Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

My kids have read Shakespeare in their MCPS schools. Romeo and Juliet and A Midsummer Night's Dream, IIRC. Don't remember any Melville specifically, but it's possible the older kid read Bartleby the Scrivener. No high school kid is reading Moby Dick in school; that's for college English majors only.

What school in MCPS were they in when they read Shakespeare? And how long ago? Was it a Magnet program?

My older kid read Shakespeare when she was at the CES. The CES was amazing, but not all kids have that opportunity, considering they have a long wait list for many of the regional CES centers.

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

My kids have read Shakespeare in their MCPS schools. Romeo and Juliet and A Midsummer Night's Dream, IIRC. Don't remember any Melville specifically, but it's possible the older kid read Bartleby the Scrivener. No high school kid is reading Moby Dick in school; that's for college English majors only.

Shakespeare is still very relevant. A good English teacher, if able to get around the restrictive MCPS curriculum, could teach gender fluidity and gender roles through a comparison of Twelfth Night and perhaps Virginia Woolf's Orlando. Or something more modern like George.

It matters that older authors tackled these issues long ago - that they aren't just recent manifestations in our culture.

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

I don’t know why that my kids had/have to read such trashy books. My son read Of Mice and Men by Steinbeck and even though it is a classic it was awful. Most of the books they read are about POC or written by POC. Wish they’d be books written about AA that really made a difference in the world like Vivien Thomas who helped modernize medicine or the people in books like Hidden Figures. Fortunately my so. Is in his last year of “regular”, he’ll be taking AP next year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw PP, you are trying to argue that books with White authors should account for 88% of the MCPS curriculum in a school system that is 25% White. Do you not see how you are upholding White supremacy?

Your post implies that we need to introduce more Black and Brown authors simply because the percentage of Black and Brown students in MCPS is larger. That is also ridiculous.

My MS kid read 'The Pact' last year, likely to fulfill some quota of books about/by Black authors. It was trash. Poorly written and crap. I can guarantee you that MCPS is not doing Black and Brown kids any favors by pushing books like this on our kids. The White and Asian parents will still make sure their kids get a good education, whether it's in private school or supplementing outside of school. And, those kids, or the kids in the 'better' clusters are still reading the classics.

Quit the hyperfocus on race, and percentage of racial makeups, and all of this nonsense. Expect excellence, or at least expect competence, from kids of ALL races.

Lol if you think the W clusters are reading the classics. Nope. Students there are also assigned maybe 2 books a year and yes, it’s sometimes a new author to teach a political agenda.

I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw PP, you are trying to argue that books with White authors should account for 88% of the MCPS curriculum in a school system that is 25% White. Do you not see how you are upholding White supremacy?

Your post implies that we need to introduce more Black and Brown authors simply because the percentage of Black and Brown students in MCPS is larger. That is also ridiculous.

My MS kid read 'The Pact' last year, likely to fulfill some quota of books about/by Black authors. It was trash. Poorly written and crap. I can guarantee you that MCPS is not doing Black and Brown kids any favors by pushing books like this on our kids. The White and Asian parents will still make sure their kids get a good education, whether it's in private school or supplementing outside of school. And, those kids, or the kids in the 'better' clusters are still reading the classics.

Quit the hyperfocus on race, and percentage of racial makeups, and all of this nonsense. Expect excellence, or at least expect competence, from kids of ALL races.

Your post implies books written by White authors are better than those written by POC.

Nope. Not implying or saying that at all.

I want kids to read well-written books. Regardless of the race of the author.

Having kids read crap books just to ensure they are reading ‘diverse’ books doesn’t do them any favors. The kids are just missing out on reading the books that more ‘well-educated’ kids will have read.

I mean you have pretty much said that to be "well-educated" kids need to read books written by White authors. We all know what you are saying. Also you don't think children of color need to read books by authors of color. That's simply not true.

Like it or not, there are books that well educated people are at least familiar with. The classics were mostly written by white men and being educated means at least being familiar with them. That doesn't mean that kids shouldn't have to read books by authors of color, but it does mean that kids are going to have to suffer through Shakespeare and Melville

Look I've read Shakespeare and Melville, and frankly have retained very little. You aren't giving a reason for requiring them, except that White people like them.

