Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing the schools at the start of the pandemic, when no one really understood what we were dealing with, was pragmatic. Keeping the schools closed once the evidence showed that children by and large were not suffering significant adverse effects from Covid was insane. They should have been back (in person) for the start of the 2020-21 school year, especially the elementary aged kids for whom there was less risk of illness as well as it being far more important for them to be in school in person.

The evidence was not there at the end of the summer 2020. One study of a childcare facility?

The evidence was consistent from very early on in the pandemic, even the summer of 2020. Kids have consistently been shown to be at minimal risk.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing the schools at the start of the pandemic, when no one really understood what we were dealing with, was pragmatic. Keeping the schools closed once the evidence showed that children by and large were not suffering significant adverse effects from Covid was insane. They should have been back (in person) for the start of the 2020-21 school year, especially the elementary aged kids for whom there was less risk of illness as well as it being far more important for them to be in school in person.

The evidence was not there at the end of the summer 2020. One study of a childcare facility?

It was crystal clear by the summer of 2020 that the people becoming severely ill and/or dying from Covid were the elderly and those with compromised immune systems or underlying heart or respiratory issues. There was zero evidence of young children suffering adverse effects (and obviously we are talking statistically significant- there are always outliers).

That’s right. And what changed? The teachers unions got ahold of the AAP. AAP was recommending a return to school in fall 2020 until Randi W intervened. True story!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Literally no one is denying gaps.

Literally many denied gaps would appear when it was obvious they would.

Literally none of those people have resigned or been fired.

Okay but the bolded isn't what the PP said. Move on

Anonymous wrote:Literally no one is denying gaps.

Literally many denied gaps would appear when it was obvious they would.

Literally none of those people have resigned or been fired.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. To some of us this was obvious from the get-go. Now go apologize to Ron DeSantis.

+ a billion.

Plus, let's demand some accountability. Time for NYT Editorial Board to resign. All of them.

Ha ha. Some of you are really pieces of work.

Worried you will lose your job?

What?

What is your interest in trying to shut down any discussion about where things went wrong? You are awfully defensive and paranoid that we might have to admit mistakes were made. Why is that?

My kids go to Catholic school, so they were back in person school in fall 2020.

Some of you are kind of crazy.

Mine too, but I had to move from a batshit crazy place to get that. Had we stayed put the kids would have been out until late spring 2021. That's messed up. There was no reason for that whatsoever. There were some terrible decisions and we should hold people accountable for that. Why not?

And you think you get to command the NYT editorial board to resign? Move on. It is 2023. The kids who were hurt the most are the ones who have crazy parents.

Why don't you just sit this conversation out if you aren't interested? What harm is it to you if people want to learn where we went wrong and how do to better in the future?

Let it go. Let it go. Some of you have lost your minds. Go for a walk or something.

You are obsessed with shutting this down. What are you so worried about? Go for a walk yourself if this doesn't interest you.

I realize that posting on a message board that the NYT editorial board must resign is crazy. And ineffective. Go run for your school board if you want to make decisions. Instead of posting nonsense here.

It's amusing how much this bothers you. Must be hitting close to home.

Everyone should be concerned with the nutters running around in 2023 trying to blame people for handling the pandemic in a reasonable, rational way. I’m sorry that the pandemic was hard for you but you’re misdirecting your anger.

The important thing now is addressing educational gaps. Focus on that.

(And glad you finally care about some of the many educational challenges that have existed for a long time and were magnified by the pandemic.)

How do you suggest we do that without admitting that there are problems? Why did the closures set kids back? What do you propose we do right now to address the problems in our public schools?

Have you ever been in a school? These problems existed before the pandemic. The pandemic just exacerbated them. Glad you are paying attention now.

Exactly.

Instead of attacking the people who are actively addressing these issues why don’t you find a way to support them.

Unless you have ulterior (political) motives.

So you are a teacher, is that why you're hyper defensive?

I’m a parent who detests irrational a-holes still attacking our schools/teachers YEARS later. It’s almost as if you don’t want to fix anything at all, just complain about it.

At least you admit your bias.

Yes, I’m biased against school-hating a-holes.

You didn't tolerate the complaining back in 2020 either. Not all of us agree that teachers and admins are beyond reproach. It's ok to hold their feet to the fire now. They were wrong.

Why? What is your goal here?

To discuss the topic at hand. Run along now.

