Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 22:25     Subject: Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
I see the after-hour email monitoring as tracking more with individual ambition and interest in upward mobility than current salary.
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 22:05     Subject: Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Anonymous wrote:Yeah the expectation to check email 1-2 times after hours doesn't start at $1M+ in salary though.

I would argue it starts in the low six figures for white collar professionals.


PP here. I completely agree and was being snarky, but honestly was a bit shocked by many of the replies here.
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 21:48     Subject: Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Yeah the expectation to check email 1-2 times after hours doesn't start at $1M+ in salary though.

I would argue it starts in the low six figures for white collar professionals.
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 21:48     Subject: Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Today I learned my team and I don’t make enough money to have to check email outside of 9-5. Wish I would have known 10 years ago!
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 21:23     Subject: Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seriously, do you not get your work emails pushed to your phone? I find it astonishing that any white collar professional does not and if a direct report told me they don’t I would really change my view of them.


OP here. I do, but I don’t actively check them at 9pm. Moreover, I have childcare commitments in the morning. I cannot devote 24/7 to my job.


You don’t look at the alerts on your screen when you wake up?


Unless you have a work-provided cellphone or computer - with the expectation of being available 24/7- this is not reasonable. I do not have my work email on my personal phone. I have a dedicated app that rings if someone calls me during my working hours. Outside of those hours, it goes to voicemail. My direct supervisors all have my personal number should an emergency pop up specific to my job and we receive notices for emergency closing of buildings or issues with connectivity.

We have no issues meeting deliverables and are rated exceptional in every contract we have. If your company requires a response or your attention to a matter, no matter the time of day, they need shifts or a change in management.


"If your company requires a response or your attention to a matter, no matter the time of day, they need shifts or a change in management."

This is so naive, as are so many of the comments in this thread. You all are just commenting based on your narrow life experiences. Right or wrong, there are millions of people in roles where the expectation is essentially 24/7. People pursue these jobs because they usually pay a sh*t ton of money, they're adrenaline junkies, whatever. They're free to quit if they don't like it.

Whether or not it's reasonable to schedule an 8 am meeting at 9 pm or check emails outside of certain "work" hours depends entirely on industry and workplace culture.


OP's job does not (re the bolded)

No offense to the OP, neither does mine

If I were a biglaw.partner making 7 figures yeah sure that can be the expectation.
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 20:08     Subject: Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
OP thanks for coming back and providing more detail. Boss made a mistake for sure.

What's the culture at your company? Do people have work email on phones? Are they expected to check them after hours?

How senior are you? Do your peers have work email on phones/check after hours?
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 20:04     Subject: Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seriously, do you not get your work emails pushed to your phone? I find it astonishing that any white collar professional does not and if a direct report told me they don’t I would really change my view of them.


OP here. I do, but I don’t actively check them at 9pm. Moreover, I have childcare commitments in the morning. I cannot devote 24/7 to my job.


You don’t look at the alerts on your screen when you wake up?


Unless you have a work-provided cellphone or computer - with the expectation of being available 24/7- this is not reasonable. I do not have my work email on my personal phone. I have a dedicated app that rings if someone calls me during my working hours. Outside of those hours, it goes to voicemail. My direct supervisors all have my personal number should an emergency pop up specific to my job and we receive notices for emergency closing of buildings or issues with connectivity.

We have no issues meeting deliverables and are rated exceptional in every contract we have. If your company requires a response or your attention to a matter, no matter the time of day, they need shifts or a change in management.


"If your company requires a response or your attention to a matter, no matter the time of day, they need shifts or a change in management."

This is so naive, as are so many of the comments in this thread. You all are just commenting based on your narrow life experiences. Right or wrong, there are millions of people in roles where the expectation is essentially 24/7. People pursue these jobs because they usually pay a sh*t ton of money, they're adrenaline junkies, whatever. They're free to quit if they don't like it.

Whether or not it's reasonable to schedule an 8 am meeting at 9 pm or check emails outside of certain "work" hours depends entirely on industry and workplace culture.