Take it up with all the English ‘experts’ who have decided that certain books are ‘classics’. That’s just how it is. And different countries have different authors that they hold up as excellent writers.

I’m not looking to argue about whether White authors write better or not. I certainly don’t think that is the case.

But, like it or not, there are certain classics that kids should read. You can argue that those books are terrible and kids shouldn’t be required to read them. However, ad long as that is the case (that certain books are considered a sign of being ‘well-educated’), you are doing Black and Brown kids a disservice by not offering them in the curriculum.

"experts" being other white males?

So you'd actually design a high school english curriculum without teaching Shakespeare and consider it adequate?

shrug.. Whether it's Shakespeare or Walt Whitman, does it matter that my kid reads their books? They can read other "classics". The purpose of reading harder text is to expand on language, vocabulary, complexity of the language. Can't we get that from other books?

In the US, the word "color" used to be spelled "colour" because we inherited that from the Brits. But, at some point, we dropped the extraneous letters in many of our words. Should we still spell color with a "U" because it's "classic" , and that's the way it was?

I had a good laugh when I heard that some of the 80s things were now considered "classics". I was a tween/teen in the 80s. So, you see, the definition of "classics" changes over time. We are now in the 21st century. Jobs are changing; skill sets that are required in the workplace are changing, but you think we should still read the same books we've read 50 years ago in class because you consider them "classics"?

How has reading Shakespeare made you more educated than someone who has never read Shakespeare from another country but has an advanced degree?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw PP, you are trying to argue that books with White authors should account for 88% of the MCPS curriculum in a school system that is 25% White. Do you not see how you are upholding White supremacy?

Your post implies that we need to introduce more Black and Brown authors simply because the percentage of Black and Brown students in MCPS is larger. That is also ridiculous.

My MS kid read 'The Pact' last year, likely to fulfill some quota of books about/by Black authors. It was trash. Poorly written and crap. I can guarantee you that MCPS is not doing Black and Brown kids any favors by pushing books like this on our kids. The White and Asian parents will still make sure their kids get a good education, whether it's in private school or supplementing outside of school. And, those kids, or the kids in the 'better' clusters are still reading the classics.

Quit the hyperfocus on race, and percentage of racial makeups, and all of this nonsense. Expect excellence, or at least expect competence, from kids of ALL races.

Your post implies books written by White authors are better than those written by POC.

Nope. Not implying or saying that at all.

I want kids to read well-written books. Regardless of the race of the author.

Having kids read crap books just to ensure they are reading ‘diverse’ books doesn’t do them any favors. The kids are just missing out on reading the books that more ‘well-educated’ kids will have read.

I mean you have pretty much said that to be "well-educated" kids need to read books written by White authors. We all know what you are saying. Also you don't think children of color need to read books by authors of color. That's simply not true.

Like it or not, there are books that well educated people are at least familiar with. The classics were mostly written by white men and being educated means at least being familiar with them. That doesn't mean that kids shouldn't have to read books by authors of color, but it does mean that kids are going to have to suffer through Shakespeare and Melville

Look I've read Shakespeare and Melville, and frankly have retained very little. You aren't giving a reason for requiring them, except that White people like them.

Take it up with all the English ‘experts’ who have decided that certain books are ‘classics’. That’s just how it is. And different countries have different authors that they hold up as excellent writers.

I’m not looking to argue about whether White authors write better or not. I certainly don’t think that is the case.

But, like it or not, there are certain classics that kids should read. You can argue that those books are terrible and kids shouldn’t be required to read them. However, ad long as that is the case (that certain books are considered a sign of being ‘well-educated’), you are doing Black and Brown kids a disservice by not offering them in the curriculum.

"experts" being other white males?

So you'd actually design a high school english curriculum without teaching Shakespeare and consider it adequate?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw PP, you are trying to argue that books with White authors should account for 88% of the MCPS curriculum in a school system that is 25% White. Do you not see how you are upholding White supremacy?

