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Anonymous wrote:It wasn’t ignorance. It’s just that we didn’t care if he had good days or bad days as an old man. Biden + his team have passed a sh#t ton of legislation.

DCUM is more likely to care about policy outcomes than your average internet hivemind.

Biden hasn’t passed legislation, he’s read a teleprompter while unknown individuals craft policy and make executive decisions.

Are you saying that Trump personally wrote all legislation passed during his term? Are you unaware of how any of this works? They have speechwriters FFS. Doris Kearns Goodwin was such a good writer that Reagan won a second term while suffering Alzheimer’s. Guarantee she gave him that one-liner about his age. And you all want to name everything that will hold still long enough to affix a sign after Reagan, as if he wasn’t just speaking the words and thoughts of others. Lucky for him he was a trained actor and didn’t have a childhood stutter, so it was more convincing.

I’m voting against Trump and Biden will be just fine, and when he’s not any longer Kamala will be great.

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Anonymous wrote:It wasn’t ignorance. It’s just that we didn’t care if he had good days or bad days as an old man. Biden + his team have passed a sh#t ton of legislation.

DCUM is more likely to care about policy outcomes than your average internet hivemind.

Biden hasn’t passed legislation, he’s read a teleprompter while unknown individuals craft policy and make executive decisions.

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Anonymous wrote:Well it should be 100% but realistically, some people are so deep into it, they are psychologically incapable of admitting they were lied to and scammed by people they trusted.

My mind was changed in the debate about his health status but my vote didn't change. As I saw someone say somewhere, just because you realize Alfred is too old to run the bat cave it doesn't mean you put the joker in charge. Trump is a nonstarter, he'd have to be running against Putin himself to get me to even consider it.

Your view was already accounted for in the polls pre debate that showed Biden losing to Trump. This debate is turning on swing state independents.

True. The math is very simple now. Biden remains in the 2024 race = Trump wins. Biden does the right thing by withdrawing from the 2024 race very soon = Trump loses.

I disagree with you. Even with the bad debate showing, I still think that Biden is the best bet to keep Trump from the White House. What you are thinking and saying is only true for the minority of the American electorate who pay attention to the news. The majority of the American voting populace does not follow political news and the majority vote by party. There are huge swaths of Americans who have no idea what happened at the debate and are not going to pay attention or keep track.

Biden is still the leading Democratic candidate for the masses of the politically ignorant. The debate performance likely only canceled the swing from the Trump conviction in the minds of the majority. And there's still 4 months to go including next week's Trump sentencing. By the time the sentencing occurs, this will be long gone from the majority of the population.

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Anonymous wrote:Well it should be 100% but realistically, some people are so deep into it, they are psychologically incapable of admitting they were lied to and scammed by people they trusted.

My mind was changed in the debate about his health status but my vote didn't change. As I saw someone say somewhere, just because you realize Alfred is too old to run the bat cave it doesn't mean you put the joker in charge. Trump is a nonstarter, he'd have to be running against Putin himself to get me to even consider it.

Your view was already accounted for in the polls pre debate that showed Biden losing to Trump. This debate is turning on swing state independents.

True. The math is very simple now. Biden remains in the 2024 race = Trump wins. Biden does the right thing by withdrawing from the 2024 race very soon = Trump loses.

I disagree with you. Even with the bad debate showing, I still think that Biden is the best bet to keep Trump from the White House. What you are thinking and saying is only true for the minority of the American electorate who pay attention to the news. The majority of the American voting populace does not follow political news and the majority vote by party. There are huge swaths of Americans who have no idea what happened at the debate and are not going to pay attention or keep track.

Biden is still the leading Democratic candidate for the masses of the politically ignorant. The debate performance likely only canceled the swing from the Trump conviction in the minds of the majority. And there's still 4 months to go including next week's Trump sentencing. By the time the sentencing occurs, this will be long gone from the majority of the population.

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Anonymous wrote:Well it should be 100% but realistically, some people are so deep into it, they are psychologically incapable of admitting they were lied to and scammed by people they trusted.

My mind was changed in the debate about his health status but my vote didn't change. As I saw someone say somewhere, just because you realize Alfred is too old to run the bat cave it doesn't mean you put the joker in charge. Trump is a nonstarter, he'd have to be running against Putin himself to get me to even consider it.

Your view was already accounted for in the polls pre debate that showed Biden losing to Trump. This debate is turning on swing state independents.

