Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking back and knowing what I know now I wish we would have gone for ATS instead of immersion. At the time, I thought dual language was important and now we are LITERALLY paying for it because of the cost of tutors. And even though DC qualified for summer school it was a joke this year.

Did you not know that tutors were a normal cost of life for Immersion...at least the non-native side? Families have found that out for years because it is harder to learn basics in two languages. Also if you don't converse at home, you hire someone or send to camps to keep fluency over summer and such. Looking for a maid who would speak Spanish to children was a common refrain in NArl a decade ago. Isn't there always a big dropoff at 2nd grade in Immersion when non-native families throw n the towel? All of that predates today by generations. It's just how it is. If you now know fluency isn't going to happen or your kid would struggle, I'm not surprised you wished you went to ATS, but that was your decision under known conditions.

DP. Paying for tutors is definitely not a known condition of immersion. We did not know that and I talked to parents and attended the info sessions. No one ever suggested our kid wouldn’t learn to read or that we’d need tutors for everything

Are tutors common for elementary school in general? It seems like I know more and more families in APS having to shell out money for tutors. Hard to tell if it's just this area and overly competitive parents or if supplemental help is actually required.

We are an immersion family and HAD NO IDEA our child wouldn't learn to read or would be behind standards in math and english. We have had tutors since they were in K and it was never mentioned during any of the information sessions that we should plan to find help. The families we spoke with didn't mention anything about it either. I do not think this is the norm -- assuming families have to supplement education on their own dime.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking back and knowing what I know now I wish we would have gone for ATS instead of immersion. At the time, I thought dual language was important and now we are LITERALLY paying for it because of the cost of tutors. And even though DC qualified for summer school it was a joke this year.

Did you not know that tutors were a normal cost of life for Immersion...at least the non-native side? Families have found that out for years because it is harder to learn basics in two languages. Also if you don't converse at home, you hire someone or send to camps to keep fluency over summer and such. Looking for a maid who would speak Spanish to children was a common refrain in NArl a decade ago. Isn't there always a big dropoff at 2nd grade in Immersion when non-native families throw n the towel? All of that predates today by generations. It's just how it is. If you now know fluency isn't going to happen or your kid would struggle, I'm not surprised you wished you went to ATS, but that was your decision under known conditions.

DP. Paying for tutors is definitely not a known condition of immersion. We did not know that and I talked to parents and attended the info sessions. No one ever suggested our kid wouldn’t learn to read or that we’d need tutors for everything

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking back and knowing what I know now I wish we would have gone for ATS instead of immersion. At the time, I thought dual language was important and now we are LITERALLY paying for it because of the cost of tutors. And even though DC qualified for summer school it was a joke this year.

Did you not know that tutors were a normal cost of life for Immersion...at least the non-native side? Families have found that out for years because it is harder to learn basics in two languages. Also if you don't converse at home, you hire someone or send to camps to keep fluency over summer and such. Looking for a maid who would speak Spanish to children was a common refrain in NArl a decade ago. Isn't there always a big dropoff at 2nd grade in Immersion when non-native families throw n the towel? All of that predates today by generations. It's just how it is. If you now know fluency isn't going to happen or your kid would struggle, I'm not surprised you wished you went to ATS, but that was your decision under known conditions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking back and knowing what I know now I wish we would have gone for ATS instead of immersion. At the time, I thought dual language was important and now we are LITERALLY paying for it because of the cost of tutors. And even though DC qualified for summer school it was a joke this year.

Did you not know that tutors were a normal cost of life for Immersion...at least the non-native side? Families have found that out for years because it is harder to learn basics in two languages. Also if you don't converse at home, you hire someone or send to camps to keep fluency over summer and such. Looking for a maid who would speak Spanish to children was a common refrain in NArl a decade ago. Isn't there always a big dropoff at 2nd grade in Immersion when non-native families throw n the towel? All of that predates today by generations. It's just how it is. If you now know fluency isn't going to happen or your kid would struggle, I'm not surprised you wished you went to ATS, but that was your decision under known conditions.

