Anonymous
01/10/2022 16:46
Subject: Toddlers at the Funeral
My husband didn't support me when my dad died six years ago. Didn't go to the funeral and created a ridiculous amount of drama around himself. It was like he just couldn't handle not being the center of my attention - yes, he's a total narcissist. I won't ever forget that. I have moved past it, but I will never forget that I was the only one there without my spouse. Same person who, when my dad went into the ICU and I'm frantically trying to get on a plane, said, "well, hang on, let me check my schedule to make sure this [taking care of our daughter solo] works for me." Don't be like that. I know you got a get out of jail free card, but agree with PPs, let it be known you would have done anyway. He needs to know that.
P.S. when, two years ago, my MIL died, I forced my husband to drive down to see her. I had an inkling she was on her last leg, but he wanted to wait until the following weekend when he had one of his long weekends at work. I said nope, we're going, and when we got there and sure enough, I could just see it, that she wouldn't last the week. No one else was able to, so I get OP's point that "married in" folks can see the forest through the trees a little better. I "put my foot down" and got her set up with hospice so she could pass pain-free.
You only get one time to get this right. There's no do-over.
P.S. when, two years ago, my MIL died, I forced my husband to drive down to see her. I had an inkling she was on her last leg, but he wanted to wait until the following weekend when he had one of his long weekends at work. I said nope, we're going, and when we got there and sure enough, I could just see it, that she wouldn't last the week. No one else was able to, so I get OP's point that "married in" folks can see the forest through the trees a little better. I "put my foot down" and got her set up with hospice so she could pass pain-free.
You only get one time to get this right. There's no do-over.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 16:35
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update. Another family member put their foot down on traveling this weekend due to health issues. Some of the kids can’t miss school for a week, so all agreed on spring break timeframe. We’re all going, but it will be in March during spring break. No open casket, just a celebration of life service.
Sounds like you lucked out. If I were you OP I would make sure to tell your husband that you're relieved it worked out, but if it came down to it you would have gone.
I am not someone who is very demanding or dramatic in relationships, but I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not wanting to support me when my parent died.
DP, not OP, but that line in bold is the very definition of dramatic. You just forgot to finish it. "I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not doing what I demand, at a time of pandemic, even if it puts our children at risk of illness that could be mild. Or very serious. Who cares? I'd hold a grudge forever!"
Fixed that for you.
Nah, looks like you are the drama queen.
dp I agree with the previous pp. You are the drama
I'm the PP. There is a common misunderstanding with ultimatums. In some contexts, an ultimatum is toxically manipulative. In others, it gives you a warning that something you can't take back is about to happen. It is hard to know in the moment which version you're in. And perhaps telling someone you are at a crossroads is by definition manipulative? Regardless, I didn't say I would make the kind of ultimatum that the pp rephrased me as making. I said that I'd have a hard time getting past my spouse not supporting me in a moment like this. I know this is true because my sibling died in my 20s and a friend I had at the time acted absolutely horrendously at the time. And we continued to be friends but for years I could not forget how incredibly selfish she was in my moment of crushing grief and need. How she put her own feelings above my own and made me manage her emotions when I was really needing to be the person being supported. Her DH might not be able to articulate in this moment that they are at an inflection point, but you don't get that many opportunities in a relationship (hopefully) to prove that when the chips are down, you step up and hold your partner up. If you don't rise to the occasion when they happen, people remember. And not showing up to your spouse's parent's funeral is the kind of thing that you just can't take back. It would be unfortunate for OP to only realize this after the fact.
THIS.
+100. My mother died 7 years ago after a battle with dementia. Amazing how people show their colors and say "well I already had plans for that day" at time of services. It cuts deep.
OP: I hear you on all the challenges of traveling and covid and little kids, I do. I also have been your spouse and when a parent dies, no matter what the situation, it's awful and sucks. Just tread lightly with him. And I agree with a PP that even though the services are postponed and that might feel good to you, it will feel heavy and awful until the time he is able to say a formal goodbye with a service. That in-between time is hard. Just be gentle with each other.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 16:28
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update. Another family member put their foot down on traveling this weekend due to health issues. Some of the kids can’t miss school for a week, so all agreed on spring break timeframe. We’re all going, but it will be in March during spring break. No open casket, just a celebration of life service.
