Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child with a mid September birthday started kindergarten at 4 last year. She had a wonderful experience both socially and academically. I'm so glad I did not redshirt her. Have some confidence in your kids, people.

My kid with an August birthday honestly struggled a bit in kindergarten due to maturity. But you know what, it was okay. We supported her, the teacher supported her, the school worked with her. A few years on, she's doing great.

Someone has to be the youngest. For my kid, it's helped her learn that she could do hard things, that it's okay to struggle with something new. She learned to be diligent and not get too down if something takes a bit longer to master. It can be hard to watch your kid go through something hard, but it's actually essential to their development as people. Why would you deprive a developmentally normal and otherwise perfectly healthy child the opportunity for that growth just to spare them the difficulty of "being the youngest"?

There are other ways this can go — we have a kid who is the youngest in the whole grade at school who is a constant problem behaviorally. But that’s when the school should step in. Ours shuffles him to a new class every time he has absolutely exhausted one of the teachers, but it seems like it would be better for him — and every other student who is being disrupted by his behavior, frankly, if the school would just hold him back. He is smart but not behaviorally where the others are.

This child would have behavioral problems regardless of what grade they are in. That's not an age issue, its something else. And, they need to have age appropiate expectations for this child.

I have the youngest in the grade and never been any issues. One of the smarter kids too.

I approve of DC's decision to strictly enforce the policy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with having a standard and not making exceptions. But I wish dcps would gradually scoot these cutoffs back, maybe even just a few weeks a year. Half the kids in dcps are not emotionally ready for what’s asked of them in prek4 and K.

And now the gap between what private can offer in terms of developmental appropriateness is getting even bigger. In my neighborhood the private school kids will be several months older on average — and enjoy a gentle acceleration without the pressure of testing.

Agreed, though our experience with PK4 was that it was very age appropriate and a great fit for our kid with a summer birthday. I think DCPS needs to look critically at both the K curriculum and the way K teachers are trained and apply some of the lessons from the PK program to turn it into a true transitional program that focuses on shifting kids from ECE to elementary and helping them build socio-emotional maturity, patience, and interpersonal skills.

PK teachers in DCPS almost all have masters in early childhood education. K teachers generally do not, and many K teachers float between K, 1st, and 2nd grade to help schools accommodate fluctuating IB enrollment into the K cohort. This can exacerbate the issue of K teachers who have unrealistic expectations, developmentally, because they may be accustomed to a classroom of 7 or 8 year olds and then have to come in and teach a cohort of 5 year olds, even some 4 year olds.

I have also never understood the point of making the cutoff September 30th. It's hard for the kids, even just psychologically. Kids with late August and September birthdays are always hyper-aware of the fact that they start school a different age than peers. Even for kids who are perfectly on target developmentally, I think this can become a source of anxiety. Why not make the cut off August 1st or August 15th, so all kids are the same age on the first day of school? I don't get why this wouldn't be the obvious choice.

Anyway, put me in the camp of people who thinks we need to fix kindergarten so that it's age appropriate and serves the interests of more kids, rather than accepting that kindergarten is often too academic with unrealistic expectations and then just leaving it up to parents to realize this in advance and redshirt accordingly.

Completely agree with you PP on making K appropriate for kids' developmental level and including more physical activity, free time, centers, play-based, all of that.

But IMO a fraction of these parents just want to maximize advantages for their kids and will still redshirt to have the biggest and most "advanced" kids. Hence you have SO much private school redshirting when obviously those schools have flexibility to design classrooms and routines appropriately and don't have state-mandated testing in the early years, etc.

Basically I think making K better is a laudable goal but will not "solve" redshirting.

Right -- the stated rationale of these people is that they do not want their kid to be the youngest.

Yup. They keep throwing out redshirting research but where's the data on the kids that are then the youngest? The May and June birthdays is every July, August, September birthday gets held back.

Also, the research doesn't really stratify for socioeconomic status and circumstance. If your parents have means to pay an extra year of preschool, your chances of improved academic performance were already higher than those whose parents couldn't.

