Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a straight woman who is not particularly into girl stuff, I’ve always appreciate butch lesbians for being at the forefront of challenging what it means to be a woman. I’m also sad to see many of them transitioning to men. And, yes, I know it’s not about me and my desire to have other people challenge gender norms for me. Sigh. But I do appreciate that we are moving to a world where everyone can be who they want to be.

NP. Are they, though?
I’m an older soft-butch lesbian and I am really skeptical that the desire to transition is truly borne out of “just being myself.”
All this transitioning seems very binary-reinforcing and serves “blending in” much more than being accepted in society as a butch lesbian.
And I also wonder what the long term is like for butch lesbians who transition. Are straight women really interested?
As a gay women, I do not find myself attracted to trans men who have medically transitioned. I can’t imagine my straight girl friends being very interested either.
OP I hope this fad ends soon. There’s going to be a backlash. I really hope that butch lesbians will reclaim space for themselves.
Also, where are you? Maybe get out into some different circles. I don’t think this is happening equally everywhere.

You would be surprised. I know two adult cis women in relationships with trans men. Both of the men are attractive and good partners. There are also several trans male actors who are very easy on the eyes like the firefighter on 9-1-1 Lone Star.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you’re doing your sexuality and gender identity “right,” and they’re doing it “wrong?”

OK.

You do get that that is just as insulting as anyone who would say to you that YOU are doing your sexuality “wrong” by being a lesbian, and your gender identity “wrong” by not presenting as entirely feminine, right? Right?

You do get that, yes?

You need to take some time to reflect, talk to a therapist, and do some real soul-searching on how damaging your view is of these women and men who are living THEIR lives authentically to THEMSELVES.

Wow, way to misread the OP and put a lot of words in her mouth. She didn't say anything like this, and she is very honest that this is about her own fears around finding a partner. She isn't anti-trans and isn't saying anyone is doing it wrong. There is nothing damaging about her views and she isn't imposing anything on anyone.

Oh, cute, you tried it!

Direct quote from OP:
“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a man.”

How about me saying this to OP, who is a lesbian, would this be OK, to say about lesbians?

“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a woman.”

It's her opinion, and she's talking about specific people. That's how she experiences their transition. That's different then saying she doesn't think anyone should transition or that it's bad to do so.

DP. Having opinions about individual's transition isn't better than having opinions about transitions generally. It's gross. You don't "experience" another person's transition in that way. My husband of fifteen years started transitioning a couple years ago, so I know the journey but this isn't a healthy or appropriate way to approach it. Combined with the generic (and false) anti-trans talking point about "caricatures" and OP's post reads very anti-trans.

So you're not a lesbian, and by default your experience is going to be different from OP's. OP is entitled to her own thoughts and feelings about her exes who have transitioned.

"You're entitled to your opinion" is the lowest common denominator argument. It says you have no interest in defending your opinion just in saying it without challenge. She's entitled to her feelings, and I'm entitled to think they're garbage, that's my "thoughts and feelings" based on someone who has been there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a straight woman who is not particularly into girl stuff, I’ve always appreciate butch lesbians for being at the forefront of challenging what it means to be a woman. I’m also sad to see many of them transitioning to men. And, yes, I know it’s not about me and my desire to have other people challenge gender norms for me. Sigh. But I do appreciate that we are moving to a world where everyone can be who they want to be.

NP. Are they, though?
I’m an older soft-butch lesbian and I am really skeptical that the desire to transition is truly borne out of “just being myself.”
All this transitioning seems very binary-reinforcing and serves “blending in” much more than being accepted in society as a butch lesbian.
And I also wonder what the long term is like for butch lesbians who transition. Are straight women really interested?
As a gay women, I do not find myself attracted to trans men who have medically transitioned. I can’t imagine my straight girl friends being very interested either.
OP I hope this fad ends soon. There’s going to be a backlash. I really hope that butch lesbians will reclaim space for themselves.
Also, where are you? Maybe get out into some different circles. I don’t think this is happening equally everywhere.

this, it's the one issue that is never discussed with respect to trans acceptance

It’s discussed. Just not where you are listening.

https://freedomforallamericans.org/austin-first-transgender-police-officer-shares-wifes-support-invaluable/

https://time.com/4259940/transgender-family/

Not all trans men partner with straight women:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/to-some-this-queer-couple-looks-straight-for-him-thats-okay-but-for-her-it-feels-like-a-lie/2019/08/22/098b83f2-c43b-11e9-b5e4-54aa56d5b7ce_story.html

And lesbians who prefer partners without penises get labeled terfs

Nope, takes more than that to be a TERF. If you’ve been called a TERF is has nothing to do with what goes in your vajayjay and everything to do with what comes out of your mouth to hurt people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you’re doing your sexuality and gender identity “right,” and they’re doing it “wrong?”

