Anonymous
11/12/2021 10:53
Subject: Re:Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
Anonymous wrote:I mean, the original question was answered at the beginning of the thread.
Totally. On the narrow question of "best high school placement," this thread could've ended after the first few posts. Like you said, there is no best feeder for 9th. Someone should be copy/pasting that in all future K-8 threads on the topic. Of course we then got 10+ pages of tangential discussions that were (at least to me) somewhat interesting, with your typical DCUM contentiousness sprinkled in.
Anonymous
11/12/2021 10:27
Subject: Re:Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The objective of a K-12 school isn't to create the smartest cohort of 9th graders possible. They're building a community.
They can hit their "academic"/SAT/college admissions goals by having 80% or 90% (or whatever) of academically focused, driven kids. The final 10-20% can be filled with less academically qualified kids who are admitted for other reasons. The schools expect this and function just fine with it. Maybe these kids are siblings. It isn't Thomas Jefferson where every last kid is driven. So Sidwell has an average SAT of 1450 and Thomas Jefferson's is 1530. Big deal. But for this tradeoff Sidwell is able to pay their teachers ($$) and make the experience more enjoyable for their students (good athletes for competitive teams). Their academic identify and mission continues unscathed.
So true and good for parents who are considering k8s to know ahead of time, if a school like Sidwell is appealing to them. But this really isn’t answering the original question as to which k8s have the best outcomes for all their students.
I mean, the original question was answered at the beginning of the thread. The schools with relatively established pipelines - Sheridan, St. Patricks, Norwood, Lowell, WES, Langley, etc. are all fairly similar and the individual characteristics of the kid/family matter more. And to the extent there are differences among the schools it reflects the cohort of kids more than anything. Sheridan is strong at GDS because a lot of kids and families who would be good fits for GDS go to Sheridan. If you put the same kid at Langley the results aren’t likely to be wildly different. There are some school relationship effects, but in most cases they are drowned out by other factors. And individual characteristics of a class at a school can matter if there are like a lot of GDS siblings if your class. This kind of issue is probably somewhat more likely at the bigger K8s but can happen anywhere. So there is no one best “feeder” K8 that you can rely on. It just depends on factors you aren’t going to know until the end. So if you are a family who doesn’t have strong ex ante preferences of future upper schools, K8 is likely to work for you. And if at the end you are like I think single-sex is best for my smart and sporty boy who plays sportball whatever, so sporty school X is my first choice, the school is likely going to help you achieve that because that is a doable admission they can sell sporty school X. But if you are like my kid is smart with good grades and SSAT scores and my first choice is Big 3 school X, Langley isn’t going to necessarily help you hit that first choice. There are a lot of smart kids applying for those spots with good grades and scores. For that kid you are way better off applying early to Big X because admission is probably somewhat easier in the lower schools.
Anonymous
11/12/2021 09:07
Subject: Re:Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
Anonymous wrote:The objective of a K-12 school isn't to create the smartest cohort of 9th graders possible. They're building a community.
They can hit their "academic"/SAT/college admissions goals by having 80% or 90% (or whatever) of academically focused, driven kids. The final 10-20% can be filled with less academically qualified kids who are admitted for other reasons. The schools expect this and function just fine with it. Maybe these kids are siblings. It isn't Thomas Jefferson where every last kid is driven. So Sidwell has an average SAT of 1450 and Thomas Jefferson's is 1530. Big deal. But for this tradeoff Sidwell is able to pay their teachers ($$) and make the experience more enjoyable for their students (good athletes for competitive teams). Their academic identify and mission continues unscathed.
No. The 9th grade admission class at Sidwell is definitely not 20% George Bush / Hunter Biden gentleman’s C type kids.
Those VIP kids exist, but they don’t arrive in 9th. They’re already there by 9th and will be graduating together with the new admits. Which is why the 9th grade admit cohort skews hard toward intrinsic merit (which increasingly includes athletes…)
Anonymous
11/12/2021 08:48
Subject: Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would just like to dispel the myth posted several times in this thread that Sidwell or St. Albans upper school will select an 8th grade younger sibling over more qualified 8th grade applicants from a K-8. The sibling hook may tip the balance when two applicants are otherwise equal. But neither upper school admissions team is blithely accepting kids into UPPER school just because they're family.
No, they absolutely will take a less qualified sibling, especially if the sibling is from a family that has a history of giving money (to the high school). They need to keep their donating families happy because they rely on donations to bridge the gap between tuition and operating expenses. I have kids at Sidwell/STA and it 1000% happens. It happened this past year and it happens every year.