Sounds like you lucked out. If I were you OP I would make sure to tell your husband that you're relieved it worked out, but if it came down to it you would have gone.
I am not someone who is very demanding or dramatic in relationships, but I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not wanting to support me when my parent died.
DP, not OP, but that line in bold is the very definition of dramatic. You just forgot to finish it. "I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not doing what I demand, at a time of pandemic, even if it puts our children at risk of illness that could be mild. Or very serious. Who cares? I'd hold a grudge forever!"
Fixed that for you.
Nah, looks like you are the drama queen.
dp I agree with the previous pp. You are the drama
I'm the PP. There is a common misunderstanding with ultimatums. In some contexts, an ultimatum is toxically manipulative. In others, it gives you a warning that something you can't take back is about to happen. It is hard to know in the moment which version you're in. And perhaps telling someone you are at a crossroads is by definition manipulative? Regardless, I didn't say I would make the kind of ultimatum that the pp rephrased me as making. I said that I'd have a hard time getting past my spouse not supporting me in a moment like this. I know this is true because my sibling died in my 20s and a friend I had at the time acted absolutely horrendously at the time. And we continued to be friends but for years I could not forget how incredibly selfish she was in my moment of crushing grief and need. How she put her own feelings above my own and made me manage her emotions when I was really needing to be the person being supported. Her DH might not be able to articulate in this moment that they are at an inflection point, but you don't get that many opportunities in a relationship (hopefully) to prove that when the chips are down, you step up and hold your partner up. If you don't rise to the occasion when they happen, people remember. And not showing up to your spouse's parent's funeral is the kind of thing that you just can't take back. It would be unfortunate for OP to only realize this after the fact.
THIS.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 15:15
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update. Another family member put their foot down on traveling this weekend due to health issues. Some of the kids can’t miss school for a week, so all agreed on spring break timeframe. We’re all going, but it will be in March during spring break. No open casket, just a celebration of life service.
Sounds like you lucked out. If I were you OP I would make sure to tell your husband that you're relieved it worked out, but if it came down to it you would have gone.
I am not someone who is very demanding or dramatic in relationships, but I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not wanting to support me when my parent died.
DP, not OP, but that line in bold is the very definition of dramatic. You just forgot to finish it. "I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not doing what I demand, at a time of pandemic, even if it puts our children at risk of illness that could be mild. Or very serious. Who cares? I'd hold a grudge forever!"
Fixed that for you.
Nah, looks like you are the drama queen.
dp I agree with the previous pp. You are the drama
I'm the PP. There is a common misunderstanding with ultimatums. In some contexts, an ultimatum is toxically manipulative. In others, it gives you a warning that something you can't take back is about to happen. It is hard to know in the moment which version you're in. And perhaps telling someone you are at a crossroads is by definition manipulative? Regardless, I didn't say I would make the kind of ultimatum that the pp rephrased me as making. I said that I'd have a hard time getting past my spouse not supporting me in a moment like this. I know this is true because my sibling died in my 20s and a friend I had at the time acted absolutely horrendously at the time. And we continued to be friends but for years I could not forget how incredibly selfish she was in my moment of crushing grief and need. How she put her own feelings above my own and made me manage her emotions when I was really needing to be the person being supported. Her DH might not be able to articulate in this moment that they are at an inflection point, but you don't get that many opportunities in a relationship (hopefully) to prove that when the chips are down, you step up and hold your partner up. If you don't rise to the occasion when they happen, people remember. And not showing up to your spouse's parent's funeral is the kind of thing that you just can't take back. It would be unfortunate for OP to only realize this after the fact.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 15:08
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update. Another family member put their foot down on traveling this weekend due to health issues. Some of the kids can’t miss school for a week, so all agreed on spring break timeframe. We’re all going, but it will be in March during spring break. No open casket, just a celebration of life service.
Sounds like you lucked out. If I were you OP I would make sure to tell your husband that you're relieved it worked out, but if it came down to it you would have gone.
I am not someone who is very demanding or dramatic in relationships, but I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not wanting to support me when my parent died.
Agreed. There is something about OP’s tone that feels very callous: “put their foot down” -as if having a funeral right after someone’s death was somehow unusual or completely off the wall request. OP, I really hope you are just not good at written expression because if you are conveying these feelings to your spouse, you are as self-centered in person as your are in print. Good luck on your marriage. You clearly need it.