OK.

You do get that that is just as insulting as anyone who would say to you that YOU are doing your sexuality “wrong” by being a lesbian, and your gender identity “wrong” by not presenting as entirely feminine, right? Right?

You do get that, yes?

You need to take some time to reflect, talk to a therapist, and do some real soul-searching on how damaging your view is of these women and men who are living THEIR lives authentically to THEMSELVES.

Wow, way to misread the OP and put a lot of words in her mouth. She didn't say anything like this, and she is very honest that this is about her own fears around finding a partner. She isn't anti-trans and isn't saying anyone is doing it wrong. There is nothing damaging about her views and she isn't imposing anything on anyone.

Oh, cute, you tried it!

Direct quote from OP:
“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a man.”

How about me saying this to OP, who is a lesbian, would this be OK, to say about lesbians?

“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a woman.”

It's her opinion, and she's talking about specific people. That's how she experiences their transition. That's different then saying she doesn't think anyone should transition or that it's bad to do so.

DP. Having opinions about individual's transition isn't better than having opinions about transitions generally. It's gross. You don't "experience" another person's transition in that way. My husband of fifteen years started transitioning a couple years ago, so I know the journey but this isn't a healthy or appropriate way to approach it. Combined with the generic (and false) anti-trans talking point about "caricatures" and OP's post reads very anti-trans.

So you're not a lesbian, and by default your experience is going to be different from OP's. OP is entitled to her own thoughts and feelings about her exes who have transitioned.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a straight woman who is not particularly into girl stuff, I’ve always appreciate butch lesbians for being at the forefront of challenging what it means to be a woman. I’m also sad to see many of them transitioning to men. And, yes, I know it’s not about me and my desire to have other people challenge gender norms for me. Sigh. But I do appreciate that we are moving to a world where everyone can be who they want to be.

NP. Are they, though?
I’m an older soft-butch lesbian and I am really skeptical that the desire to transition is truly borne out of “just being myself.”
All this transitioning seems very binary-reinforcing and serves “blending in” much more than being accepted in society as a butch lesbian.
And I also wonder what the long term is like for butch lesbians who transition. Are straight women really interested?
As a gay women, I do not find myself attracted to trans men who have medically transitioned. I can’t imagine my straight girl friends being very interested either.
OP I hope this fad ends soon. There’s going to be a backlash. I really hope that butch lesbians will reclaim space for themselves.
Also, where are you? Maybe get out into some different circles. I don’t think this is happening equally everywhere.

this, it's the one issue that is never discussed with respect to trans acceptance

It’s discussed. Just not where you are listening.

https://freedomforallamericans.org/austin-first-transgender-police-officer-shares-wifes-support-invaluable/

https://time.com/4259940/transgender-family/

Not all trans men partner with straight women:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/to-some-this-queer-couple-looks-straight-for-him-thats-okay-but-for-her-it-feels-like-a-lie/2019/08/22/098b83f2-c43b-11e9-b5e4-54aa56d5b7ce_story.html

And lesbians who prefer partners without penises get labeled terfs

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a straight woman who is not particularly into girl stuff, I’ve always appreciate butch lesbians for being at the forefront of challenging what it means to be a woman. I’m also sad to see many of them transitioning to men. And, yes, I know it’s not about me and my desire to have other people challenge gender norms for me. Sigh. But I do appreciate that we are moving to a world where everyone can be who they want to be.

