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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings. :roll:

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

If dad lives a distance away and working full time, you have to be reasonable especially if all activities are near mom not dad. A 7 years olds priority should be a relationship with both parents over activities. This mom is petty and unreasonable.

This is absurd. In this hypothetical (or real situation), the mom is the one working full time, not taking any child support, and paying for and getting the kids to all their activities. "Petty" is the last applicable adjective. Try selfless, loving, and putting the child first. The dad here is lazy and self-centered, and his existence only serves to cause problems in people's lives - he doesn't pay a share of any activities, doesn't pay child support, and doesn't do any of the driving. This is likely the parent who doesn't know the name of the child's dentist or pediatrician. Genders can easily be reversed in this scenario if the mom is the one who doesn't do any parenting (who gets in the way and doesn't provide support). It's the parent on another thread who protested letting his child attend a school band concert. Who does that? To him, parenting time is the last vestige of power or control he can exert over other people's lives. He is a liability. The bigger parent plays defense and tries to mitigate the damage. Kids figure it out, and there are lifelong repercussions. They know who butters their bread. The crap parent gets cut out when the child is no longer legally required to spend time with them.

There is no evidence dad is lazy or not involved. Child support may not be appropriate. If mom is the sole decision maker and paid for the activities without dad’s consent she can drive them. Simple. You are making assumptions he is a bad dad without the entire story.

Mom isn't the sole decision maker. The kid asked to to the activity. It's about the kid, not the mom/ex. That's where you're so so wrong. And where the dad is wrong for refusing to support their kid.

If logistically it doesn’t work for dad on his time, mom needs to do it on her time. She confidently does. Discuss the location, time, etc.

You can't do team sports, play in an orchestra, or act in the school play on only certain days when you're with one parent. This position turns a child into the prisoner of an unhealthy parent. It's going to backfire - why even ask for parenting time at all if the end result is that your kid grows to resent you and you have no relationship later in life? Be a halfway decent human being and show up for your kid or get out of the way.

You can if both parents work together and cooperate. If mom signs up the kid in dad’s time and he is unable due to the location she can step in and drive to the activity and dads house.

But that's the thing--we are talking about a situation where one of the parent refuses to work together and cooperate. Kid asks to play soccer so parent #1 signs him up. The league informs them that the kid has been assigned to a team that practices on Tuesday and Thursday. Parent #2 says "No way is my kid practicing on Tuesdays! That's MY day." Parent #1 offers to drive kid to Tuesday practice, or switch and let parent #2 have Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays --but no. Parent #2 refuses to accommodate. So now, kid can't play soccer because you can't miss half the practices and stay on the team.
Examples like this have come up MANY times on DCUM.

First, you ask about dates and times BEFORE you sign them up. That's common sense. Second, if you want the other parent to take them, you make it convenient for you. If Dad is already doing all the drop off and pick ups an hour a way (that's at least two hours round trip) and working, it may simply be a time issue. Or, if the time is when Dad has to work. And, if switching says doesn't work, that's ok. You are making up stuff to make Dad out to be a bad parent without discussion all the other factors that go into it.

My kid misses lots of their sport for other things. You know what, it's ok. We email the coach and let them know. Done.

First, a lot of sports/activities/leagues won't tell you the dates and times until AFTER you have registered/tried out. Sometimes it's because they need to know how many participants/teams they will field, sometimes it's because of the (volunteer) coaches' schedules...there are many working parts and they can't always give you answers before you commit. That's just the way it is.

Second, well sure if parent one wants to make it convenient for themselves. Did you mis-type what you wrote? But often parent #1 is even willing to make it inconvenient for themselves but parent #2 still won't budge.

If your kid is missing lots of things for their sport and your coach is cool with it, your kid is very young and not playing in a competitve league. That's not going to work as your kid progresses and wants to play at higher levels.

Mine are in multiple activities and no they are not young and they are in two very competitive programs. Good try. They all give us the schedules in advance and we work around things but the complications comes in with HS school activities as well. You think activities are more important than spending limited time with a parent. Yea for you. you find an activity that gives you the schedule in advanced.

Unless you were the kids coach you know exactly what she's talking about. Come on. Don't even get me started on weekday baseball games and playoffs.

You get a schedule in advance. Be real. Or find a better organized team. We do club teams and high level music and arts. Multiple programs per child and we know in dance. And, know the conflicts in advance. But, that does not work for everyone with work, commutes and multiple kids and other obligations like elder care.

You are not divorced so what are you obsessing over this?

I’m another Not Divorced person and I’ll tell you why the subject interests me— because everyone else on the team watches this unfold and feels sorry for the kid. The good parents (single and married) try to help out the parent who is trying to make it work for her child and we despise the person too lazy to let their kid keep their extra curricular. People should know how their actions are viewed.

+1
You think the rest of the team doesn't notice?

But do you know the whole story? Or just what the one parent tells you?

There really isn’t a big two-sides mystery when the kid did the same team/sport for the whole time the parents were married, and then one parent suddenly can’t be bothered to take them to activities and the other parent is left constantly asking for favors of rescheduling so the kid isn’t forced to miss out on something they put so much time and effort into.

Yeah if this was someone brand new to the team and one parent constantly blamed the other parent for the kid missing practices/games I might think there are two sides to the story, but this just isn’t a mystery— it’s a bad parent, and everyone including the kid can see it.

There could be lots of reasons why. Are you really that clueless? Maybe mom set the schedule knowing dad could not do it to get back at him to take away his time like you’d do.

My kid misses practices and other things. Really. It’s ok.

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

If dad lives a distance away and working full time, you have to be reasonable especially if all activities are near mom not dad. A 7 years olds priority should be a relationship with both parents over activities. This mom is petty and unreasonable.

This is absurd. In this hypothetical (or real situation), the mom is the one working full time, not taking any child support, and paying for and getting the kids to all their activities. "Petty" is the last applicable adjective. Try selfless, loving, and putting the child first. The dad here is lazy and self-centered, and his existence only serves to cause problems in people's lives - he doesn't pay a share of any activities, doesn't pay child support, and doesn't do any of the driving. This is likely the parent who doesn't know the name of the child's dentist or pediatrician. Genders can easily be reversed in this scenario if the mom is the one who doesn't do any parenting (who gets in the way and doesn't provide support). It's the parent on another thread who protested letting his child attend a school band concert. Who does that? To him, parenting time is the last vestige of power or control he can exert over other people's lives. He is a liability. The bigger parent plays defense and tries to mitigate the damage. Kids figure it out, and there are lifelong repercussions. They know who butters their bread. The crap parent gets cut out when the child is no longer legally required to spend time with them.

There is no evidence dad is lazy or not involved. Child support may not be appropriate. If mom is the sole decision maker and paid for the activities without dad’s consent she can drive them. Simple. You are making assumptions he is a bad dad without the entire story.

Mom isn't the sole decision maker. The kid asked to to the activity. It's about the kid, not the mom/ex. That's where you're so so wrong. And where the dad is wrong for refusing to support their kid.

If logistically it doesn’t work for dad on his time, mom needs to do it on her time. She confidently does. Discuss the location, time, etc.

You can't do team sports, play in an orchestra, or act in the school play on only certain days when you're with one parent. This position turns a child into the prisoner of an unhealthy parent. It's going to backfire - why even ask for parenting time at all if the end result is that your kid grows to resent you and you have no relationship later in life? Be a halfway decent human being and show up for your kid or get out of the way.

You can if both parents work together and cooperate. If mom signs up the kid in dad’s time and he is unable due to the location she can step in and drive to the activity and dads house.

But that's the thing--we are talking about a situation where one of the parent refuses to work together and cooperate. Kid asks to play soccer so parent #1 signs him up. The league informs them that the kid has been assigned to a team that practices on Tuesday and Thursday. Parent #2 says "No way is my kid practicing on Tuesdays! That's MY day." Parent #1 offers to drive kid to Tuesday practice, or switch and let parent #2 have Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays --but no. Parent #2 refuses to accommodate. So now, kid can't play soccer because you can't miss half the practices and stay on the team.
Examples like this have come up MANY times on DCUM.

