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Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

A mark that almost nobody knows about or cares about except you and a handful of friends/family is not an achievement.

It's just a selfish indulgent act. Nobody wants you to have kids except yourself.

Actually having kids is kind of selfish and indulgent, yes.

But once you have them, the choice to actually dedicate yourself to raising them, giving them a good start to life, and guiding them into adulthood as good people is the opposite of selfish or indulgent. Not all parents do this, but those that do are engaged in truly meaningful work and it is an achievement.

The vast majority of people never do professional work that anyone really cares about beyond their immediate circle. Hard truth. This is why parenting presents a lot of people with the opportunity to finally do something really lasting and meaningful.

It's not selfless if you do it for your own pleasure, or if you want to brag about them or say... look at my great kids. Look at me...I'm a great parents. When in actuality you may have just gotten lucky.

Wow congrats your kids are not ax murderers.

You and I agree, that most people do not achieve much in their years on this earth.. that is one thing you and I can agree on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennial men expect their millennial wives to have solid careers and to keep working after kids, without skipping a beat. The women are saying no thanks to that particular type of parenthood, because they know their husbands aren't going to take on 50% of domestic labor and childcare. And also because, outside of the DCUM bubble, most women aren't all that career-driven, especially after kids. They just aren't. If SAHM was a realistic option for more millennial women, we'd see more of them saying yes to parenthood.

So are millennial men resorting back to 1950s men? I'm young Gen X (late 40s) and the men I know are really, really involved fathers.

No, because they also don’t even want to provide.

Emo men grew up. What did you expect

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

A mark that almost nobody knows about or cares about except you and a handful of friends/family is not an achievement.

It's just a selfish indulgent act. Nobody wants you to have kids except yourself.

You don’t make any sense. If no one has kids, there’ll be no one to make all the “real” achievements that apparently really matter. Achievements are human endeavors.

So your saying if your child achieves something you are taking the credit because you birthed them.

The idea that you birthed a child is an achievement is silly and it really cheapens real accomplishments.

Most people aren’t making “real accomplishments.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

A mark that almost nobody knows about or cares about except you and a handful of friends/family is not an achievement.

It's just a selfish indulgent act. Nobody wants you to have kids except yourself.

You don’t make any sense. If no one has kids, there’ll be no one to make all the “real” achievements that apparently really matter. Achievements are human endeavors.

So your saying if your child achieves something you are taking the credit because you birthed them.

The idea that you birthed a child is an achievement is silly and it really cheapens real accomplishments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

+1 and I'm a working mom. Even my work is probably more meaningful as a means of providing for my kids, or to show them the value of hard work and perseverance, than in terms of the actual impact my work has on the world at large. Most jobs just really are not that meaningful. If you have a very meaningful job, more power to you, but most people I know (men and women) feel the same.

Even my friends without kids would not tell you their jobs are true achievements. Some have really invested a lot of themselves in volunteer work, some are just very invested in their friendships and other relationships (including their friends' kids). I have a couple who are clearly very depressed because they have hit middle age and realized their jobs aren't that meaningful (even in careers where you'd think there was more built-in meaning, like medicine, teaching, and diplomacy) and are struggling with never having kids and not really knowing where to go from there. I think it's tough. They'll figure it out and find some way to build meaning in, but having kids sure is an easy shortcut to that kind of fulfillment.

This is true of my female friends, but less true of a few men I know who have remained childless into middle age. Women in most cultures are more conditioned than men to derive meaning and purpose from having children, which is important because women typically make the most sacrifices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

A mark that almost nobody knows about or cares about except you and a handful of friends/family is not an achievement.

It's just a selfish indulgent act. Nobody wants you to have kids except yourself.

Actually having kids is kind of selfish and indulgent, yes.

But once you have them, the choice to actually dedicate yourself to raising them, giving them a good start to life, and guiding them into adulthood as good people is the opposite of selfish or indulgent. Not all parents do this, but those that do are engaged in truly meaningful work and it is an achievement.

The vast majority of people never do professional work that anyone really cares about beyond their immediate circle. Hard truth. This is why parenting presents a lot of people with the opportunity to finally do something really lasting and meaningful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennial men expect their millennial wives to have solid careers and to keep working after kids, without skipping a beat. The women are saying no thanks to that particular type of parenthood, because they know their husbands aren't going to take on 50% of domestic labor and childcare. And also because, outside of the DCUM bubble, most women aren't all that career-driven, especially after kids. They just aren't. If SAHM was a realistic option for more millennial women, we'd see more of them saying yes to parenthood.

So are millennial men resorting back to 1950s men? I'm young Gen X (late 40s) and the men I know are really, really involved fathers.

No, because they also don’t even want to provide.