This study did stratify for socioeconomic status and found a persistent impact of being the youngest throughout high school. It isn’t a huge impact but it is there even for high income families that can afford tutors. With my oldest entering high school this does not surprise me at all.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/18/544483397/oldest-kids-in-class-do-better-even-through-college

Even if true though, you can’t really fix this — someone is going to be the youngest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with having a standard and not making exceptions. But I wish dcps would gradually scoot these cutoffs back, maybe even just a few weeks a year. Half the kids in dcps are not emotionally ready for what’s asked of them in prek4 and K.

And now the gap between what private can offer in terms of developmental appropriateness is getting even bigger. In my neighborhood the private school kids will be several months older on average — and enjoy a gentle acceleration without the pressure of testing.

Agreed, though our experience with PK4 was that it was very age appropriate and a great fit for our kid with a summer birthday. I think DCPS needs to look critically at both the K curriculum and the way K teachers are trained and apply some of the lessons from the PK program to turn it into a true transitional program that focuses on shifting kids from ECE to elementary and helping them build socio-emotional maturity, patience, and interpersonal skills.

PK teachers in DCPS almost all have masters in early childhood education. K teachers generally do not, and many K teachers float between K, 1st, and 2nd grade to help schools accommodate fluctuating IB enrollment into the K cohort. This can exacerbate the issue of K teachers who have unrealistic expectations, developmentally, because they may be accustomed to a classroom of 7 or 8 year olds and then have to come in and teach a cohort of 5 year olds, even some 4 year olds.

I have also never understood the point of making the cutoff September 30th. It's hard for the kids, even just psychologically. Kids with late August and September birthdays are always hyper-aware of the fact that they start school a different age than peers. Even for kids who are perfectly on target developmentally, I think this can become a source of anxiety. Why not make the cut off August 1st or August 15th, so all kids are the same age on the first day of school? I don't get why this wouldn't be the obvious choice.

Anyway, put me in the camp of people who thinks we need to fix kindergarten so that it's age appropriate and serves the interests of more kids, rather than accepting that kindergarten is often too academic with unrealistic expectations and then just leaving it up to parents to realize this in advance and redshirt accordingly.

Completely agree with you PP on making K appropriate for kids' developmental level and including more physical activity, free time, centers, play-based, all of that.

But IMO a fraction of these parents just want to maximize advantages for their kids and will still redshirt to have the biggest and most "advanced" kids. Hence you have SO much private school redshirting when obviously those schools have flexibility to design classrooms and routines appropriately and don't have state-mandated testing in the early years, etc.

Basically I think making K better is a laudable goal but will not "solve" redshirting.

Right -- the stated rationale of these people is that they do not want their kid to be the youngest.

Yup. They keep throwing out redshirting research but where's the data on the kids that are then the youngest? The May and June birthdays is every July, August, September birthday gets held back.

Also, the research doesn't really stratify for socioeconomic status and circumstance. If your parents have means to pay an extra year of preschool, your chances of improved academic performance were already higher than those whose parents couldn't.

This study did stratify for socioeconomic status and found a persistent impact of being the youngest throughout high school. It isn’t a huge impact but it is there even for high income families that can afford tutors. With my oldest entering high school this does not surprise me at all.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/18/544483397/oldest-kids-in-class-do-better-even-through-college

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child with a mid September birthday started kindergarten at 4 last year. She had a wonderful experience both socially and academically. I'm so glad I did not redshirt her. Have some confidence in your kids, people.

This, sent my June birthday boy on time and no regrets. He regularly scores 98th percentile on his standardized testing and was identified in 2nd grade as gifted & talented. The research shows that putting your kid in a slightly older cohort challenges them more and holds them to higher standards, which ultimately sets them up for had work and success in life.

