Anonymous
08/06/2024 12:07
Subject: Re:Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?
Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.
Anonymous
08/06/2024 12:07
Subject: Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The best example I can think of that speed cameras actually work is Connecticut Ave in Kensington. South of downtown there are I think 4 cameras and rarely does someone go above 45 mph. Occasionally you’ll get a car speeding up and slowing down by the camera but the reality is they are so close it’s not really worth it. (For what it’s worth I’ve also never seen or heard of any camera related crashes due to these sudden stops.) Put enough cameras and there’s no reason to speed between them.
North of downtown there are no cameras (because the speed limit is 40 mph in the first section) and it’s a raceway. I’ve tried to travel the speed limit and you’re getting passed aggressively. The prevailing speed is about 50 mph during the times of day I drive there.
Similarly, the county just did a speed study on a section of Veirs Mill and something like 11% of cars were in violation meaning 12 mph over the limit—the average speed was 52 mph in a 35. The max speed recorded was 94! I’d love to see the study repeated after cameras.
Similar in the stretch of CT Ave just north of Ch Ch Circle. Cameras keep the wary under 30 mph. Once north of Bradley and no cameras? Boom!
Nah, longtimers like me just speed from camera to camera.
All that speeding up and then slamming on the brakes. Hilarious to watch. 😆
once you learn where they are, the cameras are easy to avoid.
Anonymous
08/06/2024 12:06
Subject: Re:Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?
Anonymous
08/06/2024 11:30
Subject: Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The best example I can think of that speed cameras actually work is Connecticut Ave in Kensington. South of downtown there are I think 4 cameras and rarely does someone go above 45 mph. Occasionally you’ll get a car speeding up and slowing down by the camera but the reality is they are so close it’s not really worth it. (For what it’s worth I’ve also never seen or heard of any camera related crashes due to these sudden stops.) Put enough cameras and there’s no reason to speed between them.
North of downtown there are no cameras (because the speed limit is 40 mph in the first section) and it’s a raceway. I’ve tried to travel the speed limit and you’re getting passed aggressively. The prevailing speed is about 50 mph during the times of day I drive there.
Similarly, the county just did a speed study on a section of Veirs Mill and something like 11% of cars were in violation meaning 12 mph over the limit—the average speed was 52 mph in a 35. The max speed recorded was 94! I’d love to see the study repeated after cameras.
Similar in the stretch of CT Ave just north of Ch Ch Circle. Cameras keep the wary under 30 mph. Once north of Bradley and no cameras? Boom!
Nah, longtimers like me just speed from camera to camera.
All that speeding up and then slamming on the brakes. Hilarious to watch. 😆
Anonymous
08/06/2024 11:29
Subject: Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I like the cameras because they really are a tax on stupid people. If you drive certain roads regularly, it's really easy to know the few spots where you need to slow down for about five seconds, or the one or two stop signs where you need to exaggerate your stop, and to do whatever you want everywhere else. And if you're unfamiliar with an area, just turn on Waze and it will alert you to most of the cameras. So I've never gotten a camera ticket despite speeding frequently and am grateful that DC is focused on raising revenue from stupid people rather than people like me.
Stupid people from Maryland and Virginia don't care about traffic cameras because DC can't enforce tickets issued to VA and MD drivers, so they keep speeding around the city. Speed cameras are not a deterrent for VA and MD drivers. Speed bumps are better b/c if you speed, you get automatic punishment (car damage), whether you are from VA, MD, or DC. Speed cameras are just a money-grubbing tool.
None of the main cameras are in locations where speed bumps are allowed. All the big money makers are near the regional highways and are glorified commuter taxes.
Anonymous
08/06/2024 11:16
Subject: Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP is mad Democrats are raising revenue without raising taxes
seriously?
No. They're complaining that it's racist. Black people pay the vast majority of the fines, which are very expensive and can ruin people's lives. The Washington Post (and a lot of other publications) have written about this.
