Anonymous wrote:Apparently they aren't willing to learn anything from foreign women. There are over 10 pages of mostly excuses explaining why American women are the way that they are. Not surprised.

Anonymous wrote:Most European women have socialized health care, access to birth control, and access to many more benefits if they become unemployed or divorced.

They can be a lot more carefree and "feminine" because most don't have to worry about whether they (or their family) will starve or how they (or their family) will get medical treatment if they become unemployed.

You can be a lot more relaxed. Most European women (and men) I know have emigrated back to their home country with their American spouse and family.

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Anonymous wrote:Don’t expect you man to be a woman. Don’t expect him to see, understand or emotionally support you.

So what do foreign women see a man is good for? If they aren't to emotionally support you or understand you in any way?

$ and green card

Then why do so many Japanese and Korean women desire American boyfriends and husbands? Japan and South Korea are both rich and beautiful countries.

I don't know that they do still - but to the extent they do, it's probably because there's been a large military presence in both countries for a century in one case, and 70 years in the other. And just like anywhere else, the women with few economic opportunities at home have seen their American boyfriends/husbands as a ticket to a better life. A "rich country" doesn't mean that every person in that country is doing well. Look, just for example, at the US. Do you think there are possibly some women in the US who use marriage as a way to enhance their economic status? Mine certainly improved when I got married!

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Anonymous wrote:My parents are from a Middle Eastern culture and I think there is so much pressure on women in that culture to conform to the following standard:

- educated with a high paying career
- keep up their looks, don’t get fat, dress pretty and wear makeup and have long glossy black hair
- maintain an attractive, clean home and know how to cook, or you will look bad
- religious (but you still have to look sexy) and raising children to behave appropriately and follow cultural expectations

The men have the following expectations:
- have a job

I think American men may find this nightmare sort of awesome.

Uh, no. In patriarchal cultures, men have to be rich to have social value. (Actually, this is true in all cultures to varying degrees.)

She meant having a job is the only expectation for men while women have to be perfect in almost every way.

So an American man with a decent job who is even remotely helpful in other ways is a step up from their own men. This is true about a lot of foreign cultures as you can see from this thread.

So while American men could be better, they are better than most. So it makes sense for them to look abroad for women who will compare them to their local men.

Actually, the Middle East is still one of the few remaining places on Earth where women can choose to remain homemakers without losing any social standing. I am married to an Arab and no, women are not all expected to have a high-paying career. In fact, it is assumed that once you marry, your family becomes your priority. Financial support is the duty of the husband, not the wife.

Also, if you are from a religious family, you are not expected to dress sexy at all. In fact, the window of acceptable dressing for you is quite narrow.

So I think you're describing a very small subset of the Middle East culture.

To add to this, I found the Middle East to be one of the few places where it is assumed that a woman who works will have household help. Our Arab relatives would find it quite wild that a woman can be expected to work AND cook and clean. Quite simply, if the wife works and brings in income, she will outsource most of the household work. Someone will come to cook, clean and tend to the children.

You realize that's because of robust immigration, which allows poor women from other countries - the Philippines, Bangladesh, China - to come and be your servant! I used to live on a Pacific island where even the poorest families had house cleaners and cooks - and it's because, again, of essentially open borders that allowed for desperate to come and take those jobs. There was tons of abuse - and much cleaner houses. We could have that here, too, if we wanted.

+1.

These wives transfer the abuse they receive from their lazy husbands to slave laborers.

I don't think we should be emulating any countries that have slave laborers or a lot of low paid people working in homes. IF there is a country without practically slave labor with feminine women who are also respected by their husbands I'm all ears to those lessons.

Isn't the mormon community in SLC like this?

Ha this is kind of true. I am the loud and opinionated PP and I was raised Mormon, and not all Mormon men want a feminine women who is content to SAH and support his career. But many do, and the majority that I know still respect their wives. It might be because men who were raised Mormon have been getting lessons almost their entire lives on how to be a good spouse. Be responsible, be a good earner, take your wife on dates, don't say anything unkind to your spouse, listen to her (even though the guy's opinion eventually rules, so whatever), etc. There are lots of bad Mormon men but truly good Mormon men actually are good husbands while still taking part in a patriarchal oppressive system.

So I guess the lesson is men should take several courses in how to be good husbands?

Feminine does not mean subservient SAH. French and Italian women are direct and feisty and also feminine and sensual. I think a lot of American women do what they think they are supposed to do, are more rigid.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My parents are from a Middle Eastern culture and I think there is so much pressure on women in that culture to conform to the following standard:

- educated with a high paying career
- keep up their looks, don’t get fat, dress pretty and wear makeup and have long glossy black hair
- maintain an attractive, clean home and know how to cook, or you will look bad
- religious (but you still have to look sexy) and raising children to behave appropriately and follow cultural expectations

The men have the following expectations:
- have a job

I think American men may find this nightmare sort of awesome.

Uh, no. In patriarchal cultures, men have to be rich to have social value. (Actually, this is true in all cultures to varying degrees.)

She meant having a job is the only expectation for men while women have to be perfect in almost every way.

So an American man with a decent job who is even remotely helpful in other ways is a step up from their own men. This is true about a lot of foreign cultures as you can see from this thread.

So while American men could be better, they are better than most. So it makes sense for them to look abroad for women who will compare them to their local men.

