Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its really important to also consider human history as a way to ask "does this theory make sense?"

Humans have consumed meat for millennia, as well as grains, vegetables and fruit. I don't believe that eating meat can possibly have such a negative impact on overall human health, given this.

But you know what has not been consumed for millennia? Processed food and the high high quantity of sugar we now eat. These things have massively knocked our systems for a loop.

I agree to an extent. Humans have eaten meat for millennia but not in the quantities we do now. Lots of things have changed, fruit has been bred to be sweeter, thus more sugar. IMHO, fruit is much better than candy and ice cream, but that doesn't mean you can eat as much as you want. I also think that juice is as bad as soda.

My husband developed late adult onset type 1 diabetes in his late 40s, he's now 60. He manages it very well and uses an insulin pump. It's very interesting what makes his sugar levels spike and how long the spike sustains. Cornstarch is the worst followed by pasta and bread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well for diabetes, it’s sugar, no question. For cancer - probably many contributors including non-dietary, and genetics. And bad luck.

Hmm.. this is actually not true.

Type 1 diabetes is caused by your immune system attacking the insulin producing cells of your pancreases and has nothing to do with lifestyle.

Type 2 diabetes is related to being overweight but not directly caused by sugar. Sugar/carbs are easier to overeat so make it easier to pack on the pounds but if you eat a lot of sugar without being overweight you are less likely to get type 2 diabetes.

OP here. The documentary alleged that it is fat that destroys your pancreas, hence diabetes. That eating a lot of sugar will make you overweight, but that butter in let's say a cookies is the culprit.

Just because a documentary throws it out there doesn't mean it's true.

Sure. But each different documentary uses studies to reinforce their claim. This one even Harvard and many other studies. Others cite studies that support their claims. So, what is a regular person to think?

It’s always a good idea to seek out alternative views rather than relying on one source. Here are a couple of other takes on the documentary.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16018658/what-the-health-documentary-review-vegan-diet
https://time.com/4897133/vegan-netflix-what-the-health/

Thanks so much! You are right, and the reviews are right! What terrible "documentary!"

OP, no single source is perfect, but a documentary will always have a preferred perspective and agenda. It's the way (and why) they are made.

If you want to know the best resources for a "regular person," try the relevant major professional organization fact sheets -- e.g., for cardiology, look at information from the American Heart Association and/or the American College of Cardiology, such as the "2019 ACC/AHA Guideline on the Primary Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease" at https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/ten-points-to-remember/2019/03/07/16/00/2019-acc-aha-guideline-on-primary-prevention-gl-prevention :

Nutrition

Dietary patterns associated with CVD mortality include—sugar, low-calorie sweeteners, high-carbohydrate diets, low-carbohydrate diets, refined grains, trans fat, saturated fat, sodium, red meat, and processed red meat (such as bacon, salami, ham, hot dogs, and sausage). All adults should consume a healthy plant-based or Mediterranean-like diet high in vegetables, fruits, nuts, whole grains, lean vegetable or animal protein (preferably fish), and vegetable fiber, which has been shown to lower the risk of all-cause mortality compared to control or standard diet. Longstanding dietary patterns that focus on low intake of carbohydrates and a high intake of animal fat and protein as well as high carbohydrate diets are associated with increased cardiac and noncardiac mortality. The increased availability of affordable, palatable, and high-calorie foods along with decreased physical demands of many jobs have fueled the epidemic of obesity and the consequent increases in hypertension and T2DM.

They are not perfect, but they do have to reflect a consensus opinion across a large number of highly trained specialists in the area.

Also, be careful that you are accessing what you think you are accessing. Names can be deceiving. The American Academy of Pediatrics is reliable, but the American College of Pediatricians is a wingnut fringe group.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sugar doesn't cause diabetes. Excess weight does. You can eat all the sugar/carbs you want, so long as you use it for energy (burn it off) and it doesn't get stored as fat. If you are gaining weight, you are not burning off what you eating and are eating too much. That puts you at highest risk for health problems.

Meat IS a huge contributor to cancer. Especially red meat. Red meat, charred meats, smoked meats, processed meats have all been linked to several GI cancers.

