Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 16:03     Subject: They want to go Essay optional as well
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It makes more sense to get rid of essays when so many rich people hire help for their kids than it does to get rid of a standardized test the kid has to take alone. Especially since there are so many free test prep resources.


Exactly. The essays are part of the soft, subjective, easily-tampered application items that should disappear.

Standardizes tests MUST be reinstated.



By whom? Doesn't each individual college make this decision on the data they think will help them build the class they want?

Why do you get to dictate what they use?


Don't be obtuse, kid. College admissions offices realized this year what a mess the supposedly "equitable" push for optional testing actually creates for selecting applicants - they can't tell who is actually above the pack or not. Collectively, the majority will gradually return to requiring standardized testing, and we've been hearing noises in that direction for months now.

You don't need to believe me. You just need to wait and see.



In addition to your rude ad hominem (I'm 55), you didn't answer my question at all.

Why do you get to say they "must"?

All your other points are irrelevant to me, nor do I care what noises you hear. IMHO colleges can choose to use them or not as they see fit.
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 15:52     Subject: They want to go Essay optional as well
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If there are no tests and no essays and grades are fairly subjective...then it's a lottery and what happens to the kids who lottery into MIT but don't make it? $50k/year mistake? This is not good.


Except the schools always adapt to the student body because they can't survive if everyone fails out.

ie, they may have to dumb it down
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 15:50     Subject: They want to go Essay optional as well
Sounds like the only way you are going to make people happy is a quota system based on tax returns. Only accept a set percentage from each tax bracket.

But even then, someone would figure out a way to game the system.

And all the colleges would go bankrupt

And prestige wouldn’t mean anything anymore
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 15:36     Subject: They want to go Essay optional as well
I think it is better to leave the relatively objective measures in but affirmatively provide SES level adjustments. Rather than these being viewed as dumbing down the system recognize that they are offsetting advantages that high SES families have to give to their children and combine these adjustments with additional supports for the students in school.
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 15:33     Subject: They want to go Essay optional as well
Anonymous wrote:The essay is the worst part. There is no way to tell who wrote it, who revised it, or how much the kid paid for either process. There is an entire industry based around 'helping' kids write these essays. They are most reflective of how much parents had to spend and how talented the advisor is


That is why applicants should sign an attestation on this. And paid prep for testing.
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 15:31     Subject: They want to go Essay optional as well
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It makes more sense to get rid of essays when so many rich people hire help for their kids than it does to get rid of a standardized test the kid has to take alone. Especially since there are so many free test prep resources.


Exactly. The essays are part of the soft, subjective, easily-tampered application items that should disappear.

Standardizes tests MUST be reinstated.



By whom? Doesn't each individual college make this decision on the data they think will help them build the class they want?

Why do you get to dictate what they use?


Don't be obtuse, kid. College admissions offices realized this year what a mess the supposedly "equitable" push for optional testing actually creates for selecting applicants - they can't tell who is actually above the pack or not. Collectively, the majority will gradually return to requiring standardized testing, and we've been hearing noises in that direction for months now.

You don't need to believe me. You just need to wait and see.

Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 15:26     Subject: They want to go Essay optional as well
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It makes more sense to get rid of essays when so many rich people hire help for their kids than it does to get rid of a standardized test the kid has to take alone. Especially since there are so many free test prep resources.


Exactly. The essays are part of the soft, subjective, easily-tampered application items that should disappear.

Standardizes tests MUST be reinstated.



By whom? Doesn't each individual college make this decision on the data they think will help them build the class they want?

Why do you get to dictate what they use?
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 15:22     Subject: They want to go Essay optional as well
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It makes more sense to get rid of essays when so many rich people hire help for their kids than it does to get rid of a standardized test the kid has to take alone. Especially since there are so many free test prep resources.


Exactly. The essays are part of the soft, subjective, easily-tampered application items that should disappear.

Standardizes tests MUST be reinstated.


But the kids with the means will always get test prep and their scores will always be better.

Face it, the kids with means will always have the advantage in college applications. No matter what they come up with, kids with means will have the advantage.
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 14:57     Subject: They want to go Essay optional as well
Anonymous wrote:It makes more sense to get rid of essays when so many rich people hire help for their kids than it does to get rid of a standardized test the kid has to take alone. Especially since there are so many free test prep resources.


Exactly. The essays are part of the soft, subjective, easily-tampered application items that should disappear.

Standardizes tests MUST be reinstated.

Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 14:56     Subject: Re:They want to go Essay optional as well
Anonymous wrote:Let's be realistic. The essay is just one small factor in the whole process. I agree that admissions folks know whether a kid's essay is authentic. I think they should be considered as one small piece of the puzzle, along with grades, test scores, ECs, and recommendations.


grades are overinflated
test scores are being eliminated

so that leaves it to ECs and recommendations.

#winning
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 14:20     Subject: Re:They want to go Essay optional as well
Let's be realistic. The essay is just one small factor in the whole process. I agree that admissions folks know whether a kid's essay is authentic. I think they should be considered as one small piece of the puzzle, along with grades, test scores, ECs, and recommendations.
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 14:16     Subject: Re:They want to go Essay optional as well
Anonymous wrote:I see the objections to the importance of the essay, and I say that having had a kid whose essay (uncoached, written entirely by her with only a quick read from English teacher and me) is surely part of the reason she got in to a super competitive school. That said, I think that most components of the holistic admissions lens potentially favor kids of means. They key is how much they are used to understand "context" and how much they are used to add more shiny baubles to an otherwise strong application.


The admissions committees say it is part of the reason and that is exactly why it is a big target for investment by families with means.

But at the end of the day, a person can not fake their writing skills for ever and if they are real, they will be useful at whatever college the student ultimately attenda and in whatever field they pursue later.
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 13:58     Subject: Re:They want to go Essay optional as well
I see the objections to the importance of the essay, and I say that having had a kid whose essay (uncoached, written entirely by her with only a quick read from English teacher and me) is surely part of the reason she got in to a super competitive school. That said, I think that most components of the holistic admissions lens potentially favor kids of means. They key is how much they are used to understand "context" and how much they are used to add more shiny baubles to an otherwise strong application.
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 13:45     Subject: They want to go Essay optional as well
It can, is and will be faked. These essays are read by overworked admissions staff, not rocket scientists.
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2021 13:30     Subject: They want to go Essay optional as well
Anonymous wrote:The essay is the worst part. There is no way to tell who wrote it, who revised it, or how much the kid paid for either process. There is an entire industry based around 'helping' kids write these essays. They are most reflective of how much parents had to spend and how talented the advisor is


In fairness, it is easier to go through life if one is not cheating. But as to identifying genuine essays, it's actually not that hard. Not at all. Because you can hear the voice of the student, which is not something that can be coached.