Same. Multiple boy household here and both have late August/September birthdays. They're both in high school now and have consistently performed at or above peer level. I remembering worrying when my first was approaching school age about whether they'd be too young and now I cannot imagine having held them back artificially. One of my sons is extremely tall/athletic for his age. Just the size difference alone would have been really awkward for him since he already towers over his current classmates, let alone kids a full year younger than him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child with a mid September birthday started kindergarten at 4 last year. She had a wonderful experience both socially and academically. I'm so glad I did not redshirt her. Have some confidence in your kids, people.

This, sent my June birthday boy on time and no regrets. He regularly scores 98th percentile on his standardized testing and was identified in 2nd grade as gifted & talented. The research shows that putting your kid in a slightly older cohort challenges them more and holds them to higher standards, which ultimately sets them up for had work and success in life.

This is the norm in my parents' immigrant community (which I will not name, because it would derail the thread with racist replies).

+1

DH was not raised in the US and always talks about how late we graduate HS here. It’s definitely seen as better to send a younger kid to school in some cultures.

LMAO. They graduate HS at 19 in South Korea and they are doing just fine.
It is not better but your own choice, it will not automatically benefit your child. I graduated HS at 16 and started college at 17. It impacted me negatively in social relationships. However, this won’t be everyone.

Um okay why is that a funny post? Just stating that not all cultures view being older when you graduate as a good thing. Great for South Korea though!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child with a mid September birthday started kindergarten at 4 last year. She had a wonderful experience both socially and academically. I'm so glad I did not redshirt her. Have some confidence in your kids, people.

My kid with an August birthday honestly struggled a bit in kindergarten due to maturity. But you know what, it was okay. We supported her, the teacher supported her, the school worked with her. A few years on, she's doing great.

Someone has to be the youngest. For my kid, it's helped her learn that she could do hard things, that it's okay to struggle with something new. She learned to be diligent and not get too down if something takes a bit longer to master. It can be hard to watch your kid go through something hard, but it's actually essential to their development as people. Why would you deprive a developmentally normal and otherwise perfectly healthy child the opportunity for that growth just to spare them the difficulty of "being the youngest"?

There are other ways this can go — we have a kid who is the youngest in the whole grade at school who is a constant problem behaviorally. But that’s when the school should step in. Ours shuffles him to a new class every time he has absolutely exhausted one of the teachers, but it seems like it would be better for him — and every other student who is being disrupted by his behavior, frankly, if the school would just hold him back. He is smart but not behaviorally where the others are.

Is your child’s behavior just immature or are there other issues at play? Because just holding them back might not solve the behavior issues.

Sorry, I meant we have in our grade -- not my kid. The behavior has always seemed just immature to me, but of course I don't know if there are other issues. Either way, there should be another way aside from inflicting it on everyone else.

I'm the PP who has the kid who was very young for K and struggled a bit. I think what you are describing is a kid with special needs. If it's DCPS, likely the kid has been evaluated already and is simply being mainstreamed. Him being on the young end for the grade *might* exacerbate the behavioral issues but it's not the cause.

Especially in DCPS, where redshirting almost never happens at most elementary schools, being the youngest will not result in a kid be dramatically less mature than the rest of the class, because there will be other kids with birthdays around the same time even if they are a bit older. In my kid's K classroom, there were multiple kids with August and September birthdays, and they were on the less mature end for the classroom, especially when you compared them to the kids with October and November birthdays. The difference between 4 or just-5 and almost 6 can be pretty stark. The 4 year olds still cry when upset, get tired more easily, struggle to sit still. The 6 yr olds have largely outgrown those behaviors. So that's hard. But by first, the gap has shrunk considerably. In first grade, my kid was a model student.

Meanwhile, there have been a few disruptive kids in her classes. One of them was actually old for the grade -- started 1st grade at age 7, I think due to a neglect situation. She was immature both for her grade and her age (not her fault, I'm not criticizing this child) and really struggled at emotional regulation. None of the others were the youngest either. A consistently disruptive child over several years is not just too young. They have special needs. It's like how there's a range for when kids learn to read with ordinary instruction, but a child with dyslexia may still not be reading even on the late end of this window because they have a special need and require different instruction. It's not about age.

