Columbia sounds intense even among the Le’s types of schools. Your daughter’s list is pretty incoherent. Your husband has given a long list of schools some of which are pretty transfer friendly. if I were your daughter, I’d apply now to Michigan, Vanderbilt (northwestern w quarter system sounds intense and Chicago doesn’t seem like a fit). Rice and maybe Williams. I don’t know if brown and Dartmouth are transfer friendly but if they are and assuming he’s ok w ivies then add those.

Those schools are going to likely feel more collegiate and less grindy. If she likes Columbia after the spring she can stay. If not she has options.

Anonymous wrote:Columbia to MSU is a bizarre choice. That sounds like a manic phase in the making

Agree, unless there is something that attracts the student to MSU's math major.

Anonymous wrote:It’s not that easy to transfer sophomore year

Have her come home community college then reapply

Her list is garbage honestly penn state Florida state to Colgate WTH? Who made that list ?

I agree with DH she stays or community college then she pays school of her choice

It’s not because her current school is an ivy that I agree with him it’s because she’s immature clearly from her list and should not be a four year school

She’s immature not college ready

That’s a lie. We know 3 kids who transferred last year from a T10, a T25, and a top slac. They are all sophomores at new colleges, and two are dramatically different schools, similar to what OP’s DD is interested in.

Columbia to MSU is a bizarre choice. That sounds like a manic phase in the making

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read through the entire forum but her list of potential schools are scattered but I can see that she’s looking for a type of experience. Your husbands list of applicable transfer schools are more of status and rigor which wouldn’t make sense . She’s looking for the opposite of what she has now. I would fight for my daughter tooth and nail than to watch her be miserable for 4 years. She’s smart enough to get into the school she’s at and fully capable of succeeding anywhere. Let her lead the way.

Don't you think that the daughter is overreacting as shown by her scattered list of schools ?

The father recognizes his daughter's abilities & cares about her future. Many academically elite schools are very different than NYC located Columbia University.

I haven’t read through the entire forum but her list of potential schools are scattered but I can see that she’s looking for a type of experience. Your husbands list of applicable transfer schools are more of status and rigor which wouldn’t make sense . She’s looking for the opposite of what she has now. I would fight for my daughter tooth and nail than to watch her be miserable for 4 years. She’s smart enough to get into the school she’s at and fully capable of succeeding anywhere. Let her lead the way.

Third the recommendation from cornell- much more of a college town experience and campus vibe then Columbia ( I graduated from cornell, my spouse from columbia). But I assume a math major is academically intense any college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP,

I totally understand where you’re coming from. I’m currently a student at a SLAC in the Midwest, but I transferred to my current school from Columbia.

The pressure cooker environment of Columbia and the NYC location make for a pretty miserable student body — there’s a reason why the school’s alumni have such low alumni giving rates.

I am much happier at a less prestigious college, and I think it’s pretty sad that people on this forum are siding with your DH and insist that your DD stay.

I’ll DM you soo.

I'm not insisting that DD stay, but I think DD needs to come up with a better list of schools before transferring. Don't make a second mistake.

(Different Poster)

Seems reasonable to expect a certain level of school for a student as intelligent & accomplished as your daughter.

I have suggested Vanderbilt & Northwestern as transfer friendly schools. Boston University is another.

Transfer students are eligible for merit scholarships at some schools ( U Miami, for example, offers partial merit scholarships). Eligible for first year merit scholarships at some schools if transferring in with up to 30 semester hours of college course credit. (However, the most generous transfer scholarships are for community college students.)

Because your daughter is a math major, she may be a strong candidate for transfer admission to Williams College--a school which is very strong in math.

Does your daughter have any career plans or goals ? Teaching ?

As one who should have, but did not, transfer, I encourage you to take your daughter's plea to transfer seriously. College experience can affect one for life. Columbia, as well as NYC, is not for everyone.