True. The math is very simple now. Biden remains in the 2024 race = Trump wins. Biden does the right thing by withdrawing from the 2024 race very soon = Trump loses.

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Anonymous wrote:Well it should be 100% but realistically, some people are so deep into it, they are psychologically incapable of admitting they were lied to and scammed by people they trusted.

My mind was changed in the debate about his health status but my vote didn't change. As I saw someone say somewhere, just because you realize Alfred is too old to run the bat cave it doesn't mean you put the joker in charge. Trump is a nonstarter, he'd have to be running against Putin himself to get me to even consider it.

Your view was already accounted for in the polls pre debate that showed Biden losing to Trump. This debate is turning on swing state independents.

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Anonymous wrote:Well it should be 100% but realistically, some people are so deep into it, they are psychologically incapable of admitting they were lied to and scammed by people they trusted.

My mind was changed in the debate about his health status but my vote didn't change. As I saw someone say somewhere, just because you realize Alfred is too old to run the bat cave it doesn't mean you put the joker in charge. Trump is a nonstarter, he'd have to be running against Putin himself to get me to even consider it.

Your view was already accounted for in the polls pre debate that showed Biden losing to Trump. This debate is turning on swing state independents.

Polls don't REALLY matter until August. But I mean I'm not arguing that the debate wasn't rough.

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Anonymous wrote:Well it should be 100% but realistically, some people are so deep into it, they are psychologically incapable of admitting they were lied to and scammed by people they trusted.

My mind was changed in the debate about his health status but my vote didn't change. As I saw someone say somewhere, just because you realize Alfred is too old to run the bat cave it doesn't mean you put the joker in charge. Trump is a nonstarter, he'd have to be running against Putin himself to get me to even consider it.

Your view was already accounted for in the polls pre debate that showed Biden losing to Trump. This debate is turning on swing state independents.

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Anonymous wrote:Well it should be 100% but realistically, some people are so deep into it, they are psychologically incapable of admitting they were lied to and scammed by people they trusted.

My mind was changed in the debate about his health status but my vote didn't change. As I saw someone say somewhere, just because you realize Alfred is too old to run the bat cave it doesn't mean you put the joker in charge. Trump is a nonstarter, he'd have to be running against Putin himself to get me to even consider it.

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Anonymous wrote:Well it should be 100% but realistically, some people are so deep into it, they are psychologically incapable of admitting they were lied to and scammed by people they trusted.

My mind was changed in the debate about his health status but my vote didn't change. As I saw someone say somewhere, just because you realize Alfred is too old to run the bat cave it doesn't mean you put the joker in charge. Trump is a nonstarter, he'd have to be running against Putin himself to get me to even consider it.

Anonymous wrote:Well it should be 100% but realistically, some people are so deep into it, they are psychologically incapable of admitting they were lied to and scammed by people they trusted.

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Anonymous wrote:He isn’t stepping down. He won’t. He thinks he is fine and Jill wants to stay. That’s how much they believe in democracy. They aren’t going to give you a choice. It’s Biden. They believe so much in their own right to the job and the perks and the lifestyle that we don’t get a choice of anyone else to run against Trump. I never loved Biden but he was fine. Now I feel so much anger and contempt for him and his family that I’m out. Won’t vote for Trump but I will not support this. Call that a vote for Trump. Fine. But the DNC should have managed this better and it deserves to lose. And in my heart, much as I dislike Trump, I don’t view him as any more of threat to democracy than anyone else and frankly, he is coherent. Won’t vote for him but I don’t fear another Trump presidency.

Did you/do you have this much contempt for Trump as he is trying to dismantle our democracy?

I don’t believe that talking point. I think it is a scare tactic and always have. I won’t vote for him but believe that whole argument is bunk. But I won’t vote for Biden again. If the DNC replaces him, I will likely vote for that candidate. But the DNC and the Biden family have hidden the situation and lied about it and I feel betrayed and angry and will not support them.

You are betrayed by the Biden family but not Trump? Why?

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Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Young people and 1st time voters aren't predictable or reliable. In the case of the 2024 election, I can't see them being duped into voting for Trump or Biden like we'll see with so many of the older folks that refuse to admit they were wrong. They'll look at two elderly people that have no business being POTUS until 2029 on the major party tickets and most will vote 3rd party or choose not to vote at all. Can't say I blame them. Let's hope Biden drops out of the race so we don't have to worry about this.

