Anonymous wrote:OP Here. It is sad to see how we all predictably veered towards arguing about affirmative action, privilege, discrimination etc. etc. This is probably why we are all in this mess.

Frankly, all those issues exist and are valid. However what we are missing is the discussion on the institutions that are supposed to teach our kids to build a better and just society are misleading and lying to everyone form all backgrounds and walks of life. The whole process of admission instead of healing is creating division, and making kids and parents fight each other as if it is the hunger games.

Yet you're paying for test prep, multiple test dates, tutoring and 10+ college applications. Part of the solution OR part of the problem?

College admissions in America and the multi billion ancillary industries isn't going to change.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not really. If a kid wants to go to college they will be able to go. It may not be their first choice but that is life.

We have much bigger issues in this country than whether Larlo gets into the state flagship her parents think she deserves bc she had x EC and x stats.

This is mostly a UMC class anxiety issue.

Agreed. In other countries, if your kid does not have top test scores or is not in the top of the class, they don’t go to college. Period. Americans are so lucky they live in a country where even an average student can go to college.

BS. They just don't go to the top college. They do get to go to *a* college.

Wrong, they don’t go to “a college”, they go to “no college”. That’s how it works in most other countries. Only the top students go to college. Everyone else chooses either trade school, work or some kind of apprenticeship. Again, we are very lucky in this country. There are so many things we take for granted and college is one of them.

I don't know what you are talking about.. I'm from India. Entering 11th grade, I was one of those kids who everyone thought would get into a top engineering or medical school. Screwed up in 11th and 12th grades (bad company, etc.) and bombed academics. Didn't get into any engineering or medical school, let alone the good ones. I did get into a regular college (3-year, arts college), one of the worst in my town. Went downhill even more. Graduated with meh grades, started working, picked up new skills, came to the US for a Masters after several years of work, and landed in IT management where I thrived. My degree was in the sciences and there were many colleges in town that offered degrees in the arts. These days there are even more such colleges. There were a few technical colleges that were called polytechnics but had far lower demand relative to arts colleges.

I am also part of the so called upper caste which face huge discrimination in every walk of life - college admissions, jobs, etc..and no, we were not rich.. at all. My dad had to ride a bicycle to work 45 minutes each way. The objective of my state's government was to limit our participation in colleges to our percentage of the population. My college cost $0 or heavily discounted for people of certain castes (which was about 70% of the the kids), regardless of their family wealth. Many of them were way richer than we were. Some also got scholarship money which went towards booze on the day it was paid out.

Conceptually, its the same here. Get good grades (and a bunch crowd pleasing nonsense ECs) you get a shot at top schools. If you are a 'certain race(s)' you get priority, need lower academic credentials, get scholarships, etc. in the name of 'holistic admissions'. If you are not (e.g. Asian) you are not welcome regardless of your financial status. You go down the list and pick a school that will take you. Same sh*t, different country.

OP Here. It is sad to see how we all predictably veered towards arguing about affirmative action, privilege, discrimination etc. etc. This is probably why we are all in this mess.

Frankly, all those issues exist and are valid. However what we are missing is the discussion on the institutions that are supposed to teach our kids to build a better and just society are misleading and lying to everyone form all backgrounds and walks of life. The whole process of admission instead of healing is creating division, and making kids and parents fight each other as if it is the hunger games.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Yep. 100%

The amount of lying and marketing oneself and trying to show you have some trauma or special adversity or belong to some outlier group so you can curry favor to Admin officers. It's gross.

And the fake non-profits and the no standards at times with overinflated gpas and no test results.

It's really gotten so out of hand given the sheer volume of applicants universities now face.

I swear it should be changed to this:

Everyone that meets certain requirements all get put in the hat and then they pull out admits like a lottery. At some point it's just too much.

All of these actions are based on heresy, mostly from parents who are just as clueless as the next person. I've never heard an AO say they want trauma or non-profits. Stop believing random strangers for something this important.

Not true. The heart-string stories. A friend was an AO at a top state university and the discussions were often said of very qualified kids from MC/UMC/!% that they never had to experience adversity. They were essentially penalized for coming from functional, normal backgrounds and being neurotypical 'normal' , but exceptional kids.