Anonymous wrote:Will the politicians learn anything? I doubt it. Except maybe they’ll be more careful not to cause public ire with their nonsensical policies?

Will anyone be held accountable? Heck no!

Have I learned anything? Heck yeah! Next time I pull my kid out of the virtual “school” immediately and take him traveling or we move to a place that has some common sense left.

That's a sane response.

Will the politicians learn anything? I doubt it. Except maybe they’ll be more careful not to cause public ire with their nonsensical policies?

Will anyone be held accountable? Heck no!

Have I learned anything? Heck yeah! Next time I pull my kid out of the virtual “school” immediately and take him traveling or we move to a place that has some common sense left.

Anonymous wrote:Literally no one is denying gaps.

+1 I just read this whole thread (bc apparently I have a death wish), and I find it so strange that people want to take a victory lap on this and blame teachers and unions (and the NYT lol) for political agendas.

You figured us out: we wanted our field to be completely devalued while simultaneously our jobs become exponentially harder. Just so we could wear sweatpants and watch Netflix, right? That was the goal?

Of course there was learning loss; you being "correct" about this in 2020 doesn't earn you any extra points or make the kids any more or less behind

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Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. To some of us this was obvious from the get-go. Now go apologize to Ron DeSantis.

+ a billion.

Plus, let's demand some accountability. Time for NYT Editorial Board to resign. All of them.

Ha ha. Some of you are really pieces of work.

Worried you will lose your job?

What?

What is your interest in trying to shut down any discussion about where things went wrong? You are awfully defensive and paranoid that we might have to admit mistakes were made. Why is that?

My kids go to Catholic school, so they were back in person school in fall 2020.

Some of you are kind of crazy.

Mine too, but I had to move from a batshit crazy place to get that. Had we stayed put the kids would have been out until late spring 2021. That's messed up. There was no reason for that whatsoever. There were some terrible decisions and we should hold people accountable for that. Why not?

And you think you get to command the NYT editorial board to resign? Move on. It is 2023. The kids who were hurt the most are the ones who have crazy parents.

Why don't you just sit this conversation out if you aren't interested? What harm is it to you if people want to learn where we went wrong and how do to better in the future?

Let it go. Let it go. Some of you have lost your minds. Go for a walk or something.

You are obsessed with shutting this down. What are you so worried about? Go for a walk yourself if this doesn't interest you.

I realize that posting on a message board that the NYT editorial board must resign is crazy. And ineffective. Go run for your school board if you want to make decisions. Instead of posting nonsense here.

It's amusing how much this bothers you. Must be hitting close to home.

Everyone should be concerned with the nutters running around in 2023 trying to blame people for handling the pandemic in a reasonable, rational way. I’m sorry that the pandemic was hard for you but you’re misdirecting your anger.

The important thing now is addressing educational gaps. Focus on that.

(And glad you finally care about some of the many educational challenges that have existed for a long time and were magnified by the pandemic.)

How do you suggest we do that without admitting that there are problems? Why did the closures set kids back? What do you propose we do right now to address the problems in our public schools?

Have you ever been in a school? These problems existed before the pandemic. The pandemic just exacerbated them. Glad you are paying attention now.

Exactly.

Instead of attacking the people who are actively addressing these issues why don’t you find a way to support them.

Unless you have ulterior (political) motives.

So you are a teacher, is that why you're hyper defensive?

I’m a parent who detests irrational a-holes still attacking our schools/teachers YEARS later. It’s almost as if you don’t want to fix anything at all, just complain about it.

At least you admit your bias.

Yes, I’m biased against school-hating a-holes.

You didn't tolerate the complaining back in 2020 either. Not all of us agree that teachers and admins are beyond reproach. It's ok to hold their feet to the fire now. They were wrong.

For starters teachers should quit the unions which drove the insane anti-kid and anti-parent agenda.

Literally no one is denying gaps.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. To some of us this was obvious from the get-go. Now go apologize to Ron DeSantis.

+ a billion.

Plus, let's demand some accountability. Time for NYT Editorial Board to resign. All of them.

Ha ha. Some of you are really pieces of work.

Worried you will lose your job?

What?

What is your interest in trying to shut down any discussion about where things went wrong? You are awfully defensive and paranoid that we might have to admit mistakes were made. Why is that?

My kids go to Catholic school, so they were back in person school in fall 2020.

Some of you are kind of crazy.