But the 2022 and 2023 elections seem to counter your argument. Once abortion rigths are on the ballot, as they were in 2022 and 2023 in Kansas, Ohio, Kentucky and Virginia, the 18-35 demographics came out in record numbers. Many who had never voted, registered. And many who had been registered, but never voted, voted. And they came out about 60-85% in favor of the abortion rights issue. This year, you have a candidate who is beholden to his conservative base who will be pushed very hard by his die hard followers, to try and legislate and pass nationwide abortion bans. He has come out and said he would not push for that, but he has not said that if Congress sends him a bill, that he will not sign it. He's only said he will not push the legislation himself. Additionally, he has been known to frequently lie about his platform. He will say whatever is expedient and do whatever is in his own best interests, consistently. So, if Congress sends him a bill and it is in his best interest to sign it, he will sign it. If he can bargain some personal gain for himself, he'll sign it.

Young voters know very well that the Republican ticket will be advocating for and try hard to pass a national abortion ban law. And they know that Democrats will try to prevent that and secure more abortion rights nation-wide. And who is most impacted by having abortion rights? Those voters who are in their prime child-bearing years and who will have to make the most decisions about family planning, e.g. the 18-24 and 25-34 year old demographics. These are the people who will have to decide whether a child will completely change their lives and life plans, who will have to decide whether a child with severe complications will work for their family, whether the child is important enough to risk the mother's health and or life, and so on. They want to have the choice to do what is best based on what their doctor's recommend, so they want to have the options that families have had for the last 50 years.

Also remember that those who are under 26 were not eligible to vote in 2016 and those who are under 22 were not eligible to vote in 2020. There are a lot of people who have not had the option to weigh in on whether these candidates were the right choices, and now they do. And with one of the most important issues for themselves on the ballot, they'll come out to vote. Those demographics care much more about whether they have the personal right to make a choice about if, whether, or when to have a family than about immigration and illegal aliens.

I agree and all we need is a normal/viable Dem candidate to carry this momentum to a victory in the 2024 election. Let's pray Biden does the right thing.

But, even without changing candidates, I still think that the unregistered young demographics will do what they did in 2022 and 2023, they will come out and register to vote and will vote for the party platform that will protect their right to make bodily and reproductive decisions. There are very few young men who want to have a child and child obligations for living their lives, dating, and having sex with their partners. And there are very few young women who want to have their lives derailed because of failed contraception. And there are many young couples who do not want to be forced into a decision that is wrong for them, threatens their health or lives or forces them to do something that could destroy them financially, such as being forced to carry a child that will not survive more than a few weeks past birth, and be saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical costs that insurance will not fully cover.

These are the things that the critical young demographic can see and whether or not Biden is still on the ticket or not, they'll vote that way. There are relatively few unregistered voters or registered non-voters that are coming out to support the Republican party. Most of those (the fringe elements like gun advocates, domestic terrorist groups like Oath Breakers, Proud Boys, etc) came out in 2020, which is why Trump had record numbers. They are already accounted for and there aren't that many who are still going to come out.

But the youth vote did not come out because they are mostly politically apathetic. Until Roe v Wade happened. Now, they won't be so complacent, since an issue that is very important to them is on the ballot. They will come out just like they did in 2022 and 2023 to protect their own rights.

Really? What exactly are you saying? Would you rather Biden stay in the race with the hopes that enough young voters vote blue to give him a 50/50 chance of winning or would you rather Biden get out of the way so that we have a 99% chance of beating Trump? Do you enjoy excitement of a close presidential race so much that you'd risk handing Trump four more years in power? Not me. I think you're well meaning but misguided and you need to rethink what is most important.

No. I am saying that I have very little vote in whether or not Biden steps down or not. This is a decision that will be made at the top levels of the Democratic National Convention, and is not going to be influenced by polls or grass roots actions. Even if grass roots voters or polls had an effect, I'm not even a registered Democrat, so I have even less influence/effect on such a decision.

All I am saying is regardless of whether Biden steps down or not, I am a staunch anti-Trump voter who will vote to keep Trump from office. And I think that there are enough anti-Trump votes, combined wth the younger demographics who will come out strongly in favor of the Democratic ticket, soley to protect their own personal rights. And I think that this will be enought to keep Trump from winning the November election.

I'm not advocating one way or another for Biden.

