Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
I have either had kids or close friends with kids graduating HS over the last six or so years and this year seems like a departure from the last three years as HS '21 was a departure from HS '20 and preceding years. Am hearing about "last year Cornell took 5 and the year before 4 but this year 1" or the MI example above with a lot more frequency. It always seems tough when it is your kid's year, but from my POV, looking at it over this span, this feels like another inflection point.

Exactly what we're seeing in our circle - our school is a small private prep and out of 60ish kids and for many years we've sent at least one to every Ivy, and usually 1-3 to each of the Ivy +'s (Duke, Vandy, Stanford, MIT, UChicago, NU) and 3-5 to Michigan. Consistently for years... so far this year we only have one Ivy ED and one Ivy+. The rest just flat out rejections and everyone waiting on RD. It's definitely different at our school than prior cycles.

So what is going to happen to these kids?

Waitlists are going to be crazy this year.

My view - these schools have over-rotated on 1G/LI/URM in the early round with these kids sitting in many EA/ED offers and most waiting for RD (financial aid) so that it’s entirely possible to see some kids getting acceptances to all T15 or T20 schools. (Seeing it at our private). But they can only go to one school.

So they’ll visit the top choices in April, compare $$ offers, and accept. Meanwhile declining 14-19 spots, opening the door for WL movement.

Without effective algorithms and yield management, this could be a flurry of WL activity.

The other kids fight for a spot but realistically prob go OPS flagship or a T50 if they applied widely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have either had kids or close friends with kids graduating HS over the last six or so years and this year seems like a departure from the last three years as HS '21 was a departure from HS '20 and preceding years. Am hearing about "last year Cornell took 5 and the year before 4 but this year 1" or the MI example above with a lot more frequency. It always seems tough when it is your kid's year, but from my POV, looking at it over this span, this feels like another inflection point.

Exactly what we're seeing in our circle - our school is a small private prep and out of 60ish kids and for many years we've sent at least one to every Ivy, and usually 1-3 to each of the Ivy +'s (Duke, Vandy, Stanford, MIT, UChicago, NU) and 3-5 to Michigan. Consistently for years... so far this year we only have one Ivy ED and one Ivy+. The rest just flat out rejections and everyone waiting on RD. It's definitely different at our school than prior cycles.

So what is going to happen to these kids?

Anonymous wrote:
I have either had kids or close friends with kids graduating HS over the last six or so years and this year seems like a departure from the last three years as HS '21 was a departure from HS '20 and preceding years. Am hearing about "last year Cornell took 5 and the year before 4 but this year 1" or the MI example above with a lot more frequency. It always seems tough when it is your kid's year, but from my POV, looking at it over this span, this feels like another inflection point.

Exactly what we're seeing in our circle - our school is a small private prep and out of 60ish kids and for many years we've sent at least one to every Ivy, and usually 1-3 to each of the Ivy +'s (Duke, Vandy, Stanford, MIT, UChicago, NU) and 3-5 to Michigan. Consistently for years... so far this year we only have one Ivy ED and one Ivy+. The rest just flat out rejections and everyone waiting on RD. It's definitely different at our school than prior cycles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You people really like Michigan. At $80k/yr consider your options.

If an academically comparable Ivy (say, Penn/Cornell/Columbia) costs 90K a year, what would you pay for Michigan?

Not comparable but also look at the resources available per student. It is a large public university but priced like an Ivy without the benefits.

I'd say academically comparable but far from comparable from a resources available perspective. Have a kid at Michigan and an Ivy, so know this first hand.

Could you please elaborate. Very interested. This would be helpful to everyone. What is the resource difference that you see?

Not PP but the issues at large publics are extremely large classes, difficulty enrolling in required courses and courses of interest due to limited space, limited personal interaction with faculty, limited advising, the quality of housing and dining services, etc. The resources per student are much smaller and it can have a real impact such as having to delay graduation because of difficulty enrolling in courses and the challenges of getting to know faculty that write recommendation letters.

You just assume all large publics are the same. That’s not accurate either.

It is more accurate than not.

Not to mention budget cuts at some causing programs to be slashed or eliminated.

Is it 600 computer science majors that UMD is accepting now? (I don't know UMich so I'll use that number.) How many of them are going to be doing research with their professors and developing personal recommendations in case they want to continue schooling? All 600? How many professors will that take?

Another issue, and this is true across the board: colleges at every level have a hard time attracting computer science profs because they're competing with the free market and they can't pay accordingly.

