Anonymous wrote:

I completely understand the feeling of needing or wanting to sleep with him again.
Contrary to what other people think, you're not rewarding him for the affair -- you just want to feel closer to him (especially if you have no plans on leaving him).

It's natural to wonder if he still desires you after an affair... its natural to WANT him to desire you again after an affair.
It's natural to try to make him fall in love with you all over again after an affair.
It's natural to sleep with him because you're worried if you don't, he'll go back to her after an affair.

You sound pretty rational and level-headed, so I'm going to be honest with you... doing all of that is great if it satisfies you... but don't sleep with him because you want a certain end result to happen, also with him because you desire him, not because you're afraid he'll cheat again.

You know the signs if this were to happen again, so my one piece of advice is... don't take their word that it's over, just because they both say that it was.
He lied to you the entire length of the affair, he could be still lying to you.

When you're caught up in an affair, it's something new, exciting & enticing... you're suddenly feeling all of these emotions and feelings that you'd thought you'd never feel again, you're feeling desired.
It's very, very difficult to cut something like that off cold turkey -- it's a very powerful feeling, and very much like an addiction.

Just keep your eyes wide open, because a burner phone it's super easy to buy right now -- I got one to leave in my son's glove compartment for emergencies.
The phone was $18 & I loaded a $10 prepaid card on it which gave me 1000 talk time minutes, and 1000 texts.

Shipped overnight, and all for under $30 -- it was that easy.

So remember, if he has a reason to leave the house, he could be communicating with her still.

I hear you and appreciate it all thank you

I completely understand the feeling of needing or wanting to sleep with him again.
Contrary to what other people think, you're not rewarding him for the affair -- you just want to feel closer to him (especially if you have no plans on leaving him).

It's natural to wonder if he still desires you after an affair... its natural to WANT him to desire you again after an affair.
It's natural to try to make him fall in love with you all over again after an affair.
It's natural to sleep with him because you're worried if you don't, he'll go back to her after an affair.

You sound pretty rational and level-headed, so I'm going to be honest with you... doing all of that is great if it satisfies you... but don't sleep with him because you want a certain end result to happen, also with him because you desire him, not because you're afraid he'll cheat again.

You know the signs if this were to happen again, so my one piece of advice is... don't take their word that it's over, just because they both say that it was.
He lied to you the entire length of the affair, he could be still lying to you.

When you're caught up in an affair, it's something new, exciting & enticing... you're suddenly feeling all of these emotions and feelings that you'd thought you'd never feel again, you're feeling desired.
It's very, very difficult to cut something like that off cold turkey -- it's a very powerful feeling, and very much like an addiction.

Just keep your eyes wide open, because a burner phone it's super easy to buy right now -- I got one to leave in my son's glove compartment for emergencies.
The phone was $18 & I loaded a $10 prepaid card on it which gave me 1000 talk time minutes, and 1000 texts.

Shipped overnight, and all for under $30 -- it was that easy.

So remember, if he has a reason to leave the house, he could be communicating with her still.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are handing this with so much more grace than I did. I read the texts and emails between my H and his OW. He complained so much about me. I mean how dare I ask him to take care of his own kids and help me with the house. I worked as much as he did and paid the bills equally. There were no issues with his mistress like that. They lived in this fairy tale where they had no such problems. There only real issue in this lalala land they lived in was their spouses who kept getting in the way.

About a month before I found out about the affair he told me he was planning on going away for the weekend with his buddy on a golf weekend and his parents were coming to visit. I was like you are doing no such thing. He was so far gone he was going to miss part of his parents visit.

I read the text exchange and he told her how I made a huge issue and there was no way he could meet her now. He said it would raise to many red flags. She was upset and crying emojis like how dare I interfere.

The more I read the angrier I got. I was like you thought I was a nagging bi**h before you have seen nothing yet.