Fair enough. I think the decision is Biden's and Biden's alone. I also have faith that he will do the right thing and that right thing will give us the guarantee of a victory over Trump. Could Biden still win if he chooses to stay in race? Possibly, but it's far from the guarantee we should be looking for.

The problem is the same problem there's been all along - there is no guarantee of victory if he steps down, either. There is no guarantee either way./ No matter what it is going to be a tight race, with a few thousand voters in a few swing states making the difference - and there is simply no crystal ball that tells us what's going to get those voters and what'll turn them away.

You would think rape and 34 felonies would be decisive but it's not. So you go and try to game out what's going to be decisive here, too.

No guarantee of victory??? How so? Do you think swing voters are complete idiots? They aren't. If you put a normal/competent candidate next to Trump as Trump's opposition in the 2024 race, it will be a no-brainer decision for the majority of swing voters. No-brainer!! Are you familiar with how awful and weak of a candidate Trump is? Have you been living under a rock? Trump has a chance to beat Biden for obvious reasons but he isn't beating any average or better than average candidate. This isn't rocket science folks.

So explain to us, then, why Nikki Haily could only take Guam from Trump in the primaries? She never won more than 20% of the vote in any single jurisdiction. And the other candidates, including DeSantis, Asa Hutchinson, Chris Christie all fared much worse. While you can debate whether they were normal, they were certainly competent and were much more normal than Trump. All four of these named were successful state governors who ran their respective states for two terms, so each had been reelected to a second term. Combined all four did not come close to a majority against Trump.

When it comes to the Democratic side, Harris, Buttigieg, Booker, Klobuchar, none of them even had enough support to win more than one state of electors. Whitmer and Newsom are both very, very polarizing figures and would not be guaranteed to win 50% of the Independent vote and certainly not in swing states.

SOme of you seem so very, very sure about that above statement, but it's pure conjecture and not even polls suggest that the idea has enough merit to completely overturn the primary and electorate process for a "What If?" scenario. You need to have a solid idea, more than wishful thinking and a whimsical idea to try and make a change at this stage of the game.

We aren't "making a change" at this stage of the game. It's Biden's decision. We can only hope that he chooses to withdraw from the race so that a normal candidate can crush Trump. It's as simple as that. The ball is Joe's court. If he makes the wrong decision, we'll likely be looking as another 4 years of Trump. If he does the right thing, we'll have a competent leader until 2029.

How he can choose to withdraw if he is clueless that he is in presidential race?

Biden has enough brains and decency left in him to know that if he doesn't back out of the race, he'll be granting Trump four more years as POTUS. Biden will leave The White House the same day the new Dem president moves in on Inauguration Day 2025.

Is that why there’s talk of moving up the nomination date?

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Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Young people and 1st time voters aren't predictable or reliable. In the case of the 2024 election, I can't see them being duped into voting for Trump or Biden like we'll see with so many of the older folks that refuse to admit they were wrong. They'll look at two elderly people that have no business being POTUS until 2029 on the major party tickets and most will vote 3rd party or choose not to vote at all. Can't say I blame them. Let's hope Biden drops out of the race so we don't have to worry about this.

But the 2022 and 2023 elections seem to counter your argument. Once abortion rigths are on the ballot, as they were in 2022 and 2023 in Kansas, Ohio, Kentucky and Virginia, the 18-35 demographics came out in record numbers. Many who had never voted, registered. And many who had been registered, but never voted, voted. And they came out about 60-85% in favor of the abortion rights issue. This year, you have a candidate who is beholden to his conservative base who will be pushed very hard by his die hard followers, to try and legislate and pass nationwide abortion bans. He has come out and said he would not push for that, but he has not said that if Congress sends him a bill, that he will not sign it. He's only said he will not push the legislation himself. Additionally, he has been known to frequently lie about his platform. He will say whatever is expedient and do whatever is in his own best interests, consistently. So, if Congress sends him a bill and it is in his best interest to sign it, he will sign it. If he can bargain some personal gain for himself, he'll sign it.

Young voters know very well that the Republican ticket will be advocating for and try hard to pass a national abortion ban law. And they know that Democrats will try to prevent that and secure more abortion rights nation-wide. And who is most impacted by having abortion rights? Those voters who are in their prime child-bearing years and who will have to make the most decisions about family planning, e.g. the 18-24 and 25-34 year old demographics. These are the people who will have to decide whether a child will completely change their lives and life plans, who will have to decide whether a child with severe complications will work for their family, whether the child is important enough to risk the mother's health and or life, and so on. They want to have the choice to do what is best based on what their doctor's recommend, so they want to have the options that families have had for the last 50 years.

