Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am genuinely shocked about people referring to a melting pot.

I am OLD and even I remember waaaay back in the 80s talking about how the US isn't a melting pot - that was an antiquated and stupid analogy. Instead, we could think of the US as a salad bowl, where every piece retains it's own unique flavors and comes together as one better whole.

I've also read through most of nine pages and have yet to understand exactly what the OP is worried about or what she considers "woke". I get she doesn't like Kendi. OK, fair enough. Reasonable people can disagree about any specific person or idea. But not sure where the lead comes from there to some larger "wokeness" she's concerned about.

I am confused about this also. I consider myself left of middle and don’t always agree with specific policies of the party, especially at the local level. But I just can’t get into bashing “wokeness” as some vague concept. It would be really helpful to know why OP feels like she doesn’t fit into her woke private school community. What has happened that makes you feel like you don’t fit in?

Perhaps the rub is that controversial and one-sided theories like kendi, gender fluidity, CRT, identity labels, trans jazz Jennings books, and other revisionist takes were supplanted into k-8 weekly curricula with no debate, context or age appropriateness. it’s one thing to layer that in a high school history class, it’s another to spend months per year in grades k-8 on it. The brainwashing agenda is clear, and the divisiveness rapidly erodes the fabric of society.

And the older kids are now eye rolling it. And failing grammar and math tests.

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. I believe in diversity and equity. The way it is pushed these days is more like a religion where other opinions are not allowed (look at the Hamline University debacle.. I am muslim and every muslim I know thinks what happens is insane). I am a person who is an admirer of Edward Said's book Orientalism as well as the People's History of the United States. I am Arab so am staunchly anti-imperialist. But I think schools have gone overboard. Also there is very little critique of class. I get it - they are private schools. But it is hypocritical to be pushing all of this and ignore the class aspect.

My kids are young - Kindergarten and first grade so they haven't been exposed to a lot of this yet. But I am worried that there is some indoctrination going on.

Sounds like you would be happy for your kids to be taught about the specific type of oppression that has affected people of your ethnicity/religion. But you chafe at having to think about any injustice that doesn't affect you personally (or a group you identify with).

Maybe think about why that is

Not really. The "People's History of the United States" talks about oppression of the various minority groups in the US. I also mentioned in a separate post that I am a big fan of Cornell West and Reverend Barbar who focus mostly on anti-black racism within the US and income inequality. Also really like James Baldwin. The problem is that you can't understand why a person who is against colonialism, racism etc. is also against this new progressive ideology. There is a huge difference between Cornell West and Kendi. The difference between the two is why I just can't stand this new DEI crap.

More power to you, OP! I’m African American and it drives me crazy that people think I must be alt right or something if I don’t like Kendi, as if he represents some sort of gospel of black intellectual thought. Plenty of black people have better takes on racism than Kendi. But their takes tend to me more complicated (as the truth often is) and less amenable to DEI buzz word reduction.

OP here. Thanks PP! Yes exactly! The problem with Kendi are that his takes are too simplistic and reductive. There are so many people with better takes out there that are just regular people who aren't making money off of their takes.

Not sure how this is possible as I'm not a Christian believer but I'm 100% convinced that Jesus had Kendi and fellow wokes in mind when, during the Sermon on the Mount, he (supposedly) said:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

Actually he had the Evangelicals in mind, who claim to be Christians, but then support ideology diametrically opposed to Christianity

Actually Evangelicals and Wokes are very similar to each other in beliefs and attitudes, simply changing a few keywords here and there.

As opposed to actual Liberals and post-enlightenment thinkers.

Yep both are quite simplistic in their thinking and love painting the world as black and white.

bOtH sIdEs

Only one side has actually caused significant damage to our country. Exactly who is "woke" and how much miney are they raising? What is the organization or organizations? Who is part of their movement? I am all ears on this, particularly as compared to the Evangelicals, who have hijacked our country and sending it off a cliff.

Oh mean Soros money? Or the public schools buying curricula from LGBTQIA2+ activist groups circa 2020?

OP here. Both groups are sending the country off the cliff. People in my country think that American progressives are insane (they obviously can't stand the right but they don't ridicule them just hate them). This article from The Nation makes very good points. If the World Cup showed anything, its that the rest of the world is moving on from the US. https://www.thenation.com/article/world/world-cup-2022-qatar/

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's "woke"? Believing minorities deserve the same opportunities and protections as whites? Count me in. That people can love who they want and identify as they want without harassment or ridicule or fear? Count me in. That all people can worship the god they believe in without exclusion? Count me in. Or even that women should earn as much as men and have all the same opportunities? Count me in.