Yeah WTF a major goal of mind as a parent is to ensure my kids DO NOT experience adversity and now I’m hearing I shouldn’t have done that.

So you would trade places with my kid who has experienced adversity, right? You would totally want your kid to have dyslexia and ADHD, have invested $25,000 and countless hours (and tears) over the years to be sure they can learn to read and do math. You'd take the therapy for anxiety, because being a smart kid who still fails is really hard. But my kid is totally lucky because he's getting extra time on his SAT! He can write an essay about overcoming adversity!

You know you don't want your kid to have my kid's circumstances. And the reason you didn't let your kid grow up poor or traumatized is because you love them and want them to be well and happy, not because you thought being well was going to get them into college. Be sad that your kid can't get into the tippy top schools if you want to, but don't gaslight those of us with kids who has suffered by saying we have it lucky.

Mom of ADHD kid here. Kids like ours are discouraged from discussing any mental health or learning disabilities in college applications. The fact that you have $25K to throw at helping your kid is another strike against them. When colleges say they want to hear stories of adversity, they want to hear that you were a drug addict, your kid grew up in a trailer without running water or electricity, and the kid worked at a Dollar General to put food on the table for their six siblings. THAT’S a great college application.

True enough. But I don’t wish my kid grew up in a trailer without running water, do you? You wouldn’t trade your kid’s circumstances for that kid in the trailer’s, so clearly you don’t think that other kid is going to have a better life just because he got a bump in college admissions. I am perfectly happy knowing trailer kid gets a few more admissions points than my kid. It would be blind and hypocritical not to.

This, thank you for being rational. The bitterness towards students who are admitted in part for having a really hard luck story has never made sense to me because those kids have had really tough lives and yet still figured out how to do well in school and stay ambitious and invested enough to apply to college. More power to them. I'm okay with them going to an Ivy or whatever over my kid, who has had a really nice life with two loving parents and a safe home and lots of predictability and care. My kid is going to be fine. The kid who had to raise their siblings while working full time and taking care of their siblings honestly needs some help and I support a system that offers it. It's not about "gaming admissions." Come on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the process is easier if you have a medium-achieving student with medium goals. So, instead of a 4.0UW GPA with 10 AP tests with all 5s (and that's before senior year), varsity sport captain, etc, etc, you have a regular kid with a 3.5 GPA, a couple AP classes, a regular sport or EC or job. That first kid is qualified to go to any college or university but could get shut out, and the second kid knows they're aiming lower, probably picking schools with 70+% acceptance rates, and getting in most places.

+1. My kid was in the second pot and has been accepted everywhere they applied.

These are really first world problems.

+1 my kid was the second pot and is in a great situation - accepted everywhere applied with good merit scholarships.

Would both of you guys mind sharing some of the schools your DC’s applied to? My daughter seems to be in that second pot, and we’re starting to look at colleges now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep. 100%

The amount of lying and marketing oneself and trying to show you have some trauma or special adversity or belong to some outlier group so you can curry favor to Admin officers. It's gross.

And the fake non-profits and the no standards at times with overinflated gpas and no test results.

It's really gotten so out of hand given the sheer volume of applicants universities now face.

I swear it should be changed to this:

Everyone that meets certain requirements all get put in the hat and then they pull out admits like a lottery. At some point it's just too much.

All of these actions are based on heresy, mostly from parents who are just as clueless as the next person. I've never heard an AO say they want trauma or non-profits. Stop believing random strangers for something this important.

Not true. The heart-string stories. A friend was an AO at a top state university and the discussions were often said of very qualified kids from MC/UMC/!% that they never had to experience adversity. They were essentially penalized for coming from functional, normal backgrounds and being neurotypical 'normal' , but exceptional kids.

Yeah WTF a major goal of mind as a parent is to ensure my kids DO NOT experience adversity and now I’m hearing I shouldn’t have done that.