Also remember that those who are under 26 were not eligible to vote in 2016 and those who are under 22 were not eligible to vote in 2020. There are a lot of people who have not had the option to weigh in on whether these candidates were the right choices, and now they do. And with one of the most important issues for themselves on the ballot, they'll come out to vote. Those demographics care much more about whether they have the personal right to make a choice about if, whether, or when to have a family than about immigration and illegal aliens.

I agree and all we need is a normal/viable Dem candidate to carry this momentum to a victory in the 2024 election. Let's pray Biden does the right thing.

But, even without changing candidates, I still think that the unregistered young demographics will do what they did in 2022 and 2023, they will come out and register to vote and will vote for the party platform that will protect their right to make bodily and reproductive decisions. There are very few young men who want to have a child and child obligations for living their lives, dating, and having sex with their partners. And there are very few young women who want to have their lives derailed because of failed contraception. And there are many young couples who do not want to be forced into a decision that is wrong for them, threatens their health or lives or forces them to do something that could destroy them financially, such as being forced to carry a child that will not survive more than a few weeks past birth, and be saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical costs that insurance will not fully cover.

These are the things that the critical young demographic can see and whether or not Biden is still on the ticket or not, they'll vote that way. There are relatively few unregistered voters or registered non-voters that are coming out to support the Republican party. Most of those (the fringe elements like gun advocates, domestic terrorist groups like Oath Breakers, Proud Boys, etc) came out in 2020, which is why Trump had record numbers. They are already accounted for and there aren't that many who are still going to come out.

But the youth vote did not come out because they are mostly politically apathetic. Until Roe v Wade happened. Now, they won't be so complacent, since an issue that is very important to them is on the ballot. They will come out just like they did in 2022 and 2023 to protect their own rights.

Really? What exactly are you saying? Would you rather Biden stay in the race with the hopes that enough young voters vote blue to give him a 50/50 chance of winning or would you rather Biden get out of the way so that we have a 99% chance of beating Trump? Do you enjoy excitement of a close presidential race so much that you'd risk handing Trump four more years in power? Not me. I think you're well meaning but misguided and you need to rethink what is most important.

No. I am saying that I have very little vote in whether or not Biden steps down or not. This is a decision that will be made at the top levels of the Democratic National Convention, and is not going to be influenced by polls or grass roots actions. Even if grass roots voters or polls had an effect, I'm not even a registered Democrat, so I have even less influence/effect on such a decision.

All I am saying is regardless of whether Biden steps down or not, I am a staunch anti-Trump voter who will vote to keep Trump from office. And I think that there are enough anti-Trump votes, combined wth the younger demographics who will come out strongly in favor of the Democratic ticket, soley to protect their own personal rights. And I think that this will be enought to keep Trump from winning the November election.

I'm not advocating one way or another for Biden.

Fair enough. I think the decision is Biden's and Biden's alone. I also have faith that he will do the right thing and that right thing will give us the guarantee of a victory over Trump. Could Biden still win if he chooses to stay in race? Possibly, but it's far from the guarantee we should be looking for.

The problem is the same problem there's been all along - there is no guarantee of victory if he steps down, either. There is no guarantee either way./ No matter what it is going to be a tight race, with a few thousand voters in a few swing states making the difference - and there is simply no crystal ball that tells us what's going to get those voters and what'll turn them away.

You would think rape and 34 felonies would be decisive but it's not. So you go and try to game out what's going to be decisive here, too.

No guarantee of victory??? How so? Do you think swing voters are complete idiots? They aren't. If you put a normal/competent candidate next to Trump as Trump's opposition in the 2024 race, it will be a no-brainer decision for the majority of swing voters. No-brainer!! Are you familiar with how awful and weak of a candidate Trump is? Have you been living under a rock? Trump has a chance to beat Biden for obvious reasons but he isn't beating any average or better than average candidate. This isn't rocket science folks.

So explain to us, then, why Nikki Haily could only take Guam from Trump in the primaries? She never won more than 20% of the vote in any single jurisdiction. And the other candidates, including DeSantis, Asa Hutchinson, Chris Christie all fared much worse. While you can debate whether they were normal, they were certainly competent and were much more normal than Trump. All four of these named were successful state governors who ran their respective states for two terms, so each had been reelected to a second term. Combined all four did not come close to a majority against Trump.

