When I started trying to conceive I had two chemical pregnancies where I got a positive test but at my first ultrasound there was just an empty sac. No fetal pole, no fetus. So were these children? No, I don't think so. It took two ultrasounds at 6 and 8 weeks for each pregnancy to confirm that no fetus developed and in fact my pregnancy didn't even come close to producing a child.

When I did IVF I transferred two embryos each time, and both times only one fetus developed. In my IVFs they gave me photos of the pair of embryos both times...beautiful balls of cells that would become an amniotic sac, a placenta, and a baby, and only one did each time. How many children did I have? Not 6. I had 2...in middle school now and very real. I didn't in fact "lose" any children because only 2 of those embryos became a baby or had a heartbeat.

Anonymous wrote:I'm really tired of evangelicals and conservative Catholics imposing their religions on everyone else.

I'm Christian and I'm tired of it, can't imagine how tired non Christians are.

+1 Catholic here. But apparently according to the self-appointed, all-knowing, god, PP, not a "good one" or a "real one."

Anonymous wrote:Every time you hear some Gen Z kid say they won't vote in this year's election because of the Israel/Palestine war and Biden's position, remind them that is a vote for Trump. And that this is the beginning, and that they will essentially be condoning abortion bans and restrictions/bans on birth control, for them and the Gen Alpha and all the girls after.

They are putting all of this at risk. Are they ready?

They are already going after Plan B in OK. Congratulations Republican women. You got what you asked for.

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Anonymous wrote:I wish I could post this in the thread about Rob Reiner’s documentary on Christian Nationalism but it got locked. This is language in a real court ruling in America.

The Catholic Church strongly opposes IVF.

The Catholic Church? I lost all respect for the CC during the HIV/AIDS epidemic when they opposed condom use (because they oppose contraception except for the rhythm method) and promoted "chastity." Never mind, how they protected pedophile priests...

The twin cruelties of denying birth control and their child raping road show is why I despise the Catholic Church, add to that their worsening the HIV/AIDS crisis and their political action and they’re even worse.

I guess denying IVF is why they need to have more White babies for the pipeline or whatever the Handmaiden said.

The Church’s teaching on the immorality of IVF is based upon God ordained natural law. Chastity outside of marriage between a man and a woman has always been part of the Catechism. The Catholic Church is furthermore growing fastest in Subsaharan Africa so it has nothing to do with white babies (the Church is shrinking fastest in Western Europe and North America. The next Pope may very well be a black African.
Oh, and there’s a very special place in Hell for child raping priests.

Folks that do not believe in IVF should not get IVF treatment. Other people were given an amazing IVF treatment by their God to allow them to have a family and it does nto concern you in any way.

I have one vote just like you do. My vote is determined by my conscience formed by the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I am catholic and I have a children conceived by IVF. God told me to do it and was right.

NP
You chose to go against the teachings of the church. You have the right to make that choice, but that choice makes you NOT a practicing Catholic.

I turn down the greatest gift god has given me and THAT makes me a Catholic. I don't think so.

If you believe god has given you that gift, that is your option. Others believe in science.

I believe in science. My argument is that for every religious person telling me that IVF is forbidden by this or that church there is a flip argument that IVF is encouraged by this or that church.

In my opinion reproductive decisions are private and personal. No one has to treat infertility with IVF but no one should be denied that treatment if they believe that it is the right decision for their situation.

"This chruch or that church" perhaps, but NOT the Catholic church.

We need to agree to disagree. I would urge people to get infertility treated if they can. And vote to ensure important medical treatments are not outlawed in Alabama or anywhere else.

No. It is a fact, not an opinion, that the Catholic church does not encourage IVF.

Contrast this with Jewish and Mormon congregations that actively encourage IVF usage as a matter of religious belief to reproduce.

This is an insane precedent in Alabama against its Jewish and Mormon citizens.

Then maybe the IVF using pp that claimed to be Catholic should look at becoming Jewish or a Mormon, because she is not Catholic.

And now you need to go to confession. Can you figure out your sin?