He spent a lot of money on his mistress on their dinners and trips so I made him sell his golf clubs, motorcycle, fishing/hunting equipment. He gave me all the money he made selling that stuff and I blew it. I had him doing all the cooking, cleaning, childcare while I went out with my friends. I spent his money like crazy beyond the items I made him sell and I dared him to say anything.

After 3 months of this I was like what the hell am I doing. I needed to get my sanity back. I kicked him out that day and I wish I said I filed for divorce but we separated and started marital counseling. It was a waste of time for me.

In counseling he told me that his mistress contacted him and I said I don't care. I said I could come home and find him f***ing her in our bed and I would say excuse me and shut the door and go about my business. He and the counselor looked at me in total shock and I said we need to get a divorce. It's been final for 2 months and I am still trying to find my new normal with the kids.

My life is so much better now that we are no longer in marital counseling and the divorce is final.

Do your kids feel the same way?

That's not snark, I'm genuinely curious.

Not PP so obviously I cannot answer the question. But looking at how much work BW have to do to get over the affair, and how all-consuming this is, I imagine a lot of them are much better moms after divorce. That is why I told my husband I wanted a divorce, even though the thought of doing that to my kids killed me. I was a shell of a human being because of what my husband was doing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here. Had our infidelity expert session last night (we are in a program, it’s approximately 3 months with sessions and homework, etc), these are not easy though the homework is helpful for both of us. I am finding myself feeling really down and depressed. I’m sure this is just part of the process, but I seem to have moved from the intensely angry/sad/hurt place to just - this sucks, I cannot control what he does in the future, and accepting that is very difficult. I still believe we can be better than ever really but it’s going to take so much work. Last night my husband handled something poorly with one of our kids, resulting in that kid going off (as feels dad has no place to say anything which is a bit unfair) and I saw my husband retreat to the critical, superior stance he often takes with me and the kids and it made me feel a bit hopeless. I did talk to him about it, which went reasonably well but I guess it’s just recognizing how much concerted work this all is going to take.

It will take time and work and you may find some peace over time or it may eat away at you forever. You just don’t know right now. For your depression, consider meeting with your doctor, amping up therapy, and finding more things that invigorate you. It’s ok to be down and sad too. He has destroyed your marriage and a big part of who you are.

Yeah May be I’m coming out of a kind of shock… it’s stark to realize it all - thank you

Anonymous wrote:You are handing this with so much more grace than I did. I read the texts and emails between my H and his OW. He complained so much about me. I mean how dare I ask him to take care of his own kids and help me with the house. I worked as much as he did and paid the bills equally. There were no issues with his mistress like that. They lived in this fairy tale where they had no such problems. There only real issue in this lalala land they lived in was their spouses who kept getting in the way.

About a month before I found out about the affair he told me he was planning on going away for the weekend with his buddy on a golf weekend and his parents were coming to visit. I was like you are doing no such thing. He was so far gone he was going to miss part of his parents visit.

I read the text exchange and he told her how I made a huge issue and there was no way he could meet her now. He said it would raise to many red flags. She was upset and crying emojis like how dare I interfere.

The more I read the angrier I got. I was like you thought I was a nagging bi**h before you have seen nothing yet.

He spent a lot of money on his mistress on their dinners and trips so I made him sell his golf clubs, motorcycle, fishing/hunting equipment. He gave me all the money he made selling that stuff and I blew it. I had him doing all the cooking, cleaning, childcare while I went out with my friends. I spent his money like crazy beyond the items I made him sell and I dared him to say anything.

After 3 months of this I was like what the hell am I doing. I needed to get my sanity back. I kicked him out that day and I wish I said I filed for divorce but we separated and started marital counseling. It was a waste of time for me.

In counseling he told me that his mistress contacted him and I said I don't care. I said I could come home and find him f***ing her in our bed and I would say excuse me and shut the door and go about my business. He and the counselor looked at me in total shock and I said we need to get a divorce. It's been final for 2 months and I am still trying to find my new normal with the kids.

My life is so much better now that we are no longer in marital counseling and the divorce is final.

Do your kids feel the same way?

