as a team.

It also sounds like she may buy a lot of clothes for the kids? How expensive are they? Kids grow quickly, but we managed to be pretty frugal by swapping with friends and buying cheap stuff. It doesn't need to be well-made if they will barf on it and only wear it for 5 months. Now, if your values are not to buy fast fashion, then hand-me-downs are great too.

But also, I wouldn't let everything slide and count on her going back to work soon...

You sound like you are LMC and destined to stay there. OP's wife clearly has normal habits for a MC person. The DIY approach you suggest looks DIY on a person, just like it does on a house.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How did you grow up? I wasn't raised buying designer things or good skincare so I tend to be frugal, but I am also realistic... My thoughts as a SAHM with DH's salary of $350k:

• 200/month gym membership
Nope, you can join a cheaper gym. I workout for free at home.

• 100/month on two manicures / pedicures
This is crazy. You can do your nails yourself. And overdone hands is passé and cheap anyway. Plus, toxic.

• 200 every 3-4 months on hair cuts
This seems fine to me. You value her looks and this is something she can't do herself. A good haircut makes a big difference. I spend $300 2x/year on my hair. I wear it long so it doesn't need much maintenance and color my greys myself in between.

•200-300 every couple months on skin products
Depends on what "every couple months" means. I buy the pricey stuff my derm recommends and my skin looks better at 45 than it did at 35. I spend roughly $1,000 year on products. Again, if you value her looks it might be the norm...

• Once a year massage or spa , around 200
Once a year is fine. I never get them, but would love to be gifted one every now and then.

• Every couple of months I see 300-600 on the credit card for clothes, she says some of this gets returned and that she needs more clothes recently due to size changes of having two kids in past 4 years
-Eh, she isn't going into an office, she probably doesn't need to be spending this much. I "get dressed" every day, meaning I don't wear schlubby tights or whatever, but I still only spend about $600/year on clothes.

• Once or twice a year she makes a bigger purchase between 500-1000, could be bag, jewelry, shoes, clothing. It’s usually a birthday or anniversary gift.
I don't have the lifestyle of fine jewelry or bags so this can probably take a pause while she's at home. But doesn't she clear a 1k purchase with you? And don't you do the same with her? Me and DH do.

• 50-100 /month on coffee or lunch - this is just for her , not family take out or eating out
- If this is her only entertainment, let it go. She's not doing $200 dinners with friends or concerts or whatever. This probably keeps her sane.

I think some easy fat to cut would be her clothing budget, manicures, and gym membership. But really, I don't think you can tell her this. You should add up her spending and yours. Take a deep look at it and figure out what your goals are as a team.

It also sounds like she may buy a lot of clothes for the kids? How expensive are they? Kids grow quickly, but we managed to be pretty frugal by swapping with friends and buying cheap stuff. It doesn't need to be well-made if they will barf on it and only wear it for 5 months. Now, if your values are not to buy fast fashion, then hand-me-downs are great too.

But also, I wouldn't let everything slide and count on her going back to work soon...

You sound like you are LMC and destined to stay there. OP's wife clearly has normal habits for a MC person. The DIY approach you suggest looks DIY on a person, just like it does on a house.

Anonymous wrote:We each have personal spending budgets of 700/mo. All my personal spending fits into that, as does my spouses. This also includes take out for the kids/family, because we have a person responsible for every meal and its their choice to "treat" everyone or cook - its not just Mom's duty to cook. Our gym/club membership is 700/mo for the entire family - this includes pool/swim team, yoga, weights, cardio, pickle ball, etc. Barre classes are included, but neither spouse or I do them and it would be equally hilarious to see me in pilates.

HHI is higher than yours, so just adjust downward.

Anonymous wrote:How did you grow up? I wasn't raised buying designer things or good skincare so I tend to be frugal, but I am also realistic... My thoughts as a SAHM with DH's salary of $350k:

• 200/month gym membership
Nope, you can join a cheaper gym. I workout for free at home.

• 100/month on two manicures / pedicures
This is crazy. You can do your nails yourself. And overdone hands is passé and cheap anyway. Plus, toxic.

• 200 every 3-4 months on hair cuts
This seems fine to me. You value her looks and this is something she can't do herself. A good haircut makes a big difference. I spend $300 2x/year on my hair. I wear it long so it doesn't need much maintenance and color my greys myself in between.

