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Anonymous wrote:For some reason Asian kids did fine during the pandemic. Their scores, including SAT scores, just keep going up. Why is that?

The article says that the downward trend was from 2013. Asian-Americans have already figured out that there are a lot of weaknesses in American education system and so they have been supplementing and teaching their kids at home.

Mostly the Asian-American parents (and specifically the moms) are very well-educated and can teach Math to their children so the children are coming out ahead in STEM. Culturally, there is a huge emphasis on education within families and the community as a whole. Finally, most Asian-Americans first gen were highly educated people from their countries who came to the US. They are not the poorest of the poor, uneducated migrants.

The weaknesses in American education system that most Asians notice and try to overcome are -
1) Shortened school year
2) Lack of textbooks
3) Lack of final exams
4) Lack of discipline in classrooms. Disruptive students are tolerated. Parents are not responsible.
5) Lack of a well defined curriculum, syllabus that is shared with students and parents. Textbooks and units of study that are mapped to the syllabus and curriculum.
6) Not failing any students in any grade and holding them back
7) Grade inflation. Students earn grades for doing homework.
8) Graded assignments and tests are not returned back to students and parents.
9) No comprehensive, standardized curriculum, syallabus, textbooks, testing and school year nationally for all grades and all subjects. Even SAT is going away.

What the US does extremely well -
1) Free education for everybody
2) Free transportation for coming and going to school
3) Free meals
4) Free school supplies.

+1

I agree with most of this, which is why the academic success of Asian-American students should not be used to argue why what we are doing now is just fine for any family that cares about their kids' education. If you can only succeed through extensive supplementation, there is a problem. The lack of textbooks and defined syllabus are a huge part of why it is hard for parents to help their kids - it takes independent work to provide that support, which may don't have.

+1. I was reading through the exhaustive list of what needs to be overcome, it's no wonder parents are daunted. My dad used to read my textbooks to help me with math. My kids have no textbooks! Not to mention that the way kids teach math is different from when I was a kid.

I also just don't understand how parents find all this time for extra supplementation and have kids willing to sit and do it after a full day of school plus homework. Are no one else's kids exhausted at the end of the day?

There is no exhaustive list to overcome. There is no extensive supplementation. It is normal daily teaching at home so that the kids are able to review what they learned at school and if there are any lack of comprehension the parents can clarify for the child.

The parents need to priortize their kid's education above all. The school system is already giving free schooling, meals, supplies and transportation. Sometimes they are also giving free after and before care. They cannot do much more than this. Maybe they can give textbooks.

Parents need to step up and make sure that their kids are studying at home every day. 1 hour of daily review at home in the ES and MS years is all that is needed. However, only 40% of White Americans are college educated. Can you imagine that? Most parents are incapable of teaching their children because they are also basically uneducated. Never mind the URM and low SES households.

You do need textbooks and that is one thing that parents can do for their children. Get them textbooks before school opens. Buy the textbooks second hand from Amazon and use that to guide your children.

Are the kids exhausted from being in school? Sure. My kids are. But, they are expected to do all homework at school during lunch break and during the bus-ride home. The daily teaching happens when my husband or I get back from work and it happens for an hour or so every day. Weekends and holidays also include an hour or so of studying daily. Summer will also include vacation travel, some fun camps and some academic camps. Of course, this also means that the lives of parents revolve around the kids and their education.

Ultimately, parents are responsible if their kids are at or below grade.

I feel like you are illustrating part of the problem though- how do you do a daily review at home when they are provided so little materials to bring home? Oh, you're buying textbooks that used to be provided by the school. So now parents have to figure out WHICH textbook to buy and then pay for them. Textbooks aren't cheap, even used ones, and then what if you make a poor selection that doesn't jive with what is being taught in class?

Also, just because someone is college educated doesn't make them a good teacher. But it's great that you are and I'm sure your kids are high achievers because of it.

