OP, talk to your attorney. If he wants them in person, tell him the only way they are going is vaccinated. If he does not want them vaccinated, HE will need to homeschool them for safety.

Let it go Op - really truly you are letting internet people and the media wind you up about a non issue. Its not a matter of life and death.

I would just take the kids and get them vaccinated. Let him take you to court, he's not going to get anything from a judge.

I’d preemptively take him to court and ask for an emergency order allowing the children to be fully vaccinated against COVID before school starts. Then you’ve done what needs to happen legally, and the kids are protected.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks PP. you saying “against medical recommendations” gave me an idea- I have an call in to the pediatrician to see if their office has a formal statement/recommendation to vaccinate letter that whey could provide me with or if not- if he would put his recommendation in writing. That might help vs me just saying “what our pediatrician recommends”. Appreciate the help and level headed encouragement.

PP here. To the extent that you can get a pediatrician's recommendation, that would be helpful. I hope you are also using the CDC's specific recommendations for vaccines:https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/adolescents.html

FWIW, I used to work with CPS, and for us, not vaccinating absent documented religious/philosophical objections was considered medical neglect. While I definitely do not recommend calling CPS for this, maybe it is helpful to understand what the child welfare system would see this as. Potentially framing it as medical neglect rather than a disagreement is a better strategy. Either way, I also think you should talk with your lawyer about it as however it shakes out will likely have lawyer involvement.

Thanks PP. you saying “against medical recommendations” gave me an idea- I have an call in to the pediatrician to see if their office has a formal statement/recommendation to vaccinate letter that whey could provide me with or if not- if he would put his recommendation in writing. That might help vs me just saying “what our pediatrician recommends”. Appreciate the help and level headed encouragement.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks PP. We do have a parenting decision maker appointed. In the event of dispute, they have to make a ruling. I had requested an expedited ruling last week and did not receive it, and had to cancel the appointment, now I wait.

I provided pediatrician recommendations, CDC guidelines, our schools mask policy (no mask) and their vaccination record showing that they have been fully vaccinated, previously. They also want to be vaccinated, which at their ages I would hope would be considered. He provided his opinion as a salesperson, nothing else.

I just don't have any case law to use as a basis for what the PDMC might decide, and was wondering how other divorced family may have navigated this, or other vaccination/medical disagreements in the past.

I'm the PP. I have not personally navigated a situation like this, but I do know folks who have been able to get things like refusal to provide recommended medical care considered to affect decision-making power. That said, it sounds like you are basically guaranteed a battle about this, and there is no way for you guys to conceal them taking the vaccine. It'll be in the state database, which he will be able to access, so even if your kids ARE willing to lie, it'll get discovered and then everyone will have more trouble and more hassle.

You are doing the right thing. Continue to impress upon the system that this must be expedited, and be ready to schedule vaccine appts as soon as humanly possible when you prevail, which I am confident will happen eventually.

Thanks PP. We do have a parenting decision maker appointed. In the event of dispute, they have to make a ruling. I had requested an expedited ruling last week and did not receive it, and had to cancel the appointment, now I wait.

I provided pediatrician recommendations, CDC guidelines, our schools mask policy (no mask) and their vaccination record showing that they have been fully vaccinated, previously. They also want to be vaccinated, which at their ages I would hope would be considered. He provided his opinion as a salesperson, nothing else.

I just don't have any case law to use as a basis for what the PDMC might decide, and was wondering how other divorced family may have navigated this, or other vaccination/medical disagreements in the past.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs, please stop advising OP to violate the parenting plan. She has already explained why that's not a good idea. OP, you know better.

What does your parenting plan say about how to resolve disputes, particularly w/r/t medical issues? Me, I'd probably argue it out on the messenging system so that his batsh*t objections, whatever they are, are also in the record. I would record very clearly that Jane and Bobby have asked to be vaccinated so that they can safely attend in person school, that it is already too late for them to be fully vaccinated before school starts, and that further delays only endanger the children's health and safety.

Good luck. Stay strong.

Nope. This is an emergency. OP should have done that in April. But she didn't so now it's vaccination and not telling their father.

Stop crying, OP. Their father will not relent. If he ever changes his mind, THEN you can tell him. What's he going to do?