First, you ask about dates and times BEFORE you sign them up. That's common sense. Second, if you want the other parent to take them, you make it convenient for you. If Dad is already doing all the drop off and pick ups an hour a way (that's at least two hours round trip) and working, it may simply be a time issue. Or, if the time is when Dad has to work. And, if switching says doesn't work, that's ok. You are making up stuff to make Dad out to be a bad parent without discussion all the other factors that go into it.

My kid misses lots of their sport for other things. You know what, it's ok. We email the coach and let them know. Done.

First, a lot of sports/activities/leagues won't tell you the dates and times until AFTER you have registered/tried out. Sometimes it's because they need to know how many participants/teams they will field, sometimes it's because of the (volunteer) coaches' schedules...there are many working parts and they can't always give you answers before you commit. That's just the way it is.

Second, well sure if parent one wants to make it convenient for themselves. Did you mis-type what you wrote? But often parent #1 is even willing to make it inconvenient for themselves but parent #2 still won't budge.

If your kid is missing lots of things for their sport and your coach is cool with it, your kid is very young and not playing in a competitve league. That's not going to work as your kid progresses and wants to play at higher levels.

Mine are in multiple activities and no they are not young and they are in two very competitive programs. Good try. They all give us the schedules in advance and we work around things but the complications comes in with HS school activities as well. You think activities are more important than spending limited time with a parent. Yea for you. you find an activity that gives you the schedule in advanced.

Unless you were the kids coach you know exactly what she's talking about. Come on. Don't even get me started on weekday baseball games and playoffs.

You get a schedule in advance. Be real. Or find a better organized team. We do club teams and high level music and arts. Multiple programs per child and we know in dance. And, know the conflicts in advance. But, that does not work for everyone with work, commutes and multiple kids and other obligations like elder care.

You are not divorced so what are you obsessing over this?

This just shows how out of touch you are. There's not a single rec sport in our county where you get the schedule in advance. For spring soccer, for instance, you sign up in January. The coach gets the roster in March. A week later the coach gets to put in several bids for a practice slot. We're supposed to get the game schedule in 1-2 weeks, so early April? There was zero ability to know the schedule at the time we signed up. Same for all the county sports. For swim team we have to sign up in May for the following year and get their practice slot in August. The one we got this year is incredibly inconvenient for our family and so I've literally been on waitlists since August trying to get it changed. In this area you get what you get and you don't get upset.

Heck, this is even true with Girl Scout camps. I had to put my daughter in a lottery in January and didn't find out until mid-February what week she would go to sleep away camp. She wanted to go to a particular camp so we had to apply to multiple weeks to give her a chance of getting a spot. She got her third choice week.

You are out of touch. Find a different team with a set schedule. We do club sports and there is a set schedule. Your rec sports are for fun not competition and dads time and decisions should be respected. It’s not fair to sign up a kid and not respect his schedule.

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

If dad lives a distance away and working full time, you have to be reasonable especially if all activities are near mom not dad. A 7 years olds priority should be a relationship with both parents over activities. This mom is petty and unreasonable.

This is absurd. In this hypothetical (or real situation), the mom is the one working full time, not taking any child support, and paying for and getting the kids to all their activities. "Petty" is the last applicable adjective. Try selfless, loving, and putting the child first. The dad here is lazy and self-centered, and his existence only serves to cause problems in people's lives - he doesn't pay a share of any activities, doesn't pay child support, and doesn't do any of the driving. This is likely the parent who doesn't know the name of the child's dentist or pediatrician. Genders can easily be reversed in this scenario if the mom is the one who doesn't do any parenting (who gets in the way and doesn't provide support). It's the parent on another thread who protested letting his child attend a school band concert. Who does that? To him, parenting time is the last vestige of power or control he can exert over other people's lives. He is a liability. The bigger parent plays defense and tries to mitigate the damage. Kids figure it out, and there are lifelong repercussions. They know who butters their bread. The crap parent gets cut out when the child is no longer legally required to spend time with them.

There is no evidence dad is lazy or not involved. Child support may not be appropriate. If mom is the sole decision maker and paid for the activities without dad’s consent she can drive them. Simple. You are making assumptions he is a bad dad without the entire story.

Mom isn't the sole decision maker. The kid asked to to the activity. It's about the kid, not the mom/ex. That's where you're so so wrong. And where the dad is wrong for refusing to support their kid.

If logistically it doesn’t work for dad on his time, mom needs to do it on her time. She confidently does. Discuss the location, time, etc.

You can't do team sports, play in an orchestra, or act in the school play on only certain days when you're with one parent. This position turns a child into the prisoner of an unhealthy parent. It's going to backfire - why even ask for parenting time at all if the end result is that your kid grows to resent you and you have no relationship later in life? Be a halfway decent human being and show up for your kid or get out of the way.

You can if both parents work together and cooperate. If mom signs up the kid in dad’s time and he is unable due to the location she can step in and drive to the activity and dads house.

But that's the thing--we are talking about a situation where one of the parent refuses to work together and cooperate. Kid asks to play soccer so parent #1 signs him up. The league informs them that the kid has been assigned to a team that practices on Tuesday and Thursday. Parent #2 says "No way is my kid practicing on Tuesdays! That's MY day." Parent #1 offers to drive kid to Tuesday practice, or switch and let parent #2 have Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays --but no. Parent #2 refuses to accommodate. So now, kid can't play soccer because you can't miss half the practices and stay on the team.
Examples like this have come up MANY times on DCUM.

First, you ask about dates and times BEFORE you sign them up. That's common sense. Second, if you want the other parent to take them, you make it convenient for you. If Dad is already doing all the drop off and pick ups an hour a way (that's at least two hours round trip) and working, it may simply be a time issue. Or, if the time is when Dad has to work. And, if switching says doesn't work, that's ok. You are making up stuff to make Dad out to be a bad parent without discussion all the other factors that go into it.

My kid misses lots of their sport for other things. You know what, it's ok. We email the coach and let them know. Done.

First, a lot of sports/activities/leagues won't tell you the dates and times until AFTER you have registered/tried out. Sometimes it's because they need to know how many participants/teams they will field, sometimes it's because of the (volunteer) coaches' schedules...there are many working parts and they can't always give you answers before you commit. That's just the way it is.

Second, well sure if parent one wants to make it convenient for themselves. Did you mis-type what you wrote? But often parent #1 is even willing to make it inconvenient for themselves but parent #2 still won't budge.

If your kid is missing lots of things for their sport and your coach is cool with it, your kid is very young and not playing in a competitve league. That's not going to work as your kid progresses and wants to play at higher levels.

Mine are in multiple activities and no they are not young and they are in two very competitive programs. Good try. They all give us the schedules in advance and we work around things but the complications comes in with HS school activities as well. You think activities are more important than spending limited time with a parent. Yea for you. you find an activity that gives you the schedule in advanced.

Unless you were the kids coach you know exactly what she's talking about. Come on. Don't even get me started on weekday baseball games and playoffs.

You get a schedule in advance. Be real. Or find a better organized team. We do club teams and high level music and arts. Multiple programs per child and we know in dance. And, know the conflicts in advance. But, that does not work for everyone with work, commutes and multiple kids and other obligations like elder care.

You are not divorced so what are you obsessing over this?

This just shows how out of touch you are. There's not a single rec sport in our county where you get the schedule in advance. For spring soccer, for instance, you sign up in January. The coach gets the roster in March. A week later the coach gets to put in several bids for a practice slot. We're supposed to get the game schedule in 1-2 weeks, so early April? There was zero ability to know the schedule at the time we signed up. Same for all the county sports. For swim team we have to sign up in May for the following year and get their practice slot in August. The one we got this year is incredibly inconvenient for our family and so I've literally been on waitlists since August trying to get it changed. In this area you get what you get and you don't get upset.

Heck, this is even true with Girl Scout camps. I had to put my daughter in a lottery in January and didn't find out until mid-February what week she would go to sleep away camp. She wanted to go to a particular camp so we had to apply to multiple weeks to give her a chance of getting a spot. She got her third choice week.

You are out of touch. Find a different team with a set schedule. We do club sports and there is a set schedule. Your rec sports are for fun not competition and dads time and decisions should be respected. It’s not fair to sign up a kid and not respect his schedule.

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings. :roll:

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

If dad lives a distance away and working full time, you have to be reasonable especially if all activities are near mom not dad. A 7 years olds priority should be a relationship with both parents over activities. This mom is petty and unreasonable.