So who's actually teaching? And what are they teaching?

We’re talking about The University of Michigan here. There are no budget cuts. While it’s true that colleges are having difficulties hiring CS professors, Michigan has the money to complete. I can’t speak for UMD either, but I do know that the school isn’t blessed with an 18 billion dollar endowment and half of its undergraduates paying high OOS tuition.

The budget for the school increased almost 8% this calendar year.

https://provost.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/GeneralFundBudget_2023-24.pdf

New CS building to be completed in 2025.

https://leinweber.bldg.umich.edu/

Michigan has also limited the enrollment for CS/CSE majors to keep things manageable.

https://cse.engin.umich.edu/academics/undergraduate/admissions/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people really like Michigan. At $80k/yr consider your options.

If an academically comparable Ivy (say, Penn/Cornell/Columbia) costs 90K a year, what would you pay for Michigan?

Not comparable but also look at the resources available per student. It is a large public university but priced like an Ivy without the benefits.

I'd say academically comparable but far from comparable from a resources available perspective. Have a kid at Michigan and an Ivy, so know this first hand.

Could you please elaborate. Very interested. This would be helpful to everyone. What is the resource difference that you see?

Not PP but the issues at large publics are extremely large classes, difficulty enrolling in required courses and courses of interest due to limited space, limited personal interaction with faculty, limited advising, the quality of housing and dining services, etc. The resources per student are much smaller and it can have a real impact such as having to delay graduation because of difficulty enrolling in courses and the challenges of getting to know faculty that write recommendation letters.

You just assume all large publics are the same. That’s not accurate either.

It is more accurate than not.

Not to mention budget cuts at some causing programs to be slashed or eliminated.

Is it 600 computer science majors that UMD is accepting now? (I don't know UMich so I'll use that number.) How many of them are going to be doing research with their professors and developing personal recommendations in case they want to continue schooling? All 600? How many professors will that take?

Another issue, and this is true across the board: colleges at every level have a hard time attracting computer science profs because they're competing with the free market and they can't pay accordingly.

So who's actually teaching? And what are they teaching?

Anonymous wrote:My dd was deferred last year and we thought no hope. She did indeed get in so don’t despair

Stats? Major? And what did she report?

Anonymous wrote:My dd was deferred last year and we thought no hope. She did indeed get in so don’t despair

did your dd report any big award besides a continue interest letter?

My dd was deferred last year and we thought no hope. She did indeed get in so don’t despair

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people really like Michigan. At $80k/yr consider your options.

If an academically comparable Ivy (say, Penn/Cornell/Columbia) costs 90K a year, what would you pay for Michigan?

Not comparable but also look at the resources available per student. It is a large public university but priced like an Ivy without the benefits.

I'd say academically comparable but far from comparable from a resources available perspective. Have a kid at Michigan and an Ivy, so know this first hand.

Could you please elaborate. Very interested. This would be helpful to everyone. What is the resource difference that you see?

Not PP but the issues at large publics are extremely large classes, difficulty enrolling in required courses and courses of interest due to limited space, limited personal interaction with faculty, limited advising, the quality of housing and dining services, etc. The resources per student are much smaller and it can have a real impact such as having to delay graduation because of difficulty enrolling in courses and the challenges of getting to know faculty that write recommendation letters.

You just assume all large publics are the same. That’s not accurate either.

It is more accurate than not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people really like Michigan. At $80k/yr consider your options.

If an academically comparable Ivy (say, Penn/Cornell/Columbia) costs 90K a year, what would you pay for Michigan?

Not comparable but also look at the resources available per student. It is a large public university but priced like an Ivy without the benefits.

I'd say academically comparable but far from comparable from a resources available perspective. Have a kid at Michigan and an Ivy, so know this first hand.

Could you please elaborate. Very interested. This would be helpful to everyone. What is the resource difference that you see?

Not PP but the issues at large publics are extremely large classes, difficulty enrolling in required courses and courses of interest due to limited space, limited personal interaction with faculty, limited advising, the quality of housing and dining services, etc. The resources per student are much smaller and it can have a real impact such as having to delay graduation because of difficulty enrolling in courses and the challenges of getting to know faculty that write recommendation letters.

You just assume all large publics are the same. That’s not accurate either.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Perfect GPA >>> 4.7/4.0
ACT 34
Pres NHS
VP StuCo
Treas Key Club
2 Varsity sports 3 years
Capt of both sports 2 years
State qualifier 3 years for one sport
Top band
OOS
DEFERRED FOR ENGINEERING
😑

Your ACT was too low. Seriously, you’ll more than likely get in during RD. I assume you’re not going to withdraw your application.

