My issue is the constant complaining into the void. If you are not in a position to set the policies of your workplace, then you need to follow the policies that are put in place, even if you don’t agree with them, or find a place to work that has policies you agree with. Your company is not under any obligation to get your buy-in on this. You can stay or you can go, and they will be just fine.

Anonymous wrote:Im a semi extrovert. Seeing people in person, chitchat, makes me happy. I dont put myself together if i work from home. I leave my camera off, my teeth unbrushed. It’s depressing. Why go anywhere? Just get things deliver by drones to your house. Life is starting to feel less worthwhile.

WFH definitely isn’t for every personality. But I’m the opposite. I make my bed and get dressed each morning (usually something casual b/c I have 3 kids). Even without commuting I leave the house everh day to go to the school bus stop. We also have a lot of after school activities, practices, play dates, etc. I also go to Orangetheory classes at lunchtime.

So I’m still socializing and getting out and about, except now it’s in a way I choose instead of being forced to spend 40 hours/week with my coworkers. I am still friends with a few people from work and will get together for coffee or happy hour with them on occasion. But the office was always somewhere I went to get my work done and then come home to my real life. I don’t want to be forced back just to make some extroverts happy with office chit chat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how everyone writes off the RTO folks as a bunch of old white men who are behind the times.

We know why WFH folks like it better: it’s easier for them. They’ll insist they’re more efficient, more productive, cheaper for the employer, etc - and in some cases they may be right. But that’s not what’s driving them. What’s driving them is that’s it easier. Plain and simple.

You’re gonna have trouble convincing this old white dude that it’s good for business for employees to sit at home on their computers isolated from their colleagues and their employer.

Exactly. You don’t want to work. You want to walk around bugging people. Or stand around a water cooler. Yes, most people just want to do our work on our computers.

You don’t want to work. You want to be left alone. You don’t care at all about the organization. You just want the money.

We do want to work. If I wanted money I wouldn’t be a fed. PP even said so. We just want to work at our computers. Yes, he’s right. We do just want to work at our computers.

Pretty much. At this point, we are going to lose a lot of newer staff at our agency, because they can just switch to private industry for more money and continue to work from home.

What works for me is a hybrid schedule (I can work up to two days a week from home) and a lot of flex if I have to deal with doctors appointments, house emergencies, etc.

I get a lot of work done because I rarely have to miss work unless it's for planned vacation or an illness. My office discourages us from driving in during bad weather. We're all set up at home to log in as if we were in the office.

It's so different from 10-15 years ago (I came back to work after being a SAHP)-- the flexibility has been a godsend. I don't care so much about working from home - it's been great to not have to choose between getting a mammogram and losing hours of work that I can't efficiently make up.

Let’s say you go to a bar and is empty. Go to church and only one there, go to restaurant and you are only customer. It is weird.

Kinda same at work

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, some people want to quiet quit with their lazy girl jobs from home and don’t ever want to see the inside of an office. Others have ambition, want to have real relationships with colleagues and are willing to make some effort to show up in person. We’ll see which group has progressed farther in their careers over the next few years, I know who I’m betting on.

Okay, I confess. I do NOT want to have real relationships with coworkers. I don't. Sorry if that makes me a bad person.

I understand this, I’m a mid 40s mom who doesn’t have any need for new relationships, but I also think of all of the people who trained or mentored me when I was new in my career and I understand it’s my turn to do that for the next generation. It’s much harder to do that from home.

People who don’t “need any new relationships.” So American. No wonder loneliness is an epidemic in this country with people shutting the door on each other.

You just care about your needs and it’s a social issue, not work issue. Very few actually mentor and you can do that from wfh. I would never be friends with coworkers. Friendly, yes, friends, no.

I meant society in general, not just the workplace. UMC people refuse to interact on anything more than a surface level or open their circles to anyone but their nuclear family and a few friends from college. Living in a tiny world. It is sad. But everyone is too busy, busy, busy and self-centered.

Can you see how opening up on more than a surface level can be a problem at work? People may not want to be opened up to judgment regarding culture, religion, sexuality, family life, medical issues, mental health, diet, etc.

