Anonymous
11/16/2023 09:51
Subject: Re:31% of millionaires think they're middle class
These conversations are designed to make me angry, I don't know why I always read the comments.
I mean, really, "boo hoo I had sticker shock from the cost of flying my family of 5 to the Caribbean for Christmas, I'm basically poor"????? That must be trolling, right?
Anyway, I'm actually middle class. HHI is around 140k with two working parents. We live in a HCOL area (DC) but only had one kid to make that feasible. I think being middle class is fine and not some horrible hardship. I do stress about money but not in a "will be able to buy food?" way and for that I am grateful. We definitely go without a lot of "nice to haves" -- no housecleaners, we only do one vacation by plane a year, we don't spend much on clothes or tech, when we eat out it's less expensive places. It's fine. The best things in live really ARE free or not that expensive -- family and a good partner, having free time, getting enough sleep, a well cooked meal (becoming a good cook is a real gift to yourself), reading a great book. Yes, a month long vacation in the Maldives sounds amazing. But most of what I would enjoy about it, I could do closer to home for a lot less money. I'm missing out, but not on that much.
I think this is why millionaires feel "middle class." Because they also can't afford that month long vacation to the Maldives -- they can't get the time off. Or they are so maxed out on housing and retirement/college savings they can't afford the plane tickets or the resort. And it makes them resentful because they have so much money but they can't do those luxe things they think of rich people doing. But my feeling is that they just made the wrong choices. Move to a lower COL city like Philly or Chicago, buy a fixer upper, have no more than 2 kids, don't blow money on expensive takeout or updating your wardrobe and all your tech every year. Then take two weeks in June for the Maldives.
I'm sorry so many millionaires are stupid about money I guess? Grow up.
I mean, really, "boo hoo I had sticker shock from the cost of flying my family of 5 to the Caribbean for Christmas, I'm basically poor"????? That must be trolling, right?
Anyway, I'm actually middle class. HHI is around 140k with two working parents. We live in a HCOL area (DC) but only had one kid to make that feasible. I think being middle class is fine and not some horrible hardship. I do stress about money but not in a "will be able to buy food?" way and for that I am grateful. We definitely go without a lot of "nice to haves" -- no housecleaners, we only do one vacation by plane a year, we don't spend much on clothes or tech, when we eat out it's less expensive places. It's fine. The best things in live really ARE free or not that expensive -- family and a good partner, having free time, getting enough sleep, a well cooked meal (becoming a good cook is a real gift to yourself), reading a great book. Yes, a month long vacation in the Maldives sounds amazing. But most of what I would enjoy about it, I could do closer to home for a lot less money. I'm missing out, but not on that much.
I think this is why millionaires feel "middle class." Because they also can't afford that month long vacation to the Maldives -- they can't get the time off. Or they are so maxed out on housing and retirement/college savings they can't afford the plane tickets or the resort. And it makes them resentful because they have so much money but they can't do those luxe things they think of rich people doing. But my feeling is that they just made the wrong choices. Move to a lower COL city like Philly or Chicago, buy a fixer upper, have no more than 2 kids, don't blow money on expensive takeout or updating your wardrobe and all your tech every year. Then take two weeks in June for the Maldives.
I'm sorry so many millionaires are stupid about money I guess? Grow up.
Anonymous
11/16/2023 09:35
Subject: Re:31% of millionaires think they're middle class
Anonymous wrote:It's because of inflation, especially in college and housing.
We have a high HHI and about 5 million in investments. Plus our house, which we own. We don't put that in net worth because you have to live somewhere and if we moved, it would probably be to somewhere bigger/more expensive. This all sounds good and it is right? We're mid 40s so we still have more time to build savings. However, about 1 million of that money is earmarked for our 3 kids' college educations and we intend to spend every penny and then some. If they go to grad school, we'll have to pull from other savings.
Then there's our house. It's a nice house and it is worth a lot of money but it would have been considered firmly "middle class" back when we were growing up. It's 4 bedrooms and less than 3k sqft. Our kids go to public school in a "good" school district and we live in a lovely neighborhood.