NP. Are they, though?
I’m an older soft-butch lesbian and I am really skeptical that the desire to transition is truly borne out of “just being myself.”
All this transitioning seems very binary-reinforcing and serves “blending in” much more than being accepted in society as a butch lesbian.
And I also wonder what the long term is like for butch lesbians who transition. Are straight women really interested?
As a gay women, I do not find myself attracted to trans men who have medically transitioned. I can’t imagine my straight girl friends being very interested either.
OP I hope this fad ends soon. There’s going to be a backlash. I really hope that butch lesbians will reclaim space for themselves.
Also, where are you? Maybe get out into some different circles. I don’t think this is happening equally everywhere.

this, it's the one issue that is never discussed with respect to trans acceptance

It’s discussed. Just not where you are listening.

https://freedomforallamericans.org/austin-first-transgender-police-officer-shares-wifes-support-invaluable/

https://time.com/4259940/transgender-family/

Not all trans men partner with straight women:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/to-some-this-queer-couple-looks-straight-for-him-thats-okay-but-for-her-it-feels-like-a-lie/2019/08/22/098b83f2-c43b-11e9-b5e4-54aa56d5b7ce_story.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you’re doing your sexuality and gender identity “right,” and they’re doing it “wrong?”

OK.

You do get that that is just as insulting as anyone who would say to you that YOU are doing your sexuality “wrong” by being a lesbian, and your gender identity “wrong” by not presenting as entirely feminine, right? Right?

You do get that, yes?

You need to take some time to reflect, talk to a therapist, and do some real soul-searching on how damaging your view is of these women and men who are living THEIR lives authentically to THEMSELVES.

Wow, way to misread the OP and put a lot of words in her mouth. She didn't say anything like this, and she is very honest that this is about her own fears around finding a partner. She isn't anti-trans and isn't saying anyone is doing it wrong. There is nothing damaging about her views and she isn't imposing anything on anyone.

Oh, cute, you tried it!

Direct quote from OP:
“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a man.”

How about me saying this to OP, who is a lesbian, would this be OK, to say about lesbians?

“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a woman.”

It's her opinion, and she's talking about specific people. That's how she experiences their transition. That's different then saying she doesn't think anyone should transition or that it's bad to do so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you’re doing your sexuality and gender identity “right,” and they’re doing it “wrong?”

OK.

You do get that that is just as insulting as anyone who would say to you that YOU are doing your sexuality “wrong” by being a lesbian, and your gender identity “wrong” by not presenting as entirely feminine, right? Right?

You do get that, yes?

You need to take some time to reflect, talk to a therapist, and do some real soul-searching on how damaging your view is of these women and men who are living THEIR lives authentically to THEMSELVES.

Wow, way to misread the OP and put a lot of words in her mouth. She didn't say anything like this, and she is very honest that this is about her own fears around finding a partner. She isn't anti-trans and isn't saying anyone is doing it wrong. There is nothing damaging about her views and she isn't imposing anything on anyone.

Oh, cute, you tried it!

Direct quote from OP:
“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a man.”

How about me saying this to OP, who is a lesbian, would this be OK, to say about lesbians?

“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a woman.”

It's her opinion, and she's talking about specific people. That's how she experiences their transition. That's different then saying she doesn't think anyone should transition or that it's bad to do so.

DP. Having opinions about individual's transition isn't better than having opinions about transitions generally. It's gross. You don't "experience" another person's transition in that way. My husband of fifteen years started transitioning a couple years ago, so I know the journey but this isn't a healthy or appropriate way to approach it. Combined with the generic (and false) anti-trans talking point about "caricatures" and OP's post reads very anti-trans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you’re doing your sexuality and gender identity “right,” and they’re doing it “wrong?”

OK.

You do get that that is just as insulting as anyone who would say to you that YOU are doing your sexuality “wrong” by being a lesbian, and your gender identity “wrong” by not presenting as entirely feminine, right? Right?

You do get that, yes?

You need to take some time to reflect, talk to a therapist, and do some real soul-searching on how damaging your view is of these women and men who are living THEIR lives authentically to THEMSELVES.

Wow, way to misread the OP and put a lot of words in her mouth. She didn't say anything like this, and she is very honest that this is about her own fears around finding a partner. She isn't anti-trans and isn't saying anyone is doing it wrong. There is nothing damaging about her views and she isn't imposing anything on anyone.

Oh, cute, you tried it!