47 genders?

OP here. I agree with all of what you said but then you have the problem of the 47 genders that PP responding to you mentioned lol. The problem is that this ideology has gone too far and is completely divorced from reality. People in my home country look at the US as a country filled with crazies (from both sides of the ideological spectrum).

Wokeness in general is divorced from reality and a war on Mother Nature. Mother Nature always wins in the end which explains the seething rage beneath the surface.

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Anonymous wrote:I am genuinely shocked about people referring to a melting pot.

I am OLD and even I remember waaaay back in the 80s talking about how the US isn't a melting pot - that was an antiquated and stupid analogy. Instead, we could think of the US as a salad bowl, where every piece retains it's own unique flavors and comes together as one better whole.

I've also read through most of nine pages and have yet to understand exactly what the OP is worried about or what she considers "woke". I get she doesn't like Kendi. OK, fair enough. Reasonable people can disagree about any specific person or idea. But not sure where the lead comes from there to some larger "wokeness" she's concerned about.

If you're OLD you probably don't have K12 kids right now and have not seen the insane indoctrination going on in many DC schools.

You'd be surprised. Ask OP.

I actually have middle schoolers and high schoolers right now (yup - I was an old first time mom)
And many people have asked for examples, but haven't really gotten much.

Are people being obtuse or do they really just not understand? One of the many examples of out of control wokeness would be what recently happened at Hamlin college.

OP here. Yeah I mentioned it because it resonated with me as a Muslim. In the Arab world people would have thought the painting was weird, maybe a bit interesting and surprising, probably disagreed with it and then moved on. You see this with CAIR's response too. Also so many Muslim academics (many of them pretty conservative e.g. Yaqeen institute types and Jonathan Brown who is Hanbali thought the entire thing was absurd). And yes I know its a college but its a reflection of what is happening generally. I honestly don't have any specific examples from our school other than what I mentioned in 01/18/2023 15:28. Nothing specific happened, it's just based on the language the school is using, I can predict where they are heading.

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. I believe in diversity and equity. The way it is pushed these days is more like a religion where other opinions are not allowed (look at the Hamline University debacle.. I am muslim and every muslim I know thinks what happens is insane). I am a person who is an admirer of Edward Said's book Orientalism as well as the People's History of the United States. I am Arab so am staunchly anti-imperialist. But I think schools have gone overboard. Also there is very little critique of class. I get it - they are private schools. But it is hypocritical to be pushing all of this and ignore the class aspect.

My kids are young - Kindergarten and first grade so they haven't been exposed to a lot of this yet. But I am worried that there is some indoctrination going on.

Sounds like you would be happy for your kids to be taught about the specific type of oppression that has affected people of your ethnicity/religion. But you chafe at having to think about any injustice that doesn't affect you personally (or a group you identify with).

Maybe think about why that is

Not really. The "People's History of the United States" talks about oppression of the various minority groups in the US. I also mentioned in a separate post that I am a big fan of Cornell West and Reverend Barbar who focus mostly on anti-black racism within the US and income inequality. Also really like James Baldwin. The problem is that you can't understand why a person who is against colonialism, racism etc. is also against this new progressive ideology. There is a huge difference between Cornell West and Kendi. The difference between the two is why I just can't stand this new DEI crap.

More power to you, OP! I’m African American and it drives me crazy that people think I must be alt right or something if I don’t like Kendi, as if he represents some sort of gospel of black intellectual thought. Plenty of black people have better takes on racism than Kendi. But their takes tend to me more complicated (as the truth often is) and less amenable to DEI buzz word reduction.

OP here. Thanks PP! Yes exactly! The problem with Kendi are that his takes are too simplistic and reductive. There are so many people with better takes out there that are just regular people who aren't making money off of their takes.

Not sure how this is possible as I'm not a Christian believer but I'm 100% convinced that Jesus had Kendi and fellow wokes in mind when, during the Sermon on the Mount, he (supposedly) said:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

OP here. Omg so true! Not Christian either but Jesus said a lot of good stuff

Jesus preached kindness and forgiving because he knows human nature is about power and greed.

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. I believe in diversity and equity. The way it is pushed these days is more like a religion where other opinions are not allowed (look at the Hamline University debacle.. I am muslim and every muslim I know thinks what happens is insane). I am a person who is an admirer of Edward Said's book Orientalism as well as the People's History of the United States. I am Arab so am staunchly anti-imperialist. But I think schools have gone overboard. Also there is very little critique of class. I get it - they are private schools. But it is hypocritical to be pushing all of this and ignore the class aspect.