When it comes to more frivolous spending, we spend money on our kids' activities and vacations. They each do private lessons for their chosen activity (tennis, skiing, gymnastics). We go skiing once or twice a year, we always take one trip to the Caribbean over spring break, one bigger "splurge" trip to Europe in June or July, and one trip to the OBX in August.
I'm not complaining about our lifestyle AT ALL. It just blows my mind because I know how much money we make and I would have considered it "a lot" back when I was growing up. It's just that wages haven't kept pace with inflation. I just checked flights to see what it would cost to fly to St. Martin from NYC in February and it was 8k for 5 people!!!
Basically what I'm saying is, it's crazy that it takes > 500k to live a lifestyle that would have been "upper middle class" in the 80s and 90s with 3 kids.
Yearly trips abroad wasn’t an UMC lifestyle, even in the 90s.
Anonymous
11/16/2023 09:19
Subject: Re:31% of millionaires think they're middle class
Wealthier people tend to live in more expensive areas.
Anonymous
11/16/2023 09:18
Subject: 31% of millionaires think they're middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:These questions are so fact-specific. We earn a lot of money but my spouse insists on providing for extended family members, so we never feel rich, even though most of you would balk at that because our income is so high.
The ability to provide for extended family members is the purview of the rich.
Lol. Love this and it’s so true. “I can’t have everything I want! Therefore I am middle class.”
This. People think rich is a feeling, and they don't feel rich because they don't have unlimited money, and it's so stupid.
Anonymous
11/16/2023 09:15
Subject: Re:31% of millionaires think they're middle class
Anonymous wrote:It's because of inflation, especially in college and housing.
We have a high HHI and about 5 million in investments. Plus our house, which we own. We don't put that in net worth because you have to live somewhere and if we moved, it would probably be to somewhere bigger/more expensive. This all sounds good and it is right? We're mid 40s so we still have more time to build savings. However, about 1 million of that money is earmarked for our 3 kids' college educations and we intend to spend every penny and then some. If they go to grad school, we'll have to pull from other savings.
Then there's our house. It's a nice house and it is worth a lot of money but it would have been considered firmly "middle class" back when we were growing up. It's 4 bedrooms and less than 3k sqft. Our kids go to public school in a "good" school district and we live in a lovely neighborhood.
When it comes to more frivolous spending, we spend money on our kids' activities and vacations. They each do private lessons for their chosen activity (tennis, skiing, gymnastics). We go skiing once or twice a year, we always take one trip to the Caribbean over spring break, one bigger "splurge" trip to Europe in June or July, and one trip to the OBX in August.
I'm not complaining about our lifestyle AT ALL. It just blows my mind because I know how much money we make and I would have considered it "a lot" back when I was growing up. It's just that wages haven't kept pace with inflation. I just checked flights to see what it would cost to fly to St. Martin from NYC in February and it was 8k for 5 people!!!
Basically what I'm saying is, it's crazy that it takes > 500k to live a lifestyle that would have been "upper middle class" in the 80s and 90s with 3 kids.
This is not MC. Never has been. Never will be. You all have grossly overestimated middle class lifestyle and this is what people in the Midwest are referring to when they refer to Elites. This honestly sounds like a SNL skit.
Like Cheryl! we can only go to Europe once this year. Its a travesty.
Anonymous
11/16/2023 08:36
Subject: 31% of millionaires think they're middle class
Anonymous wrote:See, it isn't only on DCUM.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/10/survey-31percent-of-millionaires-say-they-are-part-of-the-middle-class.html
A recent Ameriprise survey found that about 60% of milllionaires consider themselves "middle class." A quarter of households making $175k called themselves "very poor," "poor," or "getting by but things are tight." An Edelman Financial survey found that Americans said they'd need to earn $233,000 on average to feel financially secure and $483,000 to feel rich.
What about you?