Calm down. It is important and time sensitive, but it is not "an emergency" that would prevent OP from following (or at least embarking on) whatever the process is for how to resolve disputes. My divorce agreement and custody plan is crystal clear about what we do if we can't agree on a particular issue. I am just saying that OP should try to do this above board because of her ex's previous litigious behavior before going rogue and getting her kids vaccinated against the agreement.

Doing what you're suggesting has very real financial and potentially custodial consequences, which I personally would not be willing to risk for something that is not, in fact, an emergency.

Anonymous wrote:PPs, please stop advising OP to violate the parenting plan. She has already explained why that's not a good idea. OP, you know better.

What does your parenting plan say about how to resolve disputes, particularly w/r/t medical issues? Me, I'd probably argue it out on the messenging system so that his batsh*t objections, whatever they are, are also in the record. I would record very clearly that Jane and Bobby have asked to be vaccinated so that they can safely attend in person school, that it is already too late for them to be fully vaccinated before school starts, and that further delays only endanger the children's health and safety.

Good luck. Stay strong.

Nope. This is an emergency. OP should have done that in April. But she didn't so now it's vaccination and not telling their father.

Stop crying, OP. Their father will not relent. If he ever changes his mind, THEN you can tell him. What's he going to do?

The point stands that Dad was pro vaccination until now. HE got the covid vaccination but now is anti vaccination now that mom has expressed the desire to vaccinate the kids.

Dad will not act in children's best interests, to stick it to mom.

PPs, please stop advising OP to violate the parenting plan. She has already explained why that's not a good idea. OP, you know better.

What does your parenting plan say about how to resolve disputes, particularly w/r/t medical issues? Me, I'd probably argue it out on the messenging system so that his batsh*t objections, whatever they are, are also in the record. I would record very clearly that Jane and Bobby have asked to be vaccinated so that they can safely attend in person school, that it is already too late for them to be fully vaccinated before school starts, and that further delays only endanger the children's health and safety.

Good luck. Stay strong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is vaccinated against covid.
I am vaccinated against covid.
Kids are fully vaccinated.

If kids are fully vaccinated, what's the problem? That contradicts the title of your post. Either they are or are not fully vaccinated.

Yes, my apologies. I meant that to date, the kids have received all of their recommended vaccinations on time. He is now objecting/refusing to allow the COVID vax, and will not provide reasons why. He and I both got our covid vaccinations as soon as we could, and I had an appointment scheduled for the kids for last week. When I alerted him on our parenting platform, he alerted me of his refusal. Now that is is part of our record (he is court ordered to use civil communicator), I am afraid to go get it "anyway".

Oh! Glad you clarified - just file a motion with the court saying he's on drugs or whatever, and not in a mental state to be making medical decisions about minor children at this time and would the court sign off on your wanting to get them the Covid vaccine? And also include in that filing that you want sole medical custody until he has had three consecutive months of clean drug tests. Ask your lawyer to file it on an emergency basis so your kids can get vax'd sooner rather than later.

That sounds good. If OP can prove he's on drugs.

You gotta be smoking SOMETHING to go along in life letting your kids get all their vaccines and then come to a screechilg halt on this one. Chicken pox doesn't kill you. Covid can.

Chicken pox can, in fact, be deadly.

My friend was in a similar situation and took his daughter anyway and they agreed not to tell the mom about it. I would do this if you can trust your kids to be quiet. If not, this is worth calling your lawyer about. You have half of the decision-making power here too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You take them today to get them vaccinated, as you should have done MONTHS ago. End of story. No way he's taking you to court for that, and if he did, he'd get laughed out and that would cost him.

Why do you think that the court would laugh about me consenting to a medical procedure that my ex has stated he will not approve of, knowing we legally have joint medical decision making?

Because he's putting their health in danger. I would get them the vaccine. If you guys are too chicken, then just don't tell him, since he never wants to vaccinate them. Your teens are old enough to understand their father is crazy and keep that secret, I hope. My kids have a crazy father and they know what not to say.

Look, I'm crying over this whole thing and feeling utterly frustrated and powerless, but if it makes you feel better to call me names, have at it. The beauty of having been in an abusive marriage is that I have experienced much worse.

What if he was off doing the same? What if I took them then he "relents" and takes them? What if he still intends to go on the international travel that he has planned with the kids in October, and relents in September, do I confess then that I already did it? I'm trying to both respect my kids health, and to stay out of court as my ex has proven he will liberally use the courts to "punish" me.