Anonymous wrote:Are most kids at W&L from conservative, Republican or Trumpista families, or is it a mix of Dem and R? My son is at a school with too many QAnon adherents and he’s looking to transfer.

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Anonymous wrote:There's definitely that southern WASP-y Garden and Gun culture, but also a lot of kids from NY/NJ/PA. Diversity is living on the Mainline vs. McLean, lol. Ultra preppy, wealthy students who are actually smart and study a lot.

There is a strong work hard, play hard culture aka partying is very important. The school has made it difficult to have alcohol on campus so students rent houses out in the country, leading to some terrible drunk driving tragedies.

https://roanoke.com/news/virginia/drunken-driver-in-crash-that-killed-w-l-classmate-to-serve-3-years/article_04e2fbc4-a08c-5b07-a8cc-1776a45d7521.html

I think what would give me pause about W&L is that the profs grade very hard. So GPAs are lower, putting students who want to go to grad school a disadvantage. The counterargument is "oh, they'll be impressed by the W&L degree" but...hmm.

Very few schools really grade hard any more, and that included W&L. According to Gradeinflation.com, a website that collects average GPAs at schools, the average GPA at W&L was 3.44 in 2015. In comparison, William & Mary was 3.33 in 2014, UVA was 3.32 in 2013, Virginia Tech was 3.15 in 2015, JMU was 3.15 in 2013, and ODU was 2.75 in 2014.

But that doesn't tell you anything really. When you accept people who got mainly all A's in HS and are in the top 3-5% in SATs like W&L, W&M and UVA do, it should be fine to have benchmarked standards about the content/skills rather than a curve. Now that schools are so narrow in their bands of selectivity, the schools that admit top applicants really should have much closer to all A's--if there were some national standards in each field. But the reality is profs implicitly sort of reset the curve for the students they have. So a student at W&L or W&M or UVA who is given the B- is likely doing work that would get an A from JMU/GMU. I say this as a professor who has had to re-calibrate my grading as I have moved from teaching at universities with different levels of students. If you teach at a place like ODU, you're going to have some obvious cases of kids who don't come to class, can't do the work, etc. that make a wider range. But the A student there would probably be making C's at a tougher school. But if you teach a liberal arts college like W&L or W&M or a highly selective flagship like UVA or a rigorous program like engineering at VT-- the students are all in the top percent of the nation. But some will do work that edges out among the others and that becomes the A, while those whose work would earn an A elsewhere, get the B- to A- range. Of course there will always be some who just don't get a subject or skip class a lot and those are the C's-F's, but they are very rare at these top schools.

This is why, in my own graduate admissions process, I look carefully at the rigor of the school attended and argue against flat GPA cut-offs.

I would examine your stereotypes and internal prejudices.

Anonymous wrote:MAGA land

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's definitely that southern WASP-y Garden and Gun culture, but also a lot of kids from NY/NJ/PA. Diversity is living on the Mainline vs. McLean, lol. Ultra preppy, wealthy students who are actually smart and study a lot.

There is a strong work hard, play hard culture aka partying is very important. The school has made it difficult to have alcohol on campus so students rent houses out in the country, leading to some terrible drunk driving tragedies.

https://roanoke.com/news/virginia/drunken-driver-in-crash-that-killed-w-l-classmate-to-serve-3-years/article_04e2fbc4-a08c-5b07-a8cc-1776a45d7521.html

I think what would give me pause about W&L is that the profs grade very hard. So GPAs are lower, putting students who want to go to grad school a disadvantage. The counterargument is "oh, they'll be impressed by the W&L degree" but...hmm.

Very few schools really grade hard any more, and that included W&L. According to Gradeinflation.com, a website that collects average GPAs at schools, the average GPA at W&L was 3.44 in 2015. In comparison, William & Mary was 3.33 in 2014, UVA was 3.32 in 2013, Virginia Tech was 3.15 in 2015, JMU was 3.15 in 2013, and ODU was 2.75 in 2014.

But that doesn't tell you anything really. When you accept people who got mainly all A's in HS and are in the top 3-5% in SATs like W&L, W&M and UVA do, it should be fine to have benchmarked standards about the content/skills rather than a curve. Now that schools are so narrow in their bands of selectivity, the schools that admit top applicants really should have much closer to all A's--if there were some national standards in each field. But the reality is profs implicitly sort of reset the curve for the students they have. So a student at W&L or W&M or UVA who is given the B- is likely doing work that would get an A from JMU/GMU. I say this as a professor who has had to re-calibrate my grading as I have moved from teaching at universities with different levels of students. If you teach at a place like ODU, you're going to have some obvious cases of kids who don't come to class, can't do the work, etc. that make a wider range. But the A student there would probably be making C's at a tougher school. But if you teach a liberal arts college like W&L or W&M or a highly selective flagship like UVA or a rigorous program like engineering at VT-- the students are all in the top percent of the nation. But some will do work that edges out among the others and that becomes the A, while those whose work would earn an A elsewhere, get the B- to A- range. Of course there will always be some who just don't get a subject or skip class a lot and those are the C's-F's, but they are very rare at these top schools.

This is why, in my own graduate admissions process, I look carefully at the rigor of the school attended and argue against flat GPA cut-offs.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:White AF

...but we're trying to be more diverse

Do the freshman drive Mercedes in addition to BMWs now?

I am the PP and we are definitely middle class. Would my daughter feel out of place? She is a scholarship student at a highly rated independent school with a lot of wealthy students and is just fine. Is the student body welcoming and friendly?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White AF

...but we're trying to be more diverse

Do the freshman drive Mercedes in addition to BMWs now?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White AF

...but we're trying to be more diverse

Do the freshman drive Mercedes in addition to BMWs now?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White AF

...but we're trying to be more diverse

Anonymous wrote:White AF

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a daughter who is down to earth, very smart- loves the outdoors and wants a SLAC. She's all A's and B's- lots of AP's. She is open to cultures and open politically. Not a huge partier but she has lots of friends- goes to parties, but isn't a massive drinker. She toured W and L and fell in love with the town and school. We had an extraordinary tour guide who was going on to Law School from Phillie and they clicked. Does this sound like an ok fit? What are the kids like there? I want to hear from real folks who have experience. TIA

Not sure what size school she is looking for, but we toured a ton of VA state schools. The one standout that shocked us was Roanoke College. I know most people here wouldn't even look, but their tour/orientation was incredible. Outstanding school. DC wanted a much larger school but I was incredibly impressed. I've known 3 that have gone there recently and had positive experiences.

Roanoke isn’t a state school.