Anonymous wrote:These responses have become unmoored from the actual incident. Here’s the OP:

“Things that I find common that the kids do irk and trigger anger for DH and we’ve decided to start counseling to work on our communication and be better parents. In the latest incident, DH grabbed DD because she was screaming inside and wouldn’t stop after repeatedly being asked. He left marks on her”

So what do we have here? Irked. Angered. Asked daughter multiple times verbally to stop. Grabbed daughter. Daughter has “marks,” don’t know how hard or what kind vs whether these were just the brief red transient type you’d expect when a man grabs a child. Couple is now in mutually agreed upon voluntary therapy to improve communication and parenting. Both parents being open and honest.

That’s it. That’s all. If you think this warrants a formal agency investigation by an agency whose job it is to —surprise! recommend parenting classes & therapy they themselves just initiated —and remand children to foster care you yourself should be investigated. There is no way someone with half a brain would lose their license over not reporting this.

Bolded the serious warning signs. I would report this. If he’s so committed to therapy and change a CPS recommendation for therapy will do him no harm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op: number one rule. Never, I repeat never talk to the Man.
(The po po, fuzz, etc). You do not show the therapist a picture. You do not open the door to interference from cps.
See above, do not talk to the man.

You can do therapy. Work on your marriage and anger management.

People are so stupid to not understand. Never invite the man into your business.

+1
You don't want to get caught up in the criminal justice system unless it's a serious offense. If it's domestic violence, which could be as harmless as someone throwing a remote control on the ground, police will arrest if they have probable cause. Gone are the days of working things out.

Uh, how well did letting them alone to work it out turn out for Gabby Petito? This idea that police jump to arrest abusers is either naïveté or misogyny.

She didn’t file a report. Once you file a report it all unfolds like clockwork.

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/29/1119325730/his-mom-and-sister-were-killed-now-hes-channeling-grief-to-fight-domestic-violen

It really doesn’t. Are you naïve or just good with dead women as long as no one hurts an abusers feeling?

These responses have become unmoored from the actual incident. Here’s the OP:

“Things that I find common that the kids do irk and trigger anger for DH and we’ve decided to start counseling to work on our communication and be better parents. In the latest incident, DH grabbed DD because she was screaming inside and wouldn’t stop after repeatedly being asked. He left marks on her”

So what do we have here? Irked. Angered. Asked daughter multiple times verbally to stop. Grabbed daughter. Daughter has “marks,” don’t know how hard or what kind vs whether these were just the brief red transient type you’d expect when a man grabs a child. Couple is now in mutually agreed upon voluntary therapy to improve communication and parenting. Both parents being open and honest.

That’s it. That’s all. If you think this warrants a formal agency investigation by an agency whose job it is to —surprise! recommend parenting classes & therapy they themselves just initiated —and remand children to foster care you yourself should be investigated. There is no way someone with half a brain would lose their license over not reporting this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op: number one rule. Never, I repeat never talk to the Man.
(The po po, fuzz, etc). You do not show the therapist a picture. You do not open the door to interference from cps.
See above, do not talk to the man.

You can do therapy. Work on your marriage and anger management.

People are so stupid to not understand. Never invite the man into your business.

+1
You don't want to get caught up in the criminal justice system unless it's a serious offense. If it's domestic violence, which could be as harmless as someone throwing a remote control on the ground, police will arrest if they have probable cause. Gone are the days of working things out.

Uh, how well did letting them alone to work it out turn out for Gabby Petito? This idea that police jump to arrest abusers is either naïveté or misogyny.

So because someone was murdered (impossible to foresee), lets arrest people for petty crimes that can have major ramifications. The criminal justice system rarely solves any problems and often times makes things a lot worse.

He assaulted his child (yes, he did legally, whether you agree with it or not). That is not a “petty crime.” You excuse-makers are disgusting.

You can’t see the forest for the trees. But sure, put your kid in the CPS system. Mom may never see them again.

Seriously you need to take off your self-righteous blinders and get a grip, understand what is likely to happen to this child in Forster care even briefly. I have treated dozens and dozens of people who were in foster care. Every one of them has horror stories way worse than what this dad did to his own child, immediately regretted, and is seeking help for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

Ok so in a worst case scenario a CPS investigation is started and since you have nothing to hide and don’t routinely bruise your child (right?) it’s an annoyance and potentially an expense.