Ignore the textbook harpy. They're simply misguided and attached to 19th century teaching methods. MCPS has everything online. If they knew how to use a computer, they'd realize what a waste of time that nonsense is. I'm glad I live in a county that doesn't spend $$$ on making kids lug those vestiges of old times around and helps them learn how things get done today.

LOL. MCPS is doing poorly than in the 19th century teaching method, aren't they? They cannot get their scores up and they now have an assembly line that is producing idiots. You live in a county where the achievement gap is growing wider each year and where everyone is doing poorly. Isn't that this whole thread about?

None of the parents here are able to teach from these online resources because...well, where are these online resources?? Oh yeah, only the student (who is effing failing) can log on to some site and access that. So the parents contribution is ZERO.

Why don't you screenshot the page of the one online textbook for 8th grade Geometry from the online resource and post it here?

You can log into your child's account. We do. MCPS also offers free tutoring which we use to fill in some gaps. Parents have to be proactive when the schools are not.

So then no kid should have had any loss of learning, amirite? Why is this thread even in existence? MCPS is doing just great. Lalalalalalalalalalllll

Anonymous wrote:I have no doubt that there is a loss of learning due to the pandemic and virtual learning. Im just curious as to what some of you would have done differently? I mean going virtual was the only option at a time. Our kids are alive. Not saying they didn’t pay a price, of course, but what’s here is here .

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Anonymous wrote:Yes disaggregation would be helpful. But I imagine the stats will reflect similar results. Meanwhile the teachers were telling us how everything was fine and virtual school and students loved it better than virtual. 🙄

Many of us knew all along this would happen.

Virtual school was fine for kids who had parents who cared enough to make sure the kids were getting what they needed.

Except they only presented 80% of the content, even to your super-smart, well-behaved DC. So no, your kid isn't 'fine."

Why weren't you supplementing?

Don't deflect. The point is that people whose children bring home As think that all is well. Well, no, it isn't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For some reason Asian kids did fine during the pandemic. Their scores, including SAT scores, just keep going up. Why is that?

The article says that the downward trend was from 2013. Asian-Americans have already figured out that there are a lot of weaknesses in American education system and so they have been supplementing and teaching their kids at home.

Mostly the Asian-American parents (and specifically the moms) are very well-educated and can teach Math to their children so the children are coming out ahead in STEM. Culturally, there is a huge emphasis on education within families and the community as a whole. Finally, most Asian-Americans first gen were highly educated people from their countries who came to the US. They are not the poorest of the poor, uneducated migrants.

The weaknesses in American education system that most Asians notice and try to overcome are -
1) Shortened school year
2) Lack of textbooks
3) Lack of final exams
4) Lack of discipline in classrooms. Disruptive students are tolerated. Parents are not responsible.
5) Lack of a well defined curriculum, syllabus that is shared with students and parents. Textbooks and units of study that are mapped to the syllabus and curriculum.
6) Not failing any students in any grade and holding them back
7) Grade inflation. Students earn grades for doing homework.
8) Graded assignments and tests are not returned back to students and parents.
9) No comprehensive, standardized curriculum, syallabus, textbooks, testing and school year nationally for all grades and all subjects. Even SAT is going away.

What the US does extremely well -
1) Free education for everybody
2) Free transportation for coming and going to school
3) Free meals
4) Free school supplies.

+1

I agree with most of this, which is why the academic success of Asian-American students should not be used to argue why what we are doing now is just fine for any family that cares about their kids' education. If you can only succeed through extensive supplementation, there is a problem. The lack of textbooks and defined syllabus are a huge part of why it is hard for parents to help their kids - it takes independent work to provide that support, which may don't have.

+1. I was reading through the exhaustive list of what needs to be overcome, it's no wonder parents are daunted. My dad used to read my textbooks to help me with math. My kids have no textbooks! Not to mention that the way kids teach math is different from when I was a kid.

I also just don't understand how parents find all this time for extra supplementation and have kids willing to sit and do it after a full day of school plus homework. Are no one else's kids exhausted at the end of the day?