Black people need to be given a pass then for speeding tickets.
The fact that black drivers pay 5x the fines that white drivers do isn't suspicious to you?
Are you saying that black people are less able than white people to adhere to traffic laws?
See below for one study on the subject:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35868815/
"Black and Hispanic Americans have higher traffic fatality rates per mile traveled than White Americans across the transportation system, requiring urgent attention."
Please note that the study also explicitly controlled for the fact that different racial groups have tendencies to live in areas of various density at differing rates. Thus, it does seem that there are differences in accident rates among races.
Before you jump in and scream "RACIST!!!" for posting a simple study, I am acknowledging that this could possibly be due to poverty causing a greater sense of recklessness, a lesser trust in the law / system, or other related reasons, as socioeconomic status doesn't appeared to be controlled in this study. But nevertheless, the rates of car accidents among blacks is substantially higher and we have empirical data that proves this.
Anonymous
08/06/2024 11:14
Subject: Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Anonymous wrote:I like the cameras because they really are a tax on stupid people. If you drive certain roads regularly, it's really easy to know the few spots where you need to slow down for about five seconds, or the one or two stop signs where you need to exaggerate your stop, and to do whatever you want everywhere else. And if you're unfamiliar with an area, just turn on Waze and it will alert you to most of the cameras. So I've never gotten a camera ticket despite speeding frequently and am grateful that DC is focused on raising revenue from stupid people rather than people like me.
Stupid people from Maryland and Virginia don't care about traffic cameras because DC can't enforce tickets issued to VA and MD drivers, so they keep speeding around the city. Speed cameras are not a deterrent for VA and MD drivers. Speed bumps are better b/c if you speed, you get automatic punishment (car damage), whether you are from VA, MD, or DC. Speed cameras are just a money-grubbing tool.
Anonymous
08/06/2024 10:49
Subject: Re:Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Anonymous wrote:Republicans have legislation that will ban traffic cameras in DC. If they win the House and the Senate, it's over for this little experiment. The city might (gasp!) have to cut spending or find some other way to raise money.
Bowser is telling Congress banning cameras would cost the city a *billion* dollars, which shows the ridiculous number of tickets that are being issued.
Anonymous
08/06/2024 10:46
Subject: Re:Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Republicans have legislation that will ban traffic cameras in DC. If they win the House and the Senate, it's over for this little experiment. The city might (gasp!) have to cut spending or find some other way to raise money.
Anonymous
08/06/2024 10:44
Subject: Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Anonymous wrote:I like the cameras because they really are a tax on stupid people. If you drive certain roads regularly, it's really easy to know the few spots where you need to slow down for about five seconds, or the one or two stop signs where you need to exaggerate your stop, and to do whatever you want everywhere else. And if you're unfamiliar with an area, just turn on Waze and it will alert you to most of the cameras. So I've never gotten a camera ticket despite speeding frequently and am grateful that DC is focused on raising revenue from stupid people rather than people like me.
Ironically, traffic cameras make cities less safe. They tell drivers they can do whatever they want so long as they avoid doing it in front of the relatively few cameras (or they obscure their license plates).
Anonymous
08/06/2024 10:40
Subject: Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There are studies showing they are effective. Maryland requires a 12 mph buffer so you have to be going 12 over the speed limit to get a ticket. Is DC similar? If so, there really is no excuse. Speed is one of the number one killers in traffic accidents.
There's also studies that show they're mostly paid by poor people. Other cities have gotten rid of them because of that.
Are you saying that poor people are less able to adhere to laws?
DP. Yes, that is the elephant in the room. Poor people don't really follow the laws or act in a responsible manner, and society as a whole is exhausted from trying to make them comply. We've tried letting them do whatever they want the last few years, but no one is happy with that either.
Drivers are mostly black and brown in DC because they tend to live farther away and are less likely to have jobs where remote work is allowed.