When it comes to the Democratic side, Harris, Buttigieg, Booker, Klobuchar, none of them even had enough support to win more than one state of electors. Whitmer and Newsom are both very, very polarizing figures and would not be guaranteed to win 50% of the Independent vote and certainly not in swing states.

SOme of you seem so very, very sure about that above statement, but it's pure conjecture and not even polls suggest that the idea has enough merit to completely overturn the primary and electorate process for a "What If?" scenario. You need to have a solid idea, more than wishful thinking and a whimsical idea to try and make a change at this stage of the game.

We aren't "making a change" at this stage of the game. It's Biden's decision. We can only hope that he chooses to withdraw from the race so that a normal candidate can crush Trump. It's as simple as that. The ball is Joe's court. If he makes the wrong decision, we'll likely be looking as another 4 years of Trump. If he does the right thing, we'll have a competent leader until 2029.

How he can choose to withdraw if he is clueless that he is in presidential race?

Biden has enough brains and decency left in him to know that if he doesn't back out of the race, he'll be granting Trump four more years as POTUS. Biden will leave The White House the same day the new Dem president moves in on Inauguration Day 2025.

Biden had one bad night and you all want him to step down? I think he’s done a phenomenal job as POTUS. He is our best bet for 2024.

Umkay MAGA troll

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Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Young people and 1st time voters aren't predictable or reliable. In the case of the 2024 election, I can't see them being duped into voting for Trump or Biden like we'll see with so many of the older folks that refuse to admit they were wrong. They'll look at two elderly people that have no business being POTUS until 2029 on the major party tickets and most will vote 3rd party or choose not to vote at all. Can't say I blame them. Let's hope Biden drops out of the race so we don't have to worry about this.

But the 2022 and 2023 elections seem to counter your argument. Once abortion rigths are on the ballot, as they were in 2022 and 2023 in Kansas, Ohio, Kentucky and Virginia, the 18-35 demographics came out in record numbers. Many who had never voted, registered. And many who had been registered, but never voted, voted. And they came out about 60-85% in favor of the abortion rights issue. This year, you have a candidate who is beholden to his conservative base who will be pushed very hard by his die hard followers, to try and legislate and pass nationwide abortion bans. He has come out and said he would not push for that, but he has not said that if Congress sends him a bill, that he will not sign it. He's only said he will not push the legislation himself. Additionally, he has been known to frequently lie about his platform. He will say whatever is expedient and do whatever is in his own best interests, consistently. So, if Congress sends him a bill and it is in his best interest to sign it, he will sign it. If he can bargain some personal gain for himself, he'll sign it.

Young voters know very well that the Republican ticket will be advocating for and try hard to pass a national abortion ban law. And they know that Democrats will try to prevent that and secure more abortion rights nation-wide. And who is most impacted by having abortion rights? Those voters who are in their prime child-bearing years and who will have to make the most decisions about family planning, e.g. the 18-24 and 25-34 year old demographics. These are the people who will have to decide whether a child will completely change their lives and life plans, who will have to decide whether a child with severe complications will work for their family, whether the child is important enough to risk the mother's health and or life, and so on. They want to have the choice to do what is best based on what their doctor's recommend, so they want to have the options that families have had for the last 50 years.

Also remember that those who are under 26 were not eligible to vote in 2016 and those who are under 22 were not eligible to vote in 2020. There are a lot of people who have not had the option to weigh in on whether these candidates were the right choices, and now they do. And with one of the most important issues for themselves on the ballot, they'll come out to vote. Those demographics care much more about whether they have the personal right to make a choice about if, whether, or when to have a family than about immigration and illegal aliens.

I agree and all we need is a normal/viable Dem candidate to carry this momentum to a victory in the 2024 election. Let's pray Biden does the right thing.

But, even without changing candidates, I still think that the unregistered young demographics will do what they did in 2022 and 2023, they will come out and register to vote and will vote for the party platform that will protect their right to make bodily and reproductive decisions. There are very few young men who want to have a child and child obligations for living their lives, dating, and having sex with their partners. And there are very few young women who want to have their lives derailed because of failed contraception. And there are many young couples who do not want to be forced into a decision that is wrong for them, threatens their health or lives or forces them to do something that could destroy them financially, such as being forced to carry a child that will not survive more than a few weeks past birth, and be saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical costs that insurance will not fully cover.