Did you miss the part where the family had been gathered in Wyoming over the holidays? I'm not sure what is callous about relating that another relative refused to travel at this time. Sounds like someone made a needed decision based on common sense.
I totally agree and I don’t understand why OP has been vilified by a couple of posters on this forum. I also always assume that the tone people use on an anonymous forum isn’t the same tone that they would use with their loved ones. The whole point of these forums is to quickly convey the info to anonymous neutral third parties for advice. It’s not an exercise in diplomacy.
I am the bolded PP, and it is my first time posting on the thread, and I read the whole thread. OP's tone comes across extremely callous. She sounds annoyed. And yes the 'put my foot down' line made me bristle just like it did the other PP. I also found this line from the OP very off putting:
All folks married into the family were expecting this, it was just a matter of time. The siblings and surviving parent are in shock and blaming themselves for not being able to save the other parent.
It reads like she thinks the immediate family was being silly or ignorant for not coming to grips with a tragedy, and like the in laws were all standing around looking at their watch while the family struggled.
This too:
I told my husband that he needs to go and me and the kids (two three year old toddlers) will stay home and watch service online. I mean I will watch it online.
Which sounds like, 'I can't go but obviously I'll make time to stream it on the internet.' Had that sentence been phrased, 'I told my husband of course he needs to go and we will support him but with all the upheaval of the last month it might be better if me and the kids participate virtually' even that would come across different. But this just compounds the tone of OP being impatient about the death of her husband's parent. Your spouse should not sound impatient when talking about you grieving one of the most influential people in your entire life.
In my family/culture, children participate in funerals. They are a part of it. It is a celebration in addition to a mourning and a time when the extended family bonds. OP might feel differently about funerals, but again, she doesn't sound interested in her husband's perspective on this, she has no curiosity about his grief. Maybe her husband is a jerk and she just doesn't have much sympathy left to give him. But that lack of sympathy is dripping off her words, and if she loves him, and he's been picking up on this, she would benefit from trying to show that she does care.
Oops I forgot to bold my PP. Did just to identify myself.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 15:07
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update. Another family member put their foot down on traveling this weekend due to health issues. Some of the kids can’t miss school for a week, so all agreed on spring break timeframe. We’re all going, but it will be in March during spring break. No open casket, just a celebration of life service.
Sounds like you lucked out. If I were you OP I would make sure to tell your husband that you're relieved it worked out, but if it came down to it you would have gone.
I am not someone who is very demanding or dramatic in relationships, but I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not wanting to support me when my parent died.
Agreed. There is something about OP’s tone that feels very callous: “put their foot down” -as if having a funeral right after someone’s death was somehow unusual or completely off the wall request. OP, I really hope you are just not good at written expression because if you are conveying these feelings to your spouse, you are as self-centered in person as your are in print. Good luck on your marriage. You clearly need it.
Did you miss the part where the family had been gathered in Wyoming over the holidays? I'm not sure what is callous about relating that another relative refused to travel at this time. Sounds like someone made a needed decision based on common sense.
I totally agree and I don’t understand why OP has been vilified by a couple of posters on this forum. I also always assume that the tone people use on an anonymous forum isn’t the same tone that they would use with their loved ones. The whole point of these forums is to quickly convey the info to anonymous neutral third parties for advice. It’s not an exercise in diplomacy.
I am the bolded PP, and it is my first time posting on the thread, and I read the whole thread. OP's tone comes across extremely callous. She sounds annoyed. And yes the 'put my foot down' line made me bristle just like it did the other PP. I also found this line from the OP very off putting:
All folks married into the family were expecting this, it was just a matter of time. The siblings and surviving parent are in shock and blaming themselves for not being able to save the other parent.
It reads like she thinks the immediate family was being silly or ignorant for not coming to grips with a tragedy, and like the in laws were all standing around looking at their watch while the family struggled.
This too:
I told my husband that he needs to go and me and the kids (two three year old toddlers) will stay home and watch service online. I mean I will watch it online.
Which sounds like, 'I can't go but obviously I'll make time to stream it on the internet.' Had that sentence been phrased, 'I told my husband of course he needs to go and we will support him but with all the upheaval of the last month it might be better if me and the kids participate virtually' even that would come across different. But this just compounds the tone of OP being impatient about the death of her husband's parent. Your spouse should not sound impatient when talking about you grieving one of the most influential people in your entire life.
