Anonymous wrote:The top 5 majors just declared in my sophomore son’s class at his top 10 SLAC this year in order are CS, Biology, Econ, Chemistry, then English, with CS having almost two times as many majors as Bio.

People really don’t understand what a liberal arts education is.

Is this Carleton? I saw their numbers the other day, very interesting.

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Anonymous wrote:Why such disdain for those majoring in “vocational” degrees? I majored in accounting because as someone with few means, I needed something that would get me straight into a job. I didn’t have much room for error or creativity.

They are telling us we are supposed to know our place.

It's because posters on this site time and again show disdain for students who study the liberal arts, or more accurately the humanities. No one needs disdain the other. Everyone has a different path.

It's kind of ridiculous to condescendingly call a STEM degree a "vocational school." An engineering degree imparts actual knowledge, just like a liberal arts degree.
Yes, it may be different knowledge, but it's hardly inferior knowledge. I have a MA and a JD, but I doubt I would have made it through an engineering degree.

It's vocational in the sense that it is job training. There has been ongoing tension with respect to whether education should be primarily about training young people for jobs or have a broader mission to prepare them to be more fully integrated humans and citizens.

You are delusional and have no clue what is taught at many universities in "stem" disciplines.

You confidently make proclamations without knowledge. Self-doubt is the beginning of wisdom.

I'm sure dubium sapientiae initium is the first thing they teach you in nursing school.

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Anonymous wrote:Why such disdain for those majoring in “vocational” degrees? I majored in accounting because as someone with few means, I needed something that would get me straight into a job. I didn’t have much room for error or creativity.

They are telling us we are supposed to know our place.

It's because posters on this site time and again show disdain for students who study the liberal arts, or more accurately the humanities. No one needs disdain the other. Everyone has a different path.

It's kind of ridiculous to condescendingly call a STEM degree a "vocational school." An engineering degree imparts actual knowledge, just like a liberal arts degree.
Yes, it may be different knowledge, but it's hardly inferior knowledge. I have a MA and a JD, but I doubt I would have made it through an engineering degree.

It's vocational in the sense that it is job training. There has been ongoing tension with respect to whether education should be primarily about training young people for jobs or have a broader mission to prepare them to be more fully integrated humans and citizens.

You are delusional and have no clue what is taught at many universities in "stem" disciplines.

You confidently make proclamations without knowledge. Self-doubt is the beginning of wisdom.

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how can people be fully integrated humans and citizens without good jobs LOL

Having meaningful employment is necessary but not sufficient. It's the Dead Poet's Society thing:

"We don't read and write poetry because it's cute. We read and write poetry because we are members of the human race. And the human race is filled with passion. And medicine, law, business, engineering, these are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for. To quote from Whitman, "O me! O life!... of the questions of these recurring; of the endless trains of the faithless... of cities filled with the foolish; what good amid these, O me, O life?" Answer. That you are here - that life exists, and identity; that the powerful play goes on and you may contribute a verse. That the powerful play *goes on* and you may contribute a verse. What will your verse be?"

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Anonymous wrote:Why such disdain for those majoring in “vocational” degrees? I majored in accounting because as someone with few means, I needed something that would get me straight into a job. I didn’t have much room for error or creativity.

They are telling us we are supposed to know our place.

It's because posters on this site time and again show disdain for students who study the liberal arts, or more accurately the humanities. No one needs disdain the other. Everyone has a different path.

It's kind of ridiculous to condescendingly call a STEM degree a "vocational school." An engineering degree imparts actual knowledge, just like a liberal arts degree.
Yes, it may be different knowledge, but it's hardly inferior knowledge. I have a MA and a JD, but I doubt I would have made it through an engineering degree.

It's vocational in the sense that it is job training. There has been ongoing tension with respect to whether education should be primarily about training young people for jobs or have a broader mission to prepare them to be more fully integrated humans and citizens.

Is it, though? Do you have an engineering degree? I don't know that it provides training for any exact job. Would you call law law school vocational? You need it to be a lawyer (except for in CA), yet it doesn't really provide job training.

Yes, I would call law school vocational. I'm a lawyer, fwiw.

I am a teacher and decided to invest in an elite school for my child who is majoring in the arts.


In my grad school for education, we learned there are 4 reasons for school:

1) To make people employable (economic)
2) To teach people things they need to know in general (how many states there are, who Shakespeare is...rote learning-like Jeopardy facts)
3) To help people become "good" citizens of their own country (patriotism/citizenship)
4) To develop lifelong learners. (philosophical)


If you think about the schools you went to (or the major you selected) it could probably fall into one of those categories.

Heavy on the #4 in our house (but it requires sacrifices and risks to make it happen).

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Anonymous wrote:Why such disdain for those majoring in “vocational” degrees? I majored in accounting because as someone with few means, I needed something that would get me straight into a job. I didn’t have much room for error or creativity.

They are telling us we are supposed to know our place.

It's because posters on this site time and again show disdain for students who study the liberal arts, or more accurately the humanities. No one needs disdain the other. Everyone has a different path.

It's kind of ridiculous to condescendingly call a STEM degree a "vocational school." An engineering degree imparts actual knowledge, just like a liberal arts degree.
Yes, it may be different knowledge, but it's hardly inferior knowledge. I have a MA and a JD, but I doubt I would have made it through an engineering degree.

It's vocational in the sense that it is job training. There has been ongoing tension with respect to whether education should be primarily about training young people for jobs or have a broader mission to prepare them to be more fully integrated humans and citizens.

You are delusional and have no clue what is taught at many universities in "stem" disciplines.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why such disdain for those majoring in “vocational” degrees? I majored in accounting because as someone with few means, I needed something that would get me straight into a job. I didn’t have much room for error or creativity.