I think it’s less that posters are naive than you’re out of date. Look at the thread on the WSJ article on this— behavior like this neither attracts nor retains talent. It’s also a big red flag for disorganization and toxic culture— like why the person who checks their email at 0600 is in non-profit work which is notorious for poor organization.


You're right. I'm so out of date. Can you let all big law firms know, and also hedge funds, IBs, etc. while you're at it?


Hey, I would check my email at 6am for hedge fund money. $160k is not hedge fund money.
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 20:00     Subject: Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seriously, do you not get your work emails pushed to your phone? I find it astonishing that any white collar professional does not and if a direct report told me they don’t I would really change my view of them.


OP here. I do, but I don’t actively check them at 9pm. Moreover, I have childcare commitments in the morning. I cannot devote 24/7 to my job.


You don’t look at the alerts on your screen when you wake up?


Unless you have a work-provided cellphone or computer - with the expectation of being available 24/7- this is not reasonable. I do not have my work email on my personal phone. I have a dedicated app that rings if someone calls me during my working hours. Outside of those hours, it goes to voicemail. My direct supervisors all have my personal number should an emergency pop up specific to my job and we receive notices for emergency closing of buildings or issues with connectivity.

We have no issues meeting deliverables and are rated exceptional in every contract we have. If your company requires a response or your attention to a matter, no matter the time of day, they need shifts or a change in management.


"If your company requires a response or your attention to a matter, no matter the time of day, they need shifts or a change in management."

This is so naive, as are so many of the comments in this thread. You all are just commenting based on your narrow life experiences. Right or wrong, there are millions of people in roles where the expectation is essentially 24/7. People pursue these jobs because they usually pay a sh*t ton of money, they're adrenaline junkies, whatever. They're free to quit if they don't like it.

Whether or not it's reasonable to schedule an 8 am meeting at 9 pm or check emails outside of certain "work" hours depends entirely on industry and workplace culture.


I think it’s less that posters are naive than you’re out of date. Look at the thread on the WSJ article on this— behavior like this neither attracts nor retains talent. It’s also a big red flag for disorganization and toxic culture— like why the person who checks their email at 0600 is in non-profit work which is notorious for poor organization.


You're right. I'm so out of date. Can you let all big law firms know, and also hedge funds, IBs, etc. while you're at it?


Here: https://www.wsj.com/articles/your-coworkers-are-less-ambitious-bosses-adjust-to-the-new-order-11672441067?st=dxf1651l72gmmec&reflink=article_copyURL_share

Basically, people aren’t willing to do a bunch of unpaid work. Which is what checking your email at 6am is.
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 19:57     Subject: Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seriously, do you not get your work emails pushed to your phone? I find it astonishing that any white collar professional does not and if a direct report told me they don’t I would really change my view of them.


OP here. I do, but I don’t actively check them at 9pm. Moreover, I have childcare commitments in the morning. I cannot devote 24/7 to my job.


You don’t look at the alerts on your screen when you wake up?


Unless you have a work-provided cellphone or computer - with the expectation of being available 24/7- this is not reasonable. I do not have my work email on my personal phone. I have a dedicated app that rings if someone calls me during my working hours. Outside of those hours, it goes to voicemail. My direct supervisors all have my personal number should an emergency pop up specific to my job and we receive notices for emergency closing of buildings or issues with connectivity.

We have no issues meeting deliverables and are rated exceptional in every contract we have. If your company requires a response or your attention to a matter, no matter the time of day, they need shifts or a change in management.


"If your company requires a response or your attention to a matter, no matter the time of day, they need shifts or a change in management."

This is so naive, as are so many of the comments in this thread. You all are just commenting based on your narrow life experiences. Right or wrong, there are millions of people in roles where the expectation is essentially 24/7. People pursue these jobs because they usually pay a sh*t ton of money, they're adrenaline junkies, whatever. They're free to quit if they don't like it.

Whether or not it's reasonable to schedule an 8 am meeting at 9 pm or check emails outside of certain "work" hours depends entirely on industry and workplace culture.


