Anonymous wrote:Everyone here is so narrow minded and petty. It’s really unbelievable. It’s as if all anyone thinks life is about is amassing millions so you can live comfortably comfortably when you’re old and broken.

I care so much more deeply about who someone is as a person, and how they approach life, that I think this question is just fundamentally stupid.

Sure, I probably wouldn’t want to be with someone making 20 K, but I still think this is just a really stupid question.

Having actually faced this question, I don't think it is a stupid question. Some people, sure, they live up to the limit of their income, so any reduction means a change in lifestyle, and they might value the lifestyle more than the happiness of their spouse. Others just expect their spouse to make as much money as possible (whether or not they work themselves). But a spouse changing their income affects the whole family, and we aren't all millionaires. If your income drops enough, it can affect your ability to do things like supporting your children (childcare, health insurance and health care, food, clothing, etc.), saving for college, saving for retirement, being able to do certain things that you enjoy or care about, etc. One reason that my spouse and I choose to live way beneath our means is because it creates this cushion, where if someone loses their job or needs to downshift, it's not an immediate crisis.

I don't like how you would compare jobs.

Instead, compare first the hours. Are you talking 75 hours a week vs 40? 60 vs 40? 50 vs 40?

Second, can he even perform the higher earning job well? Or is he burned out at this point, such that staying, he would get canned eventually. You pose this like an option to have high earning job indefinitely - but is it really for long?

Finally the salary issue. He has to take whatever he can get for the work he is able to perform well. Whatever the free market will pay.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I honestly meant for this to be an abstract question for discussion purposes, and not a dissection of my family’s situation, which is complicated and something I don’t feel like getting into.

I’ll share that I am the DH, and left biglaw litigation after only a few years for a GS-14/15 gig. I make a little less than 165k now (less when I transitioned). It wasn’t just the hours and mental exhaustion; it was feeling like a fish out of water, hating litigation and the acrimony, not aspiring to be a partner at all. Missed my wife and friends dearly when I was chained to desk or travel. Only times I felt happy was when work was light enough to be manageable, but not so light that I worried about hours.

But that transition has caused friction within my marriage, in some aspects justifiably so. It’s hard sometimes to balance your responsibilities to provide and be a good spouse with not feeling dead inside, and that’s something I struggle with a lot.

OP, I will tell you that my spouse made this move at a time when we were a single-income family (I was home with small children for a few years) and I ABSOLUTELY supported it because it made him so much happier and because he had a lot more control of his schedule and was doing work that he found meaningful. We are now quite a few years down the road of the "non-biglaw litigation" path and I have not second guessed it for a second. I'd really question your spouse's premise that you have an obligation to stay in a job that makes you miserable when the alternative is earning a fine salary. (Yes, $165k is a fine, arguably way more than fine, salary.)

This would of course depend on the many conversations I had with my spouse prior to this point about the lifestyle we want, home we want, family time we want, retirement we want BEFORE we got married...

So, the minimum= whatever equals that predetermined lifestyle — my contributions to said lifestyle. Math!

I feel like the big thing missing here is the history. Is this spouse right out of graduate school or something, and picking a career track fresh? Or have they been on "easy street" since you met, but you just know they could be doing more if they wanted? Or have they been making bank, and now want to take a big pay cut? It matters a lot.

If they've been on easy street since you met, then what they make is what they make, it's not going to change, even if it's $30k, and you need to back off and stop trying to change your spouse.

If they've been making bank, it's going to depend a LOT on your household financial priorities. People who are used to making $400k or or something all of a sudden dropping to even $300k may mean some tough decisions. Can you still afford your mortgage, childcare, cars, day to day life? Where is that cut going to come from the budget? Maybe it makes sense to slowly start cutting spending and saving more with a goal of getting expenses down so your spouse can change careers in a few years? Or maybe moving makes sense? This is much more complex, but I could objecting to a big cut in this situation, even if they're total income was still super high.

If you're picking a career track fresh... it depends how much I make, how much spouse's flexibility will help the family (will he/she be able to do all the drop offs/pick ups/sick days coverage while I focus on my career? Maybe that might be worth it) and what your goals are. I think I would struggle here with less than $50-$75k, that's where you really need to have a discussion on how you're going to live on that, especially with kids. Maybe working together on a couple sample budgets, figuring out what your live will look like at different salaries would help.

Everyone here is so narrow minded and petty. It’s really unbelievable. It’s as if all anyone thinks life is about is amassing millions so you can live comfortably comfortably when you’re old and broken.

I care so much more deeply about who someone is as a person, and how they approach life, that I think this question is just fundamentally stupid.

Sure, I probably wouldn’t want to be with someone making 20 K, but I still think this is just a really stupid question.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I honestly meant for this to be an abstract question for discussion purposes, and not a dissection of my family’s situation, which is complicated and something I don’t feel like getting into.

I’ll share that I am the DH, and left biglaw litigation after only a few years for a GS-14/15 gig. I make a little less than 165k now (less when I transitioned). It wasn’t just the hours and mental exhaustion; it was feeling like a fish out of water, hating litigation and the acrimony, not aspiring to be a partner at all. Missed my wife and friends dearly when I was chained to desk or travel. Only times I felt happy was when work was light enough to be manageable, but not so light that I worried about hours.