There is no exhaustive list to overcome. There is no extensive supplementation. It is normal daily teaching at home so that the kids are able to review what they learned at school and if there are any lack of comprehension the parents can clarify for the child.

The parents need to priortize their kid's education above all. The school system is already giving free schooling, meals, supplies and transportation. Sometimes they are also giving free after and before care. They cannot do much more than this. Maybe they can give textbooks.

Parents need to step up and make sure that their kids are studying at home every day. 1 hour of daily review at home in the ES and MS years is all that is needed. However, only 40% of White Americans are college educated. Can you imagine that? Most parents are incapable of teaching their children because they are also basically uneducated. Never mind the URM and low SES households.

You do need textbooks and that is one thing that parents can do for their children. Get them textbooks before school opens. Buy the textbooks second hand from Amazon and use that to guide your children.

Are the kids exhausted from being in school? Sure. My kids are. But, they are expected to do all homework at school during lunch break and during the bus-ride home. The daily teaching happens when my husband or I get back from work and it happens for an hour or so every day. Weekends and holidays also include an hour or so of studying daily. Summer will also include vacation travel, some fun camps and some academic camps. Of course, this also means that the lives of parents revolve around the kids and their education.

Ultimately, parents are responsible if their kids are at or below grade.

I feel like you are illustrating part of the problem though- how do you do a daily review at home when they are provided so little materials to bring home? Oh, you're buying textbooks that used to be provided by the school. So now parents have to figure out WHICH textbook to buy and then pay for them. Textbooks aren't cheap, even used ones, and then what if you make a poor selection that doesn't jive with what is being taught in class?

Also, just because someone is college educated doesn't make them a good teacher. But it's great that you are and I'm sure your kids are high achievers because of it.

Ignore the textbook harpy. They're simply misguided and attached to 19th century teaching methods. MCPS has everything online. If they knew how to use a computer, they'd realize what a waste of time that nonsense is. I'm glad I live in a county that doesn't spend $$$ on making kids lug those vestiges of old times around and helps them learn how things get done today.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well gee we had a global pandemic, a president that would rather let people die than tell the truth, a republican party spewing lies and misinformation and you all are thinking the schools are the problem??

OMG Parents are the problem.

Any idiot in the US that voted for Republicans because of schools is a literal idiot.

If your kid lost education during that time it is on you, not the teachers not the administrators. YOU

+ 1 million. But unfortunately things will only get worse and worse because fewer and fewer parents accept that responsibility. There’s no changing a culture that doesn’ty value education. I grew up in Germany and it is night and day.

So true!

Oh? Does Germany have the level of ethnic/cultural diversity that the US does? Does Germany welcome undocumented immigrants and offer them all asylum, as the US (and more locally, Montgomery County) does?

Demographic changes have most definitely had an effect on public schools in the US. And in MCPS.

Comparing Montgomery County to Germany is disingenuous.

NP. Can't tell if you're trolling. Germany is consistently in the top 10 countries internationally for taking in refugees. E.g., https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/refugees-asylum-seekers-and-migrants/global-refugee-crisis-statistics-and-facts/

Clearly you and the PP are trolling.

What percentage of the German population is not white? Compare that to the population of Montgomery County.

Are you really arguing that Germany is as diverse as the US/Montgomery County? Not a chance.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/largest-ethnic-groups-in-germany.html

Why does it matter if they're white?

Because the changing demographics of Montgomery County and Maryland have had an effect on test scores. We have had an influx of non-English speakers, many of whose parents are not educated.

OK, if it's about percentage of non-English speakers, then definitely makes sense to compare to a (West) Germany model. Their non-German speaking immigrant population is comparable. I don't know the numbers on education level though.

Personally, I find it more helpful to learn from other countries than to start with the premise that the US and MoCo are exceptional. Our family has had few complaints with MCPS but no harm in trying to do things better.

