Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe forgiveness is something you practice, something you choose. It's not something you feel or is "one and done."

I focus on gratitude for everything we have and have overcome. I focus on humility and having compassion for DH's humanity. I remember that infidelity is sadly a very common response to life's stresses by people who haven't developed the right coping skills yet.

I choose not to live in bitterness, for my sake as much as anyone else's. I say thanks for the chance to remain together and experience so much joy in our marriage and family. I acknowledge my spouse's continuing efforts to better himself and be a healthy and whole person.

Maybe it's a mindset more than anything. It's certainly not just saying, "I forgive you" and feeling some kind of weight lifted magically. It doesn't work that way. It takes tilting your heart towards joy and love and peace on a daily basis.

Humanity? Humanity is shown by helping another in need, by sacrificing. Sticking his D in someone one, wow, so profoundly human. Better himself? Fidelity in marriage is not like a training course. You picked a loser. Why don't you admit that you are staying because you don't want to downsize your life, change your kids' school, have to deal with the neighbors' gossip. This would be sincere and a sign of humanity. Not that verbal garbage above.

If you have never been in this position you can zip it, because you can talk all the game you want but have zero idea what you would actually do.

I know myself, I have self esteem, my own money and career and I respect myself, so I'd know what to do.

Oh I proclaimed the same and I make a lot of $$ and I’m have a ton of self esteem. The pp is correct. Reality is a very different thing entirely.

No you don't. Nobody with self respect wants to be with someone who thinks they are not enough and lacking. And if you are still in love with someone who is mentally abusive to you and is not honest and doesn't care about your feelings, you need therapy. You are better than a discarded old rag.

What you fail to understand is that cheating is about the cheater. They are broken, not the person they cheated on. It has nothing to do with you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe forgiveness is something you practice, something you choose. It's not something you feel or is "one and done."

I focus on gratitude for everything we have and have overcome. I focus on humility and having compassion for DH's humanity. I remember that infidelity is sadly a very common response to life's stresses by people who haven't developed the right coping skills yet.

I choose not to live in bitterness, for my sake as much as anyone else's. I say thanks for the chance to remain together and experience so much joy in our marriage and family. I acknowledge my spouse's continuing efforts to better himself and be a healthy and whole person.

Maybe it's a mindset more than anything. It's certainly not just saying, "I forgive you" and feeling some kind of weight lifted magically. It doesn't work that way. It takes tilting your heart towards joy and love and peace on a daily basis.

Humanity? Humanity is shown by helping another in need, by sacrificing. Sticking his D in someone one, wow, so profoundly human. Better himself? Fidelity in marriage is not like a training course. You picked a loser. Why don't you admit that you are staying because you don't want to downsize your life, change your kids' school, have to deal with the neighbors' gossip. This would be sincere and a sign of humanity. Not that verbal garbage above.

If you have never been in this position you can zip it, because you can talk all the game you want but have zero idea what you would actually do.

I know myself, I have self esteem, my own money and career and I respect myself, so I'd know what to do.

Oh I proclaimed the same and I make a lot of $$ and I’m have a ton of self esteem. The pp is correct. Reality is a very different thing entirely.

No you don't. Nobody with self respect wants to be with someone who thinks they are not enough and lacking. And if you are still in love with someone who is mentally abusive to you and is not honest and doesn't care about your feelings, you need therapy. You are better than a discarded old rag.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe forgiveness is something you practice, something you choose. It's not something you feel or is "one and done."

I focus on gratitude for everything we have and have overcome. I focus on humility and having compassion for DH's humanity. I remember that infidelity is sadly a very common response to life's stresses by people who haven't developed the right coping skills yet.

I choose not to live in bitterness, for my sake as much as anyone else's. I say thanks for the chance to remain together and experience so much joy in our marriage and family. I acknowledge my spouse's continuing efforts to better himself and be a healthy and whole person.

Maybe it's a mindset more than anything. It's certainly not just saying, "I forgive you" and feeling some kind of weight lifted magically. It doesn't work that way. It takes tilting your heart towards joy and love and peace on a daily basis.

Humanity? Humanity is shown by helping another in need, by sacrificing. Sticking his D in someone one, wow, so profoundly human. Better himself? Fidelity in marriage is not like a training course. You picked a loser. Why don't you admit that you are staying because you don't want to downsize your life, change your kids' school, have to deal with the neighbors' gossip. This would be sincere and a sign of humanity. Not that verbal garbage above.

If you have never been in this position you can zip it, because you can talk all the game you want but have zero idea what you would actually do.

I know myself, I have self esteem, my own money and career and I respect myself, so I'd know what to do.

Oh I proclaimed the same and I make a lot of $$ and I’m have a ton of self esteem. The pp is correct. Reality is a very different thing entirely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe forgiveness is something you practice, something you choose. It's not something you feel or is "one and done."