Because great urban centers (like NYC) have so much to offer, undergraduates at urban colleges and universities tend not to center their lives on campus with the result that attending such a school can be overwhelming and, paradoxically, isolating. Such is especially true for first-year students for whom it may take a semester or two and sometimes more to find their "tribe(s)." It is perfectly normal for the OP's daughter to be feeling as though she still hasn't found a sense of community on campus, and it's still perfectly possible for her to find her niche at Columbia this coming spring. It's also not uncommon for students to discover that a particular environment is not for them, and as the pp points out, "Columbia, as well as NYC, is not for everyone." That said, I don't think the OP's husband is wrong to insist that his daughter transfer to an academically comparable school if indeed she's going to transfer, and I echo others in this thread who have pointed out that Michigan fulfills both his criteria and his daughter's. It's one thing to want a less stressful, less intense vibe; it's another to want an actual party school.

Anonymous wrote:

dcmom12345 wrote:To add- we live in Maryland so I brought up in UMD as an option with DD seemed okay with but DH put on list of "will not pay for". He gave a list of universities he would consider acceptable which was limited to Chicago, Duke, MIT, Stanford, Caltech, AWS, JHU, Northwestern, RICE, Vandy, Michigan, and Berkeley.

Your husband has given a list of 14 schools for which he would be willing to pay. Based on the transfer acceptance rates from a few years ago, the most realistic options among the list of 14 schools are:

Michigan, Northwestern, Rice, Vanderbilt, and U Chicago. Are any of these 5 National Universities of interest to your daughter ?

Your daughter's list of target schools appears to be a cry for help as Colgate, Wash & Lee, Syracuse, Penn State, FSU, U Miami, and Michigan State are quite different from her current school of Columbia University. Clearly, your daughter wants a much different and far less competitive environment.

U Chicago & Northwestern tend to be more intense academically than Rice, Vanderbilt, and Michigan. U Chicago is outstanding for math, but it is in an urban environment. Northwestern is on the more fast-paced quarter system in which students are expected, but not required, to take 4 courses per quarter term.

OP: Can your daughter and husband agree on any transfer target schools ?

As I wrote in another post in this thread, Vanderbilt & Northwestern are transfer friendly schools and I suspect that Rice is as well. Michigan is so large that it might overwhelm a transfer student even though Michigan would be a far less intense environment than that at Columbia.

Assuming that your daughter may not be open to Houston, Texas (Rice University), maybe she can focus on Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and Colgate as target schools which offer a realistic chance of admission and the status that your husband is seeking for your daughter and his dollars.

Chicago has a quarter system as well and is more intense than Northwestern.

Anonymous wrote:I think more than have of freshman want to transfer at some point during the fall and esp over the break. Mine did. It is so common and part of adjustment. He even had applications filled out. Never submitted and by April of freshmam year was so much better. Now a soph and so happy.

Check out this:

https://counseling.studentaffairs.miami.edu/_assets/pdf/the-w-curve-and-the-first-year-of-college.pdf

This is why colleges should have RUSH in the FALL instead of the SPRING. Once freshmen get in a FRAT and find their TRIBE, campus starts to feel like HOME.

Anonymous wrote:I think more than have of freshman want to transfer at some point during the fall and esp over the break. Mine did. It is so common and part of adjustment. He even had applications filled out. Never submitted and by April of freshmam year was so much better. Now a soph and so happy.

Check out this:

https://counseling.studentaffairs.miami.edu/_assets/pdf/the-w-curve-and-the-first-year-of-college.pdf

I want to comment on this W curve. This is a reasonable analysis and this curve is often shared by study abroad programs to help students understand what they will experience.

However, I was not prepared to assimilate to my freshman year college's social values. I rejected them. I still reject them. I transferred after the first year (with straight As). I was much happier after transferring. I don't think I ever would have been comfortable at that first school even though I'm sure I could have kept my grades and chin up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP,

I totally understand where you’re coming from. I’m currently a student at a SLAC in the Midwest, but I transferred to my current school from Columbia.