1. What's your HHI and what do you consider yourself?
2. Do you feel poor, comfortable or rich? Why?
3. What level would you need to achieve to feel "rich?"
1) HHI is $244k gross, probably will increase by 5-10k when I get my pay adjustment (I am the lower earner by a mile). We are in a purportedly MCOL area but I don’t find things like fuel, utilities, groceries or anything to be any less expensive than in large cities
2) I feel generally comfortable but we’ve gotten into a lot of CC debt this year - embarrassing but true! We have become much more disciplined with our spending and are prioritizing paying off debt and investing in savings.
3) I think an HHI of $400k and above would make me feel rich. My DH is pretty much capped out at his salary, but I have a lot of earning potential I am working to realize within the next five years. That should bring us to that level, or higher.
Anonymous
11/16/2023 08:29
Subject: Re:31% of millionaires think they're middle class
It's because of inflation, especially in college and housing.
We have a high HHI and about 5 million in investments. Plus our house, which we own. We don't put that in net worth because you have to live somewhere and if we moved, it would probably be to somewhere bigger/more expensive. This all sounds good and it is right? We're mid 40s so we still have more time to build savings. However, about 1 million of that money is earmarked for our 3 kids' college educations and we intend to spend every penny and then some. If they go to grad school, we'll have to pull from other savings.
Then there's our house. It's a nice house and it is worth a lot of money but it would have been considered firmly "middle class" back when we were growing up. It's 4 bedrooms and less than 3k sqft. Our kids go to public school in a "good" school district and we live in a lovely neighborhood.
When it comes to more frivolous spending, we spend money on our kids' activities and vacations. They each do private lessons for their chosen activity (tennis, skiing, gymnastics). We go skiing once or twice a year, we always take one trip to the Caribbean over spring break, one bigger "splurge" trip to Europe in June or July, and one trip to the OBX in August.
I'm not complaining about our lifestyle AT ALL. It just blows my mind because I know how much money we make and I would have considered it "a lot" back when I was growing up. It's just that wages haven't kept pace with inflation. I just checked flights to see what it would cost to fly to St. Martin from NYC in February and it was 8k for 5 people!!!
Basically what I'm saying is, it's crazy that it takes > 500k to live a lifestyle that would have been "upper middle class" in the 80s and 90s with 3 kids.
We have a high HHI and about 5 million in investments. Plus our house, which we own. We don't put that in net worth because you have to live somewhere and if we moved, it would probably be to somewhere bigger/more expensive. This all sounds good and it is right? We're mid 40s so we still have more time to build savings. However, about 1 million of that money is earmarked for our 3 kids' college educations and we intend to spend every penny and then some. If they go to grad school, we'll have to pull from other savings.
Then there's our house. It's a nice house and it is worth a lot of money but it would have been considered firmly "middle class" back when we were growing up. It's 4 bedrooms and less than 3k sqft. Our kids go to public school in a "good" school district and we live in a lovely neighborhood.
When it comes to more frivolous spending, we spend money on our kids' activities and vacations. They each do private lessons for their chosen activity (tennis, skiing, gymnastics). We go skiing once or twice a year, we always take one trip to the Caribbean over spring break, one bigger "splurge" trip to Europe in June or July, and one trip to the OBX in August.
I'm not complaining about our lifestyle AT ALL. It just blows my mind because I know how much money we make and I would have considered it "a lot" back when I was growing up. It's just that wages haven't kept pace with inflation. I just checked flights to see what it would cost to fly to St. Martin from NYC in February and it was 8k for 5 people!!!
Basically what I'm saying is, it's crazy that it takes > 500k to live a lifestyle that would have been "upper middle class" in the 80s and 90s with 3 kids.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 22:09
Subject: 31% of millionaires think they're middle class
We make enough money that we can't really spend more than we have. I recently scratched my head at our monthly credit card bill. We spent $22k, which was higher than normal but basically was the result of some high bills and then indulges (eg, we spent about 4k on fancy wine for the holidays). I was annoyed that we had a month of dumb spending that didn't move us forward financially. But it doesn't actually affect us negatively; we just paid the bill and committed to be more prudent.