To optimize health the most important things are:

1) Don't overeat and keep your weight in heathy/normal range
2) Eat a lot of vegetables and fruit
3) Eat whole grains
4) Eat beans and legumes and nuts
5) Eat fish twice per week
6) limit alcohol
7) limit processed foods, store bought garbage
8) limit red meat

But yes, there is a huge role genetics play into whether you will develop cancer regardless of diet and lifestyle. You can only do so much

My skinny south Asian in-laws, like many skinny Asians, have type 2 diabetes after a lifetime of eating exactly what you suggest (especially fish, no alcohol at all).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sugar doesn't cause diabetes. Excess weight does. You can eat all the sugar/carbs you want, so long as you use it for energy (burn it off) and it doesn't get stored as fat. If you are gaining weight, you are not burning off what you eating and are eating too much. That puts you at highest risk for health problems.

Meat IS a huge contributor to cancer. Especially red meat. Red meat, charred meats, smoked meats, processed meats have all been linked to several GI cancers.

To optimize health the most important things are:

1) Don't overeat and keep your weight in heathy/normal range
2) Eat a lot of vegetables and fruit
3) Eat whole grains
4) Eat beans and legumes and nuts
5) Eat fish twice per week
6) limit alcohol
7) limit processed foods, store bought garbage
8) limit red meat

But yes, there is a huge role genetics play into whether you will develop cancer regardless of diet and lifestyle. You can only do so much

OP here. Thanks for posting all this! So, What the Health says the same thing, pretty much. Something is in the ground and animals eat it. And no organic or pasture-raised helps at all.
But, how come veggies grow from the same ground, but are better?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its really important to also consider human history as a way to ask "does this theory make sense?"

Humans have consumed meat for millennia, as well as grains, vegetables and fruit. I don't believe that eating meat can possibly have such a negative impact on overall human health, given this.

But you know what has not been consumed for millennia? Processed food and the high high quantity of sugar we now eat. These things have massively knocked our systems for a loop.

Well, the documentary really put me off, without me doing any google research, when they said, toxins are in the ground that all animals eat and that is why we are being poisoned by meat. Yet, veggies and grains are ok? Doesn't that grow in the same ground? Bcc even organic and pasture-raised animals were deemed toxic. Technically if they followed their own logic, everything would be bad to eat except lab-raised plants? But, then lab-raised meat should be ok too?! There was a point at which they basically made farm-raised fish slightly healthier than wild-caught! But, fish is bad too, even though it doesn't eat plants from polluted soil?
That is why I thought it will be maybe a topic to post here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its really important to also consider human history as a way to ask "does this theory make sense?"

Humans have consumed meat for millennia, as well as grains, vegetables and fruit. I don't believe that eating meat can possibly have such a negative impact on overall human health, given this.

But you know what has not been consumed for millennia? Processed food and the high high quantity of sugar we now eat. These things have massively knocked our systems for a loop.

I agree to an extent. Humans have eaten meat for millennia but not in the quantities we do now. Lots of things have changed, fruit has been bred to be sweeter, thus more sugar. IMHO, fruit is much better than candy and ice cream, but that doesn't mean you can eat as much as you want. I also think that juice is as bad as soda.

My husband developed late adult onset type 1 diabetes in his late 40s, he's now 60. He manages it very well and uses an insulin pump. It's very interesting what makes his sugar levels spike and how long the spike sustains. Cornstarch is the worst followed by pasta and bread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its really important to also consider human history as a way to ask "does this theory make sense?"

Humans have consumed meat for millennia, as well as grains, vegetables and fruit. I don't believe that eating meat can possibly have such a negative impact on overall human health, given this.

But you know what has not been consumed for millennia? Processed food and the high high quantity of sugar we now eat. These things have massively knocked our systems for a loop.

Well, the documentary really put me off, without me doing any google research, when they said, toxins are in the ground that all animals eat and that is why we are being poisoned by meat. Yet, veggies and grains are ok? Doesn't that grow in the same ground? Bcc even organic and pasture-raised animals were deemed toxic. Technically if they followed their own logic, everything would be bad to eat except lab-raised plants? But, then lab-raised meat should be ok too?! There was a point at which they basically made farm-raised fish slightly healthier than wild-caught! But, fish is bad too, even though it doesn't eat plants from polluted soil?
That is why I thought it will be maybe a topic to post here.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its really important to also consider human history as a way to ask "does this theory make sense?"

Humans have consumed meat for millennia, as well as grains, vegetables and fruit. I don't believe that eating meat can possibly have such a negative impact on overall human health, given this.

But you know what has not been consumed for millennia? Processed food and the high high quantity of sugar we now eat. These things have massively knocked our systems for a loop.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well for diabetes, it’s sugar, no question. For cancer - probably many contributors including non-dietary, and genetics. And bad luck.

Hmm.. this is actually not true.

Type 1 diabetes is caused by your immune system attacking the insulin producing cells of your pancreases and has nothing to do with lifestyle.

