Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The olds’ hypocrisy of “The man proposes with a diamond ring on bended knee after getting permission from her father” but “I am a proud feminist” simply cannot die off soon enough.

Gag.

Has any of the women here who expects a ring identifiex herself as a feminist?

I don't know how they could. Feminism is about having choices and honoring the choice. Expecting a proposal and an engagement ring is anti-feminist even when it's a role reversal - their expectation is that a man will meet the expectation of gendered role simply because he's male. It's definitely contrary to feminism.

I expected a ring and consider myself a feminist for sure. Feminism is absolutely about a woman’s freedom to live her life the way she chooses, to vote and get an education just as any man could, to be president or a SAHM. It doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the differences between the sexes, both in terms of biology and society. Seems like we disagree on what feminism is.

I don’t care one bit if a woman wants a ring or not, but I do hope in these situations it’s not a woman wanting a ring and going along with not getting one to keep her guy or appear like a cool girl. I particularly love the greenhouse story.

Yep, get your ring, your greenhouse, your house downpayment, but get SOMETHING!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why you think a ring is essential, OP. Seriously, I don't. It's something the diamond industry made up to get people to buy them. Are you that manipulable?

If someone wants a ring, fine. If they don't want a ring, that is also fine. Men don't wear engagement rings, showing it is not necessary. Why is it absolutely necessary for women to?

Because there's no bigger achievement for a woman than getting married.

OMG you are sexist and old fashioned.

My biggest achievement was raising my child and getting a PhD.

I'm the person you're replying. That was sarcasm.

That you’ve even had to explain that to now multiple posters in this thread is really something.

In a big fan of pre-nups with penalty clauses and every asset held jointly. Will protect your sisters better than any $500 ring

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The olds’ hypocrisy of “The man proposes with a diamond ring on bended knee after getting permission from her father” but “I am a proud feminist” simply cannot die off soon enough.

Gag.

Has any of the women here who expects a ring identifiex herself as a feminist?

I don't know how they could. Feminism is about having choices and honoring the choice. Expecting a proposal and an engagement ring is anti-feminist even when it's a role reversal - their expectation is that a man will meet the expectation of gendered role simply because he's male. It's definitely contrary to feminism.

I expected a ring and consider myself a feminist for sure. Feminism is absolutely about a woman’s freedom to live her life the way she chooses, to vote and get an education just as any man could, to be president or a SAHM. It doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the differences between the sexes, both in terms of biology and society. Seems like we disagree on what feminism is.

I don’t care one bit if a woman wants a ring or not, but I do hope in these situations it’s not a woman wanting a ring and going along with not getting one to keep her guy or appear like a cool girl. I particularly love the greenhouse story.

If you consider yourself a feminist, how have you missed the Fourth Wave?

Feminists now recognize that it is not just women that are harmed by women's inequity. Everyone is harm even men. Gendered norms are just as much pillars of toxic masculinity and patriarchy as women's inequity. Expecting a man to propose and give you a ring just because he's a man and you're a woman is a gendered norm.

There is nothing wrong with wanting and asking for something. How a someone responds to a loved one's request is an indication of what kind of partner they will be. Expecting a ring and proposal from a man because you are a woman is no different than a expecting a woman to be responsible all gift giving for her DH's family simply because that's what women are supposed to do. Again, asking is perfectly fine. Expecting something because of gendered norms is not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The olds’ hypocrisy of “The man proposes with a diamond ring on bended knee after getting permission from her father” but “I am a proud feminist” simply cannot die off soon enough.

Gag.

Has any of the women here who expects a ring identifiex herself as a feminist?

I don't know how they could. Feminism is about having choices and honoring the choice. Expecting a proposal and an engagement ring is anti-feminist even when it's a role reversal - their expectation is that a man will meet the expectation of gendered role simply because he's male. It's definitely contrary to feminism.

I expected a ring and consider myself a feminist for sure. Feminism is absolutely about a woman’s freedom to live her life the way she chooses, to vote and get an education just as any man could, to be president or a SAHM. It doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the differences between the sexes, both in terms of biology and society. Seems like we disagree on what feminism is.

I don’t care one bit if a woman wants a ring or not, but I do hope in these situations it’s not a woman wanting a ring and going along with not getting one to keep her guy or appear like a cool girl. I particularly love the greenhouse story.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are now raising women to give themselves away and expect nothing in return. Presumably, they’ll have to support their families while the husbands play video games and watch porn in a state of perpetual adolescence.

I would agree with this.
30 years ago I would have rolled my eyes at the old fashioned concept of a ring. But OP is onto something about the symbolism behind it. It symbolizes that he is making an effort. And that is the right way to start a marriage because if he isn't as invested in it as she is, she will be bearing the burdens of their life together.
When full of youthful visions of gender equality, this doesn't seem like a big deal.
Throw in a few kids, mortgage, car payments, caring for aging parents, saving for college, etc.. that's a lot to put on one person.

(cont.)
I say this as a person who received a 2 karat ring from my ex. He didn't bother to get a ring, his parents gave it to him.
For most of that marriage, I was married to his parents and he was their puppet. I gave that ring back to them when we divorced - it was a beautiful ring but I hated the fact that he didn't make an effort and his parents were behind the shiny object. It embodied everything wrong with the arrangement going forward.

So you didn't notice he was his parents' puppet before the engagement? Some of you need to pay more attention to general behavior patterns instead of focusing on rings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are now raising women to give themselves away and expect nothing in return. Presumably, they’ll have to support their families while the husbands play video games and watch porn in a state of perpetual adolescence.