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Anonymous wrote:I wish I could post this in the thread about Rob Reiner’s documentary on Christian Nationalism but it got locked. This is language in a real court ruling in America.

The Catholic Church strongly opposes IVF.

The Catholic Church? I lost all respect for the CC during the HIV/AIDS epidemic when they opposed condom use (because they oppose contraception except for the rhythm method) and promoted "chastity." Never mind, how they protected pedophile priests...

The twin cruelties of denying birth control and their child raping road show is why I despise the Catholic Church, add to that their worsening the HIV/AIDS crisis and their political action and they’re even worse.

I guess denying IVF is why they need to have more White babies for the pipeline or whatever the Handmaiden said.

The Church’s teaching on the immorality of IVF is based upon God ordained natural law. Chastity outside of marriage between a man and a woman has always been part of the Catechism. The Catholic Church is furthermore growing fastest in Subsaharan Africa so it has nothing to do with white babies (the Church is shrinking fastest in Western Europe and North America. The next Pope may very well be a black African.
Oh, and there’s a very special place in Hell for child raping priests.

Folks that do not believe in IVF should not get IVF treatment. Other people were given an amazing IVF treatment by their God to allow them to have a family and it does nto concern you in any way.

I have one vote just like you do. My vote is determined by my conscience formed by the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I am catholic and I have a children conceived by IVF. God told me to do it and was right.

NP
You chose to go against the teachings of the church. You have the right to make that choice, but that choice makes you NOT a practicing Catholic.

I turn down the greatest gift god has given me and THAT makes me a Catholic. I don't think so.

If you believe god has given you that gift, that is your option. Others believe in science.

I believe in science. My argument is that for every religious person telling me that IVF is forbidden by this or that church there is a flip argument that IVF is encouraged by this or that church.

In my opinion reproductive decisions are private and personal. No one has to treat infertility with IVF but no one should be denied that treatment if they believe that it is the right decision for their situation.

"This chruch or that church" perhaps, but NOT the Catholic church.

We need to agree to disagree. I would urge people to get infertility treated if they can. And vote to ensure important medical treatments are not outlawed in Alabama or anywhere else.

No. It is a fact, not an opinion, that the Catholic church does not encourage IVF.

Are you infertile?

My fertility is irrelevant. I am not stating my feelings about IVF. I am stating the Catholic church’s position on IVF.
If you pursue IVF you are not a practicing Catholic. Just like if you eat meat you are not a vegetarian.

I’ll tell that to the Catholic women I know who have had IVF, not to mention the ones I know who have had abortions.

Just out of curiosity, do pedo priests still remain Catholics? What about the church officials who aid and abet them?

You'll tell that to the WOMEN (not CATHOLIC women) that do things that are contrary to the Catholic church's teachings--which they have every right to do, since they are NOT practicing Catholics.

And Yes, anyone that sexually abuses children is also not a practicing Catholic.

Ok but your DCUM judgements and theology lessons have no effect on reality. Catholic women have been rolling their eyes at the backwards reproductive teachings in the church for decades. They simply just ignore it and continue to try to focus on doing unto others. One of these decades, the Catholic Church will evolve

PP must have been asleep in church during all the sermons where they discussed what Jesus meant by let he who is without sin cast the first stone. By PP's logic there are no Catholics, including PP who clearly has an issue with pride.

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Anonymous wrote:The entire back story is completely nuts. I am not sure if it was a set up or what. It is actually somewhat common for mistakes to be made and have embryos accidentally destroyed by fertility clinics (most common scenario seems to be a power failure). There are multitudes of lawsuits that ensue over them.

But this case seems sketchy and there isn't much press at all about what happened. No info on the person who committed the act (man or woman, who were they, why were they in the hospital, were they ever caught), was anyone ever charged? From google it seems it happened in December 2020 and that the destroyed embryos were laying on the floor for some time before they were discovered. And if the person burned their hands, how were they not discovered? Didn't they need medical treatment?

Too many weird questions IMO.