They are telling us we are supposed to know our place.

It's because posters on this site time and again show disdain for students who study the liberal arts, or more accurately the humanities. No one needs disdain the other. Everyone has a different path.

It's kind of ridiculous to condescendingly call a STEM degree a "vocational school." An engineering degree imparts actual knowledge, just like a liberal arts degree.
Yes, it may be different knowledge, but it's hardly inferior knowledge. I have a MA and a JD, but I doubt I would have made it through an engineering degree.

I'm sure the PP meant vocational as an insult, but it is not. Let's stop with the superior business, the ranking of jobs. Everyone can't be a day trader. Everyone can't be a custodian. Everyone can't be a doctor. Everyone can't be an engineer. Everyone can't be a farmer, a lawyer, a teacher, or a manager, a salesman, a bus driver, a developer. We need some of each to work as a society.

Did you actually imply day trader is something to be held in esteem? You don't understand day trading. Those people might as well be hanging out at a dog track.

I know far too many kids from not mc families who are some sort of "film" major. Far, far too many. I wonder what the parents are thinking. One of the kids has been out of school for 10+ years and is working a job that pays slightly more than min. wage.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why such disdain for those majoring in “vocational” degrees? I majored in accounting because as someone with few means, I needed something that would get me straight into a job. I didn’t have much room for error or creativity.

They are telling us we are supposed to know our place.

It's because posters on this site time and again show disdain for students who study the liberal arts, or more accurately the humanities. No one needs disdain the other. Everyone has a different path.

It's kind of ridiculous to condescendingly call a STEM degree a "vocational school." An engineering degree imparts actual knowledge, just like a liberal arts degree.
Yes, it may be different knowledge, but it's hardly inferior knowledge. I have a MA and a JD, but I doubt I would have made it through an engineering degree.

I'm sure the PP meant vocational as an insult, but it is not. Let's stop with the superior business, the ranking of jobs. Everyone can't be a day trader. Everyone can't be a custodian. Everyone can't be a doctor. Everyone can't be an engineer. Everyone can't be a farmer, a lawyer, a teacher, or a manager, a salesman, a bus driver, a developer. We need some of each to work as a society.

Is med school a trade school?

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why such disdain for those majoring in “vocational” degrees? I majored in accounting because as someone with few means, I needed something that would get me straight into a job. I didn’t have much room for error or creativity.

They are telling us we are supposed to know our place.

It's because posters on this site time and again show disdain for students who study the liberal arts, or more accurately the humanities. No one needs disdain the other. Everyone has a different path.

It's kind of ridiculous to condescendingly call a STEM degree a "vocational school." An engineering degree imparts actual knowledge, just like a liberal arts degree.
Yes, it may be different knowledge, but it's hardly inferior knowledge. I have a MA and a JD, but I doubt I would have made it through an engineering degree.

It's vocational in the sense that it is job training. There has been ongoing tension with respect to whether education should be primarily about training young people for jobs or have a broader mission to prepare them to be more fully integrated humans and citizens.

Is it, though? Do you have an engineering degree? I don't know that it provides training for any exact job. Would you call law law school vocational? You need it to be a lawyer (except for in CA), yet it doesn't really provide job training.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why such disdain for those majoring in “vocational” degrees? I majored in accounting because as someone with few means, I needed something that would get me straight into a job. I didn’t have much room for error or creativity.

They are telling us we are supposed to know our place.

It's because posters on this site time and again show disdain for students who study the liberal arts, or more accurately the humanities. No one needs disdain the other. Everyone has a different path.

It's kind of ridiculous to condescendingly call a STEM degree a "vocational school." An engineering degree imparts actual knowledge, just like a liberal arts degree.
Yes, it may be different knowledge, but it's hardly inferior knowledge. I have a MA and a JD, but I doubt I would have made it through an engineering degree.

It's vocational in the sense that it is job training. There has been ongoing tension with respect to whether education should be primarily about training young people for jobs or have a broader mission to prepare them to be more fully integrated humans and citizens.

you learn those in high school and at home.
how can people be fully integrated humans and citizens without good jobs LOL

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why such disdain for those majoring in “vocational” degrees? I majored in accounting because as someone with few means, I needed something that would get me straight into a job. I didn’t have much room for error or creativity.

They are telling us we are supposed to know our place.

It's because posters on this site time and again show disdain for students who study the liberal arts, or more accurately the humanities. No one needs disdain the other. Everyone has a different path.

It's kind of ridiculous to condescendingly call a STEM degree a "vocational school." An engineering degree imparts actual knowledge, just like a liberal arts degree.
Yes, it may be different knowledge, but it's hardly inferior knowledge. I have a MA and a JD, but I doubt I would have made it through an engineering degree.

It's vocational in the sense that it is job training. There has been ongoing tension with respect to whether education should be primarily about training young people for jobs or have a broader mission to prepare them to be more fully integrated humans and citizens.

How is a nurse, for example, not “integrated with citizens”??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why such disdain for those majoring in “vocational” degrees? I majored in accounting because as someone with few means, I needed something that would get me straight into a job. I didn’t have much room for error or creativity.

They are telling us we are supposed to know our place.

It's because posters on this site time and again show disdain for students who study the liberal arts, or more accurately the humanities. No one needs disdain the other. Everyone has a different path.

It's kind of ridiculous to condescendingly call a STEM degree a "vocational school." An engineering degree imparts actual knowledge, just like a liberal arts degree.
Yes, it may be different knowledge, but it's hardly inferior knowledge. I have a MA and a JD, but I doubt I would have made it through an engineering degree.

It's vocational in the sense that it is job training. There has been ongoing tension with respect to whether education should be primarily about training young people for jobs or have a broader mission to prepare them to be more fully integrated humans and citizens.