Anonymous wrote:Looking back and knowing what I know now I wish we would have gone for ATS instead of immersion. At the time, I thought dual language was important and now we are LITERALLY paying for it because of the cost of tutors. And even though DC qualified for summer school it was a joke this year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi all I’m the original poster - we did take the spot at ATS and so far have received more feedback and just general info from our whole year at the neighborhood school. I can tell the teachers are super involved and also the parents in our child’s class have reached out. It has been a drastic difference in a couple short weeks. Our child is still adjusting to the early start time and becoming familiar to new ways but as of now I think we are happy solely based on the communication from ATS compared to our neighborhood school.

Glad you are having a good experience so far OP! There was a world of difference between my well regarded neighborhood school and ATS. You don’t realize how much better school can be until you have experienced a truly excellent school.

DP. What is it going to take to get APS to realize this and just make all our schools ATS-es. They don't all have to have the same strictness about tucked in shirts; but seriously - it is clearly effective academically.

This. Get rid of the fads and implement the ATS best practices in all schools.

It won't work at other schools because you won't have parent involvement, and many parents are anti homework because it interferes with sports etc.

ATS isn't just about homework and tucked in shirts. There is a lot more to the school and schools can implement ATS best practices without having kids do homework. Best practices include:

- Direct teacher led instruction as opposed to inquiry based learning. Here is an article on the importance of direct instruction when it comes to math: https://www.city-journal.org/article/californias-math-framework-is-flawed Direct instruction is a pedology that has a positive effect on learning outcomes. Inquiry based learning on the other hand has a negative correlation. APS should move away from inquiry based learning and adopt direct instruction. See also Natalie Wexler on cognitive load theory: https://theamericanscholar.org/why-so-many-kids-struggle-to-learn/

- High academic expectations. ATS expects that students have the ability to do well, no matter what their background. If a student is below grade level, the school will do everything it can to bring that student up to grade level.

- High behavioral expectations: It is difficult to learn if you have erasers and pencils thrown at you in class. Schools should focus on creating a safe learning environment that is conducive to learning. ATS does that with its focus on behavior and character

Sure. I’m all for direct instruction. Done.

High academic and behavioral expectations? How is that not already the norm? The problem is that you need parental support when a kid is failing in someway, and the 1-5 kids in every class who are the most challenged consume 20-30% of teachers time and energy and the parents don’t support them.

At ATS every parent is engaged and teachers get that support at home when problems arise. Because engaged parents jump through the lottery hoops and accept trade offs of a school not in neighborhood.

Are you saying that parents in Tuckahoe, Nottingham, Cardinal, Jamestown and Discovery are not engaged? My kid went to Tuckahoe then switched to ATS. Trust me when I say that the parents in the schools that I listed are more engaged than ATS parents. They are actually a little too engaged if you ask me.

There are different types of engagement.

So you are going to chalk 90% of ATS' success to the very specific type of parental engagement that ATS has? A specific type of engagement that is different than every other type of parental engagement? Seems like there are other reasons for ATS' success that you don't want to focus on.

I'm not one of those attributing ATS' success to parent involvement. Nevertheless, my apparently-too-subtle insinuation is that there is an overzealously engaged parent who focuses on the extras or fight to the death to defend Johnny from any blame when disciplined for something, etc.; then there are normal involved parents who attend school events, contribute to activities, engage with their child's teacher and provide the oversight and guidance for their kid tending to their homework and behaving. And then there are parents who engage on academics only, or leave academics to the school and only engage in the extras like PTA stuff/school events. And a level of engagement that is merely responsive when contacted or requested to by the school. or, or, or...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi all I’m the original poster - we did take the spot at ATS and so far have received more feedback and just general info from our whole year at the neighborhood school. I can tell the teachers are super involved and also the parents in our child’s class have reached out. It has been a drastic difference in a couple short weeks. Our child is still adjusting to the early start time and becoming familiar to new ways but as of now I think we are happy solely based on the communication from ATS compared to our neighborhood school.

Glad you are having a good experience so far OP! There was a world of difference between my well regarded neighborhood school and ATS. You don’t realize how much better school can be until you have experienced a truly excellent school.

DP. What is it going to take to get APS to realize this and just make all our schools ATS-es. They don't all have to have the same strictness about tucked in shirts; but seriously - it is clearly effective academically.

This. Get rid of the fads and implement the ATS best practices in all schools.

It won't work at other schools because you won't have parent involvement, and many parents are anti homework because it interferes with sports etc.