That's not snark, I'm genuinely curious.

Anonymous wrote:OP Here. Had our infidelity expert session last night (we are in a program, it’s approximately 3 months with sessions and homework, etc), these are not easy though the homework is helpful for both of us. I am finding myself feeling really down and depressed. I’m sure this is just part of the process, but I seem to have moved from the intensely angry/sad/hurt place to just - this sucks, I cannot control what he does in the future, and accepting that is very difficult. I still believe we can be better than ever really but it’s going to take so much work. Last night my husband handled something poorly with one of our kids, resulting in that kid going off (as feels dad has no place to say anything which is a bit unfair) and I saw my husband retreat to the critical, superior stance he often takes with me and the kids and it made me feel a bit hopeless. I did talk to him about it, which went reasonably well but I guess it’s just recognizing how much concerted work this all is going to take.

It will take time and work and you may find some peace over time or it may eat away at you forever. You just don’t know right now. For your depression, consider meeting with your doctor, amping up therapy, and finding more things that invigorate you. It’s ok to be down and sad too. He has destroyed your marriage and a big part of who you are.

OP Here. Had our infidelity expert session last night (we are in a program, it’s approximately 3 months with sessions and homework, etc), these are not easy though the homework is helpful for both of us. I am finding myself feeling really down and depressed. I’m sure this is just part of the process, but I seem to have moved from the intensely angry/sad/hurt place to just - this sucks, I cannot control what he does in the future, and accepting that is very difficult. I still believe we can be better than ever really but it’s going to take so much work. Last night my husband handled something poorly with one of our kids, resulting in that kid going off (as feels dad has no place to say anything which is a bit unfair) and I saw my husband retreat to the critical, superior stance he often takes with me and the kids and it made me feel a bit hopeless. I did talk to him about it, which went reasonably well but I guess it’s just recognizing how much concerted work this all is going to take.

PS I feel the same about Perel

PP - OP here. Really love how you think! Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard, but also understandable, to hear from other spouses who stayed, and are “happy” they stayed, that they still struggle at times 3-8 years down the road. Out of curiosity, do you struggle with trust, anger, memories of D day and immediate aftermath? All of the above, other issues? Thank you.

I'm the 8 years out lady, and I would say there is a psychological element to it (literally . . . it's PTSD) that can pop up from time to time. Just this week there was weirdness where Find My Phone showed my husband's laptop somewhere where he didn't mention going. This in itself wasn't a red flag but when we casually talked about our days he didn't mention it, and then when I asked he said he hadn't been there at that time. So then I had to decide if I believed he was lying or not, and if so, what was he hiding. Ultimately I determined it was a blip (he had driven through there earlier in the day). The thing is, I really did trust that he wasn't having an affair. I was thinking, maybe he is buying weed or something that he's mildly embarrassed about and is just reverting to treating me like a parent rather than a spouse. My gut said it wasn't cheating and that was good enough for me (after a lengthy discussion where I verified what I was feeling). So I guess my point is that you can have both trust and triggers at the same time.

I have developed a phobia of flying because of some bad experiences, and it's just something I have to live with. I've done therapy, I've figured out every way to make my health problems not flare up while flying, etc. It's not a rational thing but a faulty feedback loop in my brain. To me, the affair is like that too. I don't have anger, really, at this point. This year on the anniversary of DDay I forgot what day it was. So it's not like I live in affair land at this point, though from my responding here you can tell that I have an interest in talking about it; that's therapeutic for me. And like I said, I don't really struggle with trust. It helps that my husband is a really bad liar - he looks like he's trying to hold a fart in lol. And during the affair he went to these great lengths to avoid having to lie directly, which was super weird and made me wonder what was going on, of course. So I just trust that he hasn't turned into some kind of smooth psychopath since then, who can just lie with ease.