The pressure cooker environment of Columbia and the NYC location make for a pretty miserable student body — there’s a reason why the school’s alumni have such low alumni giving rates.

I am much happier at a less prestigious college, and I think it’s pretty sad that people on this forum are siding with your DH and insist that your DD stay.

I’ll DM you soo.

I'm not insisting that DD stay, but I think DD needs to come up with a better list of schools before transferring. Don't make a second mistake.

(Different Poster)

Seems reasonable to expect a certain level of school for a student as intelligent & accomplished as your daughter.

I have suggested Vanderbilt & Northwestern as transfer friendly schools. Boston University is another.

Transfer students are eligible for merit scholarships at some schools ( U Miami, for example, offers partial merit scholarships). Eligible for first year merit scholarships at some schools if transferring in with up to 30 semester hours of college course credit. (However, the most generous transfer scholarships are for community college students.)

Because your daughter is a math major, she may be a strong candidate for transfer admission to Williams College--a school which is very strong in math.

Does your daughter have any career plans or goals ? Teaching ?

As one who should have, but did not, transfer, I encourage you to take your daughter's plea to transfer seriously. College experience can affect one for life. Columbia, as well as NYC, is not for everyone.

Anonymous wrote:Is Michigan a lot less intense than Columbia? Genuinely interested to know. As such, does the comparison hold for non-engineering, non-math areas as well? Say, economics or political science?

I currently live in Michigan. Attended Michigan for MBA school. Have worked with many U of M people in different fields.

Midwestern culture is different from DMV and NYC. Much more emphasis on appearing conventional, pleasant, nice, understated vs. appearing smart, accomplished, demanding, verbal. This cuts both ways as far as cultural strengths and weaknesses. Since U of M undergrad still has a large % of top of class in-state kids I would expect that to hold.

I agree that the target list of schools sounded disjointed. However, Michigan and MSU have a lot more in common than they'd like to admit. PSU also shares in that commonality. It's more than just the football culture - they are big state schools with student bodies drawn from top 30% of high school classes. One could get a good education at any of them. Michigan is harder to get into and has a more intellectual vibe if you have no interest in sports. [By the way, the immediate past president of Columbia (Lee Bollinger) came directly from running U of M which suggests some philosophical compatibility of approaches.]

A math department for a female student could have a microclimate that people outside the department wouldn't know about (e.g., the male/female skew, whether it's mostly international or out of state students, how hard the weed out courses are). That should be researched before applying.

The more quant the major, the more of a weed-out it is. I do not have direct experience but I would expect econ to be tougher than poli sci, although you could probably fine tune the difficulty in econ quite a bit to be easier or harder.

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP,

I totally understand where you’re coming from. I’m currently a student at a SLAC in the Midwest, but I transferred to my current school from Columbia.

The pressure cooker environment of Columbia and the NYC location make for a pretty miserable student body — there’s a reason why the school’s alumni have such low alumni giving rates.

I am much happier at a less prestigious college, and I think it’s pretty sad that people on this forum are siding with your DH and insist that your DD stay.

I’ll DM you soo.

I'm not insisting that DD stay, but I think DD needs to come up with a better list of schools before transferring. Don't make a second mistake.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

dcmom12345 wrote:I agree and offered my support for her to transfer. The issue is I can't pay for it alone and DH won't contribute.

Does your husband make all the decisions in your household? I don’t see why his opinions matters on this. He needs to respect his daughter’s decision, and you need to get him to that place.

His opinion matters because it can’t be done unless he pays, nitwit.

If DD decides to flout his wishes then he does not have to “respect” that in the sense of paying for it.

This isn’t the Stone Age, dear

So you think children are automatically owed an expensive college education, paid for by their parents?

Tell me more.

Well, one of the parents (mom) agrees with the DD. It’s only the father who is resorting to threats and other nonsense.

Clearly the father is the issue. If you think this is acceptable, that says much about you. In my family, we tell our kids our budget and we allow them to choose. My DH and I had our chance to chose our colleges when were young, we don’t also need to choose a college for our kids.