Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Put the disruptive kids in virtual public school and let the well behaved kids meet in person. Would cost virtually nothing and solve everything.

As long as you don't care about the kids, their families, or the impact to society when those kids get older.

Why are the parents not responsible here?

We could say the same thing about you. Pull your own kids out if you don't like inclusive public schools. NT kids are going to be much easier to homeschool or virtual school effectively than those with special needs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Put the disruptive kids in virtual public school and let the well behaved kids meet in person. Would cost virtually nothing and solve everything.

As long as you don't care about the kids, their families, or the impact to society when those kids get older.

Why are the parents not responsible here?

Anonymous wrote:Put the disruptive kids in virtual public school and let the well behaved kids meet in person. Would cost virtually nothing and solve everything.

As long as you don't care about the kids, their families, or the impact to society when those kids get older.

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to get flamed for this, but we need to stop allocating a disproportionate amount of time, energy, and resources to the 5% of students who 1) are constantly disruptive to the learning environment, often due to past trauma or a severe lack of emotional regulation and/or 2) are so far behind that they will never, ever catch up in a general education setting. Time and bandwidth are not infinite resources; I’m going to focus on the 95% who I actually may be able to help.

I think we need intensive, remedial schools for kids who are far behind, and structured, therapeutic schools for violent, chronically disruptive, or sociopathic students. Pretending that college is for everyone is just ridiculous.

I’m 100% a progressive Democrat and supporter of public schools, but also an experienced educator and pragmatist.

No one wants to pay for that. Special schools and programs are very expensive.

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to get flamed for this, but we need to stop allocating a disproportionate amount of time, energy, and resources to the 5% of students who 1) are constantly disruptive to the learning environment, often due to past trauma or a severe lack of emotional regulation and/or 2) are so far behind that they will never, ever catch up in a general education setting. Time and bandwidth are not infinite resources; I’m going to focus on the 95% who I actually may be able to help.

I think we need intensive, remedial schools for kids who are far behind, and structured, therapeutic schools for violent, chronically disruptive, or sociopathic students. Pretending that college is for everyone is just ridiculous.

I’m 100% a progressive Democrat and supporter of public schools, but also an experienced educator and pragmatist.

I agree and so do most other teachers.

Anonymous wrote:Put the disruptive kids in virtual public school and let the well behaved kids meet in person. Would cost virtually nothing and solve everything.

The most disruptive kids are the ones least likely to have a place to do virtual school or the parental oversight to do it. So this would essentially mean that the most disruptive kids are the ones who aren't in school at all. Look at what happened with juvenile crime during and after the pandemic -- we don't want that.

What we actually need are alternative schools that better meet the needs of kids with serious academic deficiencies or major behavioral issues. Which would free schools to actually educate the rest of kids who want to be there and can behave in the classroom, while also providing the kids who don't want to be there and can't behave with an education that meets them where they are at. Whether that's intensive remedial work to get them back on track or vocational education or a place where they can receive mental health and probationary services.

Put the disruptive kids in virtual public school and let the well behaved kids meet in person. Would cost virtually nothing and solve everything.

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to get flamed for this, but we need to stop allocating a disproportionate amount of time, energy, and resources to the 5% of students who 1) are constantly disruptive to the learning environment, often due to past trauma or a severe lack of emotional regulation and/or 2) are so far behind that they will never, ever catch up in a general education setting. Time and bandwidth are not infinite resources; I’m going to focus on the 95% who I actually may be able to help.

I think we need intensive, remedial schools for kids who are far behind, and structured, therapeutic schools for violent, chronically disruptive, or sociopathic students. Pretending that college is for everyone is just ridiculous.

I’m 100% a progressive Democrat and supporter of public schools, but also an experienced educator and pragmatist.

I completely agree with you, but I already see people refusing to spend more money on schools. Separate classrooms require money. Without a lot more money, the fear is that kids who aren't mainstreamed will just be warehoused somewhere and not taught, and I think that's a rational fear given how things were done in the past.
I also liked other PP's point that too many jobs now require a degree. It makes it difficult to tell a kid that they don't need college. I don't know how to fix that.
But I do agree with you that our attempts to put everybody in the same classroom do not work. And, there's also nothing wrong with tracking by ability.

