Anonymous
05/11/2023 12:58
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went to high school with a girl who's parent had killed themselves and what I learned from three years of being around her is that parents should not kill themselves. It messed her up in so many ways.
Hopefully Leta can take the summer to process and get back to school in the fall. I hope both girls have some sort of peace about this at some point soon. Yes, I'm assuming Heather killed herself.
You’re an ignoramus. You might as well take tears to lean that people shouldn’t get cancer either.
She didn’t choose to have the disease she fought mightily for 15 years. She tried literally every antidepressant. She tried experimental treatments. She fought to live with every fiber of her being.
She stayed as long as she could.
No, actually one of my best friends mom died accidentally and my friend was much more mentally healthy.
I think the way a parent dies does make a difference, obviously. I think the thinking is that a parent taking their life is an attack on an unspoken, unconscious embedded parent/child promise/contract.... it is an attack on life itself. For a parent, It is a profoundly destructive act to inflict on one's child, even though of course that is rarely ever the intent. That's part of why it's tragic. She was ill for many years, she suffered deeply, and she tried a lot of things to help herself. Her children, her entire family will spend their lives processing it on various levels and their understanding will change and evolve as they age. But what a deep well of pain to all who knew and loved her. Horrible. I hope her writing may help them to gain some understanding of their mother and may bring some comfort over time, when they are grown women themselves. As a mother, I also always think of the mother left behind.
Anonymous
05/11/2023 12:39
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:I'm 58, so about 10 years older than Dooce, and I remember reading her posts many years ago when my children were little. What some of you young uns might not realize is what a pathbreaker she was when she started her blog. In the mid-2000's, there was no tradition of women even talking publicly about how hard parenting can be, how it affects your identity and self esteem, your marriage.
No wine moms. The term 'sanctimommy' hadn't been coined yet. There was no word to describe the ways that some women managed to make you feel bad about yourself when they competed with you on the parenting front.
I got married at age 29 and came of age when those terrible articles were everywhere about infertility and 'if you aren't married by the time you are thirty you are more likely to be killed by a terrorist than to have a child.' We were grateful that our husbands 'let us' work, and didn't dare ask for any sort of equal parenting. My girlfriends and I used to joke about our 'stealth jobs' that we did while our kids were in school but never letting on to our kids' teachers that we actually had jobs. We watched that trial on TV of the nanny who killed her charge and watched that scandal where the day care center was accused of conducting ritualized satanic abuse.
We were encouraged to believe that we could do it all and have it all. Being a mom was referred to as 'the toughest job you'll ever love.'
In short, there was NOWHERE to go to find a voice like hers -- that said things like "some days I wonder if I've made a mistake. it's scary being responsible for these little people, their psyches, etc." or 'I wonder who I am or if I'm ever going to find myself again.' These are sentiments that some of you may have encountered routinely when you had little kids, but at the time Heather was writing, these things were not said. And she said them. and helped us all to feel less alone. To be okay with our imperfections, with being imperfect, with being scared.
Her writing meant a lot to a lot of people of my generation. She paved the way for a lot of what you see routinely today on Tik Tok and elsewhere -- the one upping mom (she's awful!), the wealthy lady who doesn't understand what your problem is, etc. Probably this site. Anyway, I'll miss her.
Well said. Thank you. I'm a mother since early 2000's and wish I had a chance to read a real person's maternal struggles. Now my youngest kid is in HS and looking back at those years I wonder how I survived.
Anonymous
05/11/2023 12:36
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:She was a tremendously gifted writer. And so obviously struggling with demons, almost all the time. Even when she was well....well, she was never really well. A very, very sad story.
NP and the her obit-linked blog post was a rambling, incoherent mess. D- writing.
I write this as someone who never even heard of "Dooce" until yesterday when I saw her obit. I've never read a word of hers until this thread prompted me to look at that linked blog yesterday.
You and the other PP judging the quality of that post's writing are humans somehow born without a shred of empathy, and you also lack any intelligence for understanding context.
Did you both miss, or just choose to ignore, the context? This was linked in the obit because--really, ONLY because--it was her final public post before she apparently succumbed again to addiction and then shortly after, killed herself. That's why it's getting attention. Not because anyone's trying to hold it up as an example of good writing generally or even an example of her past work's quality.
I question the reasoning behind obits directing people to the last public outpourings of a person who sadly was so mentally ill she committed suicide; I wish they hadn't linked that particular post.
But the two of you who came here to grade it and snark at it simply as a piece of writing, when it's basically a sad cry from a sick woman, are pitiful examples of humanity.
Agree! Very cruel.