So you would trade places with my kid who has experienced adversity, right? You would totally want your kid to have dyslexia and ADHD, have invested $25,000 and countless hours (and tears) over the years to be sure they can learn to read and do math. You'd take the therapy for anxiety, because being a smart kid who still fails is really hard. But my kid is totally lucky because he's getting extra time on his SAT! He can write an essay about overcoming adversity!

You know you don't want your kid to have my kid's circumstances. And the reason you didn't let your kid grow up poor or traumatized is because you love them and want them to be well and happy, not because you thought being well was going to get them into college. Be sad that your kid can't get into the tippy top schools if you want to, but don't gaslight those of us with kids who has suffered by saying we have it lucky.

Mom of ADHD kid here. Kids like ours are discouraged from discussing any mental health or learning disabilities in college applications. The fact that you have $25K to throw at helping your kid is another strike against them. When colleges say they want to hear stories of adversity, they want to hear that you were a drug addict, your kid grew up in a trailer without running water or electricity, and the kid worked at a Dollar General to put food on the table for their six siblings. THAT’S a great college application.

True enough. But I don’t wish my kid grew up in a trailer without running water, do you? You wouldn’t trade your kid’s circumstances for that kid in the trailer’s, so clearly you don’t think that other kid is going to have a better life just because he got a bump in college admissions. I am perfectly happy knowing trailer kid gets a few more admissions points than my kid. It would be blind and hypocritical not to.

+1000

If you are posting on DCUM, it's HIGHLY likely that you are more privileged than many in this world. You likely have running water, live in a house/apartment. So while it may seem like you are not privileged, compared to many you are. It's all relative.

Anonymous wrote:For those of us who make too much to qualify for any aid but can't save 250k plus per kid, the choices end up being a solid state school which are becoming increasingly hard to get into. And not cheap just a little bit more affordable. Tuition of many public universities in VA are still pricey.

So search out private schools that will give merit. They exist in the T50-100. Find one that your kid is at/above the 75% and acceptance rate over 40-50% and you might be surprised. That $60K/year school might end up being only $20-30K. A great alternative if you can't get into your state flagship. Need more merit, then find one where your kid is at 90%+ and has acceptance rate over 40-50%

Anonymous wrote:"Yeah WTF a major goal of mind as a parent is to ensure my kids DO NOT experience adversity and now I’m hearing I shouldn’t have done that."

It's not that your kid is disadvantaged in admissions for not experiencing diversity. It's that any kid who has parents with college degrees who can live in a great neighborhood, send them to strong high schools, and provide them with expensive enrichment programs from the time they're babies, should be able to do really well in high school academically. They should be able to demonstrate mastery and eventually leadership in multiple activities. The UMC kids in the DMV have more resources thrown at them than any group of humans throughout history, for goodness sake. So, they should be the brightest stars imaginable.

When a kid is first-gen college, URM, low-income, and maybe English as a second language, and that kid can score in range with your kid, that means that that kid has every bit as much innate and nurtured talent as your kid and then some. You probably have no idea how much inner drive and hours of work it takes for those kids to be on par with your kid, especially when the whole world has been telling them since birth that they aren't good enough because of their race.

If your kid has never gone without anything, what's their excuse for not being beyond amazing? Because those schools want amazing. Not just par for the course bright kids.

Wow, excellent post. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not really. If a kid wants to go to college they will be able to go. It may not be their first choice but that is life.

We have much bigger issues in this country than whether Larlo gets into the state flagship her parents think she deserves bc she had x EC and x stats.

This is mostly a UMC class anxiety issue.

Agreed. In other countries, if your kid does not have top test scores or is not in the top of the class, they don’t go to college. Period. Americans are so lucky they live in a country where even an average student can go to college.

BS. They just don't go to the top college. They do get to go to *a* college.

Wrong, they don’t go to “a college”, they go to “no college”. That’s how it works in most other countries. Only the top students go to college. Everyone else chooses either trade school, work or some kind of apprenticeship. Again, we are very lucky in this country. There are so many things we take for granted and college is one of them.

Anonymous wrote:I wish colleges would stop accepted 20 percent international students, then they could take the rural trailer park kid, urban shitty school load and the dcum privileged kid.