Mine too, but I had to move from a batshit crazy place to get that. Had we stayed put the kids would have been out until late spring 2021. That's messed up. There was no reason for that whatsoever. There were some terrible decisions and we should hold people accountable for that. Why not?

And you think you get to command the NYT editorial board to resign? Move on. It is 2023. The kids who were hurt the most are the ones who have crazy parents.

Why don't you just sit this conversation out if you aren't interested? What harm is it to you if people want to learn where we went wrong and how do to better in the future?

Let it go. Let it go. Some of you have lost your minds. Go for a walk or something.

You are obsessed with shutting this down. What are you so worried about? Go for a walk yourself if this doesn't interest you.

I realize that posting on a message board that the NYT editorial board must resign is crazy. And ineffective. Go run for your school board if you want to make decisions. Instead of posting nonsense here.

It's amusing how much this bothers you. Must be hitting close to home.

Everyone should be concerned with the nutters running around in 2023 trying to blame people for handling the pandemic in a reasonable, rational way. I’m sorry that the pandemic was hard for you but you’re misdirecting your anger.

The important thing now is addressing educational gaps. Focus on that.

(And glad you finally care about some of the many educational challenges that have existed for a long time and were magnified by the pandemic.)

How do you suggest we do that without admitting that there are problems? Why did the closures set kids back? What do you propose we do right now to address the problems in our public schools?

Have you ever been in a school? These problems existed before the pandemic. The pandemic just exacerbated them. Glad you are paying attention now.

Yeah, so schools had problems before the pandemic, and then . . . we gave kids even less than before for more than a year, ignored their social and developmental needs, and therefore . . .. everything is fine? Do things seem fine in public schools to you?

Literally no one said everything is fine.

Go find a new battle, hoss.

Then give us some suggestions for improving things that don't include doing the same thing we have always done.

First up, stop attacking schools/teachers. Start respecting and listening to teachers. Get involved in the school system. Support additional taxes to fund tutoring, extra specialists, etc. It doesn’t just magically happen.

Who is attacking teachers? The pandemic screwed things up, and all I hear about is how it's all parents' fault, with little reflection on what schools could be doing better. I think we missed an opportunity to come together by sweeping the pandemic under the rug and not dealing with some of the issues it created. We might not be having these conversations years later if there had been an honest acknowledgment that kids were going to be set back in the name of public health and a good faith effort to deal with it. Solving these problems starts by acknowledging that we have a problem.

Until the pandemic, I was an active volunteer in the school system for over 15 years. In fact, at one time, I worked part-time hours (at my own stressful job) and spent my one day off volunteering at my kids' school. I've given a huge part of my life to supporting kids in our community and public schools. How much time do you give that doesn't directly involve your children? I support additional taxes to fund tutoring and whatever else is needed. I think there should have been a lot more tutoring from the minute schools reopened, but that wasn't done, and I don't understand why.

During the pandemic, I learned that instead of being a partner with schools, people like you who claim to be "pro-teacher" think I'm supposed to provide blind support, money, time, energy, and caring without asking questions or having opinions of my own. I'm not permitted to question whether what we are doing is enough, whether there's a better way to do it, or whether certain decisions are in kids' best interest. I don't even have kids in public schools anymore, but I care enough to want more for our kids. I'm still having trouble processing how little compassion has been shown to students and families in the aftermath of the closures and how little urgency and flexibility to address problems have been demonstrated.

People making decisions may have done the best they could with the information they had, but they also shut down any dissent and refused to consider or acknowledge the impact closures (and the pandemic itself) had on students and their families, and that continues to this day. Not only did the denial alienate many families who have given the most to support their kids' school, but it also set back the students who needed support the most. It will take money to address these issues. I don't mind paying more taxes for the greater good, but I don't see how the greater good is served by throwing money at problems that those trusted with making decisions about education won't admit exist and who don't have any novel plans to deal with the fallout of an unprecedented health emergency.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. To some of us this was obvious from the get-go. Now go apologize to Ron DeSantis.

+ a billion.

Plus, let's demand some accountability. Time for NYT Editorial Board to resign. All of them.

Ha ha. Some of you are really pieces of work.

Worried you will lose your job?

What?

What is your interest in trying to shut down any discussion about where things went wrong? You are awfully defensive and paranoid that we might have to admit mistakes were made. Why is that?

My kids go to Catholic school, so they were back in person school in fall 2020.