Zoom just mandated RTO this week.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, some people want to quiet quit with their lazy girl jobs from home and don’t ever want to see the inside of an office. Others have ambition, want to have real relationships with colleagues and are willing to make some effort to show up in person. We’ll see which group has progressed farther in their careers over the next few years, I know who I’m betting on.

Okay, I confess. I do NOT want to have real relationships with coworkers. I don't. Sorry if that makes me a bad person.

I understand this, I’m a mid 40s mom who doesn’t have any need for new relationships, but I also think of all of the people who trained or mentored me when I was new in my career and I understand it’s my turn to do that for the next generation. It’s much harder to do that from home.

People who don’t “need any new relationships.” So American. No wonder loneliness is an epidemic in this country with people shutting the door on each other.

You just care about your needs and it’s a social issue, not work issue. Very few actually mentor and you can do that from wfh. I would never be friends with coworkers. Friendly, yes, friends, no.

I meant society in general, not just the workplace. UMC people refuse to interact on anything more than a surface level or open their circles to anyone but their nuclear family and a few friends from college. Living in a tiny world. It is sad. But everyone is too busy, busy, busy and self-centered.

If you have time to socialize at work - you are the one who is not working hard enough

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, some people want to quiet quit with their lazy girl jobs from home and don’t ever want to see the inside of an office. Others have ambition, want to have real relationships with colleagues and are willing to make some effort to show up in person. We’ll see which group has progressed farther in their careers over the next few years, I know who I’m betting on.

Okay, I confess. I do NOT want to have real relationships with coworkers. I don't. Sorry if that makes me a bad person.

I understand this, I’m a mid 40s mom who doesn’t have any need for new relationships, but I also think of all of the people who trained or mentored me when I was new in my career and I understand it’s my turn to do that for the next generation. It’s much harder to do that from home.

People who don’t “need any new relationships.” So American. No wonder loneliness is an epidemic in this country with people shutting the door on each other.

You just care about your needs and it’s a social issue, not work issue. Very few actually mentor and you can do that from wfh. I would never be friends with coworkers. Friendly, yes, friends, no.

I meant society in general, not just the workplace. UMC people refuse to interact on anything more than a surface level or open their circles to anyone but their nuclear family and a few friends from college. Living in a tiny world. It is sad. But everyone is too busy, busy, busy and self-centered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be real here. If you’ve ever been a supervisor you know that dealing with people complaining about unfair treatment between colleagues is tough to manage. Putting the wfh / hybrid management decisions on individual supervisors is a thankless task for them, they will never be able to get it right to everyone’s satisfaction. Higher level consistent rules (not just “guidance”) is needed. Same for any organization, not just the government.

Being a supervisor you have to balance performance with employee satisfaction and retention - including avoiding resentment over perceived or real favoritism. Some on this thread seem to think that’s easy to do.

Yes, supervisors get paid more because their job is hard. Don't take the job if you don't want to do it.

The main thing I take away from the countless complaints about "slacking" in any location is that supervisors are afraid to make direct statements about their expectations, let alone have an uncomfortable conversation with someone about performance. "Managing" is an actual job and skillset that requires thought: it isn't just the thing you automatically do when you've been working for 10 years and the old manager retires.

. I’m the poster you replied to. I agree, but l still think consistent rules (not just guidance) needs to come from the top, as supervisors need this to not be put in impossible situations regarding fairness - perceived and real.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do all of these administrative staff people do their jobs remotely? Seems like BS.

I'm not administrative staff, but that seems like the type of position most conducive to WFH.

+2

An admin is the last person who needs to be on site, unless to prepare for an in person meeting?

My admin works from home 3 days a week and I hate it. When she’s not there I end up doing her job just because it’s faster than trying to get in contact for her so I can tell her what I need her to do. I’m going to either require her to move to at least 4 days/replace her in the near future.

