Anonymous wrote:Most people go into teaching straight out if school and many have limited experience in other fields unless they leave teaching. So I think sometimes teachers don't understand what it's like in other fields. It's easy to idealize other people's jobs. Obviously people also idealize aspects of teaching.

Most jobs have really frustrating, annoying things about them. I've never had a job I love, I'm middle aged. I've also never made more than 105k despite spending my whole career in the DMV.

Do you consider yourself “super well paid”? The discussion is about whether teacher are super well paid. People keep pointing out other professions that make similar amounts. Do we think of those professions as super well paid?

I will also point out that it seems you have worked many places. The high salaries that people are talking about, which are similar to yours, are for people who have been in the organization for 20 years. Not people like you who jumped around.

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Anonymous wrote:There’s also the question of what the public gets in exchange for these fat salaries, benefits, etc. The majority of public schools in DC are really terrible.

Are teachers truly to blame for all the problems of the school system?

Do we blame doctors when patients are diagnosed with cancer? Do we blame accountants for our bad financial decisions?

Yet we blame teachers when a neglected child cannot read on grade level.

Huh.

Ok well if teachers make no difference then you should be paid accordingly.

Bingo. My kids aren’t neglected, attend school every day, and as far as I can tell they’re learning just a notch above nothing.

What grade is your child in?

And huh, no one said ‘teachers make no difference,’ we cannot make a chronically absent child go from 3rd grade reading level to 6th grade, if they are never coming to school. They refuse (FREE) tutoring, will NOT do HW, parents are unhelpful, etc.

If your child isn’t learning, there are many things to look at before we blame the teacher.

Anonymous wrote:Most people go into teaching straight out if school and many have limited experience in other fields unless they leave teaching. So I think sometimes teachers don't understand what it's like in other fields. It's easy to idealize other people's jobs. Obviously people also idealize aspects of teaching.

Most jobs have really frustrating, annoying things about them. I've never had a job I love, I'm middle aged. I've also never made more than 105k despite spending my whole career in the DMV.

I’m a teacher who posted above. I’m a career changer who started in a corporate setting. I worked 10-12 hours a week, had 2 hour lunches paid by the firm, and could set my hours. Many of my neighbors have similar deals.

I’m glad I made the change, but I work far more than I used to.

Anonymous wrote:I am a DC teacher. I’m paid well and don’t complain about my salary. But I definitely work my butt off for it. Sure I know teachers who work just their 8-4pm and do no work outside of that time but trust me. The teachers you like for your kids and who you think are doing a good job are likely working as much in the year as any full year professionals you know.

I believe that you work super hard! I do! But arguments like this make it sound like you believe other professionals only work their “contract hours.” Is that what you believe? I work many, many unpaid hours, including nights and weekends, sometimes including travel on nights and weekends that I do not get paid extra for. That’s part of being a salaried professional.

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Anonymous wrote:We just got our school budget. Our librarian makes $140k. Most teachers make about $130k and they work for 9 months per year and they get a pension.
I am happy for them but people have to stop with pressuring parents to give them gift cards, valentine presents and all the talk about them not being well paid.
By

This is not valid in other states. I am just talking about DCPS and probably DC metro and other big cities.

That’s it 🙂

Yup. I have 20 years experience and am in a senior role at my large nonprofit and make $126. We have had some lovely, lovely teachers and assistants when my kids were at a title 1 elementary, and I was generous with the gifts. But I no longer go overboard or give gifts to individual teachers in middle and hs. They are professionals!

A 20 year teacher with a masters makes 112. https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/WTU%20FY20-FY23.pdf

I don't think I can put into words how maddening this thread is

How much do you think that other nonprofit professionals with 20 years of experience and a master's make, and who have similar benefits (except for the summar breaks, week at Christmas and Easter)? Who also have huge drawbacks in their work (which are hard to describe, relatively, because most of us can imagine what it's like to be in a classroom)?

The non profit professionals with 20 years of experience I know get tons of vacation and sick time and work from home 80% of the time.

True. Although the WFH is a new thing post COVID for the large majority of us. We also get vacation but I assure you, very, very very few nonprofit professionals get many weeks off in the summer, and week long breaks here and there.

It isn’t “weeks off.” It’s unpaid. I really need DCUM to stop thinking of my summers as some long, glorious, paid vacation. As it stands, I’ve already booked 2 week-long trainings that I’m paying for so I can keep my certification.

I work more hours in 10 months a year than most professionals do in 12. I was planning lessons at 5:30 this morning (Sunday) and I have a zoom meeting tonight (also Sunday).