•200-300 every couple months on skin products
Depends on what "every couple months" means. I buy the pricey stuff my derm recommends and my skin looks better at 45 than it did at 35. I spend roughly $1,000 year on products. Again, if you value her looks it might be the norm...

• Once a year massage or spa , around 200
Once a year is fine. I never get them, but would love to be gifted one every now and then.

• Every couple of months I see 300-600 on the credit card for clothes, she says some of this gets returned and that she needs more clothes recently due to size changes of having two kids in past 4 years
-Eh, she isn't going into an office, she probably doesn't need to be spending this much. I "get dressed" every day, meaning I don't wear schlubby tights or whatever, but I still only spend about $600/year on clothes.

• Once or twice a year she makes a bigger purchase between 500-1000, could be bag, jewelry, shoes, clothing. It’s usually a birthday or anniversary gift.
I don't have the lifestyle of fine jewelry or bags so this can probably take a pause while she's at home. But doesn't she clear a 1k purchase with you? And don't you do the same with her? Me and DH do.

• 50-100 /month on coffee or lunch - this is just for her , not family take out or eating out
- If this is her only entertainment, let it go. She's not doing $200 dinners with friends or concerts or whatever. This probably keeps her sane.

I think some easy fat to cut would be her clothing budget, manicures, and gym membership. But really, I don't think you can tell her this. You should add up her spending and yours. Take a deep look at it and figure out what your goals are as a team.

It also sounds like she may buy a lot of clothes for the kids? How expensive are they? Kids grow quickly, but we managed to be pretty frugal by swapping with friends and buying cheap stuff. It doesn't need to be well-made if they will barf on it and only wear it for 5 months. Now, if your values are not to buy fast fashion, then hand-me-downs are great too.

But also, I wouldn't let everything slide and count on her going back to work soon...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you saving for retirement and have some easily accessible emergency savings for an unexpected expense? If so I would not worry about the financial situation right now. Most people with young kids are, not exactly living “paycheck to paycheck” but also not exactly building up a huge emergency fund and savings for a down payment on a new home. That goes if you have two working parents and day care/nanny expenses, or one parent and a SAHP and thus lesser income. Again is it worth her happiness to send her to a rec center gym and cut off her clothes spending to a few trips to Walmart each year to bank an extra $750 savings at the end of the year, I don’t think it is.

This was pretty much the attitude of all my friends who at 50 still have terrible savings and retirement feels like a pipe dream (even with excellent jobs). It's not like costs go down. It's just that the early baby costs get replaced by other equally (or more) expensive stuff as the kids get older. Botox, hair dye, cars for the teens, tutors, expensive extracurriculars, vacations for 4 instead of 2, etc. And sure, people are going to respond and say they don't have these expenses for their teens. But anyone who is spending on OPs budget on a HHI of $250k at OP's is exactly the type of person is spending on all these other things 10 years later. You think OP's wife, with her twice-a-year $1000 purse and $200/month gym membership is going to share a room with her family of four at the best western for vacations in 10 years?

In the mean time, those of us (and there are plenty) who lived frugally when kids were born (and had good jobs) are all looking at retirement by 55 if we want.

Most people don’t want to penny pinch their whole lives and retire at 55 or whatever. And then penny pinch for 25+ more years in retirement. You and the other terminally online cheapos are in the minority nationally on this.

If there were a bunch of seniors out there saying they are so glad they spent as they did in their younger years and pushed off retirement, you’d have a point. But I don’t see that going on anywhere.

Big difference between seniors retiring at 65+ and people trying to retire in their mid 50s or earlier. Big, big difference.

Also- OP and his wife are presumably millennials, likely born in the late 80s, if they have 2 young children. The life experience between millennials and yourself - seemingly an older Gen X if not even a younger Boomer - can’t even be compared. They are spending far more than you ever did on their mortgage, car payments, student loans, thanks to the skyrocketing costs of housing and college. Those are the big expense categories- not “$100/month on takeout.” And if he wants his wife to be cheap now and cut back her spending, he’s not going to like when she goes back to work and is spending on all the exact same stuff + day care + transportation and more takeout lunches + a cleaning service + a professional wardrobe.

