Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If we go with that-- that the West Wing is an exclusion zone for normal handling procedures-- then the case against Trump doesnt make sense.

I agree, the initial part of the case against Trump doesn't make sense. But everything Trump did since initially learning that NARA wanted the documents? That part of the case still makes sense.

No one involved disputes that Trump's attorney was in the process of arranging for the return of the documents at the time of the raid.

So, the behavior of Biden and Trump are the same. The actions of the DOJ are different.

Perhaps politics may be at play?

DOJ most certainly disputes that.

What did Biden know? And when did he know it?

Anonymous wrote:I believe this is a Democratic setup. Kamala (or someone in her camp) planted the documents in order to push Biden out.

And we thought all the crazy was on the R side.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are starting to connect the dots.

This whole thing is about to unravel.

https://news.yahoo.com/house-democrat-suggests-classified-documents-151813696.html

One person wonders.

This sounds like paranoid conspiracy theorizing and excuse making.

I believe this is a Democratic setup. Kamala (or someone in her camp) planted the documents in order to push Biden out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If we go with that-- that the West Wing is an exclusion zone for normal handling procedures-- then the case against Trump doesnt make sense.

I agree, the initial part of the case against Trump doesn't make sense. But everything Trump did since initially learning that NARA wanted the documents? That part of the case still makes sense.

No one involved disputes that Trump's attorney was in the process of arranging for the return of the documents at the time of the raid.

So, the behavior of Biden and Trump are the same. The actions of the DOJ are different.

Perhaps politics may be at play?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If we go with that-- that the West Wing is an exclusion zone for normal handling procedures-- then the case against Trump doesnt make sense.

I agree, the initial part of the case against Trump doesn't make sense. But everything Trump did since initially learning that NARA wanted the documents? That part of the case still makes sense.

There was no initial case against Trump. When it all started, NARA was just requesting the records back. If he had just handed them over, that would have been the end of it. There is zero chance there would ever have been criminal charges against him in that case. It spiraled into a criminal investigation because he refused to give them back, then defied a subpoena, and lied a bunch of times about what he had taken.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The second cache of documents, in Biden's garage, were not voluntarily turned over. There is no difference.

They weren’t turned over voluntarily because Joe clearly didn’t know they were there! Do you actually believe he’d store classified documents in a garage?!?!

This is further proof that these documents were planted specifically so they could be “discovered”. No different than a cop planting a bag of drugs in a car so he can make an arrest. It’s a classic law enforcement trick.

It's even worse that Biden doesnt even know he has classified documents at various locations. You see how that is worse, right? He cant secure them bc he doesnt even know-- if you believe him-- that he has them, since he apparently casually pockets classified documents and takes them home with enough regularity it doesnt lodge in his memory.

Because . . . . it is plausible someone else with clearance removed the docs (staff) or, you know, it was over 6 years ago. Do you remember everything you did 6 years ago? If so, kudos to you for being superior. I'm far younger than Biden and I can sometimes not remember things from last week, much less 6 years ago.

So, no, it's not worse.

That makes sense with the documents found in his office. This is much less plausible for the top secret documents found in his garage, next to his corvette, in an envelope labeled "personal and confidential." Classified documents are required to be double wrapped and the outer wrapping (envelope or whatever) has to be labeled with the classification. So someone went out of their way to conceal the documents as personal effects and then in his garage. Either there is a vast right wing conspiracy against Biden, as a pp suggested, or Biden or someone in Biden's camp essentially concealed and smugggled out of a SCIF and into Biden's garage.

These are BY FAR from the only two options, neither of which I believe.

Anonymous wrote:Given that for far worse breaches involving classified documents, Trump has faced zero consequences and is currently the GOP's top contender to run for 2024.

That invalidates anything anyone could ever say about Biden.

Correct.

Anonymous wrote:
If we go with that-- that the West Wing is an exclusion zone for normal handling procedures-- then the case against Trump doesnt make sense.

I agree, the initial part of the case against Trump doesn't make sense. But everything Trump did since initially learning that NARA wanted the documents? That part of the case still makes sense.