My kids are young - Kindergarten and first grade so they haven't been exposed to a lot of this yet. But I am worried that there is some indoctrination going on.

Sounds like you would be happy for your kids to be taught about the specific type of oppression that has affected people of your ethnicity/religion. But you chafe at having to think about any injustice that doesn't affect you personally (or a group you identify with).

Maybe think about why that is

Not really. The "People's History of the United States" talks about oppression of the various minority groups in the US. I also mentioned in a separate post that I am a big fan of Cornell West and Reverend Barbar who focus mostly on anti-black racism within the US and income inequality. Also really like James Baldwin. The problem is that you can't understand why a person who is against colonialism, racism etc. is also against this new progressive ideology. There is a huge difference between Cornell West and Kendi. The difference between the two is why I just can't stand this new DEI crap.

More power to you, OP! I’m African American and it drives me crazy that people think I must be alt right or something if I don’t like Kendi, as if he represents some sort of gospel of black intellectual thought. Plenty of black people have better takes on racism than Kendi. But their takes tend to me more complicated (as the truth often is) and less amenable to DEI buzz word reduction.

OP here. Thanks PP! Yes exactly! The problem with Kendi are that his takes are too simplistic and reductive. There are so many people with better takes out there that are just regular people who aren't making money off of their takes.

Not sure how this is possible as I'm not a Christian believer but I'm 100% convinced that Jesus had Kendi and fellow wokes in mind when, during the Sermon on the Mount, he (supposedly) said:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

Actually he had the Evangelicals in mind, who claim to be Christians, but then support ideology diametrically opposed to Christianity

Actually Evangelicals and Wokes are very similar to each other in beliefs and attitudes, simply changing a few keywords here and there.

As opposed to actual Liberals and post-enlightenment thinkers.

Yep both are quite simplistic in their thinking and love painting the world as black and white.

bOtH sIdEs

Only one side has actually caused significant damage to our country. Exactly who is "woke" and how much miney are they raising? What is the organization or organizations? Who is part of their movement? I am all ears on this, particularly as compared to the Evangelicals, who have hijacked our country and sending it off a cliff.

Oh mean Soros money? Or the public schools buying curricula from LGBTQIA2+ activist groups circa 2020?

Anonymous wrote:I am genuinely shocked about people referring to a melting pot.

I am OLD and even I remember waaaay back in the 80s talking about how the US isn't a melting pot - that was an antiquated and stupid analogy. Instead, we could think of the US as a salad bowl, where every piece retains it's own unique flavors and comes together as one better whole.

I've also read through most of nine pages and have yet to understand exactly what the OP is worried about or what she considers "woke". I get she doesn't like Kendi. OK, fair enough. Reasonable people can disagree about any specific person or idea. But not sure where the lead comes from there to some larger "wokeness" she's concerned about.

It was a melting pot in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s:

You were sent home and told to come back when you knew English. You learned it at home in 3 mos. So did your mom

Everyone played baseball outside in the parks until called in for dinner, in every language.

School spirit and sense of community reigned

Two parent households more common, as was dressing up on weekends.

Then Community broke down and crime spread, suburbs then prospered and places like balto, south side chicago, etc never regained their status or safety or working class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am genuinely shocked about people referring to a melting pot.

I am OLD and even I remember waaaay back in the 80s talking about how the US isn't a melting pot - that was an antiquated and stupid analogy. Instead, we could think of the US as a salad bowl, where every piece retains it's own unique flavors and comes together as one better whole.

I've also read through most of nine pages and have yet to understand exactly what the OP is worried about or what she considers "woke". I get she doesn't like Kendi. OK, fair enough. Reasonable people can disagree about any specific person or idea. But not sure where the lead comes from there to some larger "wokeness" she's concerned about.

I gave a specific example here. I am not dying of worry. If I were I wouldn't be posting on DCUM. I am just generally concerned over the direction that some schools are taking (though they are just a reflection of the country in general). I shared an article by Matt Yglesias (who by the way I have many issues with but that's for another day) that wasn't alarmist or anything but made a couple of good points and that I generally agreed with. If you read my response in 01/18/2023 15:28 (for some reason the quotes are hidden) you will get what I'm complaining about. Again I'm not dying of worry. Just coming here in the hope of sparking an interesting discussion and the discussion is definitely interesting! So thanks all for participating.