You realize that everything you wrote counsels to not spending this much on beauty maintenance, right, it doesn’t excuse it? Per OP, she is spending more on many items now than when she was working. If you cannot see the fallacy with your thinking (what does this small expenditure matter when I have big student loans), then I don’t know what to say besides, life down the road will be tighter than you could have made it.

But that is literally the case for everything you spend money on unless you are getting the absolute cheapest thing every time you can. Did you eat something other than rice and beans last night? Tsk tsk, ask your 65 year old self if that was the right choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you saving for retirement and have some easily accessible emergency savings for an unexpected expense? If so I would not worry about the financial situation right now. Most people with young kids are, not exactly living “paycheck to paycheck” but also not exactly building up a huge emergency fund and savings for a down payment on a new home. That goes if you have two working parents and day care/nanny expenses, or one parent and a SAHP and thus lesser income. Again is it worth her happiness to send her to a rec center gym and cut off her clothes spending to a few trips to Walmart each year to bank an extra $750 savings at the end of the year, I don’t think it is.

This was pretty much the attitude of all my friends who at 50 still have terrible savings and retirement feels like a pipe dream (even with excellent jobs). It's not like costs go down. It's just that the early baby costs get replaced by other equally (or more) expensive stuff as the kids get older. Botox, hair dye, cars for the teens, tutors, expensive extracurriculars, vacations for 4 instead of 2, etc. And sure, people are going to respond and say they don't have these expenses for their teens. But anyone who is spending on OPs budget on a HHI of $250k at OP's is exactly the type of person is spending on all these other things 10 years later. You think OP's wife, with her twice-a-year $1000 purse and $200/month gym membership is going to share a room with her family of four at the best western for vacations in 10 years?

In the mean time, those of us (and there are plenty) who lived frugally when kids were born (and had good jobs) are all looking at retirement by 55 if we want.

Most people don’t want to penny pinch their whole lives and retire at 55 or whatever. And then penny pinch for 25+ more years in retirement. You and the other terminally online cheapos are in the minority nationally on this.

If there were a bunch of seniors out there saying they are so glad they spent as they did in their younger years and pushed off retirement, you’d have a point. But I don’t see that going on anywhere.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you saving for retirement and have some easily accessible emergency savings for an unexpected expense? If so I would not worry about the financial situation right now. Most people with young kids are, not exactly living “paycheck to paycheck” but also not exactly building up a huge emergency fund and savings for a down payment on a new home. That goes if you have two working parents and day care/nanny expenses, or one parent and a SAHP and thus lesser income. Again is it worth her happiness to send her to a rec center gym and cut off her clothes spending to a few trips to Walmart each year to bank an extra $750 savings at the end of the year, I don’t think it is.

This was pretty much the attitude of all my friends who at 50 still have terrible savings and retirement feels like a pipe dream (even with excellent jobs). It's not like costs go down. It's just that the early baby costs get replaced by other equally (or more) expensive stuff as the kids get older. Botox, hair dye, cars for the teens, tutors, expensive extracurriculars, vacations for 4 instead of 2, etc. And sure, people are going to respond and say they don't have these expenses for their teens. But anyone who is spending on OPs budget on a HHI of $250k at OP's is exactly the type of person is spending on all these other things 10 years later. You think OP's wife, with her twice-a-year $1000 purse and $200/month gym membership is going to share a room with her family of four at the best western for vacations in 10 years?

In the mean time, those of us (and there are plenty) who lived frugally when kids were born (and had good jobs) are all looking at retirement by 55 if we want.

Most people don’t want to penny pinch their whole lives and retire at 55 or whatever. And then penny pinch for 25+ more years in retirement. You and the other terminally online cheapos are in the minority nationally on this.

If there were a bunch of seniors out there saying they are so glad they spent as they did in their younger years and pushed off retirement, you’d have a point. But I don’t see that going on anywhere.

Big difference between seniors retiring at 65+ and people trying to retire in their mid 50s or earlier. Big, big difference.

Also- OP and his wife are presumably millennials, likely born in the late 80s, if they have 2 young children. The life experience between millennials and yourself - seemingly an older Gen X if not even a younger Boomer - can’t even be compared. They are spending far more than you ever did on their mortgage, car payments, student loans, thanks to the skyrocketing costs of housing and college. Those are the big expense categories- not “$100/month on takeout.” And if he wants his wife to be cheap now and cut back her spending, he’s not going to like when she goes back to work and is spending on all the exact same stuff + day care + transportation and more takeout lunches + a cleaning service + a professional wardrobe.

