Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the grand scheme of possible character flaws, this is a great one to have. You want to be helpful, sometimes to the point of not encouraging the helpee to be empowered to come up with their own solutions. But you’re wanting to help your friends and family, and have a lot of empathy, and that’s fantastic.

Since the urge to help is so strong, what about working with a counselor on what language and discourse to use to help others in an empowering way? Trying to turn that off will make you feel like you’re not being you and it’s a great trait to have. The language should just change, right? So that you’re helping them come up with their own solutions rather than you coming up with them for them? A therapist does this all the time and can help guide you in how to interact with others in crisis or need in a strengthening way.

Not OP, but what kind of counselor helps with this? I also need this help.

This is OP. So in my search for an answer I found a book called "How to Break Free of the Drama Triangle" and to say it's been enlightening would be a gross understatement. It has shed so much light on so many different problem dynamics that I have come across with certain people in my life - dynamics that have really perplexed me and caused much stress. I highly recommend!

Can you share some of the highlights?

It basically explains how unresolved trauma and dysfunctional family of origin relationships and a history of not being able to express your needs to others directly, drives people into the "drama triangle" of persecutor-rescuer-victim and you keep swapping roles, with the ultimate goal of becoming the victim.

The more swapping of roles that occur, the higher the drama and chaos and confusion. So for instance, the rescuer can then become the persecuted by the victim for failing to help, then the rescuer becomes the victim. Which leads to resentment and anger, and the cycle continues.

And essentially the desire to become the victim comes from unmet needs or being shamed for expressing needs as a child. So instead of expressing needs directly, the person learns to use manipulation, obligation, or playing the helpless victim try to get their needs met.

I feel like advanced psychology should be taught beginning in 5th grade. Not just the intro. But a few layers deeper to get to why most families are usually operating in some level of dysfunction, and how to improve the emotional maturity and mental resiliency of growing children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the grand scheme of possible character flaws, this is a great one to have. You want to be helpful, sometimes to the point of not encouraging the helpee to be empowered to come up with their own solutions. But you’re wanting to help your friends and family, and have a lot of empathy, and that’s fantastic.

Since the urge to help is so strong, what about working with a counselor on what language and discourse to use to help others in an empowering way? Trying to turn that off will make you feel like you’re not being you and it’s a great trait to have. The language should just change, right? So that you’re helping them come up with their own solutions rather than you coming up with them for them? A therapist does this all the time and can help guide you in how to interact with others in crisis or need in a strengthening way.

Not OP, but what kind of counselor helps with this? I also need this help.

This is OP. So in my search for an answer I found a book called "How to Break Free of the Drama Triangle" and to say it's been enlightening would be a gross understatement. It has shed so much light on so many different problem dynamics that I have come across with certain people in my life - dynamics that have really perplexed me and caused much stress. I highly recommend!

Can you share some of the highlights?

It basically explains how unresolved trauma and dysfunctional family of origin relationships and a history of not being able to express your needs to others directly, drives people into the "drama triangle" of persecutor-rescuer-victim and you keep swapping roles, with the ultimate goal of becoming the victim.

The more swapping of roles that occur, the higher the drama and chaos and confusion. So for instance, the rescuer can then become the persecuted by the victim for failing to help, then the rescuer becomes the victim. Which leads to resentment and anger, and the cycle continues.

And essentially the desire to become the victim comes from unmet needs or being shamed for expressing needs as a child. So instead of expressing needs directly, the person learns to use manipulation, obligation, or playing the helpless victim try to get their needs met.

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what you are getting from this dynamic. You think it’s about her, but it’s really about you. If this dynamic didn’t work for you on some level, it wouldn’t keep happening.

Stop focusing on her and start focusing on you.

+1

I have met a lot of rescuers in my life and one thing they have in common is that they really struggle with other people's feelings. OP needs to figure out why she is triggered to start rescuing when her friend becomes emotional or upset. It's not to feel like you have to "save" another adult when they are going through a hard time. In a healthy, equal relationship, you will trust your friend to handle their own problems, and simply be a listening ear when necessary.

You need to figure out what you are getting from this dynamic. You think it’s about her, but it’s really about you. If this dynamic didn’t work for you on some level, it wouldn’t keep happening.

Stop focusing on her and start focusing on you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the grand scheme of possible character flaws, this is a great one to have. You want to be helpful, sometimes to the point of not encouraging the helpee to be empowered to come up with their own solutions. But you’re wanting to help your friends and family, and have a lot of empathy, and that’s fantastic.

Since the urge to help is so strong, what about working with a counselor on what language and discourse to use to help others in an empowering way? Trying to turn that off will make you feel like you’re not being you and it’s a great trait to have. The language should just change, right? So that you’re helping them come up with their own solutions rather than you coming up with them for them? A therapist does this all the time and can help guide you in how to interact with others in crisis or need in a strengthening way.

Not OP, but what kind of counselor helps with this? I also need this help.

This is OP. So in my search for an answer I found a book called "How to Break Free of the Drama Triangle" and to say it's been enlightening would be a gross understatement. It has shed so much light on so many different problem dynamics that I have come across with certain people in my life - dynamics that have really perplexed me and caused much stress. I highly recommend!

Can you share some of the highlights?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the grand scheme of possible character flaws, this is a great one to have. You want to be helpful, sometimes to the point of not encouraging the helpee to be empowered to come up with their own solutions. But you’re wanting to help your friends and family, and have a lot of empathy, and that’s fantastic.