I would agree with this.
30 years ago I would have rolled my eyes at the old fashioned concept of a ring. But OP is onto something about the symbolism behind it. It symbolizes that he is making an effort. And that is the right way to start a marriage because if he isn't as invested in it as she is, she will be bearing the burdens of their life together.
When full of youthful visions of gender equality, this doesn't seem like a big deal.
Throw in a few kids, mortgage, car payments, caring for aging parents, saving for college, etc.. that's a lot to put on one person.

How does buying a ring equate to "making an effort"? It's not like he mined the diamond and gold, cut/polished and created the ring. You can get a ring for a few hundred bucks and a quick trip to the mall.

I'd much rather have a partner, someone who has shown me I can count on him - who, through his actions, communicates his esteem. How buying a ring shows you that, I have no idea.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are now raising women to give themselves away and expect nothing in return. Presumably, they’ll have to support their families while the husbands play video games and watch porn in a state of perpetual adolescence.

I would agree with this.
30 years ago I would have rolled my eyes at the old fashioned concept of a ring. But OP is onto something about the symbolism behind it. It symbolizes that he is making an effort. And that is the right way to start a marriage because if he isn't as invested in it as she is, she will be bearing the burdens of their life together.
When full of youthful visions of gender equality, this doesn't seem like a big deal.
Throw in a few kids, mortgage, car payments, caring for aging parents, saving for college, etc.. that's a lot to put on one person.

We have kids, mortage and payments. I never doubted my husband's support as he was supportive from the beginning. We never had rings or a formal proposal because we didn't need it. Women need a ring as a symbol of a man's commitment when the man in question hasn't signalized his commitment in his day to day interaction with his partner.

I’m mid-40s, have an engagement and wedding ring, but generally don’t wear them. I just tend to forget. My Dh was a poor grad student when we got engaged so my ring wasn’t very expensive by engagement ring standards (about $800). I’m glad I have one, but also glad we didn’t spend thousands on it. I had a theater teacher in high school - he and his wife chose not to do rings or a large wedding and instead put that money toward a payment on a house. I think that’s smart. It’s only a problem if the engaged people have different views on whether or not to do engagement rings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why you think a ring is essential, OP. Seriously, I don't. It's something the diamond industry made up to get people to buy them. Are you that manipulable?

If someone wants a ring, fine. If they don't want a ring, that is also fine. Men don't wear engagement rings, showing it is not necessary. Why is it absolutely necessary for women to?

Because there's no bigger achievement for a woman than getting married.

OMG you are sexist and old fashioned.

My biggest achievement was raising my child and getting a PhD.

I'm the person you're replying. That was sarcasm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why you think a ring is essential, OP. Seriously, I don't. It's something the diamond industry made up to get people to buy them. Are you that manipulable?

If someone wants a ring, fine. If they don't want a ring, that is also fine. Men don't wear engagement rings, showing it is not necessary. Why is it absolutely necessary for women to?

Because there's no bigger achievement for a woman than getting married.

OMG you are sexist and old fashioned.

My biggest achievement was raising my child and getting a PhD.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are now raising women to give themselves away and expect nothing in return. Presumably, they’ll have to support their families while the husbands play video games and watch porn in a state of perpetual adolescence.

I would agree with this.
30 years ago I would have rolled my eyes at the old fashioned concept of a ring. But OP is onto something about the symbolism behind it. It symbolizes that he is making an effort. And that is the right way to start a marriage because if he isn't as invested in it as she is, she will be bearing the burdens of their life together.
When full of youthful visions of gender equality, this doesn't seem like a big deal.
Throw in a few kids, mortgage, car payments, caring for aging parents, saving for college, etc.. that's a lot to put on one person.

(cont.)
I say this as a person who received a 2 karat ring from my ex. He didn't bother to get a ring, his parents gave it to him.
For most of that marriage, I was married to his parents and he was their puppet. I gave that ring back to them when we divorced - it was a beautiful ring but I hated the fact that he didn't make an effort and his parents were behind the shiny object. It embodied everything wrong with the arrangement going forward.

Anonymous wrote:Because we are now raising women to give themselves away and expect nothing in return. Presumably, they’ll have to support their families while the husbands play video games and watch porn in a state of perpetual adolescence.

I would agree with this.
30 years ago I would have rolled my eyes at the old fashioned concept of a ring. But OP is onto something about the symbolism behind it. It symbolizes that he is making an effort. And that is the right way to start a marriage because if he isn't as invested in it as she is, she will be bearing the burdens of their life together.
When full of youthful visions of gender equality, this doesn't seem like a big deal.
Throw in a few kids, mortgage, car payments, caring for aging parents, saving for college, etc.. that's a lot to put on one person.

Haven't read the whole thread, but it wasn't just "okay" with me -- it was necessary.

I did not want to be part of a patriarchal tradition where (a) men exclusively ask women, and (b) there's a symbolic exchange of valuable goods in exchange for exclusive sexual access to a woman. What does it mean for our mutual status when he gives me a valuable gift and I don't give him anything? What is it then that I am promising to him?

We've been happily married 20 years, fwiw.

I agree 100% that OP should not marrkes these guys that don't buy engagement rings.

Stick to guys who obey they marketing campaign of a specific corporation. That's what commitment means. Never love a man who doesn't love de Beers.