I focus on gratitude for everything we have and have overcome. I focus on humility and having compassion for DH's humanity. I remember that infidelity is sadly a very common response to life's stresses by people who haven't developed the right coping skills yet.

I choose not to live in bitterness, for my sake as much as anyone else's. I say thanks for the chance to remain together and experience so much joy in our marriage and family. I acknowledge my spouse's continuing efforts to better himself and be a healthy and whole person.

Maybe it's a mindset more than anything. It's certainly not just saying, "I forgive you" and feeling some kind of weight lifted magically. It doesn't work that way. It takes tilting your heart towards joy and love and peace on a daily basis.

Humanity? Humanity is shown by helping another in need, by sacrificing. Sticking his D in someone one, wow, so profoundly human. Better himself? Fidelity in marriage is not like a training course. You picked a loser. Why don't you admit that you are staying because you don't want to downsize your life, change your kids' school, have to deal with the neighbors' gossip. This would be sincere and a sign of humanity. Not that verbal garbage above.

If you have never been in this position you can zip it, because you can talk all the game you want but have zero idea what you would actually do.

I know myself, I have self esteem, my own money and career and I respect myself, so I'd know what to do.

Me too. That’s why I don’t need to cheat or stay in a bad marriage looking for an exit affair. I have too much self respect to be somebody’s side Ho.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe forgiveness is something you practice, something you choose. It's not something you feel or is "one and done."

I focus on gratitude for everything we have and have overcome. I focus on humility and having compassion for DH's humanity. I remember that infidelity is sadly a very common response to life's stresses by people who haven't developed the right coping skills yet.

I choose not to live in bitterness, for my sake as much as anyone else's. I say thanks for the chance to remain together and experience so much joy in our marriage and family. I acknowledge my spouse's continuing efforts to better himself and be a healthy and whole person.

Maybe it's a mindset more than anything. It's certainly not just saying, "I forgive you" and feeling some kind of weight lifted magically. It doesn't work that way. It takes tilting your heart towards joy and love and peace on a daily basis.

Humanity? Humanity is shown by helping another in need, by sacrificing. Sticking his D in someone one, wow, so profoundly human. Better himself? Fidelity in marriage is not like a training course. You picked a loser. Why don't you admit that you are staying because you don't want to downsize your life, change your kids' school, have to deal with the neighbors' gossip. This would be sincere and a sign of humanity. Not that verbal garbage above.

If you have never been in this position you can zip it, because you can talk all the game you want but have zero idea what you would actually do.

I know myself, I have self esteem, my own money and career and I respect myself, so I'd know what to do.

I agree. My wife was a whore so I left her.

And you’re a misogynist so thanks for doing her a favor.

No. She has had multiple affairs and I’m out. I forgave the first time for the kids. Then, I found out there were others. No more. Plus, she’s not even pleasant.

But, I guess if she was a man everyone would say leave his @ss. It’s funny when it’s a woman doing the cheating any objection is misogynistic on this board.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe forgiveness is something you practice, something you choose. It's not something you feel or is "one and done."

I focus on gratitude for everything we have and have overcome. I focus on humility and having compassion for DH's humanity. I remember that infidelity is sadly a very common response to life's stresses by people who haven't developed the right coping skills yet.

I choose not to live in bitterness, for my sake as much as anyone else's. I say thanks for the chance to remain together and experience so much joy in our marriage and family. I acknowledge my spouse's continuing efforts to better himself and be a healthy and whole person.

Maybe it's a mindset more than anything. It's certainly not just saying, "I forgive you" and feeling some kind of weight lifted magically. It doesn't work that way. It takes tilting your heart towards joy and love and peace on a daily basis.

Humanity? Humanity is shown by helping another in need, by sacrificing. Sticking his D in someone one, wow, so profoundly human. Better himself? Fidelity in marriage is not like a training course. You picked a loser. Why don't you admit that you are staying because you don't want to downsize your life, change your kids' school, have to deal with the neighbors' gossip. This would be sincere and a sign of humanity. Not that verbal garbage above.

If you have never been in this position you can zip it, because you can talk all the game you want but have zero idea what you would actually do.

I know myself, I have self esteem, my own money and career and I respect myself, so I'd know what to do.

I agree. My wife was a whore so I left her.

And you’re a misogynist so thanks for doing her a favor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah Esther Perel is problematic for me. I agree with some of her observations about monogamy being at odds with our programming, but I think she really doesn't get the trauma aspect of being cheated on. For however long the cheating has been going on, your reality has been a lie, served up on a platter by the person you trusted most. It cuts very deep.

