Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:no our kids do not know but they know that mom goes out with friends to do things because dad is a homebody and doesn't like to go out

Open only for you or also DH?

Anonymous wrote:If you’re in an open marriage, do your kids know?

Anonymous wrote:This is not considered child abuse?

Anonymous wrote:no our kids do not know but they know that mom goes out with friends to do things because dad is a homebody and doesn't like to go out

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads have only reinforced the notion that ENM is anything but E and incredibly selfish and likely involving narcissism and mental illness

I don't know anyone engaged in ENM who didn't either decide it didn't work OR later get diagnosed with bipolar, BPD, or other major issues OR they were happy content but it caused massive problems for others (the narcissists who just want what they want and don't care how it impacts others).

When I see people advocating for ENM like it's the magical solution to everything, and especially when they start trying to argue that ENM is the more "evolved" way to approach marriage, I just roll my eyes. Someone should do a study on ENM communities to show long-term outcomes, both on marriages and on any children raised by actively ENM couples. As someone who knows many ENM couples, I feel confident any such study would show that ENM is bad for long term marital success rates and especially bad for families.

Well, marital success rates are pretty bad with or without ENM. What irritates me is people who act like ENM is some way to increase the stability of marriage (obviously not) or refuse to consider the issues with kids or uneven power differentials.

That said, I do know two couples that got together very young and seem to have done ENM successfully in their 20s as a way to keep both the relationship and ability to experiment. One couple closed the relationship when they had kids and that seemed to be successful - but one of the partners later transitioned so there was obviously a lot going on. Writing this makes them sound chaotic but truly they are some of the best people I’ve met. I don’t have great insight into their family but I believe they are giving their kids a great upbringing even if nontraditional.

The other couple kept the marriage open (even after kids) and are now crashing and burning spectacularly.

So you never can tell.

So one family spectacularly exploded

and one family (which you don’t have insight into) also spectacularly exploded

I think we can tell.

One spectacularlt exploded - the ENM is making it worse, but would have failed anyway

The other is going strong

The other “going strong”? You described a couple who is (1) no longer ENM, and (2) in which one partner has transitioned.

Just spit-balling here, but do you think there’s any chance that the choice to do ENM, and the fact that one partner ultimately decided that they needed to transition to the other gender, might be related? This is not an issue that is common to a lot of marriages, and will likely become even less so as trans awareness improves and people transition earlier in life before settling into marriages that might be unlikely to meet their needs.

So based on your observations, ENM is either a weigh station on the way to divorce, or possibly a symptom of much larger gender/sexuality issues that go well beyond the constraints of monogamy.

I’m not willing to judge all cases, no. Monogamous couples certainly don’t behave well either.

Is that OP replying above?

If so: you certainly ARE willing to "judge all cases" since you commented not far above that "monogamy cannot be maintained in marriage." That's absolutely judging all cases and saying clearly that no marriage can stay monogamous. Do you not see the hypocrisy there? Saying you won't judge "all" cases, after doing exactly that above?

OP here. I most definitely do not believe monogamy cannot be maintained in marriage. I'm just pointing out the reality is that many marriages have moments of non-monogamy, as evidenced by daily posts on this board. I'm just suggesting a better way of managing such situations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads have only reinforced the notion that ENM is anything but E and incredibly selfish and likely involving narcissism and mental illness

I don't know anyone engaged in ENM who didn't either decide it didn't work OR later get diagnosed with bipolar, BPD, or other major issues OR they were happy content but it caused massive problems for others (the narcissists who just want what they want and don't care how it impacts others).

When I see people advocating for ENM like it's the magical solution to everything, and especially when they start trying to argue that ENM is the more "evolved" way to approach marriage, I just roll my eyes. Someone should do a study on ENM communities to show long-term outcomes, both on marriages and on any children raised by actively ENM couples. As someone who knows many ENM couples, I feel confident any such study would show that ENM is bad for long term marital success rates and especially bad for families.

Well, marital success rates are pretty bad with or without ENM. What irritates me is people who act like ENM is some way to increase the stability of marriage (obviously not) or refuse to consider the issues with kids or uneven power differentials.

That said, I do know two couples that got together very young and seem to have done ENM successfully in their 20s as a way to keep both the relationship and ability to experiment. One couple closed the relationship when they had kids and that seemed to be successful - but one of the partners later transitioned so there was obviously a lot going on. Writing this makes them sound chaotic but truly they are some of the best people I’ve met. I don’t have great insight into their family but I believe they are giving their kids a great upbringing even if nontraditional.

The other couple kept the marriage open (even after kids) and are now crashing and burning spectacularly.

So you never can tell.

So one family spectacularly exploded

and one family (which you don’t have insight into) also spectacularly exploded

I think we can tell.

One spectacularlt exploded - the ENM is making it worse, but would have failed anyway

The other is going strong

The other “going strong”? You described a couple who is (1) no longer ENM, and (2) in which one partner has transitioned.