DP. Americans are not ready to accept the German system, because it is inherently discriminatory. If a child is not a high performer (and disproportionately, this perception is linked to the national origin of the parents) they are simply placed in the hauptschule track and graduate into the apprenticeship world.

You cannot compare the scores of 11th grade Germans and Americans and make meaningful conclusions because the lower performing German children have been kicked out into the working world.

Maybe we will eventually adopt this system, but your comparison is ill informed.

Not only that, but the US has the opposite problem; here everyone overvalues IQ and thinks their kid is 'gifted' and therefore belongs in 'AP' or whatever class, leading to watered down classes and situations where no real learning occurs in the 'highest' classes. Culture wise, I suspect that Germans overall are more focused on education to the degree that parents are willing to help/work with their kids at home. Here in the US parents prefer to not deal with teaching them and instead throw lots of money on outside tutoring to the point that tutoring services has become a huge business. Comparisons have to be done across similar metrics and across various groups. The top kids here are certainly comparable to the top kids there, but the bottom kids here are likely way below the bottom kids there. The gap here is huge.

Or it could be that parents hire tutors when they don’t know HOW to help their struggling kids, not because they don’t want to. If a kid is unable to grasp things in school with a professional teacher, how am I, as a completely untrained parent, supposed to help? Believe me I’ve been there and it can be a helpless feeling. Also sometimes kids respond to other authority figures differently than a parent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes disaggregation would be helpful. But I imagine the stats will reflect similar results. Meanwhile the teachers were telling us how everything was fine and virtual school and students loved it better than virtual. 🙄

Many of us knew all along this would happen.

Virtual school was fine for kids who had parents who cared enough to make sure the kids were getting what they needed.

Except they only presented 80% of the content, even to your super-smart, well-behaved DC. So no, your kid isn't 'fine."

Why weren't you supplementing?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes disaggregation would be helpful. But I imagine the stats will reflect similar results. Meanwhile the teachers were telling us how everything was fine and virtual school and students loved it better than virtual. 🙄

Many of us knew all along this would happen.

Virtual school was fine for kids who had parents who cared enough to make sure the kids were getting what they needed.

Except they only presented 80% of the content, even to your super-smart, well-behaved DC. So no, your kid isn't 'fine."

At least at our school the teachers went above and beyond to present the full curriculum. Just saying that isn't really true even though it's a popular thing to repeat.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Yikes. See recent data.

"75 percent of Maryland eighth-grade students and 69 percent of fourth-grade students are at or below basic achievement in mathematics."

Maryland eighth-grade math scores fell 11 points on a 500-point scale, (from 280 in 2019 to 269 this year). This means that 75 percent of Maryland eighth-grade students performed at or below the basic level. Fourth-grade scores slipped 10 points over the same period (from 239 to 229). This means that 69 percent of Maryland fourth-grade students performed at or below the basic level.

In reading, Maryland’s fourth-graders’ scores fell 8 points on a 500-point scale (from 220 in 2019 to 212 this year). This means that 69 percent of Maryland fourth-grade students performed at or below the basic level. Eighth-graders’ reading scores dropped 5 points during the same period (from 264 to 259). This means that 67 percent of Maryland eighth-grade students performed at or below the basic level.

https://patch.com/maryland/belair/achievement-tests-show-covid-toll-md-students-especially-math

There's so much bad information packed into this post that I don't know where to begin.

Exactly, it's all based on an unvetted test that had only been given once before. Sure, I can accept that test scores across the country are down because of the emotional toll of the pandemic but these stats alone aren't all that credible.

unvetted tests? It was the NAEP, and kids in MCPS have been taking that tests for a long time.

[quote]According to the Maryland State Department of Education, the downward trend started in 2013 and "worsened during the pandemic." The largest decline in proficiency in Maryland and nationally was experienced in mathematics; 75 percent of Maryland eighth-grade students and 69 percent of fourth-grade students are at or below basic achievement in mathematics.