Type 2 diabetes is related to being overweight but not directly caused by sugar. Sugar/carbs are easier to overeat so make it easier to pack on the pounds but if you eat a lot of sugar without being overweight you are less likely to get type 2 diabetes.

OP here. The documentary alleged that it is fat that destroys your pancreas, hence diabetes. That eating a lot of sugar will make you overweight, but that butter in let's say a cookies is the culprit.

Just because a documentary throws it out there doesn't mean it's true.

Sure. But each different documentary uses studies to reinforce their claim. This one even Harvard and many other studies. Others cite studies that support their claims. So, what is a regular person to think?

It’s always a good idea to seek out alternative views rather than relying on one source. Here are a couple of other takes on the documentary.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16018658/what-the-health-documentary-review-vegan-diet
https://time.com/4897133/vegan-netflix-what-the-health/

Thanks so much! You are right, and the reviews are right! What terrible "documentary!"

Nutrition

Dietary patterns associated with CVD mortality include—sugar, low-calorie sweeteners, high-carbohydrate diets, low-carbohydrate diets, refined grains, trans fat, saturated fat, sodium, red meat, and processed red meat (such as bacon, salami, ham, hot dogs, and sausage). All adults should consume a healthy plant-based or Mediterranean-like diet high in vegetables, fruits, nuts, whole grains, lean vegetable or animal protein (preferably fish), and vegetable fiber, which has been shown to lower the risk of all-cause mortality compared to control or standard diet. Longstanding dietary patterns that focus on low intake of carbohydrates and a high intake of animal fat and protein as well as high carbohydrate diets are associated with increased cardiac and noncardiac mortality. The increased availability of affordable, palatable, and high-calorie foods along with decreased physical demands of many jobs have fueled the epidemic of obesity and the consequent increases in hypertension and T2DM.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think its really important to also consider human history as a way to ask "does this theory make sense?"

Humans have consumed meat for millennia, as well as grains, vegetables and fruit. I don't believe that eating meat can possibly have such a negative impact on overall human health, given this.

But you know what has not been consumed for millennia? Processed food and the high high quantity of sugar we now eat. These things have massively knocked our systems for a loop.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sugar doesn't cause diabetes. Excess weight does. You can eat all the sugar/carbs you want, so long as you use it for energy (burn it off) and it doesn't get stored as fat. If you are gaining weight, you are not burning off what you eating and are eating too much. That puts you at highest risk for health problems.

Meat IS a huge contributor to cancer. Especially red meat. Red meat, charred meats, smoked meats, processed meats have all been linked to several GI cancers.

To optimize health the most important things are:

1) Don't overeat and keep your weight in heathy/normal range
2) Eat a lot of vegetables and fruit
3) Eat whole grains
4) Eat beans and legumes and nuts
5) Eat fish twice per week
6) limit alcohol
7) limit processed foods, store bought garbage
8) limit red meat

But yes, there is a huge role genetics play into whether you will develop cancer regardless of diet and lifestyle. You can only do so much

My skinny south Asian in-laws, like many skinny Asians, have type 2 diabetes after a lifetime of eating exactly what you suggest (especially fish, no alcohol at all).

My DH is super skinny and eats rubbish all the time. 6 Dr peppers per day, not a diet one either! McD crap every day when here, he works overseas a lot. Crap restaurant food. He eats healthily all that I cook though.
I've been telling him that all that sugar will cause him diabetes. Was I wrong?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well for diabetes, it’s sugar, no question. For cancer - probably many contributors including non-dietary, and genetics. And bad luck.

Hmm.. this is actually not true.

Type 1 diabetes is caused by your immune system attacking the insulin producing cells of your pancreases and has nothing to do with lifestyle.

Type 2 diabetes is related to being overweight but not directly caused by sugar. Sugar/carbs are easier to overeat so make it easier to pack on the pounds but if you eat a lot of sugar without being overweight you are less likely to get type 2 diabetes.

OP here. The documentary alleged that it is fat that destroys your pancreas, hence diabetes. That eating a lot of sugar will make you overweight, but that butter in let's say a cookies is the culprit.

Just because a documentary throws it out there doesn't mean it's true.

Sure. But each different documentary uses studies to reinforce their claim. This one even Harvard and many other studies. Others cite studies that support their claims. So, what is a regular person to think?

It’s always a good idea to seek out alternative views rather than relying on one source. Here are a couple of other takes on the documentary.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16018658/what-the-health-documentary-review-vegan-diet
https://time.com/4897133/vegan-netflix-what-the-health/