If the only concerns about a child is just that they are on the young end of the cohort and that might be hard, they should go on time IMO. It may in fact be hard. That's life. If they have no developmental issues, they will mature and overcome those early challenges, and be better off for it. And if they have undiagnosed issues, then that will become clear when getting older doesn't solve the issue, at which point the school and parents can look at their options. But there's no real point in holding them back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child with a mid September birthday started kindergarten at 4 last year. She had a wonderful experience both socially and academically. I'm so glad I did not redshirt her. Have some confidence in your kids, people.

This, sent my June birthday boy on time and no regrets. He regularly scores 98th percentile on his standardized testing and was identified in 2nd grade as gifted & talented. The research shows that putting your kid in a slightly older cohort challenges them more and holds them to higher standards, which ultimately sets them up for had work and success in life.

This is the norm in my parents' immigrant community (which I will not name, because it would derail the thread with racist replies).

+1

DH was not raised in the US and always talks about how late we graduate HS here. It’s definitely seen as better to send a younger kid to school in some cultures.

LMAO. They graduate HS at 19 in South Korea and they are doing just fine.
It is not better but your own choice, it will not automatically benefit your child. I graduated HS at 16 and started college at 17. It impacted me negatively in social relationships. However, this won’t be everyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child with a mid September birthday started kindergarten at 4 last year. She had a wonderful experience both socially and academically. I'm so glad I did not redshirt her. Have some confidence in your kids, people.

My kid with an August birthday honestly struggled a bit in kindergarten due to maturity. But you know what, it was okay. We supported her, the teacher supported her, the school worked with her. A few years on, she's doing great.

Someone has to be the youngest. For my kid, it's helped her learn that she could do hard things, that it's okay to struggle with something new. She learned to be diligent and not get too down if something takes a bit longer to master. It can be hard to watch your kid go through something hard, but it's actually essential to their development as people. Why would you deprive a developmentally normal and otherwise perfectly healthy child the opportunity for that growth just to spare them the difficulty of "being the youngest"?

There are other ways this can go — we have a kid who is the youngest in the whole grade at school who is a constant problem behaviorally. But that’s when the school should step in. Ours shuffles him to a new class every time he has absolutely exhausted one of the teachers, but it seems like it would be better for him — and every other student who is being disrupted by his behavior, frankly, if the school would just hold him back. He is smart but not behaviorally where the others are.

Eh, the most challenging kid in DS's grade is an October birthday.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child with a mid September birthday started kindergarten at 4 last year. She had a wonderful experience both socially and academically. I'm so glad I did not redshirt her. Have some confidence in your kids, people.

My kid with an August birthday honestly struggled a bit in kindergarten due to maturity. But you know what, it was okay. We supported her, the teacher supported her, the school worked with her. A few years on, she's doing great.

Someone has to be the youngest. For my kid, it's helped her learn that she could do hard things, that it's okay to struggle with something new. She learned to be diligent and not get too down if something takes a bit longer to master. It can be hard to watch your kid go through something hard, but it's actually essential to their development as people. Why would you deprive a developmentally normal and otherwise perfectly healthy child the opportunity for that growth just to spare them the difficulty of "being the youngest"?

There are other ways this can go — we have a kid who is the youngest in the whole grade at school who is a constant problem behaviorally. But that’s when the school should step in. Ours shuffles him to a new class every time he has absolutely exhausted one of the teachers, but it seems like it would be better for him — and every other student who is being disrupted by his behavior, frankly, if the school would just hold him back. He is smart but not behaviorally where the others are.

Is your child’s behavior just immature or are there other issues at play? Because just holding them back might not solve the behavior issues.

Sorry, I meant we have in our grade -- not my kid. The behavior has always seemed just immature to me, but of course I don't know if there are other issues. Either way, there should be another way aside from inflicting it on everyone else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child with a mid September birthday started kindergarten at 4 last year. She had a wonderful experience both socially and academically. I'm so glad I did not redshirt her. Have some confidence in your kids, people.