In my family/culture, children participate in funerals. They are a part of it. It is a celebration in addition to a mourning and a time when the extended family bonds. OP might feel differently about funerals, but again, she doesn't sound interested in her husband's perspective on this, she has no curiosity about his grief. Maybe her husband is a jerk and she just doesn't have much sympathy left to give him. But that lack of sympathy is dripping off her words, and if she loves him, and he's been picking up on this, she would benefit from trying to show that she does care.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 12:26
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update. Another family member put their foot down on traveling this weekend due to health issues. Some of the kids can’t miss school for a week, so all agreed on spring break timeframe. We’re all going, but it will be in March during spring break. No open casket, just a celebration of life service.
Sounds like you lucked out. If I were you OP I would make sure to tell your husband that you're relieved it worked out, but if it came down to it you would have gone.
I am not someone who is very demanding or dramatic in relationships, but I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not wanting to support me when my parent died.
DP, not OP, but that line in bold is the very definition of dramatic. You just forgot to finish it. "I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not doing what I demand, at a time of pandemic, even if it puts our children at risk of illness that could be mild. Or very serious. Who cares? I'd hold a grudge forever!"
Fixed that for you.
Nah, looks like you are the drama queen.
dp I agree with the previous pp. You are the drama
Anonymous
01/10/2022 12:24
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update. Another family member put their foot down on traveling this weekend due to health issues. Some of the kids can’t miss school for a week, so all agreed on spring break timeframe. We’re all going, but it will be in March during spring break. No open casket, just a celebration of life service.
Sounds like you lucked out. If I were you OP I would make sure to tell your husband that you're relieved it worked out, but if it came down to it you would have gone.
I am not someone who is very demanding or dramatic in relationships, but I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not wanting to support me when my parent died.
DP, not OP, but that line in bold is the very definition of dramatic. You just forgot to finish it. "I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not doing what I demand, at a time of pandemic, even if it puts our children at risk of illness that could be mild. Or very serious. Who cares? I'd hold a grudge forever!"
Fixed that for you.
Nah, looks like you are the drama queen.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 12:23
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
OP, I'm another one here who has posted a couple of times to support you. I'm glad things worked out for now, I really am. I would add, though, that this is more a case of kicking the issue down the road. You and DH did not have to work out a decision between you, the choice was basically made for you by others saying that travel at this time for everyone is a bad idea. When things are calmer, and there isn't a crisis and a deadline for decisions looming, maybe you and DH need to talk about the idea of what "support" for each other really looks like. I would not do it now, though, since clearly he is going to be wound up with grieving for a while.
I note in the very first post you mentioned that all the "married-in" family members (you and the other spouses of the siblings?) expected FIL's death, yet MIL and others are feeling they should have somehow done something more, etc. Do I have that right? It sounds as if maybe the family members aren't great at looking serious illness or death square in the eye and acknowledging it if someone is truly on the way out. That's knowledge to keep in mind for the future, because it will mean the next time there is a serious illness in the family there might be denial going on, maybe. Just a thought. Only you know the details and whether that's remotely right, though. I'm sorry about your FIL and hope your DH is going to cope OK. I also wish you well, and think your position was the right one all along.
I note in the very first post you mentioned that all the "married-in" family members (you and the other spouses of the siblings?) expected FIL's death, yet MIL and others are feeling they should have somehow done something more, etc. Do I have that right? It sounds as if maybe the family members aren't great at looking serious illness or death square in the eye and acknowledging it if someone is truly on the way out. That's knowledge to keep in mind for the future, because it will mean the next time there is a serious illness in the family there might be denial going on, maybe. Just a thought. Only you know the details and whether that's remotely right, though. I'm sorry about your FIL and hope your DH is going to cope OK. I also wish you well, and think your position was the right one all along.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 12:16
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update. Another family member put their foot down on traveling this weekend due to health issues. Some of the kids can’t miss school for a week, so all agreed on spring break timeframe. We’re all going, but it will be in March during spring break. No open casket, just a celebration of life service.
Sounds like you lucked out. If I were you OP I would make sure to tell your husband that you're relieved it worked out, but if it came down to it you would have gone.