This is absurd. In this hypothetical (or real situation), the mom is the one working full time, not taking any child support, and paying for and getting the kids to all their activities. "Petty" is the last applicable adjective. Try selfless, loving, and putting the child first. The dad here is lazy and self-centered, and his existence only serves to cause problems in people's lives - he doesn't pay a share of any activities, doesn't pay child support, and doesn't do any of the driving. This is likely the parent who doesn't know the name of the child's dentist or pediatrician. Genders can easily be reversed in this scenario if the mom is the one who doesn't do any parenting (who gets in the way and doesn't provide support). It's the parent on another thread who protested letting his child attend a school band concert. Who does that? To him, parenting time is the last vestige of power or control he can exert over other people's lives. He is a liability. The bigger parent plays defense and tries to mitigate the damage. Kids figure it out, and there are lifelong repercussions. They know who butters their bread. The crap parent gets cut out when the child is no longer legally required to spend time with them.

There is no evidence dad is lazy or not involved. Child support may not be appropriate. If mom is the sole decision maker and paid for the activities without dad’s consent she can drive them. Simple. You are making assumptions he is a bad dad without the entire story.

Mom isn't the sole decision maker. The kid asked to to the activity. It's about the kid, not the mom/ex. That's where you're so so wrong. And where the dad is wrong for refusing to support their kid.

If logistically it doesn’t work for dad on his time, mom needs to do it on her time. She confidently does. Discuss the location, time, etc.

You can't do team sports, play in an orchestra, or act in the school play on only certain days when you're with one parent. This position turns a child into the prisoner of an unhealthy parent. It's going to backfire - why even ask for parenting time at all if the end result is that your kid grows to resent you and you have no relationship later in life? Be a halfway decent human being and show up for your kid or get out of the way.

You can if both parents work together and cooperate. If mom signs up the kid in dad’s time and he is unable due to the location she can step in and drive to the activity and dads house.

But that's the thing--we are talking about a situation where one of the parent refuses to work together and cooperate. Kid asks to play soccer so parent #1 signs him up. The league informs them that the kid has been assigned to a team that practices on Tuesday and Thursday. Parent #2 says "No way is my kid practicing on Tuesdays! That's MY day." Parent #1 offers to drive kid to Tuesday practice, or switch and let parent #2 have Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays --but no. Parent #2 refuses to accommodate. So now, kid can't play soccer because you can't miss half the practices and stay on the team.
Examples like this have come up MANY times on DCUM.

First, you ask about dates and times BEFORE you sign them up. That's common sense. Second, if you want the other parent to take them, you make it convenient for you. If Dad is already doing all the drop off and pick ups an hour a way (that's at least two hours round trip) and working, it may simply be a time issue. Or, if the time is when Dad has to work. And, if switching says doesn't work, that's ok. You are making up stuff to make Dad out to be a bad parent without discussion all the other factors that go into it.

My kid misses lots of their sport for other things. You know what, it's ok. We email the coach and let them know. Done.

First, a lot of sports/activities/leagues won't tell you the dates and times until AFTER you have registered/tried out. Sometimes it's because they need to know how many participants/teams they will field, sometimes it's because of the (volunteer) coaches' schedules...there are many working parts and they can't always give you answers before you commit. That's just the way it is.

Second, well sure if parent one wants to make it convenient for themselves. Did you mis-type what you wrote? But often parent #1 is even willing to make it inconvenient for themselves but parent #2 still won't budge.

If your kid is missing lots of things for their sport and your coach is cool with it, your kid is very young and not playing in a competitve league. That's not going to work as your kid progresses and wants to play at higher levels.

Mine are in multiple activities and no they are not young and they are in two very competitive programs. Good try. They all give us the schedules in advance and we work around things but the complications comes in with HS school activities as well. You think activities are more important than spending limited time with a parent. Yea for you. you find an activity that gives you the schedule in advanced.

Unless you were the kids coach you know exactly what she's talking about. Come on. Don't even get me started on weekday baseball games and playoffs.

You get a schedule in advance. Be real. Or find a better organized team. We do club teams and high level music and arts. Multiple programs per child and we know in dance. And, know the conflicts in advance. But, that does not work for everyone with work, commutes and multiple kids and other obligations like elder care.

You are not divorced so what are you obsessing over this?

I’m another Not Divorced person and I’ll tell you why the subject interests me— because everyone else on the team watches this unfold and feels sorry for the kid. The good parents (single and married) try to help out the parent who is trying to make it work for her child and we despise the person too lazy to let their kid keep their extra curricular. People should know how their actions are viewed.

+1
You think the rest of the team doesn't notice?

But do you know the whole story? Or just what the one parent tells you?

There really isn’t a big two-sides mystery when the kid did the same team/sport for the whole time the parents were married, and then one parent suddenly can’t be bothered to take them to activities and the other parent is left constantly asking for favors of rescheduling so the kid isn’t forced to miss out on something they put so much time and effort into.

Yeah if this was someone brand new to the team and one parent constantly blamed the other parent for the kid missing practices/games I might think there are two sides to the story, but this just isn’t a mystery— it’s a bad parent, and everyone including the kid can see it.

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Really, if those are the worst offenses, it's ok. No one is early as perfect as you. Pizza parties are not important. Leave extra clothing at school. And, medicine. Leave a brush and ask the teacher to help. Or meet them before school and do it.

Tell a seven year old whose dad couldn’t be bothered to get them in the right uniform, who is the only kid excluded from the party, that it’s not important. I’m sure they’ll agree that it’s insignificant.

Medicine as someone else already posted is often designed to be given not at school.

“A brush and ask the teacher to help” is a really neat way to show disrespect for your kids teacher— they should be your kids nursemaid so the child’s parent doesn’t have to remember little things like grooming. School will hate you.

And you’d actually know all those things if you were a decent parent to a school age kid and so, I’m sorry for your kids or sorry for your wife.

Seven year olds should be able to put on a uniform by themselves in the morning.

And comb their hair if taught. It may not be oerfect but they are not helpless.

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

If dad lives a distance away and working full time, you have to be reasonable especially if all activities are near mom not dad. A 7 years olds priority should be a relationship with both parents over activities. This mom is petty and unreasonable.

This is absurd. In this hypothetical (or real situation), the mom is the one working full time, not taking any child support, and paying for and getting the kids to all their activities. "Petty" is the last applicable adjective. Try selfless, loving, and putting the child first. The dad here is lazy and self-centered, and his existence only serves to cause problems in people's lives - he doesn't pay a share of any activities, doesn't pay child support, and doesn't do any of the driving. This is likely the parent who doesn't know the name of the child's dentist or pediatrician. Genders can easily be reversed in this scenario if the mom is the one who doesn't do any parenting (who gets in the way and doesn't provide support). It's the parent on another thread who protested letting his child attend a school band concert. Who does that? To him, parenting time is the last vestige of power or control he can exert over other people's lives. He is a liability. The bigger parent plays defense and tries to mitigate the damage. Kids figure it out, and there are lifelong repercussions. They know who butters their bread. The crap parent gets cut out when the child is no longer legally required to spend time with them.

There is no evidence dad is lazy or not involved. Child support may not be appropriate. If mom is the sole decision maker and paid for the activities without dad’s consent she can drive them. Simple. You are making assumptions he is a bad dad without the entire story.

Mom isn't the sole decision maker. The kid asked to to the activity. It's about the kid, not the mom/ex. That's where you're so so wrong. And where the dad is wrong for refusing to support their kid.

If logistically it doesn’t work for dad on his time, mom needs to do it on her time. She confidently does. Discuss the location, time, etc.

You can't do team sports, play in an orchestra, or act in the school play on only certain days when you're with one parent. This position turns a child into the prisoner of an unhealthy parent. It's going to backfire - why even ask for parenting time at all if the end result is that your kid grows to resent you and you have no relationship later in life? Be a halfway decent human being and show up for your kid or get out of the way.

You can if both parents work together and cooperate. If mom signs up the kid in dad’s time and he is unable due to the location she can step in and drive to the activity and dads house.

But that's the thing--we are talking about a situation where one of the parent refuses to work together and cooperate. Kid asks to play soccer so parent #1 signs him up. The league informs them that the kid has been assigned to a team that practices on Tuesday and Thursday. Parent #2 says "No way is my kid practicing on Tuesdays! That's MY day." Parent #1 offers to drive kid to Tuesday practice, or switch and let parent #2 have Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays --but no. Parent #2 refuses to accommodate. So now, kid can't play soccer because you can't miss half the practices and stay on the team.
Examples like this have come up MANY times on DCUM.