Your post implies that we need to introduce more Black and Brown authors simply because the percentage of Black and Brown students in MCPS is larger. That is also ridiculous.

My MS kid read 'The Pact' last year, likely to fulfill some quota of books about/by Black authors. It was trash. Poorly written and crap. I can guarantee you that MCPS is not doing Black and Brown kids any favors by pushing books like this on our kids. The White and Asian parents will still make sure their kids get a good education, whether it's in private school or supplementing outside of school. And, those kids, or the kids in the 'better' clusters are still reading the classics.

Quit the hyperfocus on race, and percentage of racial makeups, and all of this nonsense. Expect excellence, or at least expect competence, from kids of ALL races.

Your post implies books written by White authors are better than those written by POC.

Nope. Not implying or saying that at all.

I want kids to read well-written books. Regardless of the race of the author.

Having kids read crap books just to ensure they are reading ‘diverse’ books doesn’t do them any favors. The kids are just missing out on reading the books that more ‘well-educated’ kids will have read.

I mean you have pretty much said that to be "well-educated" kids need to read books written by White authors. We all know what you are saying. Also you don't think children of color need to read books by authors of color. That's simply not true.

Like it or not, there are books that well educated people are at least familiar with. The classics were mostly written by white men and being educated means at least being familiar with them. That doesn't mean that kids shouldn't have to read books by authors of color, but it does mean that kids are going to have to suffer through Shakespeare and Melville

good lord, PP, do you not realize who defines "classics" and why most "classics" are written by white males.

I think the antiracist audit is not useful, and money could be better spent, but your view here is really privileged and ignorant.

BTW, my DS in a magnet program had to read Pride & Prejudice, and I was super excited he was going to read that. I love that book. But, he was dreading it. Half way through it, he said it was not a bad book. DS also has read Shakespeare in class, along with other books written by non white non males.

I was forced to read Gustav Flaubert and hated every minute of it. I would've much preferred to have read Jane Austin novels in school.

Hating those horrible novels is part of English class. I'd toss the Bronte sisters in that category too. We at least got to read Austin. As of now, Dickens is part of the Cannon, so kids have to learn about David Copperfield whether or not the story holds up. There are also black women who also have canonical works- Morrison being the most obvious, so I'd expect kids to get to study Beloved (as long as they don't live in a book banning state). A lot of those books are horrible slogs to get through, but reading them is part of being educated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw PP, you are trying to argue that books with White authors should account for 88% of the MCPS curriculum in a school system that is 25% White. Do you not see how you are upholding White supremacy?

Your post implies that we need to introduce more Black and Brown authors simply because the percentage of Black and Brown students in MCPS is larger. That is also ridiculous.

My MS kid read 'The Pact' last year, likely to fulfill some quota of books about/by Black authors. It was trash. Poorly written and crap. I can guarantee you that MCPS is not doing Black and Brown kids any favors by pushing books like this on our kids. The White and Asian parents will still make sure their kids get a good education, whether it's in private school or supplementing outside of school. And, those kids, or the kids in the 'better' clusters are still reading the classics.

Quit the hyperfocus on race, and percentage of racial makeups, and all of this nonsense. Expect excellence, or at least expect competence, from kids of ALL races.

Your post implies books written by White authors are better than those written by POC.

Nope. Not implying or saying that at all.

I want kids to read well-written books. Regardless of the race of the author.

Having kids read crap books just to ensure they are reading ‘diverse’ books doesn’t do them any favors. The kids are just missing out on reading the books that more ‘well-educated’ kids will have read.

I mean you have pretty much said that to be "well-educated" kids need to read books written by White authors. We all know what you are saying. Also you don't think children of color need to read books by authors of color. That's simply not true.

Like it or not, there are books that well educated people are at least familiar with. The classics were mostly written by white men and being educated means at least being familiar with them. That doesn't mean that kids shouldn't have to read books by authors of color, but it does mean that kids are going to have to suffer through Shakespeare and Melville

Look I've read Shakespeare and Melville, and frankly have retained very little. You aren't giving a reason for requiring them, except that White people like them.