DP. I looked back and your post didn’t actually come through unless you click on the quote. Well I have to say that the one specific concern you mentioned an actually seems… pretty minor, especially if you believe as you say that such concepts are real. You would really pull your kids out of their school for this? Sorry I can’t be more sympathetic. It’s just that my DD has faced actual racial bullying (I am the poster moving from public to private) and I would certainly welcome a little more wokeness in her environment. I also would urge you to reconsider whether you are really that much of an outsider as you are imagining. Again, it’s easy to imagine everyone is either a maga fool or rushing to defund police based on media impressions. But I have found actual fellow liberal parents (and even conservative parents 😉) are much more reasonable and moderate than the picture often painted.

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Anonymous wrote:What's "woke"? Believing minorities deserve the same opportunities and protections as whites? Count me in. That people can love who they want and identify as they want without harassment or ridicule or fear? Count me in. That all people can worship the god they believe in without exclusion? Count me in. Or even that women should earn as much as men and have all the same opportunities? Count me in.

47 genders?

OP here. I agree with all of what you said but then you have the problem of the 47 genders that PP responding to you mentioned lol. The problem is that this ideology has gone too far and is completely divorced from reality. People in my home country look at the US as a country filled with crazies (from both sides of the ideological spectrum).

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am genuinely shocked about people referring to a melting pot.

I am OLD and even I remember waaaay back in the 80s talking about how the US isn't a melting pot - that was an antiquated and stupid analogy. Instead, we could think of the US as a salad bowl, where every piece retains it's own unique flavors and comes together as one better whole.

I've also read through most of nine pages and have yet to understand exactly what the OP is worried about or what she considers "woke". I get she doesn't like Kendi. OK, fair enough. Reasonable people can disagree about any specific person or idea. But not sure where the lead comes from there to some larger "wokeness" she's concerned about.

If you're OLD you probably don't have K12 kids right now and have not seen the insane indoctrination going on in many DC schools.

You'd be surprised. Ask OP.

I actually have middle schoolers and high schoolers right now (yup - I was an old first time mom)
And many people have asked for examples, but haven't really gotten much.

Are people being obtuse or do they really just not understand? One of the many examples of out of control wokeness would be what recently happened at Hamlin college.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, even though we have disagreed on some points, you seem like a very thoughtful and interesting person. I wish I knew you in real life. I love much of what you said, even though I’m more in the DEI camp (mostly because there will be some elite “secret language” signaling no matter the dominant cultural norm is and I prefer DEI —with its capacity to also actually do some good— to the casual elite misogyny and racism of past decades). I hope whatever your kids end up that they have a great educational experience.

Haha thanks PP! Not sure which PP you are but I would love to have these discussions in real life. What I loved about college the most (and I fear that its not the case anymore) is that I could have these heated debates but then we can all go hang out afterwards like nothing happened. Represents what I love about America and what I fear is disappearing.

I keep telling people that I was "woke" (and like I said before, I understand the term has taken on its own meaning) before being woke was cool lol lol. But then it got to be too much even for me. Again the quote I keep posting (with my caveats) really explains my issue with what's going on.

Also, can you tell, I can't focus on work today? lol lol

It is only too much because it has been hijacked and weaponized by the right. Don't fall for it (though you seem to be)

No. That's not my problem with it. Like I said I am a fan of Barber and Cornell West but not a fan of Kendi. I am a fan of Edward Said but not a fan of Kendi. I am a fan of Baldwin but not a fan of Kendi. I am a fan of Chomsky but not a fan of Kendi. I am a fan of countless leftists and thinkers from the "global south" (I put south in quotation marks because the term doesn't make sense georgraphically) but am not a fan of Kendi. I can keep going lol.

So maybe the problem is you are overhyping Kendi in the pantheon of writers, and given him much more space than anyone else is, certainly anyone reading this.

OP here. I'm simplfying and using Kendi to represent what I dislike about this line of thinking. It's not that I'm anti-diversity or believe that there is no racism and everything is wonderful. I am trying to distinguish the type of thinking I disagree with (that I am representing by Kendi in the above) and the type of thinking I agree with. I only use Kendi because ppl are obsessed with quoting him and quoting deangelo.

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Anonymous wrote:I am genuinely shocked about people referring to a melting pot.

I am OLD and even I remember waaaay back in the 80s talking about how the US isn't a melting pot - that was an antiquated and stupid analogy. Instead, we could think of the US as a salad bowl, where every piece retains it's own unique flavors and comes together as one better whole.