ATS isn't just about homework and tucked in shirts. There is a lot more to the school and schools can implement ATS best practices without having kids do homework. Best practices include:

- Direct teacher led instruction as opposed to inquiry based learning. Here is an article on the importance of direct instruction when it comes to math: https://www.city-journal.org/article/californias-math-framework-is-flawed Direct instruction is a pedology that has a positive effect on learning outcomes. Inquiry based learning on the other hand has a negative correlation. APS should move away from inquiry based learning and adopt direct instruction. See also Natalie Wexler on cognitive load theory: https://theamericanscholar.org/why-so-many-kids-struggle-to-learn/

- High academic expectations. ATS expects that students have the ability to do well, no matter what their background. If a student is below grade level, the school will do everything it can to bring that student up to grade level.

- High behavioral expectations: It is difficult to learn if you have erasers and pencils thrown at you in class. Schools should focus on creating a safe learning environment that is conducive to learning. ATS does that with its focus on behavior and character

Sure. I’m all for direct instruction. Done.

High academic and behavioral expectations? How is that not already the norm? The problem is that you need parental support when a kid is failing in someway, and the 1-5 kids in every class who are the most challenged consume 20-30% of teachers time and energy and the parents don’t support them.

At ATS every parent is engaged and teachers get that support at home when problems arise. Because engaged parents jump through the lottery hoops and accept trade offs of a school not in neighborhood.

Are you saying that parents in Tuckahoe, Nottingham, Cardinal, Jamestown and Discovery are not engaged? My kid went to Tuckahoe then switched to ATS. Trust me when I say that the parents in the schools that I listed are more engaged than ATS parents. They are actually a little too engaged if you ask me.

There are different types of engagement.

So you are going to chalk 90% of ATS' success to the very specific type of parental engagement that ATS has? A specific type of engagement that is different than every other type of parental engagement? Seems like there are other reasons for ATS' success that you don't want to focus on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi all I’m the original poster - we did take the spot at ATS and so far have received more feedback and just general info from our whole year at the neighborhood school. I can tell the teachers are super involved and also the parents in our child’s class have reached out. It has been a drastic difference in a couple short weeks. Our child is still adjusting to the early start time and becoming familiar to new ways but as of now I think we are happy solely based on the communication from ATS compared to our neighborhood school.

Glad you are having a good experience so far OP! There was a world of difference between my well regarded neighborhood school and ATS. You don’t realize how much better school can be until you have experienced a truly excellent school.

DP. What is it going to take to get APS to realize this and just make all our schools ATS-es. They don't all have to have the same strictness about tucked in shirts; but seriously - it is clearly effective academically.

This. Get rid of the fads and implement the ATS best practices in all schools.

It won't work at other schools because you won't have parent involvement, and many parents are anti homework because it interferes with sports etc.

ATS isn't just about homework and tucked in shirts. There is a lot more to the school and schools can implement ATS best practices without having kids do homework. Best practices include:

- Direct teacher led instruction as opposed to inquiry based learning. Here is an article on the importance of direct instruction when it comes to math: https://www.city-journal.org/article/californias-math-framework-is-flawed Direct instruction is a pedology that has a positive effect on learning outcomes. Inquiry based learning on the other hand has a negative correlation. APS should move away from inquiry based learning and adopt direct instruction. See also Natalie Wexler on cognitive load theory: https://theamericanscholar.org/why-so-many-kids-struggle-to-learn/

- High academic expectations. ATS expects that students have the ability to do well, no matter what their background. If a student is below grade level, the school will do everything it can to bring that student up to grade level.

- High behavioral expectations: It is difficult to learn if you have erasers and pencils thrown at you in class. Schools should focus on creating a safe learning environment that is conducive to learning. ATS does that with its focus on behavior and character

Sure. I’m all for direct instruction. Done.

High academic and behavioral expectations? How is that not already the norm? The problem is that you need parental support when a kid is failing in someway, and the 1-5 kids in every class who are the most challenged consume 20-30% of teachers time and energy and the parents don’t support them.

At ATS every parent is engaged and teachers get that support at home when problems arise. Because engaged parents jump through the lottery hoops and accept trade offs of a school not in neighborhood.

Are you saying that parents in Tuckahoe, Nottingham, Cardinal, Jamestown and Discovery are not engaged? My kid went to Tuckahoe then switched to ATS. Trust me when I say that the parents in the schools that I listed are more engaged than ATS parents. They are actually a little too engaged if you ask me.

There are different types of engagement.