I think it’s less that posters are naive than you’re out of date. Look at the thread on the WSJ article on this— behavior like this neither attracts nor retains talent. It’s also a big red flag for disorganization and toxic culture— like why the person who checks their email at 0600 is in non-profit work which is notorious for poor organization.


You're right. I'm so out of date. Can you let all big law firms know, and also hedge funds, IBs, etc. while you're at it?


Interestingly enough, the WSJ article is all about big law…
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 19:36     Subject: Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seriously, do you not get your work emails pushed to your phone? I find it astonishing that any white collar professional does not and if a direct report told me they don’t I would really change my view of them.


OP here. I do, but I don’t actively check them at 9pm. Moreover, I have childcare commitments in the morning. I cannot devote 24/7 to my job.


You don’t look at the alerts on your screen when you wake up?


Unless you have a work-provided cellphone or computer - with the expectation of being available 24/7- this is not reasonable. I do not have my work email on my personal phone. I have a dedicated app that rings if someone calls me during my working hours. Outside of those hours, it goes to voicemail. My direct supervisors all have my personal number should an emergency pop up specific to my job and we receive notices for emergency closing of buildings or issues with connectivity.

We have no issues meeting deliverables and are rated exceptional in every contract we have. If your company requires a response or your attention to a matter, no matter the time of day, they need shifts or a change in management.


"If your company requires a response or your attention to a matter, no matter the time of day, they need shifts or a change in management."

This is so naive, as are so many of the comments in this thread. You all are just commenting based on your narrow life experiences. Right or wrong, there are millions of people in roles where the expectation is essentially 24/7. People pursue these jobs because they usually pay a sh*t ton of money, they're adrenaline junkies, whatever. They're free to quit if they don't like it.

Whether or not it's reasonable to schedule an 8 am meeting at 9 pm or check emails outside of certain "work" hours depends entirely on industry and workplace culture.


I think it’s less that posters are naive than you’re out of date. Look at the thread on the WSJ article on this— behavior like this neither attracts nor retains talent. It’s also a big red flag for disorganization and toxic culture— like why the person who checks their email at 0600 is in non-profit work which is notorious for poor organization.


You're right. I'm so out of date. Can you let all big law firms know, and also hedge funds, IBs, etc. while you're at it?
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 19:24     Subject: Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seriously, do you not get your work emails pushed to your phone? I find it astonishing that any white collar professional does not and if a direct report told me they don’t I would really change my view of them.


OP here. I do, but I don’t actively check them at 9pm. Moreover, I have childcare commitments in the morning. I cannot devote 24/7 to my job.


You don’t look at the alerts on your screen when you wake up?


Unless you have a work-provided cellphone or computer - with the expectation of being available 24/7- this is not reasonable. I do not have my work email on my personal phone. I have a dedicated app that rings if someone calls me during my working hours. Outside of those hours, it goes to voicemail. My direct supervisors all have my personal number should an emergency pop up specific to my job and we receive notices for emergency closing of buildings or issues with connectivity.

We have no issues meeting deliverables and are rated exceptional in every contract we have. If your company requires a response or your attention to a matter, no matter the time of day, they need shifts or a change in management.


"If your company requires a response or your attention to a matter, no matter the time of day, they need shifts or a change in management."

This is so naive, as are so many of the comments in this thread. You all are just commenting based on your narrow life experiences. Right or wrong, there are millions of people in roles where the expectation is essentially 24/7. People pursue these jobs because they usually pay a sh*t ton of money, they're adrenaline junkies, whatever. They're free to quit if they don't like it.

Whether or not it's reasonable to schedule an 8 am meeting at 9 pm or check emails outside of certain "work" hours depends entirely on industry and workplace culture.


I think it’s less that posters are naive than you’re out of date. Look at the thread on the WSJ article on this— behavior like this neither attracts nor retains talent. It’s also a big red flag for disorganization and toxic culture— like why the person who checks their email at 0600 is in non-profit work which is notorious for poor organization.
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 19:18     Subject: Re:Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That's frustrating, OP.