I’m a PP. We may be talking about different schools. I am talking about Sidwell upper school and I’ll stand by my assertion that it doesn’t choose less qualified development case siblings for its 9th grade class, “every year”
As a practical matter, those kids are admitted well before 9th. Usually preK/k or 4th
Would you be willing to be more concrete and use specifics about the methodology you’re applying to rank qualifications? Do you know the GPAs and SSATs of each kid? Do you know how STA weight theater/debate prowess vs. athleticism vs sibling status? I don’t
I will admit that I don’t actually know what Sidwell priorotized when making offers to kids from my kids’ k-8. There is at least one family where the subsequent siblings attend elsewhere
Anonymous
11/12/2021 08:21
Subject: Re:Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
Anonymous wrote:The objective of a K-12 school isn't to create the smartest cohort of 9th graders possible. They're building a community.
They can hit their "academic"/SAT/college admissions goals by having 80% or 90% (or whatever) of academically focused, driven kids. The final 10-20% can be filled with less academically qualified kids who are admitted for other reasons. The schools expect this and function just fine with it. Maybe these kids are siblings. It isn't Thomas Jefferson where every last kid is driven. So Sidwell has an average SAT of 1450 and Thomas Jefferson's is 1530. Big deal. But for this tradeoff Sidwell is able to pay their teachers ($$) and make the experience more enjoyable for their students (good athletes for competitive teams). Their academic identify and mission continues unscathed.
So true and good for parents who are considering k8s to know ahead of time, if a school like Sidwell is appealing to them. But this really isn’t answering the original question as to which k8s have the best outcomes for all their students.
Anonymous
11/12/2021 07:56
Subject: Re:Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
The objective of a K-12 school isn't to create the smartest cohort of 9th graders possible. They're building a community.
They can hit their "academic"/SAT/college admissions goals by having 80% or 90% (or whatever) of academically focused, driven kids. The final 10-20% can be filled with less academically qualified kids who are admitted for other reasons. The schools expect this and function just fine with it. Maybe these kids are siblings. It isn't Thomas Jefferson where every last kid is driven. So Sidwell has an average SAT of 1450 and Thomas Jefferson's is 1530. Big deal. But for this tradeoff Sidwell is able to pay their teachers ($$) and make the experience more enjoyable for their students (good athletes for competitive teams). Their academic identify and mission continues unscathed.
They can hit their "academic"/SAT/college admissions goals by having 80% or 90% (or whatever) of academically focused, driven kids. The final 10-20% can be filled with less academically qualified kids who are admitted for other reasons. The schools expect this and function just fine with it. Maybe these kids are siblings. It isn't Thomas Jefferson where every last kid is driven. So Sidwell has an average SAT of 1450 and Thomas Jefferson's is 1530. Big deal. But for this tradeoff Sidwell is able to pay their teachers ($$) and make the experience more enjoyable for their students (good athletes for competitive teams). Their academic identify and mission continues unscathed.
Anonymous
11/12/2021 06:21
Subject: Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
Anonymous wrote:And so much of it, especially how many siblings and legacies are in your kid’s particular class, is completely out of your control. Total luck of the draw.
Yes, you have no idea when you enter a K8 at a lower grade how the makeup of that cohort might effect your child’s Hs placement. Either way those schools will prepare a child for Hs it just might end up not being their top choice school as they might have gotten in earlier.
Anonymous
11/12/2021 00:34
Subject: Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
Anonymous wrote:I would just like to dispel the myth posted several times in this thread that Sidwell or St. Albans upper school will select an 8th grade younger sibling over more qualified 8th grade applicants from a K-8. The sibling hook may tip the balance when two applicants are otherwise equal. But neither upper school admissions team is blithely accepting kids into UPPER school just because they're family. [/quo
false. I’ve seen it happen over and over. It’s just to difficult to say “no” to an established family in the community.
Anonymous
11/12/2021 00:24
Subject: Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:But why wait until 8th grade to “take advantage” of the sibling preference? Our older child is at a Big 3 and we’re going to apply for the younger sibling at the next entry year. Definitely not waiting until 9th grade admissions.
So, you don’t like your current school. Got it.
More like, our current school ends before 8th grade so why wouldn't we apply to the sibling's school instead of looking for a new school?
So you have to apply for either a k-8 or a k-12? If you aren’t in a k-8, of course you need to apply before 8th. How is this relevant to those in a k-8?
Just because the situations aren't exactly the same, doesn't make them irrelevant to each other.