Actually, the Middle East is still one of the few remaining places on Earth where women can choose to remain homemakers without losing any social standing. I am married to an Arab and no, women are not all expected to have a high-paying career. In fact, it is assumed that once you marry, your family becomes your priority. Financial support is the duty of the husband, not the wife.

Also, if you are from a religious family, you are not expected to dress sexy at all. In fact, the window of acceptable dressing for you is quite narrow.

So I think you're describing a very small subset of the Middle East culture.

To add to this, I found the Middle East to be one of the few places where it is assumed that a woman who works will have household help. Our Arab relatives would find it quite wild that a woman can be expected to work AND cook and clean. Quite simply, if the wife works and brings in income, she will outsource most of the household work. Someone will come to cook, clean and tend to the children.

You realize that's because of robust immigration, which allows poor women from other countries - the Philippines, Bangladesh, China - to come and be your servant! I used to live on a Pacific island where even the poorest families had house cleaners and cooks - and it's because, again, of essentially open borders that allowed for desperate to come and take those jobs. There was tons of abuse - and much cleaner houses. We could have that here, too, if we wanted.

+1.

These wives transfer the abuse they receive from their lazy husbands to slave laborers.

I don't think we should be emulating any countries that have slave laborers or a lot of low paid people working in homes. IF there is a country without practically slave labor with feminine women who are also respected by their husbands I'm all ears to those lessons.

Isn't the mormon community in SLC like this?

Ha this is kind of true. I am the loud and opinionated PP and I was raised Mormon, and not all Mormon men want a feminine women who is content to SAH and support his career. But many do, and the majority that I know still respect their wives. It might be because men who were raised Mormon have been getting lessons almost their entire lives on how to be a good spouse. Be responsible, be a good earner, take your wife on dates, don't say anything unkind to your spouse, listen to her (even though the guy's opinion eventually rules, so whatever), etc. There are lots of bad Mormon men but truly good Mormon men actually are good husbands while still taking part in a patriarchal oppressive system.

So I guess the lesson is men should take several courses in how to be good husbands?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t expect you man to be a woman. Don’t expect him to see, understand or emotionally support you.

So what do foreign women see a man is good for? If they aren't to emotionally support you or understand you in any way?

$ and green card

Then why do so many Japanese and Korean women desire American boyfriends and husbands? Japan and South Korea are both rich and beautiful countries.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents are from a Middle Eastern culture and I think there is so much pressure on women in that culture to conform to the following standard:

- educated with a high paying career
- keep up their looks, don’t get fat, dress pretty and wear makeup and have long glossy black hair
- maintain an attractive, clean home and know how to cook, or you will look bad
- religious (but you still have to look sexy) and raising children to behave appropriately and follow cultural expectations

The men have the following expectations:
- have a job

I think American men may find this nightmare sort of awesome.

Uh, no. In patriarchal cultures, men have to be rich to have social value. (Actually, this is true in all cultures to varying degrees.)

She meant having a job is the only expectation for men while women have to be perfect in almost every way.

So an American man with a decent job who is even remotely helpful in other ways is a step up from their own men. This is true about a lot of foreign cultures as you can see from this thread.

So while American men could be better, they are better than most. So it makes sense for them to look abroad for women who will compare them to their local men.

Actually, the Middle East is still one of the few remaining places on Earth where women can choose to remain homemakers without losing any social standing. I am married to an Arab and no, women are not all expected to have a high-paying career. In fact, it is assumed that once you marry, your family becomes your priority. Financial support is the duty of the husband, not the wife.

Also, if you are from a religious family, you are not expected to dress sexy at all. In fact, the window of acceptable dressing for you is quite narrow.

So I think you're describing a very small subset of the Middle East culture.

To add to this, I found the Middle East to be one of the few places where it is assumed that a woman who works will have household help. Our Arab relatives would find it quite wild that a woman can be expected to work AND cook and clean. Quite simply, if the wife works and brings in income, she will outsource most of the household work. Someone will come to cook, clean and tend to the children.

You realize that's because of robust immigration, which allows poor women from other countries - the Philippines, Bangladesh, China - to come and be your servant! I used to live on a Pacific island where even the poorest families had house cleaners and cooks - and it's because, again, of essentially open borders that allowed for desperate to come and take those jobs. There was tons of abuse - and much cleaner houses. We could have that here, too, if we wanted.

+1.

These wives transfer the abuse they receive from their lazy husbands to slave laborers.

I don't think we should be emulating any countries that have slave laborers or a lot of low paid people working in homes. IF there is a country without practically slave labor with feminine women who are also respected by their husbands I'm all ears to those lessons.

Isn't the mormon community in SLC like this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t expect you man to be a woman. Don’t expect him to see, understand or emotionally support you.

So what do foreign women see a man is good for? If they aren't to emotionally support you or understand you in any way?

$ and green card

Then why do so many Japanese and Korean women desire American boyfriends and husbands? Japan and South Korea are both rich and beautiful countries.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Foreign born woman here. American women are miles ahead in most aspects.

Only thing i can think of is being more feminine and focusing more on their appearance.

Foreign-born here as well. In what way? I don't think of myself as ahead or better than American women but I don't see how American women are "miles ahead" either.

On average: better educated, more independent (moving for college and jobs), more open minded including about who they date and marry, more financially independent etc.