These are the things that the critical young demographic can see and whether or not Biden is still on the ticket or not, they'll vote that way. There are relatively few unregistered voters or registered non-voters that are coming out to support the Republican party. Most of those (the fringe elements like gun advocates, domestic terrorist groups like Oath Breakers, Proud Boys, etc) came out in 2020, which is why Trump had record numbers. They are already accounted for and there aren't that many who are still going to come out.

But the youth vote did not come out because they are mostly politically apathetic. Until Roe v Wade happened. Now, they won't be so complacent, since an issue that is very important to them is on the ballot. They will come out just like they did in 2022 and 2023 to protect their own rights.

Really? What exactly are you saying? Would you rather Biden stay in the race with the hopes that enough young voters vote blue to give him a 50/50 chance of winning or would you rather Biden get out of the way so that we have a 99% chance of beating Trump? Do you enjoy excitement of a close presidential race so much that you'd risk handing Trump four more years in power? Not me. I think you're well meaning but misguided and you need to rethink what is most important.

No. I am saying that I have very little vote in whether or not Biden steps down or not. This is a decision that will be made at the top levels of the Democratic National Convention, and is not going to be influenced by polls or grass roots actions. Even if grass roots voters or polls had an effect, I'm not even a registered Democrat, so I have even less influence/effect on such a decision.

All I am saying is regardless of whether Biden steps down or not, I am a staunch anti-Trump voter who will vote to keep Trump from office. And I think that there are enough anti-Trump votes, combined wth the younger demographics who will come out strongly in favor of the Democratic ticket, soley to protect their own personal rights. And I think that this will be enought to keep Trump from winning the November election.

I'm not advocating one way or another for Biden.

Fair enough. I think the decision is Biden's and Biden's alone. I also have faith that he will do the right thing and that right thing will give us the guarantee of a victory over Trump. Could Biden still win if he chooses to stay in race? Possibly, but it's far from the guarantee we should be looking for.

The problem is the same problem there's been all along - there is no guarantee of victory if he steps down, either. There is no guarantee either way./ No matter what it is going to be a tight race, with a few thousand voters in a few swing states making the difference - and there is simply no crystal ball that tells us what's going to get those voters and what'll turn them away.

You would think rape and 34 felonies would be decisive but it's not. So you go and try to game out what's going to be decisive here, too.

No guarantee of victory??? How so? Do you think swing voters are complete idiots? They aren't. If you put a normal/competent candidate next to Trump as Trump's opposition in the 2024 race, it will be a no-brainer decision for the majority of swing voters. No-brainer!! Are you familiar with how awful and weak of a candidate Trump is? Have you been living under a rock? Trump has a chance to beat Biden for obvious reasons but he isn't beating any average or better than average candidate. This isn't rocket science folks.

So explain to us, then, why Nikki Haily could only take Guam from Trump in the primaries? She never won more than 20% of the vote in any single jurisdiction. And the other candidates, including DeSantis, Asa Hutchinson, Chris Christie all fared much worse. While you can debate whether they were normal, they were certainly competent and were much more normal than Trump. All four of these named were successful state governors who ran their respective states for two terms, so each had been reelected to a second term. Combined all four did not come close to a majority against Trump.

When it comes to the Democratic side, Harris, Buttigieg, Booker, Klobuchar, none of them even had enough support to win more than one state of electors. Whitmer and Newsom are both very, very polarizing figures and would not be guaranteed to win 50% of the Independent vote and certainly not in swing states.

SOme of you seem so very, very sure about that above statement, but it's pure conjecture and not even polls suggest that the idea has enough merit to completely overturn the primary and electorate process for a "What If?" scenario. You need to have a solid idea, more than wishful thinking and a whimsical idea to try and make a change at this stage of the game.

We aren't "making a change" at this stage of the game. It's Biden's decision. We can only hope that he chooses to withdraw from the race so that a normal candidate can crush Trump. It's as simple as that. The ball is Joe's court. If he makes the wrong decision, we'll likely be looking as another 4 years of Trump. If he does the right thing, we'll have a competent leader until 2029.

How he can choose to withdraw if he is clueless that he is in presidential race?

Biden has enough brains and decency left in him to know that if he doesn't back out of the race, he'll be granting Trump four more years as POTUS. Biden will leave The White House the same day the new Dem president moves in on Inauguration Day 2025.