First, you ask about dates and times BEFORE you sign them up. That's common sense. Second, if you want the other parent to take them, you make it convenient for you. If Dad is already doing all the drop off and pick ups an hour a way (that's at least two hours round trip) and working, it may simply be a time issue. Or, if the time is when Dad has to work. And, if switching says doesn't work, that's ok. You are making up stuff to make Dad out to be a bad parent without discussion all the other factors that go into it.

My kid misses lots of their sport for other things. You know what, it's ok. We email the coach and let them know. Done.

First, a lot of sports/activities/leagues won't tell you the dates and times until AFTER you have registered/tried out. Sometimes it's because they need to know how many participants/teams they will field, sometimes it's because of the (volunteer) coaches' schedules...there are many working parts and they can't always give you answers before you commit. That's just the way it is.

Second, well sure if parent one wants to make it convenient for themselves. Did you mis-type what you wrote? But often parent #1 is even willing to make it inconvenient for themselves but parent #2 still won't budge.

If your kid is missing lots of things for their sport and your coach is cool with it, your kid is very young and not playing in a competitve league. That's not going to work as your kid progresses and wants to play at higher levels.

Mine are in multiple activities and no they are not young and they are in two very competitive programs. Good try. They all give us the schedules in advance and we work around things but the complications comes in with HS school activities as well. You think activities are more important than spending limited time with a parent. Yea for you. you find an activity that gives you the schedule in advanced.

Unless you were the kids coach you know exactly what she's talking about. Come on. Don't even get me started on weekday baseball games and playoffs.

You get a schedule in advance. Be real. Or find a better organized team. We do club teams and high level music and arts. Multiple programs per child and we know in dance. And, know the conflicts in advance. But, that does not work for everyone with work, commutes and multiple kids and other obligations like elder care.

You are not divorced so what are you obsessing over this?

I’m another Not Divorced person and I’ll tell you why the subject interests me— because everyone else on the team watches this unfold and feels sorry for the kid. The good parents (single and married) try to help out the parent who is trying to make it work for her child and we despise the person too lazy to let their kid keep their extra curricular. People should know how their actions are viewed.

+1
You think the rest of the team doesn't notice?

But do you know the whole story? Or just what the one parent tells you?

We know.

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

If dad lives a distance away and working full time, you have to be reasonable especially if all activities are near mom not dad. A 7 years olds priority should be a relationship with both parents over activities. This mom is petty and unreasonable.

This is absurd. In this hypothetical (or real situation), the mom is the one working full time, not taking any child support, and paying for and getting the kids to all their activities. "Petty" is the last applicable adjective. Try selfless, loving, and putting the child first. The dad here is lazy and self-centered, and his existence only serves to cause problems in people's lives - he doesn't pay a share of any activities, doesn't pay child support, and doesn't do any of the driving. This is likely the parent who doesn't know the name of the child's dentist or pediatrician. Genders can easily be reversed in this scenario if the mom is the one who doesn't do any parenting (who gets in the way and doesn't provide support). It's the parent on another thread who protested letting his child attend a school band concert. Who does that? To him, parenting time is the last vestige of power or control he can exert over other people's lives. He is a liability. The bigger parent plays defense and tries to mitigate the damage. Kids figure it out, and there are lifelong repercussions. They know who butters their bread. The crap parent gets cut out when the child is no longer legally required to spend time with them.

There is no evidence dad is lazy or not involved. Child support may not be appropriate. If mom is the sole decision maker and paid for the activities without dad’s consent she can drive them. Simple. You are making assumptions he is a bad dad without the entire story.

Mom isn't the sole decision maker. The kid asked to to the activity. It's about the kid, not the mom/ex. That's where you're so so wrong. And where the dad is wrong for refusing to support their kid.

If logistically it doesn’t work for dad on his time, mom needs to do it on her time. She confidently does. Discuss the location, time, etc.

You can't do team sports, play in an orchestra, or act in the school play on only certain days when you're with one parent. This position turns a child into the prisoner of an unhealthy parent. It's going to backfire - why even ask for parenting time at all if the end result is that your kid grows to resent you and you have no relationship later in life? Be a halfway decent human being and show up for your kid or get out of the way.

You can if both parents work together and cooperate. If mom signs up the kid in dad’s time and he is unable due to the location she can step in and drive to the activity and dads house.

But that's the thing--we are talking about a situation where one of the parent refuses to work together and cooperate. Kid asks to play soccer so parent #1 signs him up. The league informs them that the kid has been assigned to a team that practices on Tuesday and Thursday. Parent #2 says "No way is my kid practicing on Tuesdays! That's MY day." Parent #1 offers to drive kid to Tuesday practice, or switch and let parent #2 have Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays --but no. Parent #2 refuses to accommodate. So now, kid can't play soccer because you can't miss half the practices and stay on the team.
Examples like this have come up MANY times on DCUM.

First, you ask about dates and times BEFORE you sign them up. That's common sense. Second, if you want the other parent to take them, you make it convenient for you. If Dad is already doing all the drop off and pick ups an hour a way (that's at least two hours round trip) and working, it may simply be a time issue. Or, if the time is when Dad has to work. And, if switching says doesn't work, that's ok. You are making up stuff to make Dad out to be a bad parent without discussion all the other factors that go into it.

My kid misses lots of their sport for other things. You know what, it's ok. We email the coach and let them know. Done.

First, a lot of sports/activities/leagues won't tell you the dates and times until AFTER you have registered/tried out. Sometimes it's because they need to know how many participants/teams they will field, sometimes it's because of the (volunteer) coaches' schedules...there are many working parts and they can't always give you answers before you commit. That's just the way it is.

Second, well sure if parent one wants to make it convenient for themselves. Did you mis-type what you wrote? But often parent #1 is even willing to make it inconvenient for themselves but parent #2 still won't budge.

If your kid is missing lots of things for their sport and your coach is cool with it, your kid is very young and not playing in a competitve league. That's not going to work as your kid progresses and wants to play at higher levels.

Mine are in multiple activities and no they are not young and they are in two very competitive programs. Good try. They all give us the schedules in advance and we work around things but the complications comes in with HS school activities as well. You think activities are more important than spending limited time with a parent. Yea for you. you find an activity that gives you the schedule in advanced.

Unless you were the kids coach you know exactly what she's talking about. Come on. Don't even get me started on weekday baseball games and playoffs.

You get a schedule in advance. Be real. Or find a better organized team. We do club teams and high level music and arts. Multiple programs per child and we know in dance. And, know the conflicts in advance. But, that does not work for everyone with work, commutes and multiple kids and other obligations like elder care.

You are not divorced so what are you obsessing over this?

I’m another Not Divorced person and I’ll tell you why the subject interests me— because everyone else on the team watches this unfold and feels sorry for the kid. The good parents (single and married) try to help out the parent who is trying to make it work for her child and we despise the person too lazy to let their kid keep their extra curricular. People should know how their actions are viewed.

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

If dad lives a distance away and working full time, you have to be reasonable especially if all activities are near mom not dad. A 7 years olds priority should be a relationship with both parents over activities. This mom is petty and unreasonable.

This is absurd. In this hypothetical (or real situation), the mom is the one working full time, not taking any child support, and paying for and getting the kids to all their activities. "Petty" is the last applicable adjective. Try selfless, loving, and putting the child first. The dad here is lazy and self-centered, and his existence only serves to cause problems in people's lives - he doesn't pay a share of any activities, doesn't pay child support, and doesn't do any of the driving. This is likely the parent who doesn't know the name of the child's dentist or pediatrician. Genders can easily be reversed in this scenario if the mom is the one who doesn't do any parenting (who gets in the way and doesn't provide support). It's the parent on another thread who protested letting his child attend a school band concert. Who does that? To him, parenting time is the last vestige of power or control he can exert over other people's lives. He is a liability. The bigger parent plays defense and tries to mitigate the damage. Kids figure it out, and there are lifelong repercussions. They know who butters their bread. The crap parent gets cut out when the child is no longer legally required to spend time with them.