A mandatory reporter ignores those bruises and loses their job and a kid potentially loses their life. Why is that a preferable outcome to you?

I don’t think you have any concept or understanding of how traumatizing these inquiries can be even if they are baseless. These people, most of whom have sub mental IQs, have the power to ruin your reputation, in some cases your career, destroy your family, and remove your child. It is a horrific experience even if you are innocent.

I do understand this could be traumatizing. I’m saying the trauma a parent who engages in one-time abuse or is misunderstood feels is a lesser evil than a child dying. I’m saying your reputation and career are not more important than the mandatory reporters career, which is what they lose if they don’t report you.

My reputation and career ARE more important than a mandated supporters career.

And if my spouse tried to label me an abuser we would be done, and they could kiss seeing their children goodbye at least half of the time.

Why is your career more important than a doctor's, or a teacher's, or a therapist's?

In many states the the definition of who is a mandated reporter has been extended so broadly as to include virtually any adult.

Is that doctor, teacher or therapist going to be supporting my children? No. Therefore my career and reputation are more important FOR THE CHILD than the reporter’s.

Do you understand that if telling the truth ruins your reputation, then it is based upon a falsehood?

If you can't stand behind your own actions, because they would be roundly condemned...maybe you need to look in the mirror.

Maybe you need to get a clue. In many circles and professions, the inquiry alone would be sufficient to cause harm. For a doctor for example, they may be required to state whether they have ever been investigated in order to get hospital privileges or a state license. Even if nothing came of the investigation. Not to mention other parents. Are you sending your kid to play and socializing with the parents who had CPS called on them, even if chargers were never filed? Yeah no.

You know what? It’s about the child’s safety, not your frigging social life.

Sorry you are traumatized but your version of vigilantism is unhelpful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

It
Does
Not
Matter

Marks
Equals
Report

You
Are
Way
Too
Full
Of
Yourself
And
Not
Helping
People

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op: number one rule. Never, I repeat never talk to the Man.
(The po po, fuzz, etc). You do not show the therapist a picture. You do not open the door to interference from cps.
See above, do not talk to the man.

You can do therapy. Work on your marriage and anger management.

People are so stupid to not understand. Never invite the man into your business.

+1
You don't want to get caught up in the criminal justice system unless it's a serious offense. If it's domestic violence, which could be as harmless as someone throwing a remote control on the ground, police will arrest if they have probable cause. Gone are the days of working things out.

Uh, how well did letting them alone to work it out turn out for Gabby Petito? This idea that police jump to arrest abusers is either naïveté or misogyny.

So because someone was murdered (impossible to foresee), lets arrest people for petty crimes that can have major ramifications. The criminal justice system rarely solves any problems and often times makes things a lot worse.

He assaulted his child (yes, he did legally, whether you agree with it or not). That is not a “petty crime.” You excuse-makers are disgusting.

You can’t see the forest for the trees. But sure, put your kid in the CPS system. Mom may never see them again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op: number one rule. Never, I repeat never talk to the Man.
(The po po, fuzz, etc). You do not show the therapist a picture. You do not open the door to interference from cps.
See above, do not talk to the man.

You can do therapy. Work on your marriage and anger management.

People are so stupid to not understand. Never invite the man into your business.

+1
You don't want to get caught up in the criminal justice system unless it's a serious offense. If it's domestic violence, which could be as harmless as someone throwing a remote control on the ground, police will arrest if they have probable cause. Gone are the days of working things out.

Uh, how well did letting them alone to work it out turn out for Gabby Petito? This idea that police jump to arrest abusers is either naïveté or misogyny.

So because someone was murdered (impossible to foresee), lets arrest people for petty crimes that can have major ramifications. The criminal justice system rarely solves any problems and often times makes things a lot worse.

He assaulted his child (yes, he did legally, whether you agree with it or not). That is not a “petty crime.” You excuse-makers are disgusting.

Anonymous wrote:Op: number one rule. Never, I repeat never talk to the Man.
(The po po, fuzz, etc). You do not show the therapist a picture. You do not open the door to interference from cps.
See above, do not talk to the man.

You can do therapy. Work on your marriage and anger management.