I remember in my early days after DDay I reached out to a friend that I just had an instinct could help me. She would up telling me she was 9 years out from her husband's affair. I remember she told me that life went on and they were happy, though she still thought about it every day. She told me a funny story about accidentally friend-requesting the OW's now-husband. Actually, she and her husband did eventually divorce. I think she would say that the years they tried to stay together were worth it. In the end, he had mental health struggles that he wasn't willing to address.

I can totally understand those of you earlier in your journeys wondering if you can be happy or just "happy" down the road. But honestly, you are you either way! You make the best choice you can based on the information you have, just as you do a thousand times over in life. You can always make a different choice later. I just remember that research into people's contentment, that losing a limb or winning the lottery only changes people's happiness for a short time. Eventually, we revert to our mean. Now the exception would be if you are staying in a toxic situation, which I hope no one is. You can't thrive if you are constantly under stress and walking on eggshells. But if you have a partner who is willing to look at themselves and do the work, yes, life can be happy and messy and complicated and beautiful and all the things life is.

In general I am not a fan of Esther Perel because I think she places too much blame on the marriage, but I do appreciate her points about how infidelity can, in some ways, reinvigorate a marriage. Of course I would never consciously choose to go through what we went through, but there were ways that we came together afterwards that probably wouldn't have happened otherwise, if that makes sense. There's a certain desperation and clinging to one another that we feel from time to time.

This is a major explosion in your life. And now you are in a space where you have to determine what information you believe, and pay attention to: the texts and messages, where he tells his affair partner how unhappy he was, how little you matter, or now that he has been caught, the soundbites he is giving you that she means nothing, and he only wants you. It’s difficult, because if nothing else he has proven that he is a successful liar to women, both you and the woman he was having a relationship with.

Actions will matter a lot right now. If he is really feeling remorseful and is doing and showing things to try to change, then it is a glimmer of hope for both of you. You have to now determine if that is enough for you, if there is enough there that you would want to salvage. And you also must realize that some people are very very good at lying, and your husband may very well be one of them. And his attempts to woo you and win you over now COULD all just a part of the lies until he gets into a space where he is able to cheat again. And then he will hope he will cover his tracks better. Or that you would forgive him again since you did the first time.

It is a hard reality for many people in this situation who have been lied to and cheated on. You can go on a path towards reconciliation, hoping that he is one of the very few who can make life changes, and trust again, but the percentage is never going to be on your side. It may always be an uphill battle — him trying to stay honest and failing or him staying faithful but you always second guessing. Unfortunately, that is a hard truth. I wish you good luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, it’s actually the things he said versus the sex itself that’s been the hardest. They included:

He was repulsed by me
Not emotionally invested ever
Never wanted to marry me
Stayed as we have a child with a disease
She was “put in his path” so he could finally get the courage to leave
I was over-weight (I’m attractive but 53 and have had about ten stubborn extra pounds during menopause)
He was seeing a therapist to try to figure out how to tell me
He was in love with her - his words
He pursued her pretty aggressively I’d say she was hesitant due to him being married

If your best friend or daughter came to you and shared this, what would your advice to them be? What would your pep talk to them be? Believe you are worth more than this.

NP here. If this was my best friend, ultimately they have to live with whatever decision is made, not me. Whether they decide to stay or go my advice would be
- he needs to fix his sh$t first and foremost and if the therapist isn’t working for him, he needs to find a new one. I’ve always maintained that you should never treat your spouse worse than you would treat a friend and he would never have been that cruel about a close friend. Either that’s who he is as a person or it’s behavior that can be changed only if he is committed to understanding himself and changing and it isn’t your job to change him
- vasectomy
- take him up on offer to get another job without travel - being at home vs on the road makes a difference in household dynamics
- I would caution marriage counseling without him being further along and committed to working out his own issues first.
I think whether the relationship continues or ends in co-parenting/divorce the same advice holds true.