I've also read through most of nine pages and have yet to understand exactly what the OP is worried about or what she considers "woke". I get she doesn't like Kendi. OK, fair enough. Reasonable people can disagree about any specific person or idea. But not sure where the lead comes from there to some larger "wokeness" she's concerned about.

If you're OLD you probably don't have K12 kids right now and have not seen the insane indoctrination going on in many DC schools.

You'd be surprised. Ask OP.

I actually have middle schoolers and high schoolers right now (yup - I was an old first time mom)
And many people have asked for examples, but haven't really gotten much.

OK, here go a few good general articles:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-turn-liel-leibovitz

https://unherd.com/2022/11/anti-racism-attacks-my-american-dream/

https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

OP here. I mean Bari Weiss is the queen of cancel culture (when it comes to anyone who is pro-palestinian) but she brings up some good examples in her substack especially when it comes to what is going on in universities.

The second one spoke more to me and to what I;ve seen in DC.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am genuinely shocked about people referring to a melting pot.

I am OLD and even I remember waaaay back in the 80s talking about how the US isn't a melting pot - that was an antiquated and stupid analogy. Instead, we could think of the US as a salad bowl, where every piece retains it's own unique flavors and comes together as one better whole.

I've also read through most of nine pages and have yet to understand exactly what the OP is worried about or what she considers "woke". I get she doesn't like Kendi. OK, fair enough. Reasonable people can disagree about any specific person or idea. But not sure where the lead comes from there to some larger "wokeness" she's concerned about.

If you're OLD you probably don't have K12 kids right now and have not seen the insane indoctrination going on in many DC schools.

You'd be surprised. Ask OP.

I actually have middle schoolers and high schoolers right now (yup - I was an old first time mom)
And many people have asked for examples, but haven't really gotten much.

OK, here go a few good general articles:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-turn-liel-leibovitz

https://unherd.com/2022/11/anti-racism-attacks-my-american-dream/

https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

So to be clear, you still don't have any examples from your kids' school

Just to be clear, the above poster isn't me, the OP. Please see my response in 01/18/2023 17:04

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Anonymous wrote:I am genuinely shocked about people referring to a melting pot.

I am OLD and even I remember waaaay back in the 80s talking about how the US isn't a melting pot - that was an antiquated and stupid analogy. Instead, we could think of the US as a salad bowl, where every piece retains it's own unique flavors and comes together as one better whole.

I've also read through most of nine pages and have yet to understand exactly what the OP is worried about or what she considers "woke". I get she doesn't like Kendi. OK, fair enough. Reasonable people can disagree about any specific person or idea. But not sure where the lead comes from there to some larger "wokeness" she's concerned about.

If you're OLD you probably don't have K12 kids right now and have not seen the insane indoctrination going on in many DC schools.

You'd be surprised. Ask OP.

I actually have middle schoolers and high schoolers right now (yup - I was an old first time mom)
And many people have asked for examples, but haven't really gotten much.

OK, here go a few good general articles:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-turn-liel-leibovitz

https://unherd.com/2022/11/anti-racism-attacks-my-american-dream/

https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

So to be clear, you still don't have any examples from your kids' school

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Anonymous wrote:I am genuinely shocked about people referring to a melting pot.

I am OLD and even I remember waaaay back in the 80s talking about how the US isn't a melting pot - that was an antiquated and stupid analogy. Instead, we could think of the US as a salad bowl, where every piece retains it's own unique flavors and comes together as one better whole.

I've also read through most of nine pages and have yet to understand exactly what the OP is worried about or what she considers "woke". I get she doesn't like Kendi. OK, fair enough. Reasonable people can disagree about any specific person or idea. But not sure where the lead comes from there to some larger "wokeness" she's concerned about.

I gave a specific example here. I am not dying of worry. If I were I wouldn't be posting on DCUM. I am just generally concerned over the direction that some schools are taking (though they are just a reflection of the country in general). I shared an article by Matt Yglesias (who by the way I have many issues with but that's for another day) that wasn't alarmist or anything but made a couple of good points and that I generally agreed with. If you read my response in 01/18/2023 15:28 (for some reason the quotes are hidden) you will get what I'm complaining about. Again I'm not dying of worry. Just coming here in the hope of sparking an interesting discussion and the discussion is definitely interesting! So thanks all for participating.

OP here. Just reread what I wrote and I forgot to edit. Ignore the first sentence of my response.