You do not work more hours in 10 months than most professionals do in 12.

I am a DC teacher. I’m paid well and don’t complain about my salary. But I definitely work my butt off for it. Sure I know teachers who work just their 8-4pm and do no work outside of that time but trust me. The teachers you like for your kids and who you think are doing a good job are likely working as much in the year as any full year professionals you know.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s also the question of what the public gets in exchange for these fat salaries, benefits, etc. The majority of public schools in DC are really terrible.

Are teachers truly to blame for all the problems of the school system?

Do we blame doctors when patients are diagnosed with cancer? Do we blame accountants for our bad financial decisions?

Yet we blame teachers when a neglected child cannot read on grade level.

Huh.

Ok well if teachers make no difference then you should be paid accordingly.

Makes no sense. Teachers are doing their jobs. The system makes it so that their jobs are incredibly difficult. If the system wants better results, they can do things differently. But to slam teachers is crazy—and it’s a lazy way of thinking. It’s incredibly difficult to treat certain cancers, but doctors who have a very low survival rate in their patients still get paid well. No one would suggest they get paid according to who lives. If a bus driver is stuck in a traffic jam, would you dock their pay for not making their route on time? Pick any job/profession. Only teachers get talked about this way. It’s so disrespectful.

Exactly. I suspect this lazy thinking is rooted in the idea that people *think* they know what teaching is like. After all, these posters sat in a classroom once. Many years ago.

Teachers know the truth, and they are performing miracles with limited resources daily.

Yes. I mean this PP even admitted it when they said:

"
How much do you think that other nonprofit professionals with 20 years of experience and a master's make, and who have similar benefits (except for the summar breaks, week at Christmas and Easter)? Who also have huge drawbacks in their work (which are hard to describe, relatively, because most of us can imagine what it's like to be in a classroom)?"
I remember before I began my career as a teacher that I imagined it was like how I perceived school when I was a kid. It's about as relevant as pretending you know what it's like to be a pilot bc you've been on an airplane or that you know what it's like to be a doctor bc you saw pediatrician as a child

People do this kind of thing with teachers ALL. THE. TIME. Dunning-Kruger all the way.

I didn't mean to say it wasn't hard, or that people understood the issues in the same way a professional would. But I am saying -- don't you think that the rest of us have huge drawbacks in our work, too, even though we aren't constantly iterating what they are?
In other words, there are really, really hard parts to MOST types of extremely rewarding work, in addition to relatively lower pay.

The point is that teachers get blamed for things that are beyond their control—and in a way that is not usual for other jobs. Can you imagine a dental hygienist being blamed for not cleaning someone’s teeth if the office didn’t provide the tools? Or if the patient didn’t show up, should the dental hygienist be blamed for the patient not having healthy gums? Other professional fields usually aren’t as vilified or misunderstood as teachers in this way; therefore, they don’t need to explain themselves all the time. And that doesn’t mean there aren’t other hard jobs with low pay—no one here said that. Whatsboutism isn’t useful here. We can talk about teachers, AND we can talk about other fields that have similar problems. So go ahead if you want. No one is stopping you from making comparisons. But why shouldn’t teachers talk about what’s happening to them? Especially when they are accused things that aren’t their fault? Should they just shut up because someone else feels like their job is hard, too? I don’t get the point.

Most people go into teaching straight out if school and many have limited experience in other fields unless they leave teaching. So I think sometimes teachers don't understand what it's like in other fields. It's easy to idealize other people's jobs. Obviously people also idealize aspects of teaching.

Most jobs have really frustrating, annoying things about them. I've never had a job I love, I'm middle aged. I've also never made more than 105k despite spending my whole career in the DMV.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just got our school budget. Our librarian makes $140k. Most teachers make about $130k and they work for 9 months per year and they get a pension.
I am happy for them but people have to stop with pressuring parents to give them gift cards, valentine presents and all the talk about them not being well paid.
By

This is not valid in other states. I am just talking about DCPS and probably DC metro and other big cities.

That’s it 🙂

Yup. I have 20 years experience and am in a senior role at my large nonprofit and make $126. We have had some lovely, lovely teachers and assistants when my kids were at a title 1 elementary, and I was generous with the gifts. But I no longer go overboard or give gifts to individual teachers in middle and hs. They are professionals!

A 20 year teacher with a masters makes 112. https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/WTU%20FY20-FY23.pdf

I don't think I can put into words how maddening this thread is

How much do you think that other nonprofit professionals with 20 years of experience and a master's make, and who have similar benefits (except for the summar breaks, week at Christmas and Easter)? Who also have huge drawbacks in their work (which are hard to describe, relatively, because most of us can imagine what it's like to be in a classroom)?