Since the urge to help is so strong, what about working with a counselor on what language and discourse to use to help others in an empowering way? Trying to turn that off will make you feel like you’re not being you and it’s a great trait to have. The language should just change, right? So that you’re helping them come up with their own solutions rather than you coming up with them for them? A therapist does this all the time and can help guide you in how to interact with others in crisis or need in a strengthening way.

Not OP, but what kind of counselor helps with this? I also need this help.

This is OP. So in my search for an answer I found a book called "How to Break Free of the Drama Triangle" and to say it's been enlightening would be a gross understatement. It has shed so much light on so many different problem dynamics that I have come across with certain people in my life - dynamics that have really perplexed me and caused much stress. I highly recommend!

Anonymous wrote:In the grand scheme of possible character flaws, this is a great one to have. You want to be helpful, sometimes to the point of not encouraging the helpee to be empowered to come up with their own solutions. But you’re wanting to help your friends and family, and have a lot of empathy, and that’s fantastic.

Since the urge to help is so strong, what about working with a counselor on what language and discourse to use to help others in an empowering way? Trying to turn that off will make you feel like you’re not being you and it’s a great trait to have. The language should just change, right? So that you’re helping them come up with their own solutions rather than you coming up with them for them? A therapist does this all the time and can help guide you in how to interact with others in crisis or need in a strengthening way.

This is not an empathetic behavior, and it is not a "great one to have."

Empathy is the effort to understand where someone is coming from, and a willingness to accept their perspective as at least one possible reality. Advice is not an act of empathy. I don't know where people get this idea. Maybe if you are very, very good at empathizing, and someone actively solicits your advice, then your advice will be made better by your empathy. But unsolicited advice is an act of judgment, which is the opposite of empathy. You cannot empathize with someone in the same moment that you are telling them "you should do this instead."

What you are talking about is sympathy, which is when you feel bad for someone else. Sympathy is an inherently distancing emotion.

Some people engage in sympathy-seeking behaviors. OP's friend might be doing that when she "talks like a little girl." Sympathy seeking behavior can be hard to resist -- if people act helpless or aggrieved and keep asking you for help, it can be hard not to fall into a rescuer role.

However, some people offer sympathy when someone is actually asking for empathy. If someone says, "I just need someone to listen" or "I just feel alone in this", that's not sympathy seeking -- they are asking for empathy. If instead, you offer sympathy in the form of unsolicited advice or mothering behaviors, it can create this rescuer-victim dynamic even if the other person never viewed themselves as a victim or asked for rescuing.

It's hard to know how the dynamic is working here, but what OP needs to do is focus on her own behavior, recognize how she might be triggered by her friend, and set better boundaries. The advice should stop immediately, and OP should practice actual empathetic responses like "That sounds so hard" or "I'm sorry you are going through this."

So many bad interpersonal dynamics could be addressed by a better understanding of empathy and sympathy and how to express them.

Anonymous wrote:In the grand scheme of possible character flaws, this is a great one to have. You want to be helpful, sometimes to the point of not encouraging the helpee to be empowered to come up with their own solutions. But you’re wanting to help your friends and family, and have a lot of empathy, and that’s fantastic.

Since the urge to help is so strong, what about working with a counselor on what language and discourse to use to help others in an empowering way? Trying to turn that off will make you feel like you’re not being you and it’s a great trait to have. The language should just change, right? So that you’re helping them come up with their own solutions rather than you coming up with them for them? A therapist does this all the time and can help guide you in how to interact with others in crisis or need in a strengthening way.

Not OP, but what kind of counselor helps with this? I also need this help.

Anonymous wrote:You are unwittingly acting as her unpaid therapist.

It’s a sign of mental illness if she “starts talking like a little girl.”

Get her to into therapy. Then you can begin to (hopefully) have a healthy, adult relationship with her.

No. The whole problem with this dynamic is that OP is trying to substitute her own judgement for her friend's. Instead of "getting her into therapy" (like she's a small child? how is this OP's job?), OP needs to learn proper boundaries. She needs to stop thinking of this other woman as her responsibility, and stop viewing herself as an authority on her friend's life and choices. She probably need to learn to let things go when she thinks her friend is making a mistake, too. All of this is stuff OP needs to work on. We don't really know anything about this other woman, other than that she sometimes has a high or childlike voice.

I have been on the receiving end of this dynamic, and the way I have resolved it is by distancing myself from my "rescuers" and in many cases choosing to simply end the friendship. There have been times when I participated in creating the dynamic (it once happened with a mentor and I definitely gave that person way too much power in my life), but in several situations I actively fought against it but could not convince my friend to simply let me be. Like OP's friend, my voice tends to go high when I'm emotional, so I could see someone saying I was "talking like a little girl" when expressing sadness or frustration. But I'm not a little girl. I'm an adult and I've never tried to outsource my adult responsibilities to anyone, much less a friend. However, people who have rescuer tendencies seem to be drawn to me. I have had to learn to spot this dynamic early on in a relationship and to set firm boundaries as early as I can, before someone falls into the habit of giving me advice and treating me like a child.

This is an OP issue. Her friend might have her own stuff to work through, or not. But it is within OP's power to stop this dynamic, and it's not via forcing her friend to go to therapy in order to facilitate that relationship.

You are unwittingly acting as her unpaid therapist.

It’s a sign of mental illness if she “starts talking like a little girl.”

Get her to into therapy. Then you can begin to (hopefully) have a healthy, adult relationship with her.