Anonymous wrote:Have we all realized now that what was reported regarding the teacher's comments and what really happened are not the same? Hope so.

Hope he wins his lawsuit.

My kids know the teacher. I hope he wins too. We believe him.

What we have seen from B-CC and MoCo administration is sickening. Just look at what happened at the football game with WJ.

Violent students are never punished at B-CC. One of my kids still talks about the student who was beaten by another student with a chair. The kid graduated with everyone else last spring.

The commencement speaker was a disgrace, wasting everyone’s graduation memories with a grandiose, ridiculous, and embarrassing speech about random kids who he never thought would make it to graduation.

Many teachers are great but the administrators are corrupt and incompetent and have destroyed the school system. The race to the bottom is real.

It makes no sense that they require parental permission and the students were surprised it was happening.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! A restorative circle without the teacher? This is why RJ doesn’t work in MCPS, because they butcher the crap out of it

Some general principles regarding restorative justice - Restorative justice is a process and not just a single “circle”. Circles with the perpetrator are not always appropriate particularly when the perpetrator has greater structural and social power than the victims. Sometimes it is more appropriate to work with the victims first to make sure they can feely and openly articulate their concerns. Victims have the right to decide if they want to talk with their perpetrator or not. The perpetrator cannot force the school officials to only speak with the victims in the perpetrator’s presence.

Victim? What a joke. That's why we have crime everywhere.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! A restorative circle without the teacher? This is why RJ doesn’t work in MCPS, because they butcher the crap out of it

Some general principles regarding restorative justice - Restorative justice is a process and not just a single “circle”. Circles with the perpetrator are not always appropriate particularly when the perpetrator has greater structural and social power than the victims. Sometimes it is more appropriate to work with the victims first to make sure they can feely and openly articulate their concerns. Victims have the right to decide if they want to talk with their perpetrator or not. The perpetrator cannot force the school officials to only speak with the victims in the perpetrator’s presence.

This is interesting. So if a victim is a student, regardless of age, can they still decide to not talk with the perpetrator?

In this WaPo article, a student from Whitman which experienced the use of restorative justice by MCPS after an anti-semitic incident, explains, “Restorative justice circles are great for maybe bullying or other offenses at MCPS, but acts of hate against a group of people based on the ethnicity or religion — that is not the place,” said Barold, who is Jewish. “Restorative justice is a lot about forgiving who did it. And having to sit in the same room with them. It’s really re-traumatizing victims.”

In another part of the article, it says that MCPS has a consent form for restorative justice sessions. So, yes, according to the article, apparently MCPS has a parental consent form for restorative justice participants.

Human rights activists and attorneys will tell you that, for a variety of reasons, restorative justice must be voluntary. If the victim is forced to do it with the perpetrator, it can be re-traumatizing. The school could incur additional legal liability. If the perpetrator is forced to do it with the victim, it can violate due process rights or the right not to self-incriminate. No person under age 18 should be asked to do restorative justice without the informed consent of parents.

See https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/07/15/restorative-justice-montgomery-county-schools/

IMO, this could be one reason why Engler was not asked to participate in the session. If the students complained that his behavior was racist, then it would have been inappropriate to conduct the kind of restorative justice circle that included him.

To be fair, if Engler’s position was that he didn’t do what he was accused of, if I were his attorney, I would have advised him not to participate in a restorative justice session.

The problem with restorative justice circles that involve perpetrators is that very often the perpetrator comes in and explains that he didn’t do what he’s been accused of, or even if he did it wasn’t that bad, or he did it but he didn’t mean it the way it was interpreted, or he didn’t mean the harm it caused, or the victim should accept his apology immediately and fully and excuse him from any harsh penalty. All that can just make the situation worse.

And then there’s the thorny legal problem when the perpetrator has made some kind of admission during restorative justice that can later be used against him in criminal or civil liability or professional proceedings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! A restorative circle without the teacher? This is why RJ doesn’t work in MCPS, because they butcher the crap out of it

It works wonders at our school.

No it doesn't. It teaches one student that they can be bullied and then revictimized and no consequences for the person who will continue with that behavior which is why we saw what happened at the football game.

Anonymous wrote:This morning parents received an email from the principal telling us that a teacher had told black students in his class that he could not tell them apart. The email, which of course was written or edited by the central office, further stated that they were "investigating," blah blah blah.

The email, and the lack of immediate action, made me want to vomit. Is this 2023? Have we somehow completely lost our way? The only solution, if this is true, is to fire the teacher. Do not send him to a DEI training, do not reassign him to a different MCPS school, do not pass go. No adult who interacts daily with CHILDREN should have such crap coming out of his mouth.

My kid just got home and said the teacher lacks a filter (based on DC's personal knowledge) and that teacher was, in fact, fired. I hope this is true.

Be tolerant to the teacher, I'm sure he meant nothing bye it. No reason to assume the worst.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! A restorative circle without the teacher? This is why RJ doesn’t work in MCPS, because they butcher the crap out of it

Some general principles regarding restorative justice - Restorative justice is a process and not just a single “circle”. Circles with the perpetrator are not always appropriate particularly when the perpetrator has greater structural and social power than the victims. Sometimes it is more appropriate to work with the victims first to make sure they can feely and openly articulate their concerns. Victims have the right to decide if they want to talk with their perpetrator or not. The perpetrator cannot force the school officials to only speak with the victims in the perpetrator’s presence.

This is interesting. So if a victim is a student, regardless of age, can they still decide to not talk with the perpetrator?

Anonymous wrote:pretty sad to go back and read all the overreactions early in this thread.

Yes, and consider this goes on every day in schools.

Have we all realized now that what was reported regarding the teacher's comments and what really happened are not the same? Hope so.

Hope he wins his lawsuit.

Anonymous wrote:Wow! A restorative circle without the teacher? This is why RJ doesn’t work in MCPS, because they butcher the crap out of it

It works wonders at our school.

Anonymous wrote:Wow! A restorative circle without the teacher? This is why RJ doesn’t work in MCPS, because they butcher the crap out of it

Some general principles regarding restorative justice - Restorative justice is a process and not just a single “circle”. Circles with the perpetrator are not always appropriate particularly when the perpetrator has greater structural and social power than the victims. Sometimes it is more appropriate to work with the victims first to make sure they can feely and openly articulate their concerns. Victims have the right to decide if they want to talk with their perpetrator or not. The perpetrator cannot force the school officials to only speak with the victims in the perpetrator’s presence.

Wow! A restorative circle without the teacher? This is why RJ doesn’t work in MCPS, because they butcher the crap out of it

Post article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/09/01/bethesda-chevy-chase-racism-lawsuit/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The facts in the lawsuit are compelling. The fact that he was never subject to a disciplinary hearing, the fact that they couldn't find any students to corroborate what was said in the letter. That's something you don't forget.

That was my question - what did the other students say happened?

+2

Anonymous wrote:The facts in the lawsuit are compelling. The fact that he was never subject to a disciplinary hearing, the fact that they couldn't find any students to corroborate what was said in the letter. That's something you don't forget.

That was my question - what did the other students say happened?