Anonymous
05/11/2023 12:29
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:I'm 58, so about 10 years older than Dooce, and I remember reading her posts many years ago when my children were little. What some of you young uns might not realize is what a pathbreaker she was when she started her blog. In the mid-2000's, there was no tradition of women even talking publicly about how hard parenting can be, how it affects your identity and self esteem, your marriage.
No wine moms. The term 'sanctimommy' hadn't been coined yet. There was no word to describe the ways that some women managed to make you feel bad about yourself when they competed with you on the parenting front.
I got married at age 29 and came of age when those terrible articles were everywhere about infertility and 'if you aren't married by the time you are thirty you are more likely to be killed by a terrorist than to have a child.' We were grateful that our husbands 'let us' work, and didn't dare ask for any sort of equal parenting. My girlfriends and I used to joke about our 'stealth jobs' that we did while our kids were in school but never letting on to our kids' teachers that we actually had jobs. We watched that trial on TV of the nanny who killed her charge and watched that scandal where the day care center was accused of conducting ritualized satanic abuse.
We were encouraged to believe that we could do it all and have it all. Being a mom was referred to as 'the toughest job you'll ever love.'
In short, there was NOWHERE to go to find a voice like hers -- that said things like "some days I wonder if I've made a mistake. it's scary being responsible for these little people, their psyches, etc." or 'I wonder who I am or if I'm ever going to find myself again.' These are sentiments that some of you may have encountered routinely when you had little kids, but at the time Heather was writing, these things were not said. And she said them. and helped us all to feel less alone. To be okay with our imperfections, with being imperfect, with being scared.
Her writing meant a lot to a lot of people of my generation. She paved the way for a lot of what you see routinely today on Tik Tok and elsewhere -- the one upping mom (she's awful!), the wealthy lady who doesn't understand what your problem is, etc. Probably this site. Anyway, I'll miss her.
It would have been so much better if she simply wrote about it all more anonymously and left out photos of her girls and their names. She could have simply gone by Dooce and had an avatar or something. She did something useful and also incredibly destructive. She helped people feel less alone and also helped inspire more moms to exploit their children for fame and fortune.
Anonymous
05/11/2023 12:02
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
I'm 58, so about 10 years older than Dooce, and I remember reading her posts many years ago when my children were little. What some of you young uns might not realize is what a pathbreaker she was when she started her blog. In the mid-2000's, there was no tradition of women even talking publicly about how hard parenting can be, how it affects your identity and self esteem, your marriage.
No wine moms. The term 'sanctimommy' hadn't been coined yet. There was no word to describe the ways that some women managed to make you feel bad about yourself when they competed with you on the parenting front.
I got married at age 29 and came of age when those terrible articles were everywhere about infertility and 'if you aren't married by the time you are thirty you are more likely to be killed by a terrorist than to have a child.' We were grateful that our husbands 'let us' work, and didn't dare ask for any sort of equal parenting. My girlfriends and I used to joke about our 'stealth jobs' that we did while our kids were in school but never letting on to our kids' teachers that we actually had jobs. We watched that trial on TV of the nanny who killed her charge and watched that scandal where the day care center was accused of conducting ritualized satanic abuse.
We were encouraged to believe that we could do it all and have it all. Being a mom was referred to as 'the toughest job you'll ever love.'
In short, there was NOWHERE to go to find a voice like hers -- that said things like "some days I wonder if I've made a mistake. it's scary being responsible for these little people, their psyches, etc." or 'I wonder who I am or if I'm ever going to find myself again.' These are sentiments that some of you may have encountered routinely when you had little kids, but at the time Heather was writing, these things were not said. And she said them. and helped us all to feel less alone. To be okay with our imperfections, with being imperfect, with being scared.
Her writing meant a lot to a lot of people of my generation. She paved the way for a lot of what you see routinely today on Tik Tok and elsewhere -- the one upping mom (she's awful!), the wealthy lady who doesn't understand what your problem is, etc. Probably this site. Anyway, I'll miss her.
No wine moms. The term 'sanctimommy' hadn't been coined yet. There was no word to describe the ways that some women managed to make you feel bad about yourself when they competed with you on the parenting front.
I got married at age 29 and came of age when those terrible articles were everywhere about infertility and 'if you aren't married by the time you are thirty you are more likely to be killed by a terrorist than to have a child.' We were grateful that our husbands 'let us' work, and didn't dare ask for any sort of equal parenting. My girlfriends and I used to joke about our 'stealth jobs' that we did while our kids were in school but never letting on to our kids' teachers that we actually had jobs. We watched that trial on TV of the nanny who killed her charge and watched that scandal where the day care center was accused of conducting ritualized satanic abuse.