There is no evidence dad is lazy or not involved. Child support may not be appropriate. If mom is the sole decision maker and paid for the activities without dad’s consent she can drive them. Simple. You are making assumptions he is a bad dad without the entire story.

Mom isn't the sole decision maker. The kid asked to to the activity. It's about the kid, not the mom/ex. That's where you're so so wrong. And where the dad is wrong for refusing to support their kid.

If logistically it doesn’t work for dad on his time, mom needs to do it on her time. She confidently does. Discuss the location, time, etc.

You can't do team sports, play in an orchestra, or act in the school play on only certain days when you're with one parent. This position turns a child into the prisoner of an unhealthy parent. It's going to backfire - why even ask for parenting time at all if the end result is that your kid grows to resent you and you have no relationship later in life? Be a halfway decent human being and show up for your kid or get out of the way.

You can if both parents work together and cooperate. If mom signs up the kid in dad’s time and he is unable due to the location she can step in and drive to the activity and dads house.

But that's the thing--we are talking about a situation where one of the parent refuses to work together and cooperate. Kid asks to play soccer so parent #1 signs him up. The league informs them that the kid has been assigned to a team that practices on Tuesday and Thursday. Parent #2 says "No way is my kid practicing on Tuesdays! That's MY day." Parent #1 offers to drive kid to Tuesday practice, or switch and let parent #2 have Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays --but no. Parent #2 refuses to accommodate. So now, kid can't play soccer because you can't miss half the practices and stay on the team.
Examples like this have come up MANY times on DCUM.

First, you ask about dates and times BEFORE you sign them up. That's common sense. Second, if you want the other parent to take them, you make it convenient for you. If Dad is already doing all the drop off and pick ups an hour a way (that's at least two hours round trip) and working, it may simply be a time issue. Or, if the time is when Dad has to work. And, if switching says doesn't work, that's ok. You are making up stuff to make Dad out to be a bad parent without discussion all the other factors that go into it.

My kid misses lots of their sport for other things. You know what, it's ok. We email the coach and let them know. Done.

First, a lot of sports/activities/leagues won't tell you the dates and times until AFTER you have registered/tried out. Sometimes it's because they need to know how many participants/teams they will field, sometimes it's because of the (volunteer) coaches' schedules...there are many working parts and they can't always give you answers before you commit. That's just the way it is.

Second, well sure if parent one wants to make it convenient for themselves. Did you mis-type what you wrote? But often parent #1 is even willing to make it inconvenient for themselves but parent #2 still won't budge.

If your kid is missing lots of things for their sport and your coach is cool with it, your kid is very young and not playing in a competitve league. That's not going to work as your kid progresses and wants to play at higher levels.

Mine are in multiple activities and no they are not young and they are in two very competitive programs. Good try. They all give us the schedules in advance and we work around things but the complications comes in with HS school activities as well. You think activities are more important than spending limited time with a parent. Yea for you. you find an activity that gives you the schedule in advanced.

Unless you were the kids coach you know exactly what she's talking about. Come on. Don't even get me started on weekday baseball games and playoffs.

You get a schedule in advance. Be real. Or find a better organized team. We do club teams and high level music and arts. Multiple programs per child and we know in dance. And, know the conflicts in advance. But, that does not work for everyone with work, commutes and multiple kids and other obligations like elder care.

You are not divorced so what are you obsessing over this?

It has nothing to do about being "an organized team" and has to do with the nature of team sports.
This year, my kid's high school football team made the playoffs, which meant that while the regular season ended in early November, his team's season ended up extended several weeks beyond that--and it was on a week-by-week basis. Every friday night game, we had no idea if the season was ending that night or would go (at least) another week. We had no idea that would happen when workouts first started in JUNE before that.

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

I am not divorced but I give up part of my parenting time every week when my kids at are sports practice, instrument lessons, scouting activities, Sunday school, and playing with friends. I give up that time with them because having school and community connections and relationships with peers is healthy and important for their physical mental health. If I want to make those times active parenting time, I can choose to coach or volunteer at the activity or host the play dates.

If you are not familiar with rec level sports, the practice day/time/location is not known when you sign up. It is announced a week before practices start. A friend of mine had the bad luck that her custody schedule lined up such that she spent 2-3 evenings driving carpools and coordinating activities while her ex had 2 evenings a week to have relaxed dinners with home cooked meals. She didn’t throw a fit and make her kid quit their sport. She just pointed out that she only had 1 night every 2 weeks where she could have family dinner at home with all kids present. Her request was that they take that into consideration for future commitment so they can choose, like piano lessons and that they find a way to adjust if sports line up the same way in the spring.

It’s absolutely ridiculous for one parent to absorb all of the lessons, dentist appointments, and activities so the other parent can do what? Make the kid engage with them and only them 100% of their waking hours?

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

If dad lives a distance away and working full time, you have to be reasonable especially if all activities are near mom not dad. A 7 years olds priority should be a relationship with both parents over activities. This mom is petty and unreasonable.

This is absurd. In this hypothetical (or real situation), the mom is the one working full time, not taking any child support, and paying for and getting the kids to all their activities. "Petty" is the last applicable adjective. Try selfless, loving, and putting the child first. The dad here is lazy and self-centered, and his existence only serves to cause problems in people's lives - he doesn't pay a share of any activities, doesn't pay child support, and doesn't do any of the driving. This is likely the parent who doesn't know the name of the child's dentist or pediatrician. Genders can easily be reversed in this scenario if the mom is the one who doesn't do any parenting (who gets in the way and doesn't provide support). It's the parent on another thread who protested letting his child attend a school band concert. Who does that? To him, parenting time is the last vestige of power or control he can exert over other people's lives. He is a liability. The bigger parent plays defense and tries to mitigate the damage. Kids figure it out, and there are lifelong repercussions. They know who butters their bread. The crap parent gets cut out when the child is no longer legally required to spend time with them.

There is no evidence dad is lazy or not involved. Child support may not be appropriate. If mom is the sole decision maker and paid for the activities without dad’s consent she can drive them. Simple. You are making assumptions he is a bad dad without the entire story.

Mom isn't the sole decision maker. The kid asked to to the activity. It's about the kid, not the mom/ex. That's where you're so so wrong. And where the dad is wrong for refusing to support their kid.

If logistically it doesn’t work for dad on his time, mom needs to do it on her time. She confidently does. Discuss the location, time, etc.

You can't do team sports, play in an orchestra, or act in the school play on only certain days when you're with one parent. This position turns a child into the prisoner of an unhealthy parent. It's going to backfire - why even ask for parenting time at all if the end result is that your kid grows to resent you and you have no relationship later in life? Be a halfway decent human being and show up for your kid or get out of the way.

You can if both parents work together and cooperate. If mom signs up the kid in dad’s time and he is unable due to the location she can step in and drive to the activity and dads house.

But that's the thing--we are talking about a situation where one of the parent refuses to work together and cooperate. Kid asks to play soccer so parent #1 signs him up. The league informs them that the kid has been assigned to a team that practices on Tuesday and Thursday. Parent #2 says "No way is my kid practicing on Tuesdays! That's MY day." Parent #1 offers to drive kid to Tuesday practice, or switch and let parent #2 have Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays --but no. Parent #2 refuses to accommodate. So now, kid can't play soccer because you can't miss half the practices and stay on the team.
Examples like this have come up MANY times on DCUM.

First, you ask about dates and times BEFORE you sign them up. That's common sense. Second, if you want the other parent to take them, you make it convenient for you. If Dad is already doing all the drop off and pick ups an hour a way (that's at least two hours round trip) and working, it may simply be a time issue. Or, if the time is when Dad has to work. And, if switching says doesn't work, that's ok. You are making up stuff to make Dad out to be a bad parent without discussion all the other factors that go into it.

My kid misses lots of their sport for other things. You know what, it's ok. We email the coach and let them know. Done.

First, a lot of sports/activities/leagues won't tell you the dates and times until AFTER you have registered/tried out. Sometimes it's because they need to know how many participants/teams they will field, sometimes it's because of the (volunteer) coaches' schedules...there are many working parts and they can't always give you answers before you commit. That's just the way it is.

Second, well sure if parent one wants to make it convenient for themselves. Did you mis-type what you wrote? But often parent #1 is even willing to make it inconvenient for themselves but parent #2 still won't budge.