I honestly do think this is part of it for both men and women. It’s not necessarily a bad thing but people want their low-demand, relatively easy and uncomplicated lives. Renting so you don’t have to keep up a home, a regular office job (preferably with max telecommuting) so you have plenty of time for hobbies, and no expensive kids to mess it up. We have so many options for entertainment these days, people don’t want to sacrifice their free time for kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

+1 and I'm a working mom. Even my work is probably more meaningful as a means of providing for my kids, or to show them the value of hard work and perseverance, than in terms of the actual impact my work has on the world at large. Most jobs just really are not that meaningful. If you have a very meaningful job, more power to you, but most people I know (men and women) feel the same.

Even my friends without kids would not tell you their jobs are true achievements. Some have really invested a lot of themselves in volunteer work, some are just very invested in their friendships and other relationships (including their friends' kids). I have a couple who are clearly very depressed because they have hit middle age and realized their jobs aren't that meaningful (even in careers where you'd think there was more built-in meaning, like medicine, teaching, and diplomacy) and are struggling with never having kids and not really knowing where to go from there. I think it's tough. They'll figure it out and find some way to build meaning in, but having kids sure is an easy shortcut to that kind of fulfillment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

A mark that almost nobody knows about or cares about except you and a handful of friends/family is not an achievement.

It's just a selfish indulgent act. Nobody wants you to have kids except yourself.

You don’t make any sense. If no one has kids, there’ll be no one to make all the “real” achievements that apparently really matter. Achievements are human endeavors.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

A mark that almost nobody knows about or cares about except you and a handful of friends/family is not an achievement.

It's just a selfish indulgent act. Nobody wants you to have kids except yourself.

Go away troll.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

A mark that almost nobody knows about or cares about except you and a handful of friends/family is not an achievement.

It's just a selfish indulgent act. Nobody wants you to have kids except yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennial men expect their millennial wives to have solid careers and to keep working after kids, without skipping a beat. The women are saying no thanks to that particular type of parenthood, because they know their husbands aren't going to take on 50% of domestic labor and childcare. And also because, outside of the DCUM bubble, most women aren't all that career-driven, especially after kids. They just aren't. If SAHM was a realistic option for more millennial women, we'd see more of them saying yes to parenthood.

So are millennial men resorting back to 1950s men? I'm young Gen X (late 40s) and the men I know are really, really involved fathers.

My DH is much more involved than my dad was (or than his dad was) but that's an extremely low bar.

One thing about my DH that drives me crazy and that seems to be an issue with other millennial men as well is that he has a real unwillingness to figure something out. 99% of what I know about parenting I've just figured out by trying stuff and experimenting, looking stuff up online for ideas, consulting experts when necessary, and just kind of treating it like a job with little to know training.

My DH wants to be told exactly how to do stuff and if you can't give him clear instructions, he gets overwhelmed and won't do it. So that includes lots of logistical tangles, like signing kids up for summer camp when summer is still months away and we don't know our exact schedule yet and we have budget constraints. But it also applies to for to the finesse aspects of parenting where you have to deal with a kid who doesn't want to do something or is trying to get you to agree to something that you absolutely cannot say yes to. In both these situations, my DH will just kind of throw up his hands and walk away, instead of just hanging in there until he figures it out.

The result of this is that the gap between our parenting ability has grown over the years because I hang in there and he doesn't. So I've gotten better and better at the logistical stuff, or dealing with other parents or the school, because I just suck it up and do it and don't bail. And I've also developed more strategies for dealing with the day-to-day parenting stuff, and I get less frustrated or angry at my kids even when they are being objectively really difficult, because I've seen it all before and have learned not to take it personally and just get in there and problem solve.

I think some of it is personality but I see it in enough millennial couples that I also think there's a fundamental difference between millennial men and women in terms of having some basic skill sets to just figure things out when you don't know for sure what to do. I've also noticed similar parallels with careers and finances, with millennial women having a bit more "can do" spirit and men being a bit more easily flustered or just giving up. And I think this might reflect different parenting styles for boys and girls, with girls being told "you can do anything!" and boys being told "here let me do that for you" or "no, don't do that, it's for girls." I think it made a lot of millennial boys kind of incompetent as adults.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennial men expect their millennial wives to have solid careers and to keep working after kids, without skipping a beat. The women are saying no thanks to that particular type of parenthood, because they know their husbands aren't going to take on 50% of domestic labor and childcare. And also because, outside of the DCUM bubble, most women aren't all that career-driven, especially after kids. They just aren't. If SAHM was a realistic option for more millennial women, we'd see more of them saying yes to parenthood.

So are millennial men resorting back to 1950s men? I'm young Gen X (late 40s) and the men I know are really, really involved fathers.

No, because they also don’t even want to provide.