You realize that everything you wrote counsels to not spending this much on beauty maintenance, right, it doesn’t excuse it? Per OP, she is spending more on many items now than when she was working. If you cannot see the fallacy with your thinking (what does this small expenditure matter when I have big student loans), then I don’t know what to say besides, life down the road will be tighter than you could have made it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you saving for retirement and have some easily accessible emergency savings for an unexpected expense? If so I would not worry about the financial situation right now. Most people with young kids are, not exactly living “paycheck to paycheck” but also not exactly building up a huge emergency fund and savings for a down payment on a new home. That goes if you have two working parents and day care/nanny expenses, or one parent and a SAHP and thus lesser income. Again is it worth her happiness to send her to a rec center gym and cut off her clothes spending to a few trips to Walmart each year to bank an extra $750 savings at the end of the year, I don’t think it is.

This was pretty much the attitude of all my friends who at 50 still have terrible savings and retirement feels like a pipe dream (even with excellent jobs). It's not like costs go down. It's just that the early baby costs get replaced by other equally (or more) expensive stuff as the kids get older. Botox, hair dye, cars for the teens, tutors, expensive extracurriculars, vacations for 4 instead of 2, etc. And sure, people are going to respond and say they don't have these expenses for their teens. But anyone who is spending on OPs budget on a HHI of $250k at OP's is exactly the type of person is spending on all these other things 10 years later. You think OP's wife, with her twice-a-year $1000 purse and $200/month gym membership is going to share a room with her family of four at the best western for vacations in 10 years?

In the mean time, those of us (and there are plenty) who lived frugally when kids were born (and had good jobs) are all looking at retirement by 55 if we want.

It's ok for people to have different priorities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you saving for retirement and have some easily accessible emergency savings for an unexpected expense? If so I would not worry about the financial situation right now. Most people with young kids are, not exactly living “paycheck to paycheck” but also not exactly building up a huge emergency fund and savings for a down payment on a new home. That goes if you have two working parents and day care/nanny expenses, or one parent and a SAHP and thus lesser income. Again is it worth her happiness to send her to a rec center gym and cut off her clothes spending to a few trips to Walmart each year to bank an extra $750 savings at the end of the year, I don’t think it is.

This was pretty much the attitude of all my friends who at 50 still have terrible savings and retirement feels like a pipe dream (even with excellent jobs). It's not like costs go down. It's just that the early baby costs get replaced by other equally (or more) expensive stuff as the kids get older. Botox, hair dye, cars for the teens, tutors, expensive extracurriculars, vacations for 4 instead of 2, etc. And sure, people are going to respond and say they don't have these expenses for their teens. But anyone who is spending on OPs budget on a HHI of $250k at OP's is exactly the type of person is spending on all these other things 10 years later. You think OP's wife, with her twice-a-year $1000 purse and $200/month gym membership is going to share a room with her family of four at the best western for vacations in 10 years?

In the mean time, those of us (and there are plenty) who lived frugally when kids were born (and had good jobs) are all looking at retirement by 55 if we want.

Most people don’t want to penny pinch their whole lives and retire at 55 or whatever. And then penny pinch for 25+ more years in retirement. You and the other terminally online cheapos are in the minority nationally on this.

If there were a bunch of seniors out there saying they are so glad they spent as they did in their younger years and pushed off retirement, you’d have a point. But I don’t see that going on anywhere.

Big difference between seniors retiring at 65+ and people trying to retire in their mid 50s or earlier. Big, big difference.

Also- OP and his wife are presumably millennials, likely born in the late 80s, if they have 2 young children. The life experience between millennials and yourself - seemingly an older Gen X if not even a younger Boomer - can’t even be compared. They are spending far more than you ever did on their mortgage, car payments, student loans, thanks to the skyrocketing costs of housing and college. Those are the big expense categories- not “$100/month on takeout.” And if he wants his wife to be cheap now and cut back her spending, he’s not going to like when she goes back to work and is spending on all the exact same stuff + day care + transportation and more takeout lunches + a cleaning service + a professional wardrobe.