It’s hard, but also understandable, to hear from other spouses who stayed, and are “happy” they stayed, that they still struggle at times 3-8 years down the road. Out of curiosity, do you struggle with trust, anger, memories of D day and immediate aftermath? All of the above, other issues? Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey OP, I'm 8 years out from my husband's six month, mainly long-distance affair. I can understand how devastating seeing those texts was. Thankfully my husband is not a prolific texter and their communications were mainly Facetime, so I am spared from that, though the few messages I saw are seared in my brain (for some reason he felt compelled to announce that our marriage was like a bell that couldn't be unrung . . . um thanks?).

Like your husband, he thought he was faced with this great choice, two roads diverging in a yellow wood and all that. He also got into therapy for help with his "dilemma." He thought the therapist would indulge his fantasies of life with the OW, but instead the therapist told him to focus on his marriage. Looking back, I recognize this as a time when he was making clumsy attempts to woo me after months of being cold and distant.

But then DDay happened and there was no agonizing choice, just immediately dumping the OW and scrambling to save our life together. I can understand the psychology of an affair, that you're this highly desirable person choosing between duty and passion without recognizing that the grass is greenest where you water it or that you're addicted to the dopamine hits rather than experiencing a truly deep and meaningful relationship. (That's not to say that there aren't affairs that qualify as deep and meaningful, but these six month romps with women trying to bag a successful husband are not those.)

I second the recommendation for survivinginfidelity.com. This is a marathon, not a sprint. You don't need to know what you want right now. Trying to save a decades long marriage is not foolish . . . what's foolish is refusing to recognize when it simply isn't possible, but you're not at that point yet and may never be.

Obviously all marriages have room for improvement, but I would shut down any conversation about that right now. He needs to break the association between the less than perfect marriage and his choice to cheat. You were in the same marriage and you didn't cheat. This is like an employee getting caught stealing at work and then trying to use it as a jumping off point for airing all their workplace grievances. Um . . . feeling like you got passed over for a promotion didn't make it suddenly OK for you to steal from the company, buddy. And framing it that way to the person you stole from is just gross and insulting. It's an issue of your own character that you chose to act out destructively rather than deal with your feelings constructively.

What I've always told my husband is that he played Russian roulette with our marriage, where the "best" outcome was that I suffered enormously and we worked through pain and trauma just to come out where we started . . . happily married. And while intellectually I know that bad things can befall us at any time, it really was a shock to the system to realize that my life partner could just stab me in the back. It changes you.

That's not to say that my life is terrible. I've always been a strong person, and I've gotten through hard things before and since. I know that life involves suffering, but I also know how to root myself in gratitude, loving relationships, etc. I can't wonder what our life would have been like without the infidelity because there's just no way to know, but we do have a loving and healthy relationship that we tend very carefully now. And 8 years later my husband is still in therapy and still working on himself. I know you're not sure if your husband's efforts are a long term commitment or a short term save your a$$ attempt, and unfortunately only time will tell.

You'll be OK. You may stay together, or you may divorce, but whatever comes, you will still be you, and you will be OK. Take heart in that.

This might be the best and most compassionate advice I’ve ever seen on DCUM.

— a BW who stayed

Agree. I’m the OP and really appreciate everything you conveyed. I feel like I’m real like, we’d be friends.

I’m strong, too, been through a ton in my life, and I know I’ll be ok either way. Thankful for truly beautiful, supportive friendships in my life and kind strangers, like yourself!

We will do the work, and really only time will tell.
Thank you!

You guys beat me to it. I agree! I’m 3 years out and it was good to hear from someone much further down the road. I relate to do much that she said. I am mostly happy, but still struggle at times.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone asked how kids know. They are 17 and 20, the younger one (at home still) overheard some things and I forgot we share and audible account and she saw some books I’d downloaded and put two and two together. Obviously, we had to tell her brother then too. They’ve been extremely upset. It’s made things a lot harder.

Same happened to me. My H synced his phone with our apple account and my 8th grader received text messages from the OW. We then had to tell his brother.

The H's stupidity is breathtaking. I can't even imagine how he explained this to your child. Or maybe the idiot H just let YOU do the explaining. FFS.