The non profit professionals with 20 years of experience I know get tons of vacation and sick time and work from home 80% of the time.

True. Although the WFH is a new thing post COVID for the large majority of us. We also get vacation but I assure you, very, very very few nonprofit professionals get many weeks off in the summer, and week long breaks here and there.

It isn’t “weeks off.” It’s unpaid. I really need DCUM to stop thinking of my summers as some long, glorious, paid vacation. As it stands, I’ve already booked 2 week-long trainings that I’m paying for so I can keep my certification.

I work more hours in 10 months a year than most professionals do in 12. I was planning lessons at 5:30 this morning (Sunday) and I have a zoom meeting tonight (also Sunday).

Do you really think that is true?

Absolutely.

I work 40 weeks a year at 65 hours a week= 2600 hours

50 weeks a year at 40 hours= 2000 hours
50 weeks a year at 50 hours= 2500 hours

So I absolutely believe some professionals work as much and even more. I also believe many/most don’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just got our school budget. Our librarian makes $140k. Most teachers make about $130k and they work for 9 months per year and they get a pension.
I am happy for them but people have to stop with pressuring parents to give them gift cards, valentine presents and all the talk about them not being well paid.
By

This is not valid in other states. I am just talking about DCPS and probably DC metro and other big cities.

That’s it 🙂

Yup. I have 20 years experience and am in a senior role at my large nonprofit and make $126. We have had some lovely, lovely teachers and assistants when my kids were at a title 1 elementary, and I was generous with the gifts. But I no longer go overboard or give gifts to individual teachers in middle and hs. They are professionals!

A 20 year teacher with a masters makes 112. https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/WTU%20FY20-FY23.pdf

I don't think I can put into words how maddening this thread is

How much do you think that other nonprofit professionals with 20 years of experience and a master's make, and who have similar benefits (except for the summar breaks, week at Christmas and Easter)? Who also have huge drawbacks in their work (which are hard to describe, relatively, because most of us can imagine what it's like to be in a classroom)?

The non profit professionals with 20 years of experience I know get tons of vacation and sick time and work from home 80% of the time.

True. Although the WFH is a new thing post COVID for the large majority of us. We also get vacation but I assure you, very, very very few nonprofit professionals get many weeks off in the summer, and week long breaks here and there.

It isn’t “weeks off.” It’s unpaid. I really need DCUM to stop thinking of my summers as some long, glorious, paid vacation. As it stands, I’ve already booked 2 week-long trainings that I’m paying for so I can keep my certification.

I work more hours in 10 months a year than most professionals do in 12. I was planning lessons at 5:30 this morning (Sunday) and I have a zoom meeting tonight (also Sunday).

Maybe I am dense here, but if we are comparing what you are paid OVER the 12 month stretch, regardless of the increments of when it comes, doesn't that amount to your annual salary?
And that is crappy you have to pay for certification. I know many, many of us in other fields also struggle to fit in training to keep up credentials. I wish I had 2 weeks when I didn't have to worry about otherwise getting super behind on work to do those trainings myself. I agree it shouldn't count as "vacation" time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just got our school budget. Our librarian makes $140k. Most teachers make about $130k and they work for 9 months per year and they get a pension.
I am happy for them but people have to stop with pressuring parents to give them gift cards, valentine presents and all the talk about them not being well paid.
By

This is not valid in other states. I am just talking about DCPS and probably DC metro and other big cities.

That’s it 🙂

Yup. I have 20 years experience and am in a senior role at my large nonprofit and make $126. We have had some lovely, lovely teachers and assistants when my kids were at a title 1 elementary, and I was generous with the gifts. But I no longer go overboard or give gifts to individual teachers in middle and hs. They are professionals!

A 20 year teacher with a masters makes 112. https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/WTU%20FY20-FY23.pdf

I don't think I can put into words how maddening this thread is

How much do you think that other nonprofit professionals with 20 years of experience and a master's make, and who have similar benefits (except for the summar breaks, week at Christmas and Easter)? Who also have huge drawbacks in their work (which are hard to describe, relatively, because most of us can imagine what it's like to be in a classroom)?

The non profit professionals with 20 years of experience I know get tons of vacation and sick time and work from home 80% of the time.

True. Although the WFH is a new thing post COVID for the large majority of us. We also get vacation but I assure you, very, very very few nonprofit professionals get many weeks off in the summer, and week long breaks here and there.