If your kid is missing lots of things for their sport and your coach is cool with it, your kid is very young and not playing in a competitve league. That's not going to work as your kid progresses and wants to play at higher levels.

Mine are in multiple activities and no they are not young and they are in two very competitive programs. Good try. They all give us the schedules in advance and we work around things but the complications comes in with HS school activities as well. You think activities are more important than spending limited time with a parent. Yea for you. you find an activity that gives you the schedule in advanced.

Unless you were the kids coach you know exactly what she's talking about. Come on. Don't even get me started on weekday baseball games and playoffs.

You get a schedule in advance. Be real. Or find a better organized team. We do club teams and high level music and arts. Multiple programs per child and we know in dance. And, know the conflicts in advance. But, that does not work for everyone with work, commutes and multiple kids and other obligations like elder care.

You are not divorced so what are you obsessing over this?

I’m another Not Divorced person and I’ll tell you why the subject interests me— because everyone else on the team watches this unfold and feels sorry for the kid. The good parents (single and married) try to help out the parent who is trying to make it work for her child and we despise the person too lazy to let their kid keep their extra curricular. People should know how their actions are viewed.

+1
You think the rest of the team doesn't notice?

But do you know the whole story? Or just what the one parent tells you?

It's obvious to everyone. Also, kids talk. They also text in group chats, and most of us monitor our kid's phone and see it. "sorry i missed practice boys my dad is an a**hole and won't let me go i hate him so much"

Leave people alone or offer to drive. Your posting is bizzare. That’s not happening.

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

If dad lives a distance away and working full time, you have to be reasonable especially if all activities are near mom not dad. A 7 years olds priority should be a relationship with both parents over activities. This mom is petty and unreasonable.

This is absurd. In this hypothetical (or real situation), the mom is the one working full time, not taking any child support, and paying for and getting the kids to all their activities. "Petty" is the last applicable adjective. Try selfless, loving, and putting the child first. The dad here is lazy and self-centered, and his existence only serves to cause problems in people's lives - he doesn't pay a share of any activities, doesn't pay child support, and doesn't do any of the driving. This is likely the parent who doesn't know the name of the child's dentist or pediatrician. Genders can easily be reversed in this scenario if the mom is the one who doesn't do any parenting (who gets in the way and doesn't provide support). It's the parent on another thread who protested letting his child attend a school band concert. Who does that? To him, parenting time is the last vestige of power or control he can exert over other people's lives. He is a liability. The bigger parent plays defense and tries to mitigate the damage. Kids figure it out, and there are lifelong repercussions. They know who butters their bread. The crap parent gets cut out when the child is no longer legally required to spend time with them.

There is no evidence dad is lazy or not involved. Child support may not be appropriate. If mom is the sole decision maker and paid for the activities without dad’s consent she can drive them. Simple. You are making assumptions he is a bad dad without the entire story.

Mom isn't the sole decision maker. The kid asked to to the activity. It's about the kid, not the mom/ex. That's where you're so so wrong. And where the dad is wrong for refusing to support their kid.

If logistically it doesn’t work for dad on his time, mom needs to do it on her time. She confidently does. Discuss the location, time, etc.

You can't do team sports, play in an orchestra, or act in the school play on only certain days when you're with one parent. This position turns a child into the prisoner of an unhealthy parent. It's going to backfire - why even ask for parenting time at all if the end result is that your kid grows to resent you and you have no relationship later in life? Be a halfway decent human being and show up for your kid or get out of the way.

You can if both parents work together and cooperate. If mom signs up the kid in dad’s time and he is unable due to the location she can step in and drive to the activity and dads house.

But that's the thing--we are talking about a situation where one of the parent refuses to work together and cooperate. Kid asks to play soccer so parent #1 signs him up. The league informs them that the kid has been assigned to a team that practices on Tuesday and Thursday. Parent #2 says "No way is my kid practicing on Tuesdays! That's MY day." Parent #1 offers to drive kid to Tuesday practice, or switch and let parent #2 have Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays --but no. Parent #2 refuses to accommodate. So now, kid can't play soccer because you can't miss half the practices and stay on the team.
Examples like this have come up MANY times on DCUM.

First, you ask about dates and times BEFORE you sign them up. That's common sense. Second, if you want the other parent to take them, you make it convenient for you. If Dad is already doing all the drop off and pick ups an hour a way (that's at least two hours round trip) and working, it may simply be a time issue. Or, if the time is when Dad has to work. And, if switching says doesn't work, that's ok. You are making up stuff to make Dad out to be a bad parent without discussion all the other factors that go into it.

My kid misses lots of their sport for other things. You know what, it's ok. We email the coach and let them know. Done.

First, a lot of sports/activities/leagues won't tell you the dates and times until AFTER you have registered/tried out. Sometimes it's because they need to know how many participants/teams they will field, sometimes it's because of the (volunteer) coaches' schedules...there are many working parts and they can't always give you answers before you commit. That's just the way it is.

Second, well sure if parent one wants to make it convenient for themselves. Did you mis-type what you wrote? But often parent #1 is even willing to make it inconvenient for themselves but parent #2 still won't budge.

If your kid is missing lots of things for their sport and your coach is cool with it, your kid is very young and not playing in a competitve league. That's not going to work as your kid progresses and wants to play at higher levels.

Mine are in multiple activities and no they are not young and they are in two very competitive programs. Good try. They all give us the schedules in advance and we work around things but the complications comes in with HS school activities as well. You think activities are more important than spending limited time with a parent. Yea for you. you find an activity that gives you the schedule in advanced.

Unless you were the kids coach you know exactly what she's talking about. Come on. Don't even get me started on weekday baseball games and playoffs.

You get a schedule in advance. Be real. Or find a better organized team. We do club teams and high level music and arts. Multiple programs per child and we know in dance. And, know the conflicts in advance. But, that does not work for everyone with work, commutes and multiple kids and other obligations like elder care.

You are not divorced so what are you obsessing over this?

This just shows how out of touch you are. There's not a single rec sport in our county where you get the schedule in advance. For spring soccer, for instance, you sign up in January. The coach gets the roster in March. A week later the coach gets to put in several bids for a practice slot. We're supposed to get the game schedule in 1-2 weeks, so early April? There was zero ability to know the schedule at the time we signed up. Same for all the county sports. For swim team we have to sign up in May for the following year and get their practice slot in August. The one we got this year is incredibly inconvenient for our family and so I've literally been on waitlists since August trying to get it changed. In this area you get what you get and you don't get upset.

Heck, this is even true with Girl Scout camps. I had to put my daughter in a lottery in January and didn't find out until mid-February what week she would go to sleep away camp. She wanted to go to a particular camp so we had to apply to multiple weeks to give her a chance of getting a spot. She got her third choice week.

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

If dad lives a distance away and working full time, you have to be reasonable especially if all activities are near mom not dad. A 7 years olds priority should be a relationship with both parents over activities. This mom is petty and unreasonable.

This is absurd. In this hypothetical (or real situation), the mom is the one working full time, not taking any child support, and paying for and getting the kids to all their activities. "Petty" is the last applicable adjective. Try selfless, loving, and putting the child first. The dad here is lazy and self-centered, and his existence only serves to cause problems in people's lives - he doesn't pay a share of any activities, doesn't pay child support, and doesn't do any of the driving. This is likely the parent who doesn't know the name of the child's dentist or pediatrician. Genders can easily be reversed in this scenario if the mom is the one who doesn't do any parenting (who gets in the way and doesn't provide support). It's the parent on another thread who protested letting his child attend a school band concert. Who does that? To him, parenting time is the last vestige of power or control he can exert over other people's lives. He is a liability. The bigger parent plays defense and tries to mitigate the damage. Kids figure it out, and there are lifelong repercussions. They know who butters their bread. The crap parent gets cut out when the child is no longer legally required to spend time with them.

There is no evidence dad is lazy or not involved. Child support may not be appropriate. If mom is the sole decision maker and paid for the activities without dad’s consent she can drive them. Simple. You are making assumptions he is a bad dad without the entire story.

Mom isn't the sole decision maker. The kid asked to to the activity. It's about the kid, not the mom/ex. That's where you're so so wrong. And where the dad is wrong for refusing to support their kid.

If logistically it doesn’t work for dad on his time, mom needs to do it on her time. She confidently does. Discuss the location, time, etc.