Take it up with all the English ‘experts’ who have decided that certain books are ‘classics’. That’s just how it is. And different countries have different authors that they hold up as excellent writers.

I’m not looking to argue about whether White authors write better or not. I certainly don’t think that is the case.

But, like it or not, there are certain classics that kids should read. You can argue that those books are terrible and kids shouldn’t be required to read them. However, ad long as that is the case (that certain books are considered a sign of being ‘well-educated’), you are doing Black and Brown kids a disservice by not offering them in the curriculum.

"experts" being other white males?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw PP, you are trying to argue that books with White authors should account for 88% of the MCPS curriculum in a school system that is 25% White. Do you not see how you are upholding White supremacy?

Your post implies that we need to introduce more Black and Brown authors simply because the percentage of Black and Brown students in MCPS is larger. That is also ridiculous.

My MS kid read 'The Pact' last year, likely to fulfill some quota of books about/by Black authors. It was trash. Poorly written and crap. I can guarantee you that MCPS is not doing Black and Brown kids any favors by pushing books like this on our kids. The White and Asian parents will still make sure their kids get a good education, whether it's in private school or supplementing outside of school. And, those kids, or the kids in the 'better' clusters are still reading the classics.

Quit the hyperfocus on race, and percentage of racial makeups, and all of this nonsense. Expect excellence, or at least expect competence, from kids of ALL races.

Your post implies books written by White authors are better than those written by POC.

Nope. Not implying or saying that at all.

I want kids to read well-written books. Regardless of the race of the author.

Having kids read crap books just to ensure they are reading ‘diverse’ books doesn’t do them any favors. The kids are just missing out on reading the books that more ‘well-educated’ kids will have read.

I mean you have pretty much said that to be "well-educated" kids need to read books written by White authors. We all know what you are saying. Also you don't think children of color need to read books by authors of color. That's simply not true.

Like it or not, there are books that well educated people are at least familiar with. The classics were mostly written by white men and being educated means at least being familiar with them. That doesn't mean that kids shouldn't have to read books by authors of color, but it does mean that kids are going to have to suffer through Shakespeare and Melville

good lord, PP, do you not realize who defines "classics" and why most "classics" are written by white males.

I think the antiracist audit is not useful, and money could be better spent, but your view here is really privileged and ignorant.

BTW, my DS in a magnet program had to read Pride & Prejudice, and I was super excited he was going to read that. I love that book. But, he was dreading it. Half way through it, he said it was not a bad book. DS also has read Shakespeare in class, along with other books written by non white non males.

I was forced to read Gustav Flaubert and hated every minute of it. I would've much preferred to have read Jane Austin novels in school.

*as not ad

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw PP, you are trying to argue that books with White authors should account for 88% of the MCPS curriculum in a school system that is 25% White. Do you not see how you are upholding White supremacy?

Your post implies that we need to introduce more Black and Brown authors simply because the percentage of Black and Brown students in MCPS is larger. That is also ridiculous.

My MS kid read 'The Pact' last year, likely to fulfill some quota of books about/by Black authors. It was trash. Poorly written and crap. I can guarantee you that MCPS is not doing Black and Brown kids any favors by pushing books like this on our kids. The White and Asian parents will still make sure their kids get a good education, whether it's in private school or supplementing outside of school. And, those kids, or the kids in the 'better' clusters are still reading the classics.

Quit the hyperfocus on race, and percentage of racial makeups, and all of this nonsense. Expect excellence, or at least expect competence, from kids of ALL races.

Your post implies books written by White authors are better than those written by POC.

Nope. Not implying or saying that at all.

I want kids to read well-written books. Regardless of the race of the author.

Having kids read crap books just to ensure they are reading ‘diverse’ books doesn’t do them any favors. The kids are just missing out on reading the books that more ‘well-educated’ kids will have read.

I mean you have pretty much said that to be "well-educated" kids need to read books written by White authors. We all know what you are saying. Also you don't think children of color need to read books by authors of color. That's simply not true.

