I was a middle school teacher who had an all-girls advisory. The girls mentioned to me that boys in the class were being inappropriate. However, they wouldn’t name the boys or be specific about the behavior. They did tell me in what teacher’s classes it tended to be a bigger issue. I was livid. Administration seemed to think that sternly talking to the boys as a group would solve things. What we needed was more attentive observers in some classrooms and real consequences for the perpetrators. One of those boys went on to sexually harass a teacher later; he learned that his behavior got him the social power that he wanted.

The groper kid has groped twice. Given the opportunity, he will do it again, barring a clear consequence (social or disciplinary).

As a teacher, I hope you’ll talk to your principal/head of school. I also hope that you will have a conversation with your child about what you’re sharing and why. Therapists and school counselors often have to have conversations with kids about the fact that some things *do* need to be shared with other adults.

Anonymous wrote:The next time somebody assaults her (and there will be a next time), she needs to grab hold of them, hang on until she is dragged off, and in the meantime do everything she possibly can to visibly and painfully injure the attacker, all the while screaming “stop molesting me” at the top of her lungs. Practice gently at home. Get the therapist involved.

Seriously? Have you ever actually been to a high school? This would be very weird behavior completely out of proportion to what’s happening (unless “grope” is being used to describe something much different from what I think most of us understand).

MS and HS boys are awkwardly fumbling around trying to learn to how to flirt with girls, demonstrate interest, compete with one another, etc. Of course they shouldn’t be assaulting anyone. But if we’re talking about like a playful slap on the butt or something, I think DD can stand up for herself forcefully and tell the kid to knock it off without making herself look like a crazy person. I can just picture it… clawing at this kid, gouging eyes, hanging on to his shirt and screaming “stop molesting me!” in the middle of the hallway.

I'm not a big fan of calling the police for this. Also not sure what age we're talking about (haven't read through the whole thread at this point). But I would absolutely involve the school, find your daughter a therapist (you said she was already depressed so there are other things going on anyway), and instead of having her view herself as a victim, try to change the narrative of to one of empowerment. There's no need to make this the equivalent of a worse kind of assault because that sets her up for future assaults frankly. It doesn't have to be boys being boys either. Just some people have no boundaries and make bad decisions and you have the power over yourself. Messaging is important here. Also, groping means a ton of things so unless you know what it means for her I wouldn't assume the worst, but if it crosses even your line, you should tell her you will go with her or tak to the school without her, but they have to know. It would help her to talk to the school counselor. And if the teacher knows, then they are required to report it to the school, so I would be very surprised if they haven't btw.

Anonymous wrote:I would fully be supportive of my DD punching the daylights out of the boy.

I also have a DS, fwiw, and if he did that, I would be fully supportive of the girl punching the daylights out of DS.

You need to document these cases; bring it up again to the school. Then if nothing is done by the school, take to to MCPS with your documentation.

If my son did that I would support you calling the police and scare the crap pit of him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was groped in MS, and when horrified, I told a friend, their response was, "oh yeah, they do that all the time, nbd." I've never mentioned this to any one else, now mid-50s.

Please tell the school what's going on - this is not ok behavior

That's gen x for ya. I'm 52 and remember being a teen discussing with other girls what happens if you drink too much at a party. "if you get drunk, you'll end up with someone's dick or fingers in one of your holes". We pretty much went into situations assuming responsibility for the rapes of guys. "Shouldn't have gotten drunk", "That's what happens when you pass out at a party", "Keep an eye on me if I drink too much", etc We victim blamed reflexively. I shudder at the memories.

I posted earlier about being groped at school. I'm 53. The sad/sick thing is, some of us knew at the time that this was pure bs. As you say though, it was the "they do this all the time" attitude. Girls were responsible for the behavior of boys.

Anonymous wrote:For other readers … a suggestion where you have a child who is refusing to go to the school or police. Get them to at least write an email and send it to themselves (and ideally you) with as many details as possible. Then you at least have a contemporaneous time stamped account of the incident so no one can say you made it up later. Sometimes the process of writing it out is also helpful in moving victims to a place where they feel comfortable reporting. Many victims are initially more comfortable with doing something just to preserve the record and take a little time to get to a place of confidence to report.

It doesn't even have to be in a time stamped format. Write it down with as many details as possible, starting with the date and time she (or anyone else) is writing it.

Anonymous wrote:I was groped in MS, and when horrified, I told a friend, their response was, "oh yeah, they do that all the time, nbd." I've never mentioned this to any one else, now mid-50s.