We were encouraged to believe that we could do it all and have it all. Being a mom was referred to as 'the toughest job you'll ever love.'
In short, there was NOWHERE to go to find a voice like hers -- that said things like "some days I wonder if I've made a mistake. it's scary being responsible for these little people, their psyches, etc." or 'I wonder who I am or if I'm ever going to find myself again.' These are sentiments that some of you may have encountered routinely when you had little kids, but at the time Heather was writing, these things were not said. And she said them. and helped us all to feel less alone. To be okay with our imperfections, with being imperfect, with being scared.
Her writing meant a lot to a lot of people of my generation. She paved the way for a lot of what you see routinely today on Tik Tok and elsewhere -- the one upping mom (she's awful!), the wealthy lady who doesn't understand what your problem is, etc. Probably this site. Anyway, I'll miss her.
Anonymous
05/11/2023 11:35
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went to high school with a girl who's parent had killed themselves and what I learned from three years of being around her is that parents should not kill themselves. It messed her up in so many ways.
Hopefully Leta can take the summer to process and get back to school in the fall. I hope both girls have some sort of peace about this at some point soon. Yes, I'm assuming Heather killed herself.
You’re an ignoramus. You might as well take tears to lean that people shouldn’t get cancer either.
She didn’t choose to have the disease she fought mightily for 15 years. She tried literally every antidepressant. She tried experimental treatments. She fought to live with every fiber of her being.
She stayed as long as she could.
No, actually one of my best friends mom died accidentally and my friend was much more mentally healthy.
Not the person you're replying to, but:
You know one person whose one parent died one way, and the person had one specific mental health outcome. That example is individual and does not create a universal truth applicable to others. I'm glad your friend held up OK after his or her parent's accidental death. But bringing that up in response to this discussion is incredibly tone-deaf and zero help to anyone who has lost a parent to suicide. Or to an accident, either, actually.
Your friend was "much more mentally healthy" than...someone?,anyone?, whose parent died by suicide? Is that what you're saying? Not a useful example or data point at all. Your friend could have been devastated; the child of a person who died by suicide could "hold up OK." Impossible to predict well.
Not a useful comment like you think it is.
Anonymous
05/11/2023 11:12
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Are there summary links for those of us who are new to GOMI/Dooce?
www.google.com
NP. Oh come on. This is like a decades old mommy blog war that took place in niche compartments of the internet. I have been googling it and went to GOMI to see what you all were talking about and didn't even understand the website. I saw no one named Alice, it seemed like just...like a place where anyone can post something? I came back hoping someone had responded to PP with some TLDR summary.
This is a good TLDR on GOMI (Dooce is among the bloggers quoted in the article).
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jan/21/gomi-blog-internet-comments-women
Oooh I LOVE GOMI and consider it a sister site to DCUM!!! Both moderators have a LOT in common and the pool of commenters does too.
Jeff and Alice are nothing alike.
+1
That’s a serious insult to Jeff, who is nothing like Alice (e.g. has morals, isn’t toxic, isn’t exploitative).
Anonymous
05/11/2023 10:48
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
I still can't believe it. i've been reading her since they lived in LA and it somehow feels like I've lost an acquaintance. such a weird feeling.
Anonymous
05/11/2023 10:39
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went to high school with a girl who's parent had killed themselves and what I learned from three years of being around her is that parents should not kill themselves. It messed her up in so many ways.
Hopefully Leta can take the summer to process and get back to school in the fall. I hope both girls have some sort of peace about this at some point soon. Yes, I'm assuming Heather killed herself.
You’re an ignoramus. You might as well take tears to lean that people shouldn’t get cancer either.
She didn’t choose to have the disease she fought mightily for 15 years. She tried literally every antidepressant. She tried experimental treatments. She fought to live with every fiber of her being.
She stayed as long as she could.
No, actually one of my best friends mom died accidentally and my friend was much more mentally healthy.
Anonymous
05/11/2023 10:34
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:She was a tremendously gifted writer. And so obviously struggling with demons, almost all the time. Even when she was well....well, she was never really well. A very, very sad story.
NP and the her obit-linked blog post was a rambling, incoherent mess. D- writing.
I write this as someone who never even heard of "Dooce" until yesterday when I saw her obit. I've never read a word of hers until this thread prompted me to look at that linked blog yesterday.
You and the other PP judging the quality of that post's writing are humans somehow born without a shred of empathy, and you also lack any intelligence for understanding context.