My kid with an August birthday honestly struggled a bit in kindergarten due to maturity. But you know what, it was okay. We supported her, the teacher supported her, the school worked with her. A few years on, she's doing great.

Someone has to be the youngest. For my kid, it's helped her learn that she could do hard things, that it's okay to struggle with something new. She learned to be diligent and not get too down if something takes a bit longer to master. It can be hard to watch your kid go through something hard, but it's actually essential to their development as people. Why would you deprive a developmentally normal and otherwise perfectly healthy child the opportunity for that growth just to spare them the difficulty of "being the youngest"?

There are other ways this can go — we have a kid who is the youngest in the whole grade at school who is a constant problem behaviorally. But that’s when the school should step in. Ours shuffles him to a new class every time he has absolutely exhausted one of the teachers, but it seems like it would be better for him — and every other student who is being disrupted by his behavior, frankly, if the school would just hold him back. He is smart but not behaviorally where the others are.

Is your child’s behavior just immature or are there other issues at play? Because just holding them back might not solve the behavior issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child with a mid September birthday started kindergarten at 4 last year. She had a wonderful experience both socially and academically. I'm so glad I did not redshirt her. Have some confidence in your kids, people.

My kid with an August birthday honestly struggled a bit in kindergarten due to maturity. But you know what, it was okay. We supported her, the teacher supported her, the school worked with her. A few years on, she's doing great.

Someone has to be the youngest. For my kid, it's helped her learn that she could do hard things, that it's okay to struggle with something new. She learned to be diligent and not get too down if something takes a bit longer to master. It can be hard to watch your kid go through something hard, but it's actually essential to their development as people. Why would you deprive a developmentally normal and otherwise perfectly healthy child the opportunity for that growth just to spare them the difficulty of "being the youngest"?

There are other ways this can go — we have a kid who is the youngest in the whole grade at school who is a constant problem behaviorally. But that’s when the school should step in. Ours shuffles him to a new class every time he has absolutely exhausted one of the teachers, but it seems like it would be better for him — and every other student who is being disrupted by his behavior, frankly, if the school would just hold him back. He is smart but not behaviorally where the others are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child with a mid September birthday started kindergarten at 4 last year. She had a wonderful experience both socially and academically. I'm so glad I did not redshirt her. Have some confidence in your kids, people.

This, sent my June birthday boy on time and no regrets. He regularly scores 98th percentile on his standardized testing and was identified in 2nd grade as gifted & talented. The research shows that putting your kid in a slightly older cohort challenges them more and holds them to higher standards, which ultimately sets them up for had work and success in life.

This is the norm in my parents' immigrant community (which I will not name, because it would derail the thread with racist replies).

+1

DH was not raised in the US and always talks about how late we graduate HS here. It’s definitely seen as better to send a younger kid to school in some cultures.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child with a mid September birthday started kindergarten at 4 last year. She had a wonderful experience both socially and academically. I'm so glad I did not redshirt her. Have some confidence in your kids, people.

This, sent my June birthday boy on time and no regrets. He regularly scores 98th percentile on his standardized testing and was identified in 2nd grade as gifted & talented. The research shows that putting your kid in a slightly older cohort challenges them more and holds them to higher standards, which ultimately sets them up for had work and success in life.

This is the norm in my parents' immigrant community (which I will not name, because it would derail the thread with racist replies).

Anonymous wrote:My child with a mid September birthday started kindergarten at 4 last year. She had a wonderful experience both socially and academically. I'm so glad I did not redshirt her. Have some confidence in your kids, people.

This, sent my June birthday boy on time and no regrets. He regularly scores 98th percentile on his standardized testing and was identified in 2nd grade as gifted & talented. The research shows that putting your kid in a slightly older cohort challenges them more and holds them to higher standards, which ultimately sets them up for had work and success in life.