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to get flamed for this, but we need to stop allocating a disproportionate amount of time, energy, and resources to the 5% of students who 1) are constantly disruptive to the learning environment, often due to past trauma or a severe lack of emotional regulation and/or 2) are so far behind that they will never, ever catch up in a general education setting. Time and bandwidth are not infinite resources; I’m going to focus on the 95% who I actually may be able to help.

I think we need intensive, remedial schools for kids who are far behind, and structured, therapeutic schools for violent, chronically disruptive, or sociopathic students. Pretending that college is for everyone is just ridiculous.

I’m 100% a progressive Democrat and supporter of public schools, but also an experienced educator and pragmatist.

I agree with you but this is very counter to the last 15 or so years of education policy so it's an uphill battle. And it's unlikely to get better anytime soon because we have made schools the battle line for correcting racial inequality. And they can't do it. But we don't want to admit this because it raises the question of what *can* do it. No one wants to have that conversation.

So instead we persist with the lie that every child is capable of getting a college degree. Kids don't even want this -- if you actually talk to kids, many of them will tell you they resent the pressure to attend college and be academic. There are kids of all races who would prefer the "educational inequality" of 50 years ago that would enable someone to get a perfectly good job with a high school degree (or less), over the present situation where even being a grocery store manager requires a bachelors degree.

An education system that truly met the needs of all kids and provided them with what they need to be successful in the careers or lives to which they are best suited would be highly inequitable. Including along racial lines because socioeconomics in this country break down along racial lines.

We want education to fix that for us and it hasn't so instead we pretend that all kids are inherently capable and that doesn't work but we are very, very committed to that fiction.

I’m going to get flamed for this, but we need to stop allocating a disproportionate amount of time, energy, and resources to the 5% of students who 1) are constantly disruptive to the learning environment, often due to past trauma or a severe lack of emotional regulation and/or 2) are so far behind that they will never, ever catch up in a general education setting. Time and bandwidth are not infinite resources; I’m going to focus on the 95% who I actually may be able to help.

I think we need intensive, remedial schools for kids who are far behind, and structured, therapeutic schools for violent, chronically disruptive, or sociopathic students. Pretending that college is for everyone is just ridiculous.

I’m 100% a progressive Democrat and supporter of public schools, but also an experienced educator and pragmatist.

We need to bring back the workhouses.

Eh. They were pretty bad in the US prepandemic as well.

Anonymous wrote:The public school system is a disgrace.

It really is. I returned to teaching when my kids were in MS and HS but if I knew then what I know now I'd have sent them to private school. Behavior in public school is horrific and the schools can't do anything about it. Many of the poorly behaved kids are hiding behind IEPs but even the ones that aren't are not disciplined.

Teaching is all done from slide decks and videos since Covid. Teachers are not allowed to deviate at all because that isn't "equitable." Basically they don't want classes with a good teacher to have an unfair advantage over classes with a crappy teacher. All projects, assignments, tests, etc. have to be the same across the grade level and even across the district.

I don't think it's possible with the diversity and numbers in public schools to really shine as a whole in mainstream USA. Totally impossible.

You can however have certain districts with specific families who are supportive in the educational front have strong public schools.

I think people expect too much from the system and need to be realistic. We sent our kids to private as we wanted them to have a curriculum that developed them to be well rounded but we also know that schools can only do so much and it's up to us as parents to see them leverage their abilities to succeed academically. That means learning how to advocate for themselves, organize effectively, do the work to learn but also be able to socially engage.

To me, the real gift of public schools enable socialization and that's key to a practical education. How you relate to others will ultimately ensure your success. Academically, the system will never be strong enough for everyone.

Anonymous wrote:Do parents with good students also feel that public schools are getting bad? Or is it only parents of struggling students feel that it is getting bad?

What does getting bad even mean?

I generally do not have high expectations for public schools but have high expectations or my kids. There are things I hear about school I am not a fan of, like the pace of learning, and use of Chromebooks, but my kids are doing fine and I don't feel like "schools are getting bad". It is about as expected.

Maybe the differences are what one expects.