Did you both miss, or just choose to ignore, the context? This was linked in the obit because--really, ONLY because--it was her final public post before she apparently succumbed again to addiction and then shortly after, killed herself. That's why it's getting attention. Not because anyone's trying to hold it up as an example of good writing generally or even an example of her past work's quality.
I question the reasoning behind obits directing people to the last public outpourings of a person who sadly was so mentally ill she committed suicide; I wish they hadn't linked that particular post.
But the two of you who came here to grade it and snark at it simply as a piece of writing, when it's basically a sad cry from a sick woman, are pitiful examples of humanity.
Anonymous
05/11/2023 10:27
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:How is amalah doing? I thought of her when I heard the dooce news. I hope she is well.
I wondered, too. I don't know what platform she's posting on these days, but I hope she is okay.
I hope so too. I have taken her step back from Insta and her blog to be a healthy sign hopefully that she is parenting and living her life and hopefully that she is ok!
ummmm
Anonymous
05/11/2023 10:14
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:How is amalah doing? I thought of her when I heard the dooce news. I hope she is well.
I wondered, too. I don't know what platform she's posting on these days, but I hope she is okay.
I hope so too. I have taken her step back from Insta and her blog to be a healthy sign hopefully that she is parenting and living her life and hopefully that she is ok!
Anonymous
05/11/2023 10:14
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went to high school with a girl who's parent had killed themselves and what I learned from three years of being around her is that parents should not kill themselves. It messed her up in so many ways.
Hopefully Leta can take the summer to process and get back to school in the fall. I hope both girls have some sort of peace about this at some point soon. Yes, I'm assuming Heather killed herself.
You’re an ignoramus. You might as well take tears to lean that people shouldn’t get cancer either.
She didn’t choose to have the disease she fought mightily for 15 years. She tried literally every antidepressant. She tried experimental treatments. She fought to live with every fiber of her being.
She stayed as long as she could.
To kill your self when you have children is the ultimate act of cowardice. You’re leaving them with a lifetime of issues to unpack plus all the issues you already gave them by being such a bad person and parent! Yes I said it! Quit ennobling suicides and suicidal ideation with “she stayed as long as she could” and shit. She’s not a victim! She failed her kids. So did Amalah for that matter being found with her wrists sliced open and OD on stuff. These are awful narcissists! Life IS full of choices, you get busy livin or get busy dying!!
NP. I agree with this. I had an uncle who killed himself and his family was devastated from it and never recovered. It's really a terrible thing to do. People who are depressed have disordered thinking - that's why they need to make a promise that they will never kill themself and stick to it. Always.
Right. Because it’s that easy.
Anonymous
05/11/2023 10:13
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went to high school with a girl who's parent had killed themselves and what I learned from three years of being around her is that parents should not kill themselves. It messed her up in so many ways.
Hopefully Leta can take the summer to process and get back to school in the fall. I hope both girls have some sort of peace about this at some point soon. Yes, I'm assuming Heather killed herself.
You’re an ignoramus. You might as well take tears to lean that people shouldn’t get cancer either.
She didn’t choose to have the disease she fought mightily for 15 years. She tried literally every antidepressant. She tried experimental treatments. She fought to live with every fiber of her being.
She stayed as long as she could.
To kill your self when you have children is the ultimate act of cowardice. You’re leaving them with a lifetime of issues to unpack plus all the issues you already gave them by being such a bad person and parent! Yes I said it! Quit ennobling suicides and suicidal ideation with “she stayed as long as she could” and shit. She’s not a victim! She failed her kids. So did Amalah for that matter being found with her wrists sliced open and OD on stuff. These are awful narcissists! Life IS full of choices, you get busy livin or get busy dying!!
When people commit suicide, they often believe that they are so screwed up that their continuing living is more of a burden to people than a suicide would be. They are wrong, and that's tragic, but this is what the disease that causes suicide tell you -- that your loved ones would be better off if you weren't there.
When people like you express this kind of rage on this issue, it makes people like me, who have experienced suicidal ideation, feel like we simply are not cut out to live in this world. If you really care about other people's kids, you might try to cultivate some compassion for people who struggle with depression. Your current approach simply makes the world harsher, less forgiving, harder to live in. You are contributing to the problem you claim to abhor.
Again, if this triggers you do not read it. I am so sorry you lived through that but if this is what your life is like do NOT read posts about people who commit suicide, I promise you will come across lots of opinions about yourself and what you have done or thought that you will not like!!!
Anonymous
05/11/2023 10:12
Subject: Dooce /Heather Armstrong
Anonymous wrote:How is amalah doing? I thought of her when I heard the dooce news. I hope she is well.
I wondered, too. I don't know what platform she's posting on these days, but I hope she is okay.