Some of you are kind of crazy.

Mine too, but I had to move from a batshit crazy place to get that. Had we stayed put the kids would have been out until late spring 2021. That's messed up. There was no reason for that whatsoever. There were some terrible decisions and we should hold people accountable for that. Why not?

And you think you get to command the NYT editorial board to resign? Move on. It is 2023. The kids who were hurt the most are the ones who have crazy parents.

Why don't you just sit this conversation out if you aren't interested? What harm is it to you if people want to learn where we went wrong and how do to better in the future?

Let it go. Let it go. Some of you have lost your minds. Go for a walk or something.

You are obsessed with shutting this down. What are you so worried about? Go for a walk yourself if this doesn't interest you.

I realize that posting on a message board that the NYT editorial board must resign is crazy. And ineffective. Go run for your school board if you want to make decisions. Instead of posting nonsense here.

It's amusing how much this bothers you. Must be hitting close to home.

Everyone should be concerned with the nutters running around in 2023 trying to blame people for handling the pandemic in a reasonable, rational way. I’m sorry that the pandemic was hard for you but you’re misdirecting your anger.

The important thing now is addressing educational gaps. Focus on that.

(And glad you finally care about some of the many educational challenges that have existed for a long time and were magnified by the pandemic.)

How do you suggest we do that without admitting that there are problems? Why did the closures set kids back? What do you propose we do right now to address the problems in our public schools?

Have you ever been in a school? These problems existed before the pandemic. The pandemic just exacerbated them. Glad you are paying attention now.

Exactly.

Instead of attacking the people who are actively addressing these issues why don’t you find a way to support them.

Unless you have ulterior (political) motives.

So you are a teacher, is that why you're hyper defensive?

I’m a parent who detests irrational a-holes still attacking our schools/teachers YEARS later. It’s almost as if you don’t want to fix anything at all, just complain about it.

At least you admit your bias.

Yes, I’m biased against school-hating a-holes.

You didn't tolerate the complaining back in 2020 either. Not all of us agree that teachers and admins are beyond reproach. It's ok to hold their feet to the fire now. They were wrong.

Why? What is your goal here?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. To some of us this was obvious from the get-go. Now go apologize to Ron DeSantis.

+ a billion.

Plus, let's demand some accountability. Time for NYT Editorial Board to resign. All of them.

Ha ha. Some of you are really pieces of work.

Worried you will lose your job?

What?

What is your interest in trying to shut down any discussion about where things went wrong? You are awfully defensive and paranoid that we might have to admit mistakes were made. Why is that?

My kids go to Catholic school, so they were back in person school in fall 2020.

Some of you are kind of crazy.

Mine too, but I had to move from a batshit crazy place to get that. Had we stayed put the kids would have been out until late spring 2021. That's messed up. There was no reason for that whatsoever. There were some terrible decisions and we should hold people accountable for that. Why not?

And you think you get to command the NYT editorial board to resign? Move on. It is 2023. The kids who were hurt the most are the ones who have crazy parents.

Why don't you just sit this conversation out if you aren't interested? What harm is it to you if people want to learn where we went wrong and how do to better in the future?

Let it go. Let it go. Some of you have lost your minds. Go for a walk or something.

You are obsessed with shutting this down. What are you so worried about? Go for a walk yourself if this doesn't interest you.

I realize that posting on a message board that the NYT editorial board must resign is crazy. And ineffective. Go run for your school board if you want to make decisions. Instead of posting nonsense here.

It's amusing how much this bothers you. Must be hitting close to home.

Everyone should be concerned with the nutters running around in 2023 trying to blame people for handling the pandemic in a reasonable, rational way. I’m sorry that the pandemic was hard for you but you’re misdirecting your anger.

The important thing now is addressing educational gaps. Focus on that.

(And glad you finally care about some of the many educational challenges that have existed for a long time and were magnified by the pandemic.)

How do you suggest we do that without admitting that there are problems? Why did the closures set kids back? What do you propose we do right now to address the problems in our public schools?

Have you ever been in a school? These problems existed before the pandemic. The pandemic just exacerbated them. Glad you are paying attention now.

Exactly.

Instead of attacking the people who are actively addressing these issues why don’t you find a way to support them.

Unless you have ulterior (political) motives.

So you are a teacher, is that why you're hyper defensive?

I’m a parent who detests irrational a-holes still attacking our schools/teachers YEARS later. It’s almost as if you don’t want to fix anything at all, just complain about it.