Let's take Sidwell for example. They expand at 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, and 9th. If you have an older sibling there already, setting aside the logistical benefits on having both kids at one school, whether the younger sibling is at a PK/K-8, PK/K-6, etc. the potential considerations are similar.
Do you want the younger sibling to spend 8/9 years at the first school then 4 at Sidwell? Or is 6/7 and 6 preferable so that you have a more even split between the two schools? Or 4/5 and 8 to maximize time with the older sibling? Someone at a PK/K-8 could choose any one of these options and it would be justifiable IMO.
Better to move as soon as possible so the less studious younger sib isn’t competing at ninth where merit matters more.
Anonymous
11/12/2021 00:21
Subject: Re:Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
But at a K-12, the school is not going to advise and help you with outplacement, versus at a K-8 they do. We found it useful to hear at which HS the teachers thought our kids would be good fits.
Anonymous
11/11/2021 23:55
Subject: Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We are not sure what will be best for HS, that is why we are looking at k-8. Thinking our child will have a say once looking at HS. Is there a thought if which K-8 prepares the kids best for whatever HS they choose??
YAY! This is a great reason to look at k-8. We love that our children had a say once looking at HS. It also helped them have a sense of ownership once they were in high school, since it was a school that they had considered and chosen. Relatedly, it also made the college process easier, since they had already gone through the process of applying to high school. Our children told us that they thought the college application process was much smoother and less stressful for them than it was for their K-12 lifer friends.
I still don’t understand why a k-12 eliminates any of these options? We chose one bc it’s insurance that our kids will have a wonderful high school. They each know that in 8th grade if they want to explore other schools we will fully support that. Some of their older friends have looked at other schools but so far the only ones to leave have been for boarding. I always see k-8 boosters say that they get the whole support of the school when applying out. Well the same thing happens at our k-12. We also have friends w/ kids in 9th who hate that so much of their 8th grade (at k-8) was spent going through the process of applying. Instead our kids are at the top of their school division and get to spend time getting oriented w/ the upper school.
We also chose a k-12 bc, contrary to what people on here say, it seemed to be the best of both worlds. Our kids get the facilities that are only possible at k-12 but still get the feel of smaller schools as they go through the younger divisions. They also get to interact with the older kids, both academically and socially, and that creates a wonderful sense of community.
Finally, I was at an admissions presentation, and the stats for getting in were crazy. I think the acceptance rate for K was somewhere around 40%. It dropped at each entry year and by 9th it was as down to something like 11%. Just on a pure numbers basis, I wouldn’t want my 8th graders to deal with those odds.
Right. You don’t get it. And nothing that anyone might say is going to convince you. You’ve heard the arguments and you just don’t agree with them. And that’s OK.
I am not trying to argue which is better, I am just saying the argument that your 8th grader can decide which high school is a better fit is idiotic bc so can any 8th grader at a k-12
No, this is not true at all. There is so much negative momentum against moving to a new high school when you are at a K-12. Especially if the 8th grader is doing well academically. But that doesn't mean that the current school is a good fit.
Anonymous
11/11/2021 23:23
Subject: Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
And so much of it, especially how many siblings and legacies are in your kid’s particular class, is completely out of your control. Total luck of the draw.
Anonymous
11/11/2021 22:05
Subject: Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Following up on the question about WES above, we have a ninth grader who just went through the application process last year and who is very happy with where she landed.
WES did an amazing job of thinking with us--bolstered by discussions the head of school and head of middle school had with the teachers in preparation--about the best fit for our daughter. In a year when the entire admissions process was completely kerfluey, and no one knew what would happen, we got thoughtful advice, and they were helpful and supportive at each step of the way.
It's notable that that list of where the recent grads are includes so many great schools, but what's even more important is that the students who are at each of those places are there for the right reasons. "Fit" isn't jut lip service at WES--they really did help us think smartly and strategically, and DD is having a great year.
So where there siblings of students at GDS and Sidwell etc that did not get in but other non-siblings did that were a “fit”? Or did the school steer non sibling families away from those schools so that everyone thinks they got their first choice?
Would love to hear from current families on this. The schools constantly say that x% of kids go to their first or second choice. I suspect they also steer kids away from falling in love with certain schools (or being very discouraging) if they know there are say, 3 siblings/ VIPs in the class whose heart is set on that school.