I recognize that we are, by income, rich. I don't really consider us upper class or upper middle class because those classes come with a certain aesthetic and value system that we don't really adhere to. I'm not really political progressive, for example, and I'm not concerned about my kids getting into the schools favored by the UMC. I will enjoy things that you're not allowed to if you're UMC. For example, I've been on a Carnival Cruise and found it fun and delightfully corny. And while many people refuse to eat at a chain restaurant, I enjoy them (I rarely go to them, tbh, but if you asked my opinion of Texas Roadhouse or the Cheesecake Factory, for example, it wouldn't pass the UMC test.) So I don't find it at all ironic that millionaires don't see themselves as UMC, because I (millionaire) agree with that, since my sort of general life outlook is considered downwardly mobile by that set.
I recognize that we are, by income, rich. I don't really consider us upper class or upper middle class because those classes come with a certain aesthetic and value system that we don't really adhere to. I'm not really political progressive, for example, and I'm not concerned about my kids getting into the schools favored by the UMC. I will enjoy things that you're not allowed to if you're UMC. For example, I've been on a Carnival Cruise and found it fun and delightfully corny. And while many people refuse to eat at a chain restaurant, I enjoy them (I rarely go to them, tbh, but if you asked my opinion of Texas Roadhouse or the Cheesecake Factory, for example, it wouldn't pass the UMC test.) So I don't find it at all ironic that millionaires don't see themselves as UMC, because I (millionaire) agree with that, since my sort of general life outlook is considered downwardly mobile by that set.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 21:52
Subject: Re:31% of millionaires think they're middle class
Anonymous wrote:Millionaires ARE muddle class- they’re not poor, and they’re not phenomenally rich either. Up until the 1950s “middle class” meant something very different from “median income”. For most of human history, there were the aristocrats, the poor who worked the land, and a very small educated or tradesman class in the middle.
It’s the “middle class” that doesn’t realize they are actually poor or working class. If you can’t afford property, healthcare, education of some sort, and to not work for some period of your life, you’re not middle class, you’re working class. The fact that you have TVs, cars, and cheap food you bought on credit means nothing, really.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 17:23
Subject: Re:31% of millionaires think they're middle class
Forget any arbitrary income thresholds for what is statistically considered MC, given that prices are so ridiculously high in the DMV. IN most minds, middle class generally means being able to buy a house in a decent neighborhood, one or two used cars, and some way to pay for in-state college. If in the DMV it takes $200 or $300k to buy that basic lifestyle, well then that's what's considered middle class here. Everyone else is working poor even if they don't realize it because they got the latest iPhone and flashy TVs on credit.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 16:05
Subject: 31% of millionaires think they're middle class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Income vs assets are different things. I feel very poor as have a negative income. My bills are more than my paycheck.
hope that works out for you.
My bills are higher than paycheck but all fixed bills. I do have five million in assets. I used to have a bigger job.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 11:42
Subject: 31% of millionaires think they're middle class
Anonymous wrote:Income vs assets are different things. I feel very poor as have a negative income. My bills are more than my paycheck.
hope that works out for you.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 11:41
Subject: 31% of millionaires think they're middle class
Anonymous wrote:Income vs assets are different things. I feel very poor as have a negative income. My bills are more than my paycheck.
Do you have assets?
Anonymous
11/15/2023 11:40
Subject: 31% of millionaires think they're middle class
Income vs assets are different things. I feel very poor as have a negative income. My bills are more than my paycheck.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 09:47
Subject: 31% of millionaires think they're middle class
Anonymous wrote:True middle class cannot afford full college, full retirement and own a nice home. You all are upper middle class or rich.
This. I grew up true middle class- we were never wanting for shelter or food, but my parents weren't really able to set anything aside for college and their retirement savings is not sufficient. We rarely went out to dinner, pizza delivery was once a month and determined by who had the best coupons. We were each allowed to do ONE extracurricular that required money. Like literally one 1-hr dance class. Vacations were mainly camping or to visit family.
We make around $230k combined and sure, this area is expensive so it feels like not much is left once we pay the mortgage, save for college, retirement, and pay for childcare. But the point is we can do all these things! We don't sweat every little purchase or eating out, our kids are still young but if one wants to do a travel sport one day we can let them.