You can't do team sports, play in an orchestra, or act in the school play on only certain days when you're with one parent. This position turns a child into the prisoner of an unhealthy parent. It's going to backfire - why even ask for parenting time at all if the end result is that your kid grows to resent you and you have no relationship later in life? Be a halfway decent human being and show up for your kid or get out of the way.

You can if both parents work together and cooperate. If mom signs up the kid in dad’s time and he is unable due to the location she can step in and drive to the activity and dads house.

But that's the thing--we are talking about a situation where one of the parent refuses to work together and cooperate. Kid asks to play soccer so parent #1 signs him up. The league informs them that the kid has been assigned to a team that practices on Tuesday and Thursday. Parent #2 says "No way is my kid practicing on Tuesdays! That's MY day." Parent #1 offers to drive kid to Tuesday practice, or switch and let parent #2 have Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays --but no. Parent #2 refuses to accommodate. So now, kid can't play soccer because you can't miss half the practices and stay on the team.
Examples like this have come up MANY times on DCUM.

First, you ask about dates and times BEFORE you sign them up. That's common sense. Second, if you want the other parent to take them, you make it convenient for you. If Dad is already doing all the drop off and pick ups an hour a way (that's at least two hours round trip) and working, it may simply be a time issue. Or, if the time is when Dad has to work. And, if switching says doesn't work, that's ok. You are making up stuff to make Dad out to be a bad parent without discussion all the other factors that go into it.

My kid misses lots of their sport for other things. You know what, it's ok. We email the coach and let them know. Done.

First, a lot of sports/activities/leagues won't tell you the dates and times until AFTER you have registered/tried out. Sometimes it's because they need to know how many participants/teams they will field, sometimes it's because of the (volunteer) coaches' schedules...there are many working parts and they can't always give you answers before you commit. That's just the way it is.

Second, well sure if parent one wants to make it convenient for themselves. Did you mis-type what you wrote? But often parent #1 is even willing to make it inconvenient for themselves but parent #2 still won't budge.

If your kid is missing lots of things for their sport and your coach is cool with it, your kid is very young and not playing in a competitve league. That's not going to work as your kid progresses and wants to play at higher levels.

Mine are in multiple activities and no they are not young and they are in two very competitive programs. Good try. They all give us the schedules in advance and we work around things but the complications comes in with HS school activities as well. You think activities are more important than spending limited time with a parent. Yea for you. you find an activity that gives you the schedule in advanced.

Unless you were the kids coach you know exactly what she's talking about. Come on. Don't even get me started on weekday baseball games and playoffs.

You get a schedule in advance. Be real. Or find a better organized team. We do club teams and high level music and arts. Multiple programs per child and we know in dance. And, know the conflicts in advance. But, that does not work for everyone with work, commutes and multiple kids and other obligations like elder care.

You are not divorced so what are you obsessing over this?

I’m another Not Divorced person and I’ll tell you why the subject interests me— because everyone else on the team watches this unfold and feels sorry for the kid. The good parents (single and married) try to help out the parent who is trying to make it work for her child and we despise the person too lazy to let their kid keep their extra curricular. People should know how their actions are viewed.

+1
You think the rest of the team doesn't notice?

But do you know the whole story? Or just what the one parent tells you?

It's obvious to everyone. Also, kids talk. They also text in group chats, and most of us monitor our kid's phone and see it. "sorry i missed practice boys my dad is an a**hole and won't let me go i hate him so much"

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

If dad lives a distance away and working full time, you have to be reasonable especially if all activities are near mom not dad. A 7 years olds priority should be a relationship with both parents over activities. This mom is petty and unreasonable.

This is absurd. In this hypothetical (or real situation), the mom is the one working full time, not taking any child support, and paying for and getting the kids to all their activities. "Petty" is the last applicable adjective. Try selfless, loving, and putting the child first. The dad here is lazy and self-centered, and his existence only serves to cause problems in people's lives - he doesn't pay a share of any activities, doesn't pay child support, and doesn't do any of the driving. This is likely the parent who doesn't know the name of the child's dentist or pediatrician. Genders can easily be reversed in this scenario if the mom is the one who doesn't do any parenting (who gets in the way and doesn't provide support). It's the parent on another thread who protested letting his child attend a school band concert. Who does that? To him, parenting time is the last vestige of power or control he can exert over other people's lives. He is a liability. The bigger parent plays defense and tries to mitigate the damage. Kids figure it out, and there are lifelong repercussions. They know who butters their bread. The crap parent gets cut out when the child is no longer legally required to spend time with them.

There is no evidence dad is lazy or not involved. Child support may not be appropriate. If mom is the sole decision maker and paid for the activities without dad’s consent she can drive them. Simple. You are making assumptions he is a bad dad without the entire story.

Mom isn't the sole decision maker. The kid asked to to the activity. It's about the kid, not the mom/ex. That's where you're so so wrong. And where the dad is wrong for refusing to support their kid.

If logistically it doesn’t work for dad on his time, mom needs to do it on her time. She confidently does. Discuss the location, time, etc.

You can't do team sports, play in an orchestra, or act in the school play on only certain days when you're with one parent. This position turns a child into the prisoner of an unhealthy parent. It's going to backfire - why even ask for parenting time at all if the end result is that your kid grows to resent you and you have no relationship later in life? Be a halfway decent human being and show up for your kid or get out of the way.

You can if both parents work together and cooperate. If mom signs up the kid in dad’s time and he is unable due to the location she can step in and drive to the activity and dads house.

But that's the thing--we are talking about a situation where one of the parent refuses to work together and cooperate. Kid asks to play soccer so parent #1 signs him up. The league informs them that the kid has been assigned to a team that practices on Tuesday and Thursday. Parent #2 says "No way is my kid practicing on Tuesdays! That's MY day." Parent #1 offers to drive kid to Tuesday practice, or switch and let parent #2 have Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays --but no. Parent #2 refuses to accommodate. So now, kid can't play soccer because you can't miss half the practices and stay on the team.
Examples like this have come up MANY times on DCUM.

First, you ask about dates and times BEFORE you sign them up. That's common sense. Second, if you want the other parent to take them, you make it convenient for you. If Dad is already doing all the drop off and pick ups an hour a way (that's at least two hours round trip) and working, it may simply be a time issue. Or, if the time is when Dad has to work. And, if switching says doesn't work, that's ok. You are making up stuff to make Dad out to be a bad parent without discussion all the other factors that go into it.

My kid misses lots of their sport for other things. You know what, it's ok. We email the coach and let them know. Done.

First, a lot of sports/activities/leagues won't tell you the dates and times until AFTER you have registered/tried out. Sometimes it's because they need to know how many participants/teams they will field, sometimes it's because of the (volunteer) coaches' schedules...there are many working parts and they can't always give you answers before you commit. That's just the way it is.

Second, well sure if parent one wants to make it convenient for themselves. Did you mis-type what you wrote? But often parent #1 is even willing to make it inconvenient for themselves but parent #2 still won't budge.

If your kid is missing lots of things for their sport and your coach is cool with it, your kid is very young and not playing in a competitve league. That's not going to work as your kid progresses and wants to play at higher levels.

Mine are in multiple activities and no they are not young and they are in two very competitive programs. Good try. They all give us the schedules in advance and we work around things but the complications comes in with HS school activities as well. You think activities are more important than spending limited time with a parent. Yea for you. you find an activity that gives you the schedule in advanced.

Unless you were the kids coach you know exactly what she's talking about. Come on. Don't even get me started on weekday baseball games and playoffs.

You get a schedule in advance. Be real. Or find a better organized team. We do club teams and high level music and arts. Multiple programs per child and we know in dance. And, know the conflicts in advance. But, that does not work for everyone with work, commutes and multiple kids and other obligations like elder care.

You are not divorced so what are you obsessing over this?

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

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Anonymous wrote:Men vary as caregivers. Most are innatentive, incompetent, not paying close enough attention, flouting the rules, etc. they do the bare minimum. They don't have patience. They yell they don't care about routine, baths, and illnesses like pink eye or rash. Yet during divorce they don't want to pay child support and sthink without their wife around they'll manage fine with 50/50. What a crappy situation for the kids and the poor mothers having to worry

A newly divorced dad at our elementary school sent his 6 yo to school in tights and a t shirt, with no pants or skirt. You could see her underwear. They had to send her to the office to get something from lost and found. Apparently he didn't know the difference between tights and leggings.