Exactly this. The k8 schools never mention this and the parents of the siblings and VIP parents will not tell you this when they are sitting on the "happy parents" panel as part of the info sessions when they talk about how positive the ex-missions process was for their family. They won't say their child wasn't "top 10 percent of the class", which seems to be the myth of getting into a Big 3 from a k8, because let's face it, some siblings might fall in that category but nowhere near all siblings or VIP's kids are. Those are the kids that the VIP parents say have a great personality and that they just interview really well (which might very well be true, but the money they bring helps too). They won't say that they got lucky with the first kid and the rest just got admitted when their turns came because of that older sibling. They won't tell you the pattern I have noticed that most of the kids admitted to a Big 3 from the k8s I am familiar with have parents who are either on the k8 Board, donate over 10-15k per year, or have a big hook, or of course are legacy/siblings. Often a mixture of these. The myth of only or oldest children (who are applying to Big 3 schools)getting into their best fit is simply that at many k8s if you are talking about a kid with the unlucky situation of being in a grade with many sibling applicants and VIPs who want the same schools. 9th grade admissions is a numbers game as was said before. I know nothing of WES. Also true above is that there are likely not 15 applicants to X school per grade, but if hard to get in X school only takes roughly 2-3 applicants from each k8 and your kid has 3 siblings in their grade applying there you can guess what is likely to happen, so that sort of eliminates it as being your kids "first choice" even if you really felt it was. I know nothing about StA and Sidwell. As a PP said above, their sibling preference might not be as strong, but they only take around 1-2 kids per k8 per year, so again, you have to think your kid's chances are low if there is a sibling classmate or VIP/large donor family applying also. I think OP was originally asking about this in the context of GDS type schools so OP should know that the have a better shot of getting in at K.
Yep. It’s a mystery why PP’s kid didn’t get into PP’s preferred school.
I’m actually the PP but I was not unhappy with how things ended up. My daughter was however at the time, because at age 14 it was the first time she got a glimpse of the realities of this sort of advantage given in lieu of hard work paying off. It was not lost of her that siblings got in even if they were not as involved or as studious as those who were waitlisted and ended up at their 3rd choice. The kids know each other for many years at a K8, so they know who works hard and who is really smart, or not. As a parent I feel bad she didn’t get in for 9th where she would have had a great chance of getting in earlier based on how many schools she did get in for K. But I was a bit naive then and drank the cool aid about ex-missions and “best fit” and didn’t know all of the above then. There’s nothing wrong with passing along information I would have loved to have had many years ago when we were making these kinds of decisions. This is the sort of breakdown of how things can actually play out that you don’t get at admissions events. It’s not sour grapes but simply passing on to younger parents what I wish I had be given, which is a clear picture before making a decision about K8 downsides. There are many positives too but ex-missions is definitely more complex than the schools disclose.
Anonymous
11/11/2021 21:12
Subject: Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:But why wait until 8th grade to “take advantage” of the sibling preference? Our older child is at a Big 3 and we’re going to apply for the younger sibling at the next entry year. Definitely not waiting until 9th grade admissions.
So, you don’t like your current school. Got it.
More like, our current school ends before 8th grade so why wouldn't we apply to the sibling's school instead of looking for a new school?
So you have to apply for either a k-8 or a k-12? If you aren’t in a k-8, of course you need to apply before 8th. How is this relevant to those in a k-8?
Just because the situations aren't exactly the same, doesn't make them irrelevant to each other.
Let's take Sidwell for example. They expand at 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, and 9th. If you have an older sibling there already, setting aside the logistical benefits on having both kids at one school, whether the younger sibling is at a PK/K-8, PK/K-6, etc. the potential considerations are similar.
Do you want the younger sibling to spend 8/9 years at the first school then 4 at Sidwell? Or is 6/7 and 6 preferable so that you have a more even split between the two schools? Or 4/5 and 8 to maximize time with the older sibling? Someone at a PK/K-8 could choose any one of these options and it would be justifiable IMO.
Anonymous
11/11/2021 20:57
Subject: Which K-8 has the best high school placement?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:But why wait until 8th grade to “take advantage” of the sibling preference? Our older child is at a Big 3 and we’re going to apply for the younger sibling at the next entry year. Definitely not waiting until 9th grade admissions.
So, you don’t like your current school. Got it.
Not the PP, but it's a wise move. It's no secret that admissions gets progressively harder the later the entry year. Not to mention, it's easier on families logistically to have two kids at the same school. You don't need to dislike your current K-8 to decide to apply out early.
Can you still get recommendations if you apply out early? If you don’t get in, do you get a cold shoulder from the school?
Our experience is you absolutely can get good recommendations if you apply out early and if you end up staying, you aren’t looked at any differently. At our k-12, 9th grade begins upper school so is a fresh start for everyone as far as division heads, deans, teachers, etc