Look, obviously no romantic partner is perfect. Every relationship has areas for improvement. But implying or outright stating that cheating is a result of those problems really lets the cheater off the hook. Your life isn't going to be perfect every second. It's on you to have healthy coping mechanisms and communication skills. "Oh sorry boss, I know I stole from the company, but you were expecting too much of me, so let's talk about that instead."

"I couldn't figure out how to talk to you about hard stuff without traumatizing you, blowing up our relationship, and exposing you to STDs . . . you understand, right? I mean, you NEVER wash the dishes like you say you will . . ."

What? I just read "State of Affairs" and she has like a whole chapter or three on the trauma infidelity inflicts. She says what is often the worst is that the deceived partner's reality was false and that is a huge trauma for them. The life, the relationship they thought they had was a lie. I think her work makes total sense and has helped me personally.

Yes, she does mention trauma in State of Affairs, where she says that the trauma must be dealt with before the betrayed spouse can acknowledge how they contributed to the affair. I don't agree that there's a causal relationship between a person's contributions to a marriage and their spouse's decision to cheat, and that it's damaging to imply that there is one. Before State of Affairs, she wrote Mating in Captivity, which doesn't mention trauma once but says a lot about the eroticism of affairs.

Are you implying by acknowledging how exciting and erotic affairs are that she is somehow immoral or unethical? She is stating a well known fact that must be brought out of the darkness for people to actually affair-proof their relationships. Or… open them up.

OK, here's my totally honest answer that my DH will never hear:

I talk a big game about how I'd leave if anyone cheated on me and I definitely have the financial independence/means to do so. But if it were a one time thing and DH made a mistake, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to get past it, as long as he was truly remorseful. He's an amazing, amazing dad and husband. He's allowed one hall pass per lifetime of our marriage. But I'm not telling him that ahead of time. 😂

Now, if he turned out to be a repeat offender? That would definitely be the end and I doubt I'd be able to even stay friends. I'd probably still try not to tell the kids, for their own good.

Obviously, I'm hoping to avoid either scenario and so far I have no reasons for concern, but life is long(ish) and who knows what tomorrow brings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe forgiveness is something you practice, something you choose. It's not something you feel or is "one and done."

I focus on gratitude for everything we have and have overcome. I focus on humility and having compassion for DH's humanity. I remember that infidelity is sadly a very common response to life's stresses by people who haven't developed the right coping skills yet.

I choose not to live in bitterness, for my sake as much as anyone else's. I say thanks for the chance to remain together and experience so much joy in our marriage and family. I acknowledge my spouse's continuing efforts to better himself and be a healthy and whole person.

Maybe it's a mindset more than anything. It's certainly not just saying, "I forgive you" and feeling some kind of weight lifted magically. It doesn't work that way. It takes tilting your heart towards joy and love and peace on a daily basis.

Humanity? Humanity is shown by helping another in need, by sacrificing. Sticking his D in someone one, wow, so profoundly human. Better himself? Fidelity in marriage is not like a training course. You picked a loser. Why don't you admit that you are staying because you don't want to downsize your life, change your kids' school, have to deal with the neighbors' gossip. This would be sincere and a sign of humanity. Not that verbal garbage above.

If you have never been in this position you can zip it, because you can talk all the game you want but have zero idea what you would actually do.

I know myself, I have self esteem, my own money and career and I respect myself, so I'd know what to do.

I agree. My wife was a whore so I left her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe forgiveness is something you practice, something you choose. It's not something you feel or is "one and done."

I focus on gratitude for everything we have and have overcome. I focus on humility and having compassion for DH's humanity. I remember that infidelity is sadly a very common response to life's stresses by people who haven't developed the right coping skills yet.

I choose not to live in bitterness, for my sake as much as anyone else's. I say thanks for the chance to remain together and experience so much joy in our marriage and family. I acknowledge my spouse's continuing efforts to better himself and be a healthy and whole person.

Maybe it's a mindset more than anything. It's certainly not just saying, "I forgive you" and feeling some kind of weight lifted magically. It doesn't work that way. It takes tilting your heart towards joy and love and peace on a daily basis.

Humanity? Humanity is shown by helping another in need, by sacrificing. Sticking his D in someone one, wow, so profoundly human. Better himself? Fidelity in marriage is not like a training course. You picked a loser. Why don't you admit that you are staying because you don't want to downsize your life, change your kids' school, have to deal with the neighbors' gossip. This would be sincere and a sign of humanity. Not that verbal garbage above.

If you have never been in this position you can zip it, because you can talk all the game you want but have zero idea what you would actually do.

I know myself, I have self esteem, my own money and career and I respect myself, so I'd know what to do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe forgiveness is something you practice, something you choose. It's not something you feel or is "one and done."

I focus on gratitude for everything we have and have overcome. I focus on humility and having compassion for DH's humanity. I remember that infidelity is sadly a very common response to life's stresses by people who haven't developed the right coping skills yet.