People are so stupid to not understand. Never invite the man into your business.

“The Man?” Are you 15?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

Ok so in a worst case scenario a CPS investigation is started and since you have nothing to hide and don’t routinely bruise your child (right?) it’s an annoyance and potentially an expense.

A mandatory reporter ignores those bruises and loses their job and a kid potentially loses their life. Why is that a preferable outcome to you?

I don’t think you have any concept or understanding of how traumatizing these inquiries can be even if they are baseless. These people, most of whom have sub mental IQs, have the power to ruin your reputation, in some cases your career, destroy your family, and remove your child. It is a horrific experience even if you are innocent.

I do understand this could be traumatizing. I’m saying the trauma a parent who engages in one-time abuse or is misunderstood feels is a lesser evil than a child dying. I’m saying your reputation and career are not more important than the mandatory reporters career, which is what they lose if they don’t report you.

My reputation and career ARE more important than a mandated supporters career.

And if my spouse tried to label me an abuser we would be done, and they could kiss seeing their children goodbye at least half of the time.

Why is your career more important than a doctor's, or a teacher's, or a therapist's?

In many states the the definition of who is a mandated reporter has been extended so broadly as to include virtually any adult.

Is that doctor, teacher or therapist going to be supporting my children? No. Therefore my career and reputation are more important FOR THE CHILD than the reporter’s.

Do you understand that if telling the truth ruins your reputation, then it is based upon a falsehood?

If you can't stand behind your own actions, because they would be roundly condemned...maybe you need to look in the mirror.

Maybe you need to get a clue. In many circles and professions, the inquiry alone would be sufficient to cause harm. For a doctor for example, they may be required to state whether they have ever been investigated in order to get hospital privileges or a state license. Even if nothing came of the investigation. Not to mention other parents. Are you sending your kid to play and socializing with the parents who had CPS called on them, even if chargers were never filed? Yeah no.

You know what? It’s about the child’s safety, not your frigging social life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

I know. It is ridiculous. Kid was screaming inside, and parents aren't supposed to be able to do anything about it.

Well, it is pretty ridiculous that the only thing OP's DH thought to do about it was grab the kid hard enough to leave marks. It's a reflection of his limited capability to respond - it's actually scary that a grown man couldn't find any other way than to get physical. I can think of plenty of many other ways to respond that would have been appropriate.

Yes, it’s so exactly the same to be sitting at a keyboard contemplating ways to respond when you are not in the situation as it is to be the parent in the moment and in the presence of said screaming kid

Ah yes! This must be the first child that ever screamed in all human history that no one has ever thought of a way to respond without violence! If only there were literally entire books written about how to respond to children correctly…we could keep them in parenting sections of libraries and bookstores! We could have whole articles on positive parenting techniques taking up tons of the internet. But no this helpless man encountered the worlds first screaming child.

Said the woman who has never ever lost her cool with a child. Cause that never ever happens with good parents.

Lost my cool with my child? Sure. I kissed her and put her safely in her crib and *I* left the room for five minutes because her screaming was making me feel out of control. It is, in fact, what parenting books and pediatricians and even the internet all tell you to do with a screaming child.

You’re right about one thing— good parents do not “lose their cool” the way OPs husband did.

Yes and you have never raised your voice not even once.

Stop deflecting. We are not talking about “raised voices.” We are talking about a grown man getting physical with a minor child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

I know. It is ridiculous. Kid was screaming inside, and parents aren't supposed to be able to do anything about it.

What would you do if a kid was screaming inside and didn't stop when told to stop?

Not grab them hard enough to leave marks. That’s for damn sure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

I agree. What the husband did is bad, but not "reporting level" bad, in my opinion. If the therapist And if both parents are willing to try therapy, clearly they are doing something.

There is a specific subset of the USA, well-represented on DCUM, that makes no difference whatsoever between varying levels of harm. They are scandalized and seek to ostracize anyone who does the least shadow of anything.

It's not helpful in practice. You can seek to educate and train those who err in a small way, and report and punish those who err in a serious way. There is a gradient. It's not all black and white.

That’s nice. The law is the law and doesn’t care about your opinion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

It
Does
Not
Matter

Marks
Equals
Report

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Uh, no. “Left marks” equals mandated report, which you’d know if you actually were a mandated reporter.