Just spit-balling here, but do you think there’s any chance that the choice to do ENM, and the fact that one partner ultimately decided that they needed to transition to the other gender, might be related? This is not an issue that is common to a lot of marriages, and will likely become even less so as trans awareness improves and people transition earlier in life before settling into marriages that might be unlikely to meet their needs.

So based on your observations, ENM is either a weigh station on the way to divorce, or possibly a symptom of much larger gender/sexuality issues that go well beyond the constraints of monogamy.

I’m not willing to judge all cases, no. Monogamous couples certainly don’t behave well either.

Is that OP replying above?

If so: you certainly ARE willing to "judge all cases" since you commented not far above that "monogamy cannot be maintained in marriage." That's absolutely judging all cases and saying clearly that no marriage can stay monogamous. Do you not see the hypocrisy there? Saying you won't judge "all" cases, after doing exactly that above?

Anonymous wrote:People that are into this are mentally ill. Period.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My late MIL (who I really liked as a person in the DIL/MIL capacity) divorced my FIL 15 years before I met her because she didn't want to be monogamy, polyamorous and wanted an open marriage/polyamory (and FIL did not). The entire time I knew her she was in multiple relationships that seemed really weird to me but she wasn't my mother and for the longest time my DH was in denial as to what she was doing.

My SIL however was traumatized by it, and the full effects from it really weren't apparent until about 10 years ago when she had a severe mental break and was committed. When my inlaws divorced my SIL lived with her mother (my MIL) who apparently brought home multiple partners (whether at their residence or even on vacations), exposed her in sound (and sight) to her sexual encounters (so she heard and saw things), would have histrionic episodes on what love means, how she needs to live her life according to her own terms, needs to be free, etc. My DH, who is much older than my SIL, was pretty much out of the home at this point and at college, so while he knew his mom had lots of boyfriends/girlfriends he didn't know to what extent.

SIL became a cutter, anorexic, severely depressed. Being exposed to hyper sexuality is a trauma. My MIL calmed down a bit by the time I met her, and as soon as my SIL could leave the house she did and never looked back. When MIL died all these anxieties and stories from SIL came out. She's had electric shock therapy, all (and I mean ALL) the SSRIs, talk therapy, even spent months at Sheppard Pratt $$$. She's still very messed up.

You don't need to expose your kids to your sexual escapades, whether you are polyamorous or monogamous. If you feel this burning desire, that's on you. Your children aren't here to satiate your attention needs. Please, leave them out of it.

Unfortunately I think personality disorders are often co-concurrent with people who pursue open marriages or who lack the emotional maturity to parent well. So those kids have to deal with not only the disruption of open marriage, but often the trauma of a parent who is abusive or neglectful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads have only reinforced the notion that ENM is anything but E and incredibly selfish and likely involving narcissism and mental illness

I don't know anyone engaged in ENM who didn't either decide it didn't work OR later get diagnosed with bipolar, BPD, or other major issues OR they were happy content but it caused massive problems for others (the narcissists who just want what they want and don't care how it impacts others).

When I see people advocating for ENM like it's the magical solution to everything, and especially when they start trying to argue that ENM is the more "evolved" way to approach marriage, I just roll my eyes. Someone should do a study on ENM communities to show long-term outcomes, both on marriages and on any children raised by actively ENM couples. As someone who knows many ENM couples, I feel confident any such study would show that ENM is bad for long term marital success rates and especially bad for families.

Well, marital success rates are pretty bad with or without ENM. What irritates me is people who act like ENM is some way to increase the stability of marriage (obviously not) or refuse to consider the issues with kids or uneven power differentials.

That said, I do know two couples that got together very young and seem to have done ENM successfully in their 20s as a way to keep both the relationship and ability to experiment. One couple closed the relationship when they had kids and that seemed to be successful - but one of the partners later transitioned so there was obviously a lot going on. Writing this makes them sound chaotic but truly they are some of the best people I’ve met. I don’t have great insight into their family but I believe they are giving their kids a great upbringing even if nontraditional.

The other couple kept the marriage open (even after kids) and are now crashing and burning spectacularly.

So you never can tell.

So one family spectacularly exploded

and one family (which you don’t have insight into) also spectacularly exploded

I think we can tell.

One spectacularlt exploded - the ENM is making it worse, but would have failed anyway

The other is going strong

The other “going strong”? You described a couple who is (1) no longer ENM, and (2) in which one partner has transitioned.

Just spit-balling here, but do you think there’s any chance that the choice to do ENM, and the fact that one partner ultimately decided that they needed to transition to the other gender, might be related? This is not an issue that is common to a lot of marriages, and will likely become even less so as trans awareness improves and people transition earlier in life before settling into marriages that might be unlikely to meet their needs.

So based on your observations, ENM is either a weigh station on the way to divorce, or possibly a symptom of much larger gender/sexuality issues that go well beyond the constraints of monogamy.

I’m not willing to judge all cases, no. Monogamous couples certainly don’t behave well either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re in an open marriage, do your kids know?

Gross.

The only people I have ever known that have had a so-called open marriage were weirdos. If you are such a person, maybe just don't have kids. Because life isn't always about you when you have kids.