Please tell the school what's going on - this is not ok behavior

That's gen x for ya. I'm 52 and remember being a teen discussing with other girls what happens if you drink too much at a party. "if you get drunk, you'll end up with someone's dick or fingers in one of your holes". We pretty much went into situations assuming responsibility for the rapes of guys. "Shouldn't have gotten drunk", "That's what happens when you pass out at a party", "Keep an eye on me if I drink too much", etc We victim blamed reflexively. I shudder at the memories.

I was groped in MS, and when horrified, I told a friend, their response was, "oh yeah, they do that all the time, nbd." I've never mentioned this to any one else, now mid-50s.

Please tell the school what's going on - this is not ok behavior

Anonymous wrote:I’d tell her that she has the responsibility to protect other girls from experiencing what she did. She is likely not alone. She’s only 12 and you need to step in.

Victim balme much? Listen, I feel this way, you may feel this way, no one belongs telling a 12!yo that THEY are responsible for protecting other girls from experiencing this or worse. Of all the people responsible, it is least of all hers except to the extent she chooses to involve herself in that way. -SA survivor who did file a meaningless order of protection based on the adults around me KNOWING it was happening to other girls after me, I just had the most compelling story and they wanted to use mine to implent other ways of distancing my peer from school grounds. Shameful of them to use me in that way.

I’d tell her that she has the responsibility to protect other girls from experiencing what she did. She is likely not alone. She’s only 12 and you need to step in.

Anonymous wrote:For other readers … a suggestion where you have a child who is refusing to go to the school or police. Get them to at least write an email and send it to themselves (and ideally you) with as many details as possible. Then you at least have a contemporaneous time stamped account of the incident so no one can say you made it up later. Sometimes the process of writing it out is also helpful in moving victims to a place where they feel comfortable reporting. Many victims are initially more comfortable with doing something just to preserve the record and take a little time to get to a place of confidence to report.

Great idea!

Anonymous wrote:For other readers … a suggestion where you have a child who is refusing to go to the school or police. Get them to at least write an email and send it to themselves (and ideally you) with as many details as possible. Then you at least have a contemporaneous time stamped account of the incident so no one can say you made it up later. Sometimes the process of writing it out is also helpful in moving victims to a place where they feel comfortable reporting. Many victims are initially more comfortable with doing something just to preserve the record and take a little time to get to a place of confidence to report.

DP

Thank you for this suggestion. Makes sense.

For other readers … a suggestion where you have a child who is refusing to go to the school or police. Get them to at least write an email and send it to themselves (and ideally you) with as many details as possible. Then you at least have a contemporaneous time stamped account of the incident so no one can say you made it up later. Sometimes the process of writing it out is also helpful in moving victims to a place where they feel comfortable reporting. Many victims are initially more comfortable with doing something just to preserve the record and take a little time to get to a place of confidence to report.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. This has to go to law enforcement. The grouper needs to know this won’t be tolerated, and the girl needs to know that sexual assault is always reported to law enforcement.

Law enforcement? You mean, like, police??!? NO!

Police should be defunded. Police should never be in schools. #BlackLivesMatter

Wow, are there really even MAGA trolls here? Fascinating. But no, you aren't fooling anyone with your fabricated "Antifa" posts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

It is not effective for the victim. At all.

I've worked in a court that practiced it. I've seen families of murder victims and actual rape victims themselves swear by it when it was all over. I understand that you don't believe in it, but don't for a moment try to speak for all the victims who said it actually was healing & effective when they thought nothing would ever heal them. If a family of someone murdered or someone raped by the defendant feel that way, and the defendant once they do their time doesn't re-offend anymore, that is effective more so than most of what happens every day in this country. Problem is it's very very hard to consistently do it right and you have to constantly be training staff and re-training staff.

There is a big difference between a convicted murderer doing it through a court and an accused grouper using it as a way to escape punishment

You're proving how little you know about this. Just about everyone caught doing something they weren't supposed to do and that they're getting in trouble for is looking for a way out. It would never be effective in schools (when done right) if "an accused groper wanted to use it to escape punishment" - Newsflash: EVERY kid accused of something they know they did wants to escape punishment. Maybe read up on Restorative Justice and how it is supposed to work before you try to dismiss it while showing you know almost nothing about it. When done right... it works very well. It is very hard to do it right, so it's hard to have as "The go-to consequence" in an overwhelmed school system that can't commit the staff & time to doing it well all the time.

So is restorative justice the new communism? That’s never been implemented correctly so we’ve never seen how good it could be?

+1 exactly, it's just a ridiculous talking point

+2