But that transition has caused friction within my marriage, in some aspects justifiably so. It’s hard sometimes to balance your responsibilities to provide and be a good spouse with not feeling dead inside, and that’s something I struggle with a lot.

I wish my husband was more like you. He kept the prestigious job the with crazy hours and mental exhaustion. I often feel very lonely and unwanted.

OP here. I honestly meant for this to be an abstract question for discussion purposes, and not a dissection of my family’s situation, which is complicated and something I don’t feel like getting into.

I’ll share that I am the DH, and left biglaw litigation after only a few years for a GS-14/15 gig. I make a little less than 165k now (less when I transitioned). It wasn’t just the hours and mental exhaustion; it was feeling like a fish out of water, hating litigation and the acrimony, not aspiring to be a partner at all. Missed my wife and friends dearly when I was chained to desk or travel. Only times I felt happy was when work was light enough to be manageable, but not so light that I worried about hours.

But that transition has caused friction within my marriage, in some aspects justifiably so. It’s hard sometimes to balance your responsibilities to provide and be a good spouse with not feeling dead inside, and that’s something I struggle with a lot.

I don’t know. Do you have some way of controlling what kind of job your spouse takes? If so, can you please share?
We moved here “temporarily” for my spouse’s job. It’s been six years now.

$497,452.69 - wages
$187,931.06 - dividend payments
$78,644.59 - rental income
$93,608.23 - royalties

$30k? But we have plenty of money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$75k, assuming I also make $75k. I'd never expect a spouse to make more than me.

+1. $75K is the minimum number for me at this point (we are both 40). I think it would be about $50K if I was in my 20s.

Also in my 40s, agree with $75k for a full-time job but I would also have the expectation that this job has substantial flexibility and that the spouse who's "leaned out" is doing more of the heavy lifting in terms of kid sick days, pickups, other family stuff, etc. Not all of it, of course, but more than half.

Well, unless the other spouse also makes 75k. In that case you are both "leaning out". I agree that if someone has been doing less than half of all that stuff in part because they had the higher-paying, but presumably more demanding, job, then moving into a lower paying job absolutely means it's time to pick up other slack. But I wouldn't expect someone who left a 200k/yr job for a 75k/yr job to do more than half of the childcare/homemaking stuff if I was also making 75k. I'd view it as an opportunity to divide things up as equitably as possible and maybe for us both to reclaim some free time that we'd previously given up for the sake of their job.

We have actually been in this situation. A central factor is both the salary and job stability of the spouse who is happy in their career, because that dictates what's possible for the other who wants a change. In our case, the happy-in-work spouse made @100k (it increased over time) and was/is in an extremely secure job where layoff is basically not a possibility.

Without kids, or with older kids, the number is 65-70k in the DC market (for us, obviously YMMV). Making less than 65k, you'd either need to be working less than FT (thus reaping the benefits of having more free time, improved mental health, plus being able to do more for the collective family unit (taking care of the house, dealing with older-kid issues like extracurriculars, doctors appointments, etc.).

Also, this might sound weird, but the floor is higher if the family involves young kids. And that's just because of the cost of childcare. We found that the second income of 70k for a parent who enjoyed being home with little kids was not worth it, when you factor in childcare costs plus the many benefits of having a SAHP when kids are little. 70k wouldn't pay for a nanny plus professional housecleaning plus meal plans or extra takeout. So you're going to be doing the dual-FT drop off/pick up/clean house/making dinner shuffle, which SUCKS. Sorry, but it does. You can make it easier with shorter commutes, maybe some help from family if it's available. But that period of your lives is just going to be stressful. So if one spouse is unhappy in their job and willing to be a SAHP, I feel like that spouse would need to be making 100k+ (maybe add 20k for each additional child) in order to say no, the longterm benefits of you staying in this job you hate outweigh the short-term benefits of you leaving that job.

The key here is that the person really loathes their job, is stuck in a dead-end career, or is in an industry that is abusive or has a workaholic culture. Sadly, this happens more often than anyone wants in DC. I can say from experience that if you have a partner in this position, it is absolutely worth the family sacrifice to get them into a better situation. We don't miss the extra income at all because we have a happy, peaceful family where people are free in the evening and on the weekends, and the toxicity of one partner's horrible work situation doesn't invade our lives. Living on 150k is really not hard, compared to living with someone who is depressed, anxious, and never available to spend time with the family.

What do you mean by “lack of work ethic?” Is this person lazy, or just values family time over a huge paycheck? I think that will matter more than a salary number

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$75k, assuming I also make $75k. I'd never expect a spouse to make more than me.

+1. $75K is the minimum number for me at this point (we are both 40). I think it would be about $50K if I was in my 20s.

Also in my 40s, agree with $75k for a full-time job but I would also have the expectation that this job has substantial flexibility and that the spouse who's "leaned out" is doing more of the heavy lifting in terms of kid sick days, pickups, other family stuff, etc. Not all of it, of course, but more than half.