I am not someone who is very demanding or dramatic in relationships, but I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not wanting to support me when my parent died.
DP, not OP, but that line in bold is the very definition of dramatic. You just forgot to finish it. "I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not doing what I demand, at a time of pandemic, even if it puts our children at risk of illness that could be mild. Or very serious. Who cares? I'd hold a grudge forever!"
Fixed that for you.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 11:32
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update. Another family member put their foot down on traveling this weekend due to health issues. Some of the kids can’t miss school for a week, so all agreed on spring break timeframe. We’re all going, but it will be in March during spring break. No open casket, just a celebration of life service.
Sounds like you lucked out. If I were you OP I would make sure to tell your husband that you're relieved it worked out, but if it came down to it you would have gone.
I am not someone who is very demanding or dramatic in relationships, but I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not wanting to support me when my parent died.
Agreed. There is something about OP’s tone that feels very callous: “put their foot down” -as if having a funeral right after someone’s death was somehow unusual or completely off the wall request. OP, I really hope you are just not good at written expression because if you are conveying these feelings to your spouse, you are as self-centered in person as your are in print. Good luck on your marriage. You clearly need it.
Did you miss the part where the family had been gathered in Wyoming over the holidays? I'm not sure what is callous about relating that another relative refused to travel at this time. Sounds like someone made a needed decision based on common sense.
I totally agree and I don’t understand why OP has been vilified by a couple of posters on this forum. I also always assume that the tone people use on an anonymous forum isn’t the same tone that they would use with their loved ones. The whole point of these forums is to quickly convey the info to anonymous neutral third parties for advice. It’s not an exercise in diplomacy.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 11:24
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update. Another family member put their foot down on traveling this weekend due to health issues. Some of the kids can’t miss school for a week, so all agreed on spring break timeframe. We’re all going, but it will be in March during spring break. No open casket, just a celebration of life service.
Sounds like you lucked out. If I were you OP I would make sure to tell your husband that you're relieved it worked out, but if it came down to it you would have gone.
I am not someone who is very demanding or dramatic in relationships, but I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not wanting to support me when my parent died.
Agreed. There is something about OP’s tone that feels very callous: “put their foot down” -as if having a funeral right after someone’s death was somehow unusual or completely off the wall request. OP, I really hope you are just not good at written expression because if you are conveying these feelings to your spouse, you are as self-centered in person as your are in print. Good luck on your marriage. You clearly need it.
Did you miss the part where the family had been gathered in Wyoming over the holidays? I'm not sure what is callous about relating that another relative refused to travel at this time. Sounds like someone made a needed decision based on common sense.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 11:19
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update. Another family member put their foot down on traveling this weekend due to health issues. Some of the kids can’t miss school for a week, so all agreed on spring break timeframe. We’re all going, but it will be in March during spring break. No open casket, just a celebration of life service.
Great news, op! And I was one of the posters who supported your decision. Win-win.
Same here. Glad it worked out.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 11:11
Subject: Re:Toddlers at the Funeral
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update. Another family member put their foot down on traveling this weekend due to health issues. Some of the kids can’t miss school for a week, so all agreed on spring break timeframe. We’re all going, but it will be in March during spring break. No open casket, just a celebration of life service.
Sounds like you lucked out. If I were you OP I would make sure to tell your husband that you're relieved it worked out, but if it came down to it you would have gone.
I am not someone who is very demanding or dramatic in relationships, but I would have trouble putting behind me my spouse not wanting to support me when my parent died.
Agreed. There is something about OP’s tone that feels very callous: “put their foot down” -as if having a funeral right after someone’s death was somehow unusual or completely off the wall request. OP, I really hope you are just not good at written expression because if you are conveying these feelings to your spouse, you are as self-centered in person as your are in print. Good luck on your marriage. You clearly need it.
Anonymous
01/10/2022 10:43
Subject: Toddlers at the Funeral
OP I’m glad the trip worked out for March. Please understand that grief is a tricky thing, and by delaying the “closure” (inadequate word) of a funeral surrounded by loved ones, your husband may be quite emotional over the next few weeks in ways that aren’t as clear cut as grief emotion. Anger, irritability, withdrawal. Or he could go in the opposite direction and seem totally fine, but inside be in turmoil. Just keep being there for him. I’m sorry for your family’s loss.