I can believe it! While my ex and I have a good co-parenting relationship, he remains a ding dong. I'm the one who gets the emails about dress code violations when he puts our child in non uniform items to go to the school they've been going to for three years. And I have to remind him about things like brushing their hair. It could be worse, but it is a difference.

If those are your worst complaints it sounds like he’s doing a good job.

They aren't my worst complaints...but in general he does ok. I do remind about things like brushing hair and giving allergy meds. Even when you have 50/50 time, you're still their mother/father 100% of the time!

You sound incredibly petty.

I’m a DP but you, PP, sound like you don’t know much about raising school-age children.

Kid comes to school without uniform and gets violations because their dad can’t dress them? Has a “discipline problem” at school. Depending on the discipline structure at school that means various consequences like missing pizza parties or other privileges. You really think a kid whose parents are splitting needs a harder life?

Kid comes to school without allergy medicine and either spends the day miserable or the nurse calls a parent (probably not dad) to disrupt their day and bring the meds. You think that’s better for learning?

Kid shows up without even brushed hair? Best case the other kids are awful to her— and again you feel like that’s something a kid with divorced parents needs?— worst case the teachers are all gossiping about how X Family is neglectful.

They’ve studied this pretty rigorously that well groomed children get more attention in school. Your kid doesn’t even have their hair brushed? As an elementary school teacher said to me once— teachers don’t think it’s their job to care more than the parents.

Pp here - thank you, you understand. I am the parent who gets the emails and calls about the issue. I am helping my dc with self care skills so at some point this won't be an issue. Thankfully, ex is open to reminders. I also dialogue with the school. Like I posted - we're parents 100% of the time.

Then tell them it's dad's day and call dad. Here is the number.

I could see that with an older child. But with a younger one, I need to be in the loop about stuff like meds. So they call me.

No, you don’t need to be in the loop on dad’s day. You need to let him parent. You are the problem.

The child still needs meds and appropriate clothing and grooming on 'dads day'. It's about the child's best interest.

Back off and let him figure it out. If you keep micromanaging and criticizing he will never figure it out. I can only imagine how difficult you make things for him. And, do some of the activities near his house.

Some amount of letting a child figure it out is fine. Meds need to be supervised by an adult. I disagree that moving activities toward the other parent's house to make it more convenient for that parent is in the child's best interests. If a kid is in an established program with a group of supportive peers, that should not be disturbed. Divorce and two households are really hard on kids - taking away the few outlets and support systems they have so as to avoid inconvenience to a parent is a big mistake.

And that’s probably why dad cannot take kids to activities. If he has to work full time and drive kids an hour back and forth to school the activities, it’s not reasonable or realistic. Why should mom get an easy quick drive for the kids but not dad. Equal parenting means equal and this is no way equal. Mom does what’s best for her, not for the kids or dad. Then complains without caring why.

There are workarounds. I know a mom who works full time, doesn't get any child support, pays for all activities, and drives (or arranges a carpool) for the kids to and from their activities. Dad's parenting time starts after the conclusion of the activities as stipulated in the parenting agreement. Dad gets to remain lazy, and occasionally complain per his nature, but not otherwise screw up the kids preexisting life around school and sports. Mom works much harder and has less free time and money but views this as better than the alternative (dad's laziness and obstinacy taking away the kid's activities and friendships).

This solution is contingent on the dad giving up some of "his" parenting time. In contentious divorces, the lazy parent can block this option to get back at the ex. It's so horrible to see when one "parent" isn't acting in the best interests of the kids.

If dad lives a distance away and working full time, you have to be reasonable especially if all activities are near mom not dad. A 7 years olds priority should be a relationship with both parents over activities. This mom is petty and unreasonable.

This is absurd. In this hypothetical (or real situation), the mom is the one working full time, not taking any child support, and paying for and getting the kids to all their activities. "Petty" is the last applicable adjective. Try selfless, loving, and putting the child first. The dad here is lazy and self-centered, and his existence only serves to cause problems in people's lives - he doesn't pay a share of any activities, doesn't pay child support, and doesn't do any of the driving. This is likely the parent who doesn't know the name of the child's dentist or pediatrician. Genders can easily be reversed in this scenario if the mom is the one who doesn't do any parenting (who gets in the way and doesn't provide support). It's the parent on another thread who protested letting his child attend a school band concert. Who does that? To him, parenting time is the last vestige of power or control he can exert over other people's lives. He is a liability. The bigger parent plays defense and tries to mitigate the damage. Kids figure it out, and there are lifelong repercussions. They know who butters their bread. The crap parent gets cut out when the child is no longer legally required to spend time with them.

There is no evidence dad is lazy or not involved. Child support may not be appropriate. If mom is the sole decision maker and paid for the activities without dad’s consent she can drive them. Simple. You are making assumptions he is a bad dad without the entire story.

Mom isn't the sole decision maker. The kid asked to to the activity. It's about the kid, not the mom/ex. That's where you're so so wrong. And where the dad is wrong for refusing to support their kid.

If logistically it doesn’t work for dad on his time, mom needs to do it on her time. She confidently does. Discuss the location, time, etc.

You can't do team sports, play in an orchestra, or act in the school play on only certain days when you're with one parent. This position turns a child into the prisoner of an unhealthy parent. It's going to backfire - why even ask for parenting time at all if the end result is that your kid grows to resent you and you have no relationship later in life? Be a halfway decent human being and show up for your kid or get out of the way.

You can if both parents work together and cooperate. If mom signs up the kid in dad’s time and he is unable due to the location she can step in and drive to the activity and dads house.

But that's the thing--we are talking about a situation where one of the parent refuses to work together and cooperate. Kid asks to play soccer so parent #1 signs him up. The league informs them that the kid has been assigned to a team that practices on Tuesday and Thursday. Parent #2 says "No way is my kid practicing on Tuesdays! That's MY day." Parent #1 offers to drive kid to Tuesday practice, or switch and let parent #2 have Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays --but no. Parent #2 refuses to accommodate. So now, kid can't play soccer because you can't miss half the practices and stay on the team.
Examples like this have come up MANY times on DCUM.

First, you ask about dates and times BEFORE you sign them up. That's common sense. Second, if you want the other parent to take them, you make it convenient for you. If Dad is already doing all the drop off and pick ups an hour a way (that's at least two hours round trip) and working, it may simply be a time issue. Or, if the time is when Dad has to work. And, if switching says doesn't work, that's ok. You are making up stuff to make Dad out to be a bad parent without discussion all the other factors that go into it.

My kid misses lots of their sport for other things. You know what, it's ok. We email the coach and let them know. Done.

First, a lot of sports/activities/leagues won't tell you the dates and times until AFTER you have registered/tried out. Sometimes it's because they need to know how many participants/teams they will field, sometimes it's because of the (volunteer) coaches' schedules...there are many working parts and they can't always give you answers before you commit. That's just the way it is.

Second, well sure if parent one wants to make it convenient for themselves. Did you mis-type what you wrote? But often parent #1 is even willing to make it inconvenient for themselves but parent #2 still won't budge.

If your kid is missing lots of things for their sport and your coach is cool with it, your kid is very young and not playing in a competitve league. That's not going to work as your kid progresses and wants to play at higher levels.

Mine are in multiple activities and no they are not young and they are in two very competitive programs. Good try. They all give us the schedules in advance and we work around things but the complications comes in with HS school activities as well. You think activities are more important than spending limited time with a parent. Yea for you. you find an activity that gives you the schedule in advanced.

Unless you were the kids coach you know exactly what she's talking about. Come on. Don't even get me started on weekday baseball games and playoffs.

You get a schedule in advance. Be real. Or find a better organized team. We do club teams and high level music and arts. Multiple programs per child and we know in dance. And, know the conflicts in advance. But, that does not work for everyone with work, commutes and multiple kids and other obligations like elder care.

You are not divorced so what are you obsessing over this?

I’m another Not Divorced person and I’ll tell you why the subject interests me— because everyone else on the team watches this unfold and feels sorry for the kid. The good parents (single and married) try to help out the parent who is trying to make it work for her child and we despise the person too lazy to let their kid keep their extra curricular. People should know how their actions are viewed.

+1
You think the rest of the team doesn't notice?

But do you know the whole story? Or just what the one parent tells you?