Direct quote from OP:
“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a man.”

How about me saying this to OP, who is a lesbian, would this be OK, to say about lesbians?

“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a woman.”

It's her opinion, and she's talking about specific people. That's how she experiences their transition. That's different then saying she doesn't think anyone should transition or that it's bad to do so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you’re doing your sexuality and gender identity “right,” and they’re doing it “wrong?”

OK.

You do get that that is just as insulting as anyone who would say to you that YOU are doing your sexuality “wrong” by being a lesbian, and your gender identity “wrong” by not presenting as entirely feminine, right? Right?

You do get that, yes?

You need to take some time to reflect, talk to a therapist, and do some real soul-searching on how damaging your view is of these women and men who are living THEIR lives authentically to THEMSELVES.

Wow, way to misread the OP and put a lot of words in her mouth. She didn't say anything like this, and she is very honest that this is about her own fears around finding a partner. She isn't anti-trans and isn't saying anyone is doing it wrong. There is nothing damaging about her views and she isn't imposing anything on anyone.

Oh, cute, you tried it!

Direct quote from OP:
“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a man.”

How about me saying this to OP, who is a lesbian, would this be OK, to say about lesbians?

“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a woman.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you’re doing your sexuality and gender identity “right,” and they’re doing it “wrong?”

OK.

You do get that that is just as insulting as anyone who would say to you that YOU are doing your sexuality “wrong” by being a lesbian, and your gender identity “wrong” by not presenting as entirely feminine, right? Right?

You do get that, yes?

You need to take some time to reflect, talk to a therapist, and do some real soul-searching on how damaging your view is of these women and men who are living THEIR lives authentically to THEMSELVES.

Wow, way to misread the OP and put a lot of words in her mouth. She didn't say anything like this, and she is very honest that this is about her own fears around finding a partner. She isn't anti-trans and isn't saying anyone is doing it wrong. There is nothing damaging about her views and she isn't imposing anything on anyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you’re doing your sexuality and gender identity “right,” and they’re doing it “wrong?”

OK.

You do get that that is just as insulting as anyone who would say to you that YOU are doing your sexuality “wrong” by being a lesbian, and your gender identity “wrong” by not presenting as entirely feminine, right? Right?

You do get that, yes?

You need to take some time to reflect, talk to a therapist, and do some real soul-searching on how damaging your view is of these women and men who are living THEIR lives authentically to THEMSELVES.

Wow, way to misread the OP and put a lot of words in her mouth. She didn't say anything like this, and she is very honest that this is about her own fears around finding a partner. She isn't anti-trans and isn't saying anyone is doing it wrong. There is nothing damaging about her views and she isn't imposing anything on anyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a straight woman who is not particularly into girl stuff, I’ve always appreciate butch lesbians for being at the forefront of challenging what it means to be a woman. I’m also sad to see many of them transitioning to men. And, yes, I know it’s not about me and my desire to have other people challenge gender norms for me. Sigh. But I do appreciate that we are moving to a world where everyone can be who they want to be.

NP. Are they, though?
I’m an older soft-butch lesbian and I am really skeptical that the desire to transition is truly borne out of “just being myself.”
All this transitioning seems very binary-reinforcing and serves “blending in” much more than being accepted in society as a butch lesbian.
And I also wonder what the long term is like for butch lesbians who transition. Are straight women really interested?
As a gay women, I do not find myself attracted to trans men who have medically transitioned. I can’t imagine my straight girl friends being very interested either.
OP I hope this fad ends soon. There’s going to be a backlash. I really hope that butch lesbians will reclaim space for themselves.
Also, where are you? Maybe get out into some different circles. I don’t think this is happening equally everywhere.

this, it's the one issue that is never discussed with respect to trans acceptance

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you’re doing your sexuality and gender identity “right,” and they’re doing it “wrong?”

OK.

You do get that that is just as insulting as anyone who would say to you that YOU are doing your sexuality “wrong” by being a lesbian, and your gender identity “wrong” by not presenting as entirely feminine, right? Right?

You do get that, yes?

You need to take some time to reflect, talk to a therapist, and do some real soul-searching on how damaging your view is of these women and men who are living THEIR lives authentically to THEMSELVES.