Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to pay teachers well and give them respect as professionals. We need to improve our education schools and make them more competitive and attractive to top performing high school students. (Which will be easier if the pay/respect is good when they graduate.)

Watch the video posted above. Finland has the best teachers in the world. And even they can’t control inner city kids. The problem is the kids. Or rather, their parents.

Denying that means nothing will ever improve.

I taught at some difficult high schools early in my career. I was really good at classroom management and feel like my state test scores showed that my students were learning. There were some other young teachers at my school having similar success. The problem is it is exhausting to teach at schools with such behavioral and home issues. We all burned out after 5 years or so because it was just so time consuming and emotional difficult. I was working 60 hours a week for very little money.

Yes! I was surprised at how many strangers simply didn’t believe that I worked that many hours. To this day, it’s my biggest pet peeve.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elementary education in US is fine. It's the middle and high school education that cannot compete with many other countries.
School does start a little too early here, but it's because the US doesn't have free daycare for all. This early learning cuts into play time, which is learning for young children.
Middle and high school classes are taught by chemists, historians and linguists in the old country. It makes a big difference.

Actually the problems in elementary education bleed into middle and high school education. Kids aren't taught to read properly. They don't have good background knowledge for science and social studies. Elementary math teachers (in general) are not good mathematicians. One thing the video doesn't say is that Finish teachers are generally top of their class in college. US teachers are generally not. Highly educated college students go into teaching in Finland. Highly educated college students in the US go into tech or finance.

As a former teacher from a high achieving background, I want to thank you for qualifying this statement. It was so demoralizing to hear broad generalizations over the years.

Having taught young children from a variety of backgrounds to read, it’s a night and day difference between high-income and low-income families. Kids whose families read to them at home before age five have a huge head start. Kids whose families tutor them are at an advantage that I can’t overcome. Being a native English speaker is a huge advantage. I had ESOL students who got ten reading groups a week ( between me and the ESOL teacher) who didn’t make as much progress as average students who saw me twice a week. Yes, some ESOL kids totally caught up, but others stagnated.

And since this forum is anonymous, kids who had me after my third year of teaching had a huge advantage. Kids who had me after my sixth year of teaching were even luckier. When many teachers leave by their fifth year in the profession, students are missing out on having an experienced educator. When I left, my reading teacher videoed me teaching to share with new teachers. I have no idea if she used the footage, or if it helped anyone. We need to make teaching attractive enough to make teachers want to stay. I had no qualms about leaving because of the toll the job was taking on my marriage. DH never wants me to go back, and while that’s great for my kids, that’s a loss to the community.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to pay teachers well and give them respect as professionals. We need to improve our education schools and make them more competitive and attractive to top performing high school students. (Which will be easier if the pay/respect is good when they graduate.)

Watch the video posted above. Finland has the best teachers in the world. And even they can’t control inner city kids. The problem is the kids. Or rather, their parents.

Denying that means nothing will ever improve.

I taught at some difficult high schools early in my career. I was really good at classroom management and feel like my state test scores showed that my students were learning. There were some other young teachers at my school having similar success. The problem is it is exhausting to teach at schools with such behavioral and home issues. We all burned out after 5 years or so because it was just so time consuming and emotional difficult. I was working 60 hours a week for very little money.

Anonymous wrote:We need to pay teachers well and give them respect as professionals. We need to improve our education schools and make them more competitive and attractive to top performing high school students. (Which will be easier if the pay/respect is good when they graduate.)

Watch the video posted above. Finland has the best teachers in the world. And even they can’t control inner city kids. The problem is the kids. Or rather, their parents.

Denying that means nothing will ever improve.

We need to pay teachers well and give them respect as professionals. We need to improve our education schools and make them more competitive and attractive to top performing high school students. (Which will be easier if the pay/respect is good when they graduate.)

PP but let me add that some of the absolute worst classrooms are the ones where the teacher acts like kids are ‘equals’ and ‘friends’. It is a free for all and becomes untenable or no one learns. This goes for UMC, low income, etc. it’s pretty universal in my 20 years of experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in three countries (Japan, USA, and Cameroon, Africa in the Peace Corps). We have “low power distance” culture in the U.S. children are taught that they should have the same rights as adults. Look at movies here. Parents and teachers are usually treated as bumbling idiots while the kids are in charge. Students are taught to disrespect authority and education in general. Our social structure has also destroyed upward mobility for most kids, so it is hard to argue that education guarantees success in life unless you have the means to pay for college.

This is the kind of thing that really ignorant teachers say sometimes to explain why the kids hate them. Some imaginary loss of respect that once existed, but actually it's more likely the person in question isn't respected because they don't respect the students.

NP who is a teacher who in general is respected by students and has good classroom management. That being said it is not innate that adults or teachers get respect from students in the US. Teachers have to work hard to earn it and there are parents who think kids should have the same rights as adults. This might sound all well and good until you see that put into practice- kids going to the bathroom whenever they want, wandering the halls, on their phones, etc. There needs to be a level of respect in a school for adults if things are to be successful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in three countries (Japan, USA, and Cameroon, Africa in the Peace Corps). We have “low power distance” culture in the U.S. children are taught that they should have the same rights as adults. Look at movies here. Parents and teachers are usually treated as bumbling idiots while the kids are in charge. Students are taught to disrespect authority and education in general. Our social structure has also destroyed upward mobility for most kids, so it is hard to argue that education guarantees success in life unless you have the means to pay for college.