Anonymous wrote:I voted for Biden and was happy he won. Except for Border issue, he has done a great job so far. But I am appalled to read that a second set of highly classified documents were located in Biden’s garage in his Delaware home. In my opinion, Trump should be charged and prosecuted for his criminal behavior with classified documents. Likewise, Biden should be investigated to get to the bottom of his mishandling of classified documents. In the meantime, in my opinion, the honorable thing for Biden to do is to step aside and let Kamala Harris be acting POTUS. Any ordinary citizen would have been in handcuffs by now

With all due respect OP, this issue is just a total abstraction for about 99.9% of Americans. Not saying it’s not important. It just has no discernible effect whatsoever on Americans’ day-to-day lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That makes sense with the documents found in his office. This is much less plausible for the top secret documents found in his garage, next to his corvette, in an envelope labeled "personal and confidential." Classified documents are required to be double wrapped and the outer wrapping (envelope or whatever) has to be labeled with the classification. So someone went out of their way to conceal the documents as personal effects and then in his garage. Either there is a vast right wing conspiracy against Biden, as a pp suggested, or Biden or someone in Biden's camp essentially concealed and smugggled out of a SCIF and into Biden's garage.

I've never been to a West Wing office, but I have a feeling that people like POTUS or VP don't head downstairs to the Situation Room every time they need to read something classified. So it seems inevitable that there would be some improper mixing of classified documents and personal effects, and improper storage leads to improper packing, which leads to the even more improper storage in the garage.

Hanlon's Razor, really.

If we go with that-- that the West Wing is an exclusion zone for normal handling procedures-- then the case against Trump doesnt make sense.

Typically, only SCIFs have mixed use, intermingling of various classifications. In offices of executives, the documents are usually dropped off in a binder or folder-- but increasingly on a classified digital device. All the rules apply-- the material cant be left unattended, must br properly secured, etc.

But let's wargame this. The executive and maybe a couple aids are reading the documents in an office. At what point is it in any way normal to decide to fold up the document, place it in an envelope, write "personal and confidential" on it, and throw it in a pile of personal effects?

There isnt enough information to prove Biden did this. But someone did. And it somehow got into Biden's garage. It isnt a minor thing.

Anonymous wrote:
That makes sense with the documents found in his office. This is much less plausible for the top secret documents found in his garage, next to his corvette, in an envelope labeled "personal and confidential." Classified documents are required to be double wrapped and the outer wrapping (envelope or whatever) has to be labeled with the classification. So someone went out of their way to conceal the documents as personal effects and then in his garage. Either there is a vast right wing conspiracy against Biden, as a pp suggested, or Biden or someone in Biden's camp essentially concealed and smugggled out of a SCIF and into Biden's garage.

I've never been to a West Wing office, but I have a feeling that people like POTUS or VP don't head downstairs to the Situation Room every time they need to read something classified. So it seems inevitable that there would be some improper mixing of classified documents and personal effects, and improper storage leads to improper packing, which leads to the even more improper storage in the garage.

Hanlon's Razor, really.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The second cache of documents, in Biden's garage, were not voluntarily turned over. There is no difference.

They weren’t turned over voluntarily because Joe clearly didn’t know they were there! Do you actually believe he’d store classified documents in a garage?!?!

This is further proof that these documents were planted specifically so they could be “discovered”. No different than a cop planting a bag of drugs in a car so he can make an arrest. It’s a classic law enforcement trick.

It's even worse that Biden doesnt even know he has classified documents at various locations. You see how that is worse, right? He cant secure them bc he doesnt even know-- if you believe him-- that he has them, since he apparently casually pockets classified documents and takes them home with enough regularity it doesnt lodge in his memory.

Because . . . . it is plausible someone else with clearance removed the docs (staff) or, you know, it was over 6 years ago. Do you remember everything you did 6 years ago? If so, kudos to you for being superior. I'm far younger than Biden and I can sometimes not remember things from last week, much less 6 years ago.

So, no, it's not worse.

That makes sense with the documents found in his office. This is much less plausible for the top secret documents found in his garage, next to his corvette, in an envelope labeled "personal and confidential." Classified documents are required to be double wrapped and the outer wrapping (envelope or whatever) has to be labeled with the classification. So someone went out of their way to conceal the documents as personal effects and then in his garage. Either there is a vast right wing conspiracy against Biden, as a pp suggested, or Biden or someone in Biden's camp essentially concealed and smugggled out of a SCIF and into Biden's garage.

1. The cover-up is worse than the crime. Trump tried to obfuscate, hide and lie. Infinitely worse than Biden, or any other President, should classified docs be found in their possession.

2. The fact that 1 is true does not take away that it's a bad look for Biden, and that we need a better system to preserve classified docs. The most important solution is to NOT CLASSIFY AS MANY!!! The USA classifies way too many. It's ridiculous, and completely un-sustainable.

3. If both parties could see their way to fielding younger candidates with less baggage, I'd be very happy.