Good point. And I read that all the couples who sued had actually already had kids through IVF several years ago (these were leftover embryos). So they possibly weren’t trying to ever do IVF again. I wonder if they were tricked or somehow convinced to pursue this wrongful death lawsuit.

They probably found hardcore forced birthers. Once they had the children they wanted, they no longer cared and were willing to be used as political pawns in order to spite women’s rights.

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Anonymous wrote:It is good that this decision affects rich white people and men. That is the only way for those in charge to become outraged.

I hate the assumption that only "rich white people" pursue IVF. My online infertility support group consisted of about 30 women all undergoing IVF at the same time. Ages ranged from mid 20s to early 40s, and we ran the gamut from lower middle class to upper middle class. And this wasn't DCUM-area "middle class", either.
Most of us had some form of insurance coverage to make costs more affordable, but I know several women who had taken out loans to pay for it or received meds donated to their clinics.

Good luck with those costs when you have to fly out of state for things that must be done in person.

Anonymous wrote:It is good that this decision affects rich white people and men. That is the only way for those in charge to become outraged.

I hate the assumption that only "rich white people" pursue IVF. My online infertility support group consisted of about 30 women all undergoing IVF at the same time. Ages ranged from mid 20s to early 40s, and we ran the gamut from lower middle class to upper middle class. And this wasn't DCUM-area "middle class", either.
Most of us had some form of insurance coverage to make costs more affordable, but I know several women who had taken out loans to pay for it or received meds donated to their clinics.

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Anonymous wrote:This is also an issue that very obviously involves many men as male factors have a significant contribution to infertility. Get involved boys and help to get rid of these oppressive GOP policies that also affect your ability to make your own reproductive decisions.

The easiest way to get rid of this stupid policy is to take it seriously. Start applying for state aid for all of those children. The clearly are not developing as they should, so apply for disability for each embryo. Do you have any older embryos? At three years old, they can get evaluated for an IEP by their local public school. That's hours of pointless paperwork for the local government for each embryo.

That would be amazing. Can you imagine how many dependent tax deductions you could rack up with lots of frozen embryos?

It is good that this decision affects rich white people and men. That is the only way for those in charge to become outraged.

Anonymous wrote:The entire back story is completely nuts. I am not sure if it was a set up or what. It is actually somewhat common for mistakes to be made and have embryos accidentally destroyed by fertility clinics (most common scenario seems to be a power failure). There are multitudes of lawsuits that ensue over them.

But this case seems sketchy and there isn't much press at all about what happened. No info on the person who committed the act (man or woman, who were they, why were they in the hospital, were they ever caught), was anyone ever charged? From google it seems it happened in December 2020 and that the destroyed embryos were laying on the floor for some time before they were discovered. And if the person burned their hands, how were they not discovered? Didn't they need medical treatment?

Too many weird questions IMO.

Good point. And I read that all the couples who sued had actually already had kids through IVF several years ago (these were leftover embryos). So they possibly weren’t trying to ever do IVF again. I wonder if they were tricked or somehow convinced to pursue this wrongful death lawsuit.

Anonymous wrote:This is also an issue that very obviously involves many men as male factors have a significant contribution to infertility. Get involved boys and help to get rid of these oppressive GOP policies that also affect your ability to make your own reproductive decisions.

The easiest way to get rid of this stupid policy is to take it seriously. Start applying for state aid for all of those children. The clearly are not developing as they should, so apply for disability for each embryo. Do you have any older embryos? At three years old, they can get evaluated for an IEP by their local public school. That's hours of pointless paperwork for the local government for each embryo.

Anonymous wrote:This is also an issue that very obviously involves many men as male factors have a significant contribution to infertility. Get involved boys and help to get rid of these oppressive GOP policies that also affect your ability to make your own reproductive decisions.

Men also carry genetic disease. IVF is necessary for some couples to have a healthy child.

This is also an issue that very obviously involves many men as male factors have a significant contribution to infertility. Get involved boys and help to get rid of these oppressive GOP policies that also affect your ability to make your own reproductive decisions.

People vote thinking THEY are special and not like the outcasts living reckless lives.........turns out NO one is safe under GOP