It isn’t “weeks off.” It’s unpaid. I really need DCUM to stop thinking of my summers as some long, glorious, paid vacation. As it stands, I’ve already booked 2 week-long trainings that I’m paying for so I can keep my certification.

I work more hours in 10 months a year than most professionals do in 12. I was planning lessons at 5:30 this morning (Sunday) and I have a zoom meeting tonight (also Sunday).

Do you really think that is true?

I would also respectfully suggest that what you need is systemic change to enroll many more resources, not a list of demands for a higher salary.

I wish a higher salary were realistic, but it's not, just like -- again -- its not realistic for most people in mission-based organizations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just got our school budget. Our librarian makes $140k. Most teachers make about $130k and they work for 9 months per year and they get a pension.
I am happy for them but people have to stop with pressuring parents to give them gift cards, valentine presents and all the talk about them not being well paid.
By

This is not valid in other states. I am just talking about DCPS and probably DC metro and other big cities.

That’s it 🙂

Yup. I have 20 years experience and am in a senior role at my large nonprofit and make $126. We have had some lovely, lovely teachers and assistants when my kids were at a title 1 elementary, and I was generous with the gifts. But I no longer go overboard or give gifts to individual teachers in middle and hs. They are professionals!

A 20 year teacher with a masters makes 112. https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/WTU%20FY20-FY23.pdf

I don't think I can put into words how maddening this thread is

How much do you think that other nonprofit professionals with 20 years of experience and a master's make, and who have similar benefits (except for the summar breaks, week at Christmas and Easter)? Who also have huge drawbacks in their work (which are hard to describe, relatively, because most of us can imagine what it's like to be in a classroom)?

The non profit professionals with 20 years of experience I know get tons of vacation and sick time and work from home 80% of the time.

True. Although the WFH is a new thing post COVID for the large majority of us. We also get vacation but I assure you, very, very very few nonprofit professionals get many weeks off in the summer, and week long breaks here and there.

It isn’t “weeks off.” It’s unpaid. I really need DCUM to stop thinking of my summers as some long, glorious, paid vacation. As it stands, I’ve already booked 2 week-long trainings that I’m paying for so I can keep my certification.

I work more hours in 10 months a year than most professionals do in 12. I was planning lessons at 5:30 this morning (Sunday) and I have a zoom meeting tonight (also Sunday).

My cousin retired after 20 years teaching in Hawaii public schools. About 58K was her salary. She worked a 2nd job those entire 20 years while raising her family. So many HI teachers receive public assistance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s also the question of what the public gets in exchange for these fat salaries, benefits, etc. The majority of public schools in DC are really terrible.

Are teachers truly to blame for all the problems of the school system?

Do we blame doctors when patients are diagnosed with cancer? Do we blame accountants for our bad financial decisions?

Yet we blame teachers when a neglected child cannot read on grade level.

Huh.

Ok well if teachers make no difference then you should be paid accordingly.

Makes no sense. Teachers are doing their jobs. The system makes it so that their jobs are incredibly difficult. If the system wants better results, they can do things differently. But to slam teachers is crazy—and it’s a lazy way of thinking. It’s incredibly difficult to treat certain cancers, but doctors who have a very low survival rate in their patients still get paid well. No one would suggest they get paid according to who lives. If a bus driver is stuck in a traffic jam, would you dock their pay for not making their route on time? Pick any job/profession. Only teachers get talked about this way. It’s so disrespectful.

Exactly. I suspect this lazy thinking is rooted in the idea that people *think* they know what teaching is like. After all, these posters sat in a classroom once. Many years ago.

Teachers know the truth, and they are performing miracles with limited resources daily.

Yes. I mean this PP even admitted it when they said:

"
How much do you think that other nonprofit professionals with 20 years of experience and a master's make, and who have similar benefits (except for the summar breaks, week at Christmas and Easter)? Who also have huge drawbacks in their work (which are hard to describe, relatively, because most of us can imagine what it's like to be in a classroom)?"
I remember before I began my career as a teacher that I imagined it was like how I perceived school when I was a kid. It's about as relevant as pretending you know what it's like to be a pilot bc you've been on an airplane or that you know what it's like to be a doctor bc you saw pediatrician as a child

People do this kind of thing with teachers ALL. THE. TIME. Dunning-Kruger all the way.

I didn't mean to say it wasn't hard, or that people understood the issues in the same way a professional would. But I am saying -- don't you think that the rest of us have huge drawbacks in our work, too, even though we aren't constantly iterating what they are?
In other words, there are really, really hard parts to MOST types of extremely rewarding work, in addition to relatively lower pay.