This is the kind of thing that really ignorant teachers say sometimes to explain why the kids hate them. Some imaginary loss of respect that once existed, but actually it's more likely the person in question isn't respected because they don't respect the students.

It's true though. Kids, and more importantly parents, in most other countries have much more respect for teachers. That makes it easier for teachers to control a classroom and teach their students.

That doesn't excuse US teachers from doing a bad job, but it's not something that's "imaginary." US teachers have to earn it.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's the pay. I think it's that teachers have no autonomy, have to teach to the test and can't kick disruptive students out of their classrooms.

Are you a teacher? Because you nailed it.

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in three countries (Japan, USA, and Cameroon, Africa in the Peace Corps). We have “low power distance” culture in the U.S. children are taught that they should have the same rights as adults. Look at movies here. Parents and teachers are usually treated as bumbling idiots while the kids are in charge. Students are taught to disrespect authority and education in general. Our social structure has also destroyed upward mobility for most kids, so it is hard to argue that education guarantees success in life unless you have the means to pay for college.

This is the kind of thing that really ignorant teachers say sometimes to explain why the kids hate them. Some imaginary loss of respect that once existed, but actually it's more likely the person in question isn't respected because they don't respect the students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elementary education in US is fine. It's the middle and high school education that cannot compete with many other countries.
School does start a little too early here, but it's because the US doesn't have free daycare for all. This early learning cuts into play time, which is learning for young children.
Middle and high school classes are taught by chemists, historians and linguists in the old country. It makes a big difference.

Actually the problems in elementary education bleed into middle and high school education. Kids aren't taught to read properly. They don't have good background knowledge for science and social studies. Elementary math teachers (in general) are not good mathematicians. One thing the video doesn't say is that Finish teachers are generally top of their class in college. US teachers are generally not. Highly educated college students go into teaching in Finland. Highly educated college students in the US go into tech or finance.

I agree, and I was a teacher. A lot of teachers are just plain ignorant. A LOT. Education classes are a joke. And if a teacher is intelligent and well-educated, she will probably not last long in the public school system, being treated like a child by administrators and told exactly what to say and do every second of every day, never allowed to actually use any of that education or intelligence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in three countries (Japan, USA, and Cameroon, Africa in the Peace Corps). We have “low power distance” culture in the U.S. children are taught that they should have the same rights as adults. Look at movies here. Parents and teachers are usually treated as bumbling idiots while the kids are in charge. Students are taught to disrespect authority and education in general. Our social structure has also destroyed upward mobility for most kids, so it is hard to argue that education guarantees success in life unless you have the means to pay for college.

You don’t think children should have the same rights as an adult? WTF?! Children are just as human as adults and deserve the same rights and respect. I really hope you no longer work in education.

Kids don't have the right to vote, and that's o.k. We can haggle over what rights kids should and shouldn't have, but PP's "WTF" in response to the idea that kids should have fewer rights than adults was unwarranted.

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in three countries (Japan, USA, and Cameroon, Africa in the Peace Corps). We have “low power distance” culture in the U.S. children are taught that they should have the same rights as adults. Look at movies here. Parents and teachers are usually treated as bumbling idiots while the kids are in charge. Students are taught to disrespect authority and education in general. Our social structure has also destroyed upward mobility for most kids, so it is hard to argue that education guarantees success in life unless you have the means to pay for college.

You don’t think children should have the same rights as an adult? WTF?! Children are just as human as adults and deserve the same rights and respect. I really hope you no longer work in education.

I have taught in three countries (Japan, USA, and Cameroon, Africa in the Peace Corps). We have “low power distance” culture in the U.S. children are taught that they should have the same rights as adults. Look at movies here. Parents and teachers are usually treated as bumbling idiots while the kids are in charge. Students are taught to disrespect authority and education in general. Our social structure has also destroyed upward mobility for most kids, so it is hard to argue that education guarantees success in life unless you have the means to pay for college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elementary education in US is fine. It's the middle and high school education that cannot compete with many other countries.
School does start a little too early here, but it's because the US doesn't have free daycare for all. This early learning cuts into play time, which is learning for young children.
Middle and high school classes are taught by chemists, historians and linguists in the old country. It makes a big difference.

Actually the problems in elementary education bleed into middle and high school education. Kids aren't taught to read properly. They don't have good background knowledge for science and social studies. Elementary math teachers (in general) are not good mathematicians. One thing the video doesn't say is that Finish teachers are generally top of their class in college. US teachers are generally not. Highly educated college students go into teaching in Finland. Highly educated college students in the US go into tech or finance.

Even those really great Finnish teachers have trouble teaching when the kids aren't good.

I've seen other videos of this teacher teaching in Finland and she's great. But she couldn't control this "multicultural" classroom where the standards and expectations for behavior and academics were obviously way lower at the same age. (Or even comparing to a lower age in Finland, which she hinted at a couple of times.)

Teacher quality is only part of the issue.

There is another show on YouTube where British and South Korean teachers switch for a week or two. The South Korean teachers struggled to keep the kids in line and engaged. The standards for behavior are different. Most of my friends teach in wealthy suburbs. They would never survive at my school in the city and they've admitted that. I've taught in city schools with a large majority of FARMS students, wealthy suburb schools and at international schools. The main noticeable difference is the parents. I teach students in multiple grade levels so I often have the same students for years. Many of them have non-existent parents. Sometimes I wonder if they have parents. They are completely MIA. We couldn't contact them even if it was an emergency. Many don't want to hear from the school. Sometimes they will tell us "Don't call me! He's your problem while he's there." It's very sad.