I choose not to live in bitterness, for my sake as much as anyone else's. I say thanks for the chance to remain together and experience so much joy in our marriage and family. I acknowledge my spouse's continuing efforts to better himself and be a healthy and whole person.

Maybe it's a mindset more than anything. It's certainly not just saying, "I forgive you" and feeling some kind of weight lifted magically. It doesn't work that way. It takes tilting your heart towards joy and love and peace on a daily basis.

Humanity? Humanity is shown by helping another in need, by sacrificing. Sticking his D in someone one, wow, so profoundly human. Better himself? Fidelity in marriage is not like a training course. You picked a loser. Why don't you admit that you are staying because you don't want to downsize your life, change your kids' school, have to deal with the neighbors' gossip. This would be sincere and a sign of humanity. Not that verbal garbage above.

If you have never been in this position you can zip it, because you can talk all the game you want but have zero idea what you would actually do.

Anonymous wrote:I believe forgiveness is something you practice, something you choose. It's not something you feel or is "one and done."

I focus on gratitude for everything we have and have overcome. I focus on humility and having compassion for DH's humanity. I remember that infidelity is sadly a very common response to life's stresses by people who haven't developed the right coping skills yet.

I choose not to live in bitterness, for my sake as much as anyone else's. I say thanks for the chance to remain together and experience so much joy in our marriage and family. I acknowledge my spouse's continuing efforts to better himself and be a healthy and whole person.

Maybe it's a mindset more than anything. It's certainly not just saying, "I forgive you" and feeling some kind of weight lifted magically. It doesn't work that way. It takes tilting your heart towards joy and love and peace on a daily basis.

Humanity? Humanity is shown by helping another in need, by sacrificing. Sticking his D in someone one, wow, so profoundly human. Better himself? Fidelity in marriage is not like a training course. You picked a loser. Why don't you admit that you are staying because you don't want to downsize your life, change your kids' school, have to deal with the neighbors' gossip. This would be sincere and a sign of humanity. Not that verbal garbage above.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it infidelity if only making out, kissing and fooling around?
I’d think so but wonder how others see it

Ummmmm is this a trick question?

How about lots of inappropriate texts that end in dinner..."but nothing else"

That doesn't sound good. Emotional affair at a minimum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it infidelity if only making out, kissing and fooling around?
I’d think so but wonder how others see it

Ummmmm is this a trick question?

How about lots of inappropriate texts that end in dinner..."but nothing else"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah Esther Perel is problematic for me. I agree with some of her observations about monogamy being at odds with our programming, but I think she really doesn't get the trauma aspect of being cheated on. For however long the cheating has been going on, your reality has been a lie, served up on a platter by the person you trusted most. It cuts very deep.

Look, obviously no romantic partner is perfect. Every relationship has areas for improvement. But implying or outright stating that cheating is a result of those problems really lets the cheater off the hook. Your life isn't going to be perfect every second. It's on you to have healthy coping mechanisms and communication skills. "Oh sorry boss, I know I stole from the company, but you were expecting too much of me, so let's talk about that instead."

"I couldn't figure out how to talk to you about hard stuff without traumatizing you, blowing up our relationship, and exposing you to STDs . . . you understand, right? I mean, you NEVER wash the dishes like you say you will . . ."

What? I just read "State of Affairs" and she has like a whole chapter or three on the trauma infidelity inflicts. She says what is often the worst is that the deceived partner's reality was false and that is a huge trauma for them. The life, the relationship they thought they had was a lie. I think her work makes total sense and has helped me personally.

My theory is that there are three kinds of betrayed partners —
1) Type one realizes it’ll never go back to the false reality and leaves
2) Type two is so used to living a lie that they quickly construct another lie/delusion to forgive/tolerate their partner and “move on”
3) Type three confronts the lie and decides to go soberly into the truth with their partner

Guessing type three is extremely rare. Type two is probably more prevalent than you’d think. For many, living a lie is a way of life.

Did Door #3, it is tough but no other way if there are plans to live authentically and transparently going forward. I would not try it if the partner wasn’t the one to end it and confess. You have to be able to see a happy future. If it’s just going to be tolerating and there is no love or genuine care it would not be worth it. And, it has to come from the cheater: the change, the transparency, the listening, the therapy, etc. I don’t think many cheaters are that self-aware or empathetic. Some are though and only see it after the fact.

I don’t judge anyone for what they choose. Nobody walks in anyone else’s shoes. You just can’t know what it’s like. And you can’t extrapolate your situation to someone else’s because the marriages and partners involved are all very different. Women cheaters are most often about exit affairs and assume that is how it is for everyone. It’s not which is why most affairs end in despair.