Like it or not, there are books that well educated people are at least familiar with. The classics were mostly written by white men and being educated means at least being familiar with them. That doesn't mean that kids shouldn't have to read books by authors of color, but it does mean that kids are going to have to suffer through Shakespeare and Melville

Look I've read Shakespeare and Melville, and frankly have retained very little. You aren't giving a reason for requiring them, except that White people like them.

Take it up with all the English ‘experts’ who have decided that certain books are ‘classics’. That’s just how it is. And different countries have different authors that they hold up as excellent writers.

I’m not looking to argue about whether White authors write better or not. I certainly don’t think that is the case.

But, like it or not, there are certain classics that kids should read. You can argue that those books are terrible and kids shouldn’t be required to read them. However, ad long as that is the case (that certain books are considered a sign of being ‘well-educated’), you are doing Black and Brown kids a disservice by not offering them in the curriculum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw PP, you are trying to argue that books with White authors should account for 88% of the MCPS curriculum in a school system that is 25% White. Do you not see how you are upholding White supremacy?

Your post implies that we need to introduce more Black and Brown authors simply because the percentage of Black and Brown students in MCPS is larger. That is also ridiculous.

My MS kid read 'The Pact' last year, likely to fulfill some quota of books about/by Black authors. It was trash. Poorly written and crap. I can guarantee you that MCPS is not doing Black and Brown kids any favors by pushing books like this on our kids. The White and Asian parents will still make sure their kids get a good education, whether it's in private school or supplementing outside of school. And, those kids, or the kids in the 'better' clusters are still reading the classics.

Quit the hyperfocus on race, and percentage of racial makeups, and all of this nonsense. Expect excellence, or at least expect competence, from kids of ALL races.

Your post implies books written by White authors are better than those written by POC.

Nope. Not implying or saying that at all.

I want kids to read well-written books. Regardless of the race of the author.

Having kids read crap books just to ensure they are reading ‘diverse’ books doesn’t do them any favors. The kids are just missing out on reading the books that more ‘well-educated’ kids will have read.

I mean you have pretty much said that to be "well-educated" kids need to read books written by White authors. We all know what you are saying. Also you don't think children of color need to read books by authors of color. That's simply not true.

Like it or not, there are books that well educated people are at least familiar with. The classics were mostly written by white men and being educated means at least being familiar with them. That doesn't mean that kids shouldn't have to read books by authors of color, but it does mean that kids are going to have to suffer through Shakespeare and Melville

Look I've read Shakespeare and Melville, and frankly have retained very little. You aren't giving a reason for requiring them, except that White people like them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw PP, you are trying to argue that books with White authors should account for 88% of the MCPS curriculum in a school system that is 25% White. Do you not see how you are upholding White supremacy?

Your post implies that we need to introduce more Black and Brown authors simply because the percentage of Black and Brown students in MCPS is larger. That is also ridiculous.

My MS kid read 'The Pact' last year, likely to fulfill some quota of books about/by Black authors. It was trash. Poorly written and crap. I can guarantee you that MCPS is not doing Black and Brown kids any favors by pushing books like this on our kids. The White and Asian parents will still make sure their kids get a good education, whether it's in private school or supplementing outside of school. And, those kids, or the kids in the 'better' clusters are still reading the classics.

Quit the hyperfocus on race, and percentage of racial makeups, and all of this nonsense. Expect excellence, or at least expect competence, from kids of ALL races.

Your post implies books written by White authors are better than those written by POC.

Nope. Not implying or saying that at all.

I want kids to read well-written books. Regardless of the race of the author.

Having kids read crap books just to ensure they are reading ‘diverse’ books doesn’t do them any favors. The kids are just missing out on reading the books that more ‘well-educated’ kids will have read.

I mean you have pretty much said that to be "well-educated" kids need to read books written by White authors. We all know what you are saying. Also you don't think children of color need to read books by authors of color. That's simply not true.

Like it or not, there are books that well educated people are at least familiar with. The classics were mostly written by white men and being educated means at least being familiar with them. That doesn't mean that kids shouldn't have to read books by authors of color, but it does mean that kids are going to have to suffer through Shakespeare and Melville