This. A 4.0 UW should frankly have better than a 34. It proves grade inflation.

😂 We couldn’t afford test prep. She took some practice tests online and we splurged for her to take twice: 33 and then 34. Grade inflation? No bruh. She’s a A student and top of her class, but our HS doesn’t do class rankings. Again, if a 34 is too low, she would have gotten in with a 4.0 UW and no test score? Unfair to me, when we were trying to give UM as much info as possible.

That's a great score and I would definitely submit. She will get in later!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people really like Michigan. At $80k/yr consider your options.

If an academically comparable Ivy (say, Penn/Cornell/Columbia) costs 90K a year, what would you pay for Michigan?

Not comparable but also look at the resources available per student. It is a large public university but priced like an Ivy without the benefits.

I'd say academically comparable but far from comparable from a resources available perspective. Have a kid at Michigan and an Ivy, so know this first hand.

Could you please elaborate. Very interested. This would be helpful to everyone. What is the resource difference that you see?

Not PP but the issues at large publics are extremely large classes, difficulty enrolling in required courses and courses of interest due to limited space, limited personal interaction with faculty, limited advising, the quality of housing and dining services, etc. The resources per student are much smaller and it can have a real impact such as having to delay graduation because of difficulty enrolling in courses and the challenges of getting to know faculty that write recommendation letters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people really like Michigan. At $80k/yr consider your options.

If an academically comparable Ivy (say, Penn/Cornell/Columbia) costs 90K a year, what would you pay for Michigan?

Not comparable but also look at the resources available per student. It is a large public university but priced like an Ivy without the benefits.

I'd say academically comparable but far from comparable from a resources available perspective. Have a kid at Michigan and an Ivy, so know this first hand.

Could you please elaborate. Very interested. This would be helpful to everyone. What is the resource difference that you see?

NP. Class sizes definitely larger. Even though intro classes at Ivies can be super large too. 200-300 kids in one course is not unusual for many intro classes.

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Anonymous wrote:Our CCO said it’s 3.95uw requirement for UM EA. In some cases test optional test optional is fine depending song on rest if cohort.

All algo based.

Most of the class gets in regular decision (gpa 3.8-3.95uw) with a few in the 3.7-3.8 range.

No one ever before below 3.7 uw. And remember, Michigan re-calculates GPA to take out pluses and minuses - do use the recalculated number. You can Google how to re-calculate your kids GPA according to UM.

Makes complete sense. Only question is with regular decision, is it still algo based?
Or holistic?

We are in-state and have SCOIR. There is a pretty sharp line around 3.9 GPA.

Our school is medium-sized and only sends about 10 kids a year. Few would go elsewhere if admitted.

Anecdata but my kid's friends feel there was a better result for EA at our in-state school so far.

I think people have to make the best case they can for "Why Michigan". Speaking frankly, there are few schools that are irreplaceable by a near substitute. I personally think only Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and CalTech.

PP, former Michigander here. If your school sends 10 only, where do others go?

Not in an elite school district. MSU is very, very popular. After that it's a mix of all the likely MI schools you could think of except people rarely bother with the expensive, small LACs. The value prop is not there. There seems to be some increasing attention to Indiana University at Bloomington which seems fair. We had one kid who is doing great at Maryland (surprise, surprise for you DMVers). Came back to give a presentation to the school board about her award for top student in her college within the University. A few go to Ohio. Bowling Green, Wooster.

Interesting. My hometown school district, also not elite but sounds larger, sends the greatest portion to the local regional university and community college. Then MSU (more popular with Black students) edges out Michigan but not by a lot. Smaller groups to the other regionals with a few even headed to Michigan Tech and Northern Michigan. After that, there are some who go to the MI or neighboring LACs/universities, both full pay and those seeking merit. Then there is always a handful, a little more, headed to Ivies, T20s, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people really like Michigan. At $80k/yr consider your options.

If an academically comparable Ivy (say, Penn/Cornell/Columbia) costs 90K a year, what would you pay for Michigan?

Not comparable but also look at the resources available per student. It is a large public university but priced like an Ivy without the benefits.

I'd say academically comparable but far from comparable from a resources available perspective. Have a kid at Michigan and an Ivy, so know this first hand.

Could you please elaborate. Very interested. This would be helpful to everyone. What is the resource difference that you see?