At least you admit your bias.

Yes, I’m biased against school-hating a-holes.

You didn't tolerate the complaining back in 2020 either. Not all of us agree that teachers and admins are beyond reproach. It's ok to hold their feet to the fire now. They were wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. To some of us this was obvious from the get-go. Now go apologize to Ron DeSantis.

+ a billion.

Plus, let's demand some accountability. Time for NYT Editorial Board to resign. All of them.

Ha ha. Some of you are really pieces of work.

Worried you will lose your job?

What?

What is your interest in trying to shut down any discussion about where things went wrong? You are awfully defensive and paranoid that we might have to admit mistakes were made. Why is that?

My kids go to Catholic school, so they were back in person school in fall 2020.

Some of you are kind of crazy.

Mine too, but I had to move from a batshit crazy place to get that. Had we stayed put the kids would have been out until late spring 2021. That's messed up. There was no reason for that whatsoever. There were some terrible decisions and we should hold people accountable for that. Why not?

And you think you get to command the NYT editorial board to resign? Move on. It is 2023. The kids who were hurt the most are the ones who have crazy parents.

Why don't you just sit this conversation out if you aren't interested? What harm is it to you if people want to learn where we went wrong and how do to better in the future?

Let it go. Let it go. Some of you have lost your minds. Go for a walk or something.

You are obsessed with shutting this down. What are you so worried about? Go for a walk yourself if this doesn't interest you.

I realize that posting on a message board that the NYT editorial board must resign is crazy. And ineffective. Go run for your school board if you want to make decisions. Instead of posting nonsense here.

It's amusing how much this bothers you. Must be hitting close to home.

Everyone should be concerned with the nutters running around in 2023 trying to blame people for handling the pandemic in a reasonable, rational way. I’m sorry that the pandemic was hard for you but you’re misdirecting your anger.

The important thing now is addressing educational gaps. Focus on that.

(And glad you finally care about some of the many educational challenges that have existed for a long time and were magnified by the pandemic.)

How do you suggest we do that without admitting that there are problems? Why did the closures set kids back? What do you propose we do right now to address the problems in our public schools?

Have you ever been in a school? These problems existed before the pandemic. The pandemic just exacerbated them. Glad you are paying attention now.

Exactly.

Instead of attacking the people who are actively addressing these issues why don’t you find a way to support them.

Unless you have ulterior (political) motives.

So you are a teacher, is that why you're hyper defensive?

I’m a parent who detests irrational a-holes still attacking our schools/teachers YEARS later. It’s almost as if you don’t want to fix anything at all, just complain about it.

At least you admit your bias.

Yes, I’m biased against school-hating a-holes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing the schools at the start of the pandemic, when no one really understood what we were dealing with, was pragmatic. Keeping the schools closed once the evidence showed that children by and large were not suffering significant adverse effects from Covid was insane. They should have been back (in person) for the start of the 2020-21 school year, especially the elementary aged kids for whom there was less risk of illness as well as it being far more important for them to be in school in person.

The evidence was not there at the end of the summer 2020. One study of a childcare facility?

It was crystal clear by the summer of 2020 that the people becoming severely ill and/or dying from Covid were the elderly and those with compromised immune systems or underlying heart or respiratory issues. There was zero evidence of young children suffering adverse effects (and obviously we are talking statistically significant- there are always outliers).

No, it wasn’t “crystal clear”. Because kids weren’t back in schools at that point. Obviously vaccines weren’t available. And rapid testing wasn’t accessible until that fall. We were in much different place in August 2020.

You are arguing that it wasn’t clear because kids weren’t in school as a retort to kids should have been in school because it was clear? What?!

It was clear. Decisions were made for the benefit of the adults, children be damned.

Before the start of school in Aug/Sep 2020 there was very little “evidence” about the effects on children. Even anecdotally because very few schools were in person in spring 2020.

You seem to believe that children cease to exist during the summer.

Certainly most weren’t in a group of 25+ other kids in a small, poorly-ventilated space for 6+ hours/day, including meals.

And the reason that schools couldn't simply open the windows in September and October or instal better ventilation systems with the billions of dollars distributed since the spring of 2020 is because.........

Not all schools have operable windows or upgraded ventilation systems. And we still didn’t have much evidence that early in the school year. We just saw schools/classes with frequent closings due to outbreaks.