Urban shitty school kid, bad autocorrect

I wish colleges would stop accepted 20 percent international students, then they could take the rural trailer park kid, urban shitty school load and the dcum privileged kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep. 100%

The amount of lying and marketing oneself and trying to show you have some trauma or special adversity or belong to some outlier group so you can curry favor to Admin officers. It's gross.

And the fake non-profits and the no standards at times with overinflated gpas and no test results.

It's really gotten so out of hand given the sheer volume of applicants universities now face.

I swear it should be changed to this:

Everyone that meets certain requirements all get put in the hat and then they pull out admits like a lottery. At some point it's just too much.

All of these actions are based on heresy, mostly from parents who are just as clueless as the next person. I've never heard an AO say they want trauma or non-profits. Stop believing random strangers for something this important.

Not true. The heart-string stories. A friend was an AO at a top state university and the discussions were often said of very qualified kids from MC/UMC/!% that they never had to experience adversity. They were essentially penalized for coming from functional, normal backgrounds and being neurotypical 'normal' , but exceptional kids.

Yeah WTF a major goal of mind as a parent is to ensure my kids DO NOT experience adversity and now I’m hearing I shouldn’t have done that.

So you would trade places with my kid who has experienced adversity, right? You would totally want your kid to have dyslexia and ADHD, have invested $25,000 and countless hours (and tears) over the years to be sure they can learn to read and do math. You'd take the therapy for anxiety, because being a smart kid who still fails is really hard. But my kid is totally lucky because he's getting extra time on his SAT! He can write an essay about overcoming adversity!

You know you don't want your kid to have my kid's circumstances. And the reason you didn't let your kid grow up poor or traumatized is because you love them and want them to be well and happy, not because you thought being well was going to get them into college. Be sad that your kid can't get into the tippy top schools if you want to, but don't gaslight those of us with kids who has suffered by saying we have it lucky.

Mom of ADHD kid here. Kids like ours are discouraged from discussing any mental health or learning disabilities in college applications. The fact that you have $25K to throw at helping your kid is another strike against them. When colleges say they want to hear stories of adversity, they want to hear that you were a drug addict, your kid grew up in a trailer without running water or electricity, and the kid worked at a Dollar General to put food on the table for their six siblings. THAT’S a great college application.

True enough. But I don’t wish my kid grew up in a trailer without running water, do you? You wouldn’t trade your kid’s circumstances for that kid in the trailer’s, so clearly you don’t think that other kid is going to have a better life just because he got a bump in college admissions. I am perfectly happy knowing trailer kid gets a few more admissions points than my kid. It would be blind and hypocritical not to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally agree. Although it seems rough, I think countries that base it all on one exam have a system that makes more sense. Set a lower threshold for kids from below a certain income level to ensure parity.

+1 this is the way to do it, not by skin color.

Sure, let's be totally and completely objective, starting from riiiiiiiight.......now (!) -- completely ignoring the system that placed one group ahead of all the others. Reminds me of when my 4 year old used to try to race his brother to the door, but wanted to call 1-2-3 go after he was halfway to the door, before his brother even knew there was gonna be a race.

Stop. This is just ridiculous. I’m white. Came from a poor, very dysfunctional family. I’m a victim of abuse. I went to college and made something of myself. The beautiful thing about the United States is that it can be done. Stop being a victim and focus on moving forward. There are more opportunities than ever before for minorities.

For those of us who make too much to qualify for any aid but can't save 250k plus per kid, the choices end up being a solid state school which are becoming increasingly hard to get into. And not cheap just a little bit more affordable. Tuition of many public universities in VA are still pricey.

Anonymous wrote:Your mistake was believing that "holistic" takes precedence over stats.

There is no secret, OP. Kids need a strong GPA, strong ACT/SAT and AP exam scores, interesting or at least consistent extra-curriculars, and essays that are customized to each college... if they want to have every chance of getting into one in which their stats are in the *top third of admitted students*.

The holistic part either serves when similar profiles need to be thinned; or when they reject otherwise standard applications to make room for someone with a highly unusual life story.

This probably bears repeating.