This is why some cities have gotten rid of traffic cameras. The racial disparities in who bears the brunt of the enforcement are pretty stark.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/...black-neighborhoods/
https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-r...ino-drivers-the-most
You again? So we just ignore racial disparities in traffic deaths and accidents?
Anonymous
08/06/2024 10:39
Subject: Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There are studies showing they are effective. Maryland requires a 12 mph buffer so you have to be going 12 over the speed limit to get a ticket. Is DC similar? If so, there really is no excuse. Speed is one of the number one killers in traffic accidents.
There's also studies that show they're mostly paid by poor people. Other cities have gotten rid of them because of that.
Are you saying that poor people are less able to adhere to laws?
DP. Yes, that is the elephant in the room. Poor people don't really follow the laws or act in a responsible manner, and society as a whole is exhausted from trying to make them comply. We've tried letting them do whatever they want the last few years, but no one is happy with that either.
Drivers are mostly black and brown in DC because they tend to live farther away and are less likely to have jobs where remote work is allowed.
This is why some cities have gotten rid of traffic cameras. The racial disparities in who bears the brunt of the enforcement are pretty stark.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/...black-neighborhoods/
https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-r...ino-drivers-the-most
Anonymous
08/06/2024 10:33
Subject: Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
I like the cameras because they really are a tax on stupid people. If you drive certain roads regularly, it's really easy to know the few spots where you need to slow down for about five seconds, or the one or two stop signs where you need to exaggerate your stop, and to do whatever you want everywhere else. And if you're unfamiliar with an area, just turn on Waze and it will alert you to most of the cameras. So I've never gotten a camera ticket despite speeding frequently and am grateful that DC is focused on raising revenue from stupid people rather than people like me.
Anonymous
08/06/2024 10:14
Subject: Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP is mad Democrats are raising revenue without raising taxes
seriously?
No. They're complaining that it's racist. Black people pay the vast majority of the fines, which are very expensive and can ruin people's lives. The Washington Post (and a lot of other publications) have written about this.
Black people need to be given a pass then for speeding tickets.
The fact that black drivers pay 5x the fines that white drivers do isn't suspicious to you?
Are you saying that black people are less able than white people to adhere to traffic laws?
This is mostly a function of how our cities are organized. There are more of these high-earning cameras in parts of the city that have fewer white drivers. Why? Because there are more streets where people are inclined to speed there. Predominantly white neighborhoods tend to have quieter street design; predominantly black neighborhoods have more wide, highway-like roads running through them. So there is actually some implicit bias behind these figures around who pays more fines, but it's not in the enforcement, it's in the underlying facts behind the deployment of the cameras in the first place. Unfortunately, partly because of the road design problem, black residents are also likelier than white ones to be hit and injured by speeding cars, so fixing the ticket payment inequities can also exacerbate other ones.
Anonymous
08/06/2024 10:14
Subject: Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The best example I can think of that speed cameras actually work is Connecticut Ave in Kensington. South of downtown there are I think 4 cameras and rarely does someone go above 45 mph. Occasionally you’ll get a car speeding up and slowing down by the camera but the reality is they are so close it’s not really worth it. (For what it’s worth I’ve also never seen or heard of any camera related crashes due to these sudden stops.) Put enough cameras and there’s no reason to speed between them.
North of downtown there are no cameras (because the speed limit is 40 mph in the first section) and it’s a raceway. I’ve tried to travel the speed limit and you’re getting passed aggressively. The prevailing speed is about 50 mph during the times of day I drive there.
Similarly, the county just did a speed study on a section of Veirs Mill and something like 11% of cars were in violation meaning 12 mph over the limit—the average speed was 52 mph in a 35. The max speed recorded was 94! I’d love to see the study repeated after cameras.
Similar in the stretch of CT Ave just north of Ch Ch Circle. Cameras keep the wary under 30 mph. Once north of Bradley and no cameras? Boom!
Nah, longtimers like me just speed from camera to camera.