I've learned that while I'm pouring my morning cup of coffee to quickly check my work calendar to see what meetings I have that day. Doing that at 6am means I can see if anything popped up after I got offline the night before. My boss is one who often works at 10pm so this could totally happen to me.


I can’t just adjust last minute though, since I have to drop off my daughter. If I had known even during the day yesterday, I could have made arrangements.


I hear you but at least you could have declined the meeting rather than not knowing about it at all.


Fair enough. I guess I now need to be one of those people who is checking email at all hours. So much for work-life balance!


You asked for this by begging to work from home. Enjoy!


How does WAH vs WOH change a 9pm email?


Because she's be at work at 8 am otherwise, not dropping off her kid. You don't get work-life balance working from home, sorry!


How narrow-minded do you have to be to assume that work must start at 8am. It just depends on the industry - 8am would be an egregiously late start for a trading desk, and an incredibly early start for NY big law.


Again, you don't get work-life balance working from home. You all begged for it, and now you're reaping what you've sowed. Cry me a river.


Why the hostility? Honestly. So someone who works 5 minutes from the office and goes home for lunch and to walk their dog is allowed work-life balance or is it just that if you NEVER come into the office then you dont get to have a personal life? Does my personal life only get to fit inside the time that was once my commute and I am beholden to the office outside of that?

Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 18:04     Subject: Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Ugh I am a Fed and this exact situation has happened to me and yes, i felt like an idiot not attending, but I fall back on the invite was sent after hours and I don't start work until 8:30 and am doing non-work stuff like taking kids to school at 8am. You didn't do anything wrong OP. Just send a note similar to what the PP suggested that you didn't see the invite until you began work at 8:30. You feel like a dolt for a brief period of time and then it passes. I also think people scheduling 8am meetings after 9pm the night before have time management problems and clearly aren't managing their own workflow very well.
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 15:00     Subject: Re:Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That's frustrating, OP.

I've learned that while I'm pouring my morning cup of coffee to quickly check my work calendar to see what meetings I have that day. Doing that at 6am means I can see if anything popped up after I got offline the night before. My boss is one who often works at 10pm so this could totally happen to me.


I can’t just adjust last minute though, since I have to drop off my daughter. If I had known even during the day yesterday, I could have made arrangements.


I hear you but at least you could have declined the meeting rather than not knowing about it at all.


Fair enough. I guess I now need to be one of those people who is checking email at all hours. So much for work-life balance!


You asked for this by begging to work from home. Enjoy!


How does WAH vs WOH change a 9pm email?


Because she's be at work at 8 am otherwise, not dropping off her kid. You don't get work-life balance working from home, sorry!


How narrow-minded do you have to be to assume that work must start at 8am. It just depends on the industry - 8am would be an egregiously late start for a trading desk, and an incredibly early start for NY big law.


Again, you don't get work-life balance working from home. You all begged for it, and now you're reaping what you've sowed. Cry me a river.
Anonymous
Post 01/05/2023 14:52     Subject: Re:Meeting invite for 8am meeting sent at 9pm the night before
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That's frustrating, OP.

I've learned that while I'm pouring my morning cup of coffee to quickly check my work calendar to see what meetings I have that day. Doing that at 6am means I can see if anything popped up after I got offline the night before. My boss is one who often works at 10pm so this could totally happen to me.


I can’t just adjust last minute though, since I have to drop off my daughter. If I had known even during the day yesterday, I could have made arrangements.


I hear you but at least you could have declined the meeting rather than not knowing about it at all.


Fair enough. I guess I now need to be one of those people who is checking email at all hours. So much for work-life balance!


You asked for this by begging to work from home. Enjoy!


How does WAH vs WOH change a 9pm email?


Because she's be at work at 8 am otherwise, not dropping off her kid. You don't get work-life balance working from home, sorry!


How narrow-minded do you have to be to assume that work must start at 8am. It just depends on the industry - 8am would be an egregiously late start for a trading desk, and an incredibly early start for NY big law.