The problem is your management. Why do you let her be out of contact? My admin is always reachable because she knows my expectations

NP. My admin is "reachable" in the sense that I have reached her: in a session with her trainer, "working" from the beach, on the bus on the way to work (1 hour after her start time). She says as long as she has her phone, she is on the clock. Our policy is I have to let her know if I need her in the office (to do things like a copy job) 2 days ahead of time, when I often only know myself I need something 20 minutes in advance. And she acts so put out if you ask her to shift her WFH days. It is easier to do it myself.

I don't necessarily care she is remote, it's more that RTO is highlighting for me how we don't need as much admin support as we did pre pandemic. And it doesn't make sense for our firm to pay admin for 40 hours of work/week when they are delivering much less than they used to. And I agree management is to blame for this issue, too.

I'm pro WFH and this woman should be fired. It doesn't matter if she thinks she is on the clock because she has her phone. It matters what the boss says. I'm a fed and I am required to be working at my duty station which is my home. Working means logged onto my computer which will show me as away after 5 minutes. It can check my logs against my time cards.

This woman probably wasn't working much in office either. Probably your firm was paying her to sit there and be available if people needed copies or things mailed. Those types usually spend the majority of their time gossipping, drinking coffee, celebrating birthdays, and making personal calls. But they are right there in the event you do need them. It's hard to recreate that remotely. And the more you work remotely, the less hard copy paper you use. So she figures she has nothing to do, so why not go to the gym and bring her phone. But then she's not around when you actually need her, so it's all pointless.

In that situation I'd just cut it down to a smaller pool of shared admins who are there in person most of the time. I WFH and really don't need an admin. We have one shared paralegal which is plenty.

It takes me twice as long to train people who WFH. Also I set in person meetings (at offsite outdoor places as part of the job) and then they say they can’t make it because of doctors appointments that they hadn’t mentioned before, so I end up going without them. I work from home part of the time too because I go in and no one’s there so there’s no point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, some people want to quiet quit with their lazy girl jobs from home and don’t ever want to see the inside of an office. Others have ambition, want to have real relationships with colleagues and are willing to make some effort to show up in person. We’ll see which group has progressed farther in their careers over the next few years, I know who I’m betting on.

Okay, I confess. I do NOT want to have real relationships with coworkers. I don't. Sorry if that makes me a bad person.

I understand this, I’m a mid 40s mom who doesn’t have any need for new relationships, but I also think of all of the people who trained or mentored me when I was new in my career and I understand it’s my turn to do that for the next generation. It’s much harder to do that from home.

People who don’t “need any new relationships.” So American. No wonder loneliness is an epidemic in this country with people shutting the door on each other.

You just care about your needs and it’s a social issue, not work issue. Very few actually mentor and you can do that from wfh. I would never be friends with coworkers. Friendly, yes, friends, no.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how everyone writes off the RTO folks as a bunch of old white men who are behind the times.

We know why WFH folks like it better: it’s easier for them. They’ll insist they’re more efficient, more productive, cheaper for the employer, etc - and in some cases they may be right. But that’s not what’s driving them. What’s driving them is that’s it easier. Plain and simple.

You’re gonna have trouble convincing this old white dude that it’s good for business for employees to sit at home on their computers isolated from their colleagues and their employer.

Exactly. You don’t want to work. You want to walk around bugging people. Or stand around a water cooler. Yes, most people just want to do our work on our computers.

You don’t want to work. You want to be left alone. You don’t care at all about the organization. You just want the money.

We do want to work. If I wanted money I wouldn’t be a fed. PP even said so. We just want to work at our computers. Yes, he’s right. We do just want to work at our computers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how everyone writes off the RTO folks as a bunch of old white men who are behind the times.

We know why WFH folks like it better: it’s easier for them. They’ll insist they’re more efficient, more productive, cheaper for the employer, etc - and in some cases they may be right. But that’s not what’s driving them. What’s driving them is that’s it easier. Plain and simple.

You’re gonna have trouble convincing this old white dude that it’s good for business for employees to sit at home on their computers isolated from their colleagues and their employer.

Exactly. You don’t want to work. You want to walk around bugging people. Or stand around a water cooler. Yes, most people just want to do our work on our computers.